A model for beta development of a game...

[mazex]

Hi!

This forum is filled with simulator fans so I guess that some of you do racing simulators too. In the serious racing simulator genre there is a lot of competition and the fans are as rabid as the FSX vs XPlane etc ;)

There is a new racing simulator coming up called Project C.A.R.S (rather silly name but still). They have a model where the game that is right now in Alpha state is accessible if you "join the team" for a fee that you decide. There is a Junior level for 10 Euro or the "Team member" level for 25 Euro that is the most common. Then you get weekly builds of the game - as it is right now. The developers call this a "community delevoped game" and the developers are EXTREMELY active in their forum that is only accessible to "team members". I joined yesterday and posted my fist post last night. Already the lead developer has put a "like" on the proposal and the forum just bursts with positive energy... As soon as something is done at a basic level it gets into the weekly build and you can try it at your own risk, bugs and all...

Something so think about? (and yes - it's DirectX 11 ;))

An image from the game... Suck on that detail ;)
http://www.wmdportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/5.jpg

A trailer:
http://youtu.be/4NSjfaSw4_M?hd=1


Their site:

http://www.wmdportal.com/projects/cars/

[machoo]

I have CARS but i also subscribe to iRacing which is far superior in every way. I've been a paid member of iRacing for 3 years.

[Dr str@nglove]

is there any multiplayer support?

[NLS61]

Where on their site( or how) can you join I cant seem to find that.

Ok found it

[mazex]

I have CARS but i also subscribe to iRacing which is far superior in every way. I've been a paid member of iRacing for 3 years.

I agree that iRacing is a great racing simulator... The problem I have with it is that there are too many ovals in it ;) And I'm not that much of a fan of their subscription payment model...

I do like Live for Speed too, only a bit boring that the development has stalled the latest years... And then rFactor 2 coming up that I haven't tried yet...

The interesting thing about pCars in relation to CloD is the development model... It sure would fit CloD too - as it's still in alpha state too ;)

[Buzpilot]

I have CARS but i also subscribe to iRacing which is far superior in every way. I've been a paid member of iRacing for 3 years.

Thx, got iracing too, so this will save me from installing CARS, look too much like Moon physics to me.

Edit; Me on sunday driver practise :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtcV6tOU-Ho&feature=g-upl&context=G21442feAUAAAAAAAAAA

[mazex]

Thx, got iracing too, so this will save me from installing CARS, look too much like Moon physics to me.

Edit; Me on sunday driver practise :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtcV6tOU-Ho&feature=g-upl&context=G21442feAUAAAAAAAAAA

Mmm, but the thing about Project Cars is that it's still just in alpha and it gets better every weekly build... So, I guess it will be able to give iRacing quite a match when it gets released. And the entry ticket of 10 Euro for junior is what you pay for iRacing every month ;)

And in no way pCars is an arcade game... It's done by the same team that did Need for Speed Shift (which is the only good thing that happened to that franchise since Porsche 2000 ;)). This is their attempt at taking the Shift code which has a great graphics engine and do a simulator of it instead. In the graphics department they sure are in the front row, and when they get all the physics in place I guess it will be a great game - especially with the fresh approach to involving the community into how the game will evolve.

Guess I will have to play some iRacing now to see how good it is right now :)

[Rjel]

The video Buzpilot posted was incredibly smooth. I'll get raked over the coals for this, but my biggest issue with CoD and IL2 has always been the little micro stutters. No matter how much tweaking is done, they never seem to disappear completely. I know it's apples and oranges in comparison, but just once I would like a flight sim that seamlessly flows like that.

[Dr str@nglove]

I agree that iRacing is a great racing simulator... The problem I have with it is that there are too many ovals in it ;) And I'm not that much of a fan of their subscription payment model...

I do like Live for Speed too, only a bit boring that the development has stalled the latest years... And then rFactor 2 coming up that I haven't tried yet...

The interesting thing about pCars in relation to CloD is the development model... It sure would fit CloD too - as it's still in alpha state too ;)

rfactor 2 beta is out now you should try it

[mazex]

rfactor 2 beta is out now you should try it

Mmm, I sure will in some time - BuzPilot dragged me into iRacing again so now I've spent $50 thanks to him on all the darn micro payments ;)

iRacing really is great regarding the handling, but after trying out Watkins Glen that I've been running all afternoon in Project Cars it looks so old visually compared to the awesome graphics of pCars ;) Running that -68 Lotus in pCars at Watkins Glen is so much fun, and even though there is so much good about the handling in iRacing I can't say that I'm disappointed with pCars... OK, I haven't driven any open wheelers (especially not from 68) so I don't know what to compare to - but I have raced some pretty bad modern super sport cars on track and pCars does not feel that bad to me!

In iRacing there is some stuff I don't like regarding when you are starting to loose the back of the car and let go of the throttle fast and that makes it recover (which in reality does the opposite).That was in the Star Mazda so lets not pull too much into that statement, I have too little milage in the game now to make too much of a statement regarding that... I really like them both and will probably buy rFactor 2 later tonight! :) Pretty tired of that old ISI rFactor engine that's in all other racing games these days... The thing about pCars is that the graphics engine really is a big step forward against the old Dx9 stuff in the others. But sure - a racing game is all about physics so they have a bit of work left there to beat iRacing...

[Revvin]

For me iRacing is still the best handling racing sim out there but pCars is an exciting project that I joined the first week they opened up membership. From then to now the game has taken huge leaps forward in terms of the handling and UI and its still only at alpha stage. I have rFactor 2 also but thats a big disappointment, it doesn't look like a 2012 game, it looks more like rFactor with hi-res textures but its still beta so there is time for improvement though I don't see it even touching pCars graphically or iRacing for that matter. Assetto Corsa loook interesting, its the follow up to netKar Pro so I'm very cautiouis as support was non-existent when that was released and it never lived up to its potential but Assetto Corsa is going to be moddable like rFactor and its based on a DX11 engine so hopefully they can support their product this time. Beyond that there's Simbin's GTR3 to look forward to also.

[mazex]

Did a small comparison of Project CARS and iRacing right now, doing a crappy lap at Watkins Glen. It feels like there are quite many years between them graphics wise, and the behavior of that Lotus in CARS does not disappoint me at least... And the feeling of speed and motion is so much better in CARS (in my opinion!), and CARS is just an alpha, while iRacing is version 2...

First in the Lotus 68 in pCars (Bloody ugly first corner, and many other missed corners. That old Lotus is a joy to drive but as I've only played the game for a day I can't handle it ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz9H6YY4GK8&hd=1

Then in the Star Mazda in iRacing (a bit cleaner lap but lots of misses too ;)):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jgLmIOx-Lk&hd=1

And bear with my driving, have only played both games for a day, even though i played iRacing way back ;)

[Buzpilot]

Mmm, I sure will in some time - BuzPilot dragged me into iRacing again so now I've spent $50 thanks to him on all the darn micro payments

iRacing really is great regarding the handling, but after trying out Watkins Glen that I've been running all afternoon in Project Cars it looks so old visually compared to the awesome graphics of pCars Running that -68 Lotus in pCars at Watkins Glen is so much fun, and even though there is so much good about the handling in iRacing I can't say that I'm disappointed with pCars... OK, I haven't driven any open wheelers (especially not from 6 so I don't know what to compare to - but I have raced some pretty bad modern super sport cars on track and pCars does not feel that bad to me!



Ok, now I spent euros to check CARS too :)
The handling in iRacing is superb, mostly because the tracks are all laserscanned, so you can feel every bump from the real track, if you have force feedback. Thrustmaster T500RS is really worth every penny.
I admit CARS looks better, but it stops there, at least for now, maybe a later update will bring it closer :-|
btw Lotus 49 is coming soon to iRacing, so it will get more fun there too .
But CARS is quite interesting compared to other racing sims out there, if iRacing costs too much for you.

[Scarecrow]

WOW the graphics in CARS looks amazing. Will the final payment method be subscription or one time?

What do you guys think of the Simbin sims in terms of realism, i'm a long time fan of GT Legends and always thought that Simbin were the leaders in the field but I see iracing recieves alot of praise.

[mazex]

Ok, now I spent euros to check CARS too :)
The handling in iRacing is superb, mostly because the tracks are all laserscanned, so you can feel every bump from the real track, if you have force feedback. Thrustmaster T500RS is really worth every penny.
I admit CARS looks better, but it stops there, at least for now, maybe a later update will bring it closer :-|
btw Lotus 49 is coming soon to iRacing, so it will get more fun there too .
But CARS is quite interesting compared to other racing sims out there, if iRacing costs too much for you.

He he, this discussion has pulled cash in both directions then ;) I really don't have financial problems for amounts like this. It's just that I'm not that great a fan of the micro payment model in general. I always get sucked in a buys it all and then the final game costs like $300 which comparatively is a lot for a game ;) I fully agree that force feedback is a must, both in flight simulators and racing simulators. I have a Logitech G27 that I'm quite content with (and an old Logitech Momo in reserve). I have to agree that the Thrustmaster T500RS looks awesome though!

I will be great when the Lotus 49 comes to iRacing as that is such a iconic car. And then we can do a real comparison! Do you know when?

[mazex]

WOW the graphics in CARS looks amazing. Will the final payment method be subscription or one time?

What do you guys think of the Simbin sims in terms of realism, i'm a long time fan of GT Legends and always thought that Simbin were the leaders in the field but I see iracing recieves alot of praise.

I think that they are going for the "shrink wrapped $49" approach for Project CARS - but they where thinking about "free game" and micro payments at first. They did a poll in the forum and said they where taking the resounding "no thanks" seriously... But maybe some "online racing license" for 10-15 a year like rForce 2 are talking about? Don't know...

[mazex]

The handling in iRacing is superb, mostly because the tracks are all laserscanned, so you can feel every bump from the real track, if you have force feedback.

By the way, regarding laser scanning - pCars recently announced (december 2011) in the pCars forums that they had secured a deal with Motorsport Vision:

"We have just signed an agreement with Motorsport Vision (some of you in the UK should recognise the name), which signifies our first licensed tracks for C.A.R.S. That means we have now licensed Brands Hatch, Cadwell Park, Oulton Park and Snetterton. As some of the best tracks in the UK, this represents a very exciting first step for us. The plan for these tracks is that we will get them laser scanned so that we have absolute accuracy - this will capture every detail of the track down to the very last mm, so you can be assured that driving the tracks will be exactly like it is in real life.

More licensing news to come soon, so stay tuned!

Tracks
Brands Hatch
Cadwell Park
Oulton Park
Snetterton

Vehicles
GUMPERT apollo S
Ariel Atom
Ariel Atom Mugen
Ariel Atom V8
Palmer Jagar JP-LM
Caterham Classic
Caterham R500 Superlight
Caterham SP/300.R
BAC Mono"

[Buzpilot]

By the way, regarding laser scanning - pCars recently announced (december 2011) in the pCars forums that they had secured a deal with Motorsport Vision:

"We have just signed an agreement with Motorsport Vision (some of you in the UK should recognise the name), which signifies our first licensed tracks for C.A.R.S. That means we have now licensed Brands Hatch, Cadwell Park, Oulton Park and Snetterton. As some of the best tracks in the UK, this represents a very exciting first step for us. The plan for these tracks is that we will get them laser scanned so that we have absolute accuracy - this will capture every detail of the track down to the very last mm, so you can be assured that driving the tracks will be exactly like it is in real life.

More licensing news to come soon, so stay tuned!

Tracks
Brands Hatch
Cadwell Park
Oulton Park
Snetterton

Vehicles
GUMPERT apollo S
Ariel Atom
Ariel Atom Mugen
Ariel Atom V8
Palmer Jagar JP-LM
Caterham Classic
Caterham R500 Superlight
Caterham SP/300.R
BAC Mono"

Sounds very promising :)

Only know the 49 was scanned in December, hope it's out before summer, but they only said 2012.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/jimclark_lotus-cosworth_zandvoort_1967_3.jpg

[Ploughman]

Oh my god. Those sims are fantastic.

[Sven]

Oh my god. Those sims are fantastic.

Absolutely, this is totally relevant to my interest! European race cars!!!

Thanks for letting me know!

[machoo]

CARS has pretty bad wheel lag at the moment too. Once they get that sorted i'll check it out. I didnt realise they do weekly builds though , no information at all. I thought they'd send emails out. Maybe they do but it gets lost in all the junk.

[Buzpilot]

I just have to say CARS has really improved last months, look at this from the trailer competition.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDp1muxdkbY

[mazex]

Mmm, that 207 build released today is sweeeet! They have done some major fix to the colors so they don't look so "washed out" that I really like. And the BAC Mono really starts to feel great to drive now! The handling has improved a lot all over the line too the latest months! Getting more simulation feel every week :) It's so nice every friday when we have not gotten an update here to get a new build with tons of new stuff since the last week!

Just look at the release notes for this weeks build what has changed in just a WEEK - and that's the amount of new stuff they manage to push into the game every week!


Build 207 (4/5/12, Junior Member+)

NEW PROFILE REQUIRED
Known Issues: Artifact appears on the steering wheel of the Zonda when in a high speed crash.

Updated Fanatec CSW device ID and flipped operation of RPM lights to match latest version of the wheel
Added adjustment of aerodynamics influence while vehicle is in the air
Update various new profile defaults
Added new Bathurst HUD map
Stockcar_1990: All exterior mapped&textured, CPIT windscreen created, normals flipped,UV2 mapped, reflections texture added, user flag set .Some materials updates
Leonus 68 more robust driver back in(GT_classic) , changing gear animation added, roof camera position modified to show more of driver hands
Pagani Zonda R: pushrod positions matched to CAD. Fixes broken weight jacking effect of caster changes
Palmer JPLM: new suspension geometry for physics based on the model and photo references
Stockcar_1990: springs (front, rear) added
Pagani Zonda R: added custom liveries
BAC MONO: new liveries added
Added Zonda R
Stockcar 90: checks/fixes + prepared export with finished chassis textures
Pagani logo added to splash screen
News ticker updated with Pagani info
Derby: Balanced textures to not look so washed out
New Stockcar export
New Derby exports

Build 206 (3/5/12, Senior Manager)
First pass tweaks of the updated FFB to reasonably fit most vehicles until params are surfaced to the GUI
Per car FFB scaling reactivated
Add small amount of steering trail back to FFB, to weighten up understeer dropoff, and overall weight, a little
Re-add GUI tyre force modifier to per-car FFB formula. Also set defaults for this for all wheels to 100 (1.0, so no effect)
Fix for track select menu defaulting to right most layout instead of left
FFB: reduce base drag a little. More chance of oscillation but a better (more detailed) feel overall
Updated Fanatec CSW device ID and flipped operation of RPM lights to match latest version of the wheel
Asano LM11: Added missing AO to LODB and LODC, fixed missing damage to some parts; New export posted
BAC MONO: new liveries checked in
BAC MONO: new white rim
Rockford - Added Placeholder Kerb Textures for the oval
New AIW. Fixes cut track problems. Besos National
BAC MONO: added gold label color for livery#05
BAC MONO: new gold wheel
Harrison Pike speedway - Added tower building textures
Gumpert Apollo: camera positions and adjustment limits set. Fixed border issue on ambient shadow texture
Renamed oval to Harrison Pike Raceway
Harrison Pike Raceway logo updated
Besos - new textures checked in
New Asano LM11 export
New Besos exports
New Loire exports
New Harrison Pike Raceway export

Build 205 (2/5/12, Senior Manager)
Reinstate driver/wheel speed shake effects.
Integrated memory leak fix in Participant Gen
First pass tweaks of the updated FFB to reasonably fit most vehicles until params are surfaced to the GUI
Vehicles Materials Library. Fix for bodywork carbon matte materials
Added first Glencairn HUD map texture
Enabled all cockpit animations (only if present). Reduce steering shakes amount
Scaling direction vector to increase range of angles that are "front" versus "side", and also fixes shadow calculation to take account of LOCK_Z - fixes odd shadow intersection issue on slopes
Added new Summerton HUD map
Alpha tweak for HUD map
New track map for HUD
Kart01, Kart02: updated animations for modified pedals, better fitting dirver seat
Max Kart01, Kart02 files with updated vehicle meshes(pedals, seat) and animations
Eagle Creek - new textures Poles
Eagle Creek - new textures for fences and poles
Eagle Creek - New fences textures
Added Glencairn and Summerton co-ord's
BAC Mono: corrected default gear ratios for 4th, 5th and 6th to website spec
New Kart 1 and 2 exports

Build 204 (1/5/12, Manager+)
Caterham R500: fixed headlights AO, draworder issue, interior Ultra detail setting
Besos autograss files checked in
Besos texture colour correction
Leonus 68 initial gear to animation
Caterham r500 animation review + initial gear to animation
Gunmpert apollo : review changes 1PV and 3Pv driver animations
Helmetview - adapted changes from GT to Formula and KART. Disabled modern helmet geometry for CLASSIC drivers
Helmetview - top part moved lower slightly (to touch screen upper corners in 720p)
Fixed compile error in skinned bodywork carbon shader
Added new Rouen HUD map
Added Rouen Short HUD map
Fixed incorrect fresnel value on both skinned and non-skinned carbon bodywork shaders
Remove special cameras from player cycle list
UpdateTool : Used to clean out the profile during patching
Added carbon specific "paint properties" function to allow proper handling of clear-coat colour
Kart02 - Adjusted pedals, fuel tank and radiator hose to better fit driver
Kart01 - Adjusted seat size and shape, pedals and gearlever to better fit the driver
Added Rouen co-ord's into XML for HUD maps
Heusden - new texture
New Caterham export
New Besos exports
New Heusden

Build 203 (30/4/12, Senior Manager)
Remove code to mess with AI throttle on high speed ovals
Stockcar 90: animation pack2(steering 360, gear)
Ariel Atom,Mugen: added gear to animation
Asano x4: gear to, initial animation
Tweaked and tested California Highway Hud maps
Added California track map co-ord's into XML
Caterham R500 - Added damage deformation
BAC MONO: livery03.Initial check in
BAC MONO: new black + orange burnt stripe rim.Initial check in
BAC MONO: new black + orange burnt striped wheel.Initial check in
Besos racelines checked in
Belgian Forest - add new textures
MainMenu News Ticker updated, Version Number now present
Tweaked textures for Azure HUD maps
BAC Mono: Fixed HUD RPM range
Eagle Creek Speedway checked in
New Caterham R500 export
New Besos exports

Build 202 (27/4/12, Team Member+)
Update rolling start option accordingly when selected track forces rolling start
Fix AI throttle cap at 100%.
Adjusted helmet cam exposure to suit new art
Added the ability to submit flags with stats. In the future, the stats will be used to record information like whether or not driving aids were enabled during the record lap.
Removed obsolete API to submit records without sector times
In car view exhaust resonation layer enabled
New Azure Coast reverse HUD map added
Enabling helmet cam audio dampening
Bodywork_Carbon Max shaders. Changed specular settings for carbon to look the same as vehicles_basic
New Besos textures checked in
Bodywork_Carbon Max shaders. Specular settings for Matte option updated
Adjust LOD/CUL settings such that distant cars don't disappear so early
Belgian Forest - update trees for new terrain/new treewals and fixed few crowds intersections
Added the California HUD maps
New Palmer JPLM export
New Anhalt exports
New Bathurst export
New Belgian Forest export
New Besos exports
New Loire exports
New Sakitto exports

[Codex]

They've also added a co-driver

http://youtu.be/FHYja3xEYOc

@40sec ... a great way to check if they're fake or real?