Infographic of the Day: The Debt Superhighway

[baronWastelan]

Enjoy!

http://thevictoryreport.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/euro_1001.jpg

[nearmiss]

The European Union as we know it today will bust up. The charts above are unbelieveable and these kinds of irresponsibility cannot be sustained. It's just a matter of time until it breaks apart. It won't be a bad thing, except for the countries that will be excluded.

The PIIGS will go first, then...The PIIGS were broke (I mean broke) countries for generations before they were allowed into the EU. Their contributions to the EU have been marginal to negative since they were admitted.

I can understand the interest of the PIIGS countries to be apart of the EU. They have done more for their people financially by expanding debts (they never intend to repay). Those countries were in abject poverty prior to EU, and I'm sure their thinking is very different. So what if you go in debt and can never repay, at least you eat good and can live a better life for awhile. They'll never repay the debt. They'll make austerity measures and pander to the EU to continue to create more debt.

The greedy bankers think they will take the land and property of those countries to repay the debt... LOL Those are soverign nations, they'll just nationalize any bankers interersts. The sooner the EU kicks those countries out, the better for the EU.

The US doesn't have this option, because states that haven't made adequate contributions are grandfathered in since the formation of the US.

[Bewolf]

Nothing new, however, those numbers are not that much higher then ten years ago. Just the attitude towards it changed. Italy in 1999 had a much higher debt then today, for example. Nobody was bothered about it. And that is why this whole finacial hokus pokus is such a pervert affair, it's pure psychology, defined by speculators and rating agencies. Has nothing to do anymore with any kind of laid out rules or fixed margins. A simple rumor can decide about the solvency of entire countries now.

That said, I personally, and to be clear, I speak here for myself only, as a german I rather pay and try to make the EU work then drop back to the times of european national states with all that implies.

[Wolf_Rider]

yeah, but when unemployment is taken into account the EU is heading towards something really scary...


http://www.businessinsider.com/today-we-saw-this-chart-literally-make-peoples-jaws-drop-2012-1?nr_email_referer=1&utm_source=Triggermail&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Money%20Game%20Select&utm_campaign=MoneyGame%20Select%202012-02-02

[fruitbat]

how broken does something have to be, before people realise its broken......

[JG52Krupi]

how broken does something have to be, before people realise its broken......

Its hard to fix things that were broken from the start ;)

[Hood]

It's all the UK's fault for not signing up to the Euro and pledging to bail out other countries who don't have a clue (sarcasm alert).

*deep breath*

Actually, despite Sarkhozy (the man's a fool) I have a great deal of sympathy for our French and German friends. They have had to pump so much money into the EU and the Euro only to get shafted by the PIIGS.

What I find amazing is we're talking so much money - I really have to wonder where it all goes. I wonder if anyone has done an EU predicition of what would happen if the EU states simply gave no more money into the central pot.

The best thing I heard is that aid for Greece should be given to holidaymakers to spend in Greece. Then we'd get something for our money, the Greek peoples would get something and if they still didn't pay taxes, well we could go over and help ourselves to some more marbles.

:grin:

[retrojet]

Which is why I'm moving to Mars, after they send the global-warming bomb there... And I've won the lottery, to pay for my ticket to ride... :). Right, raaaid?

[nearmiss]

Which is why I'm moving to Mars, after they send the global-warming bomb there... And I've won the lottery, to pay for my ticket to ride... :). Right, raaaid?

You wish, it's not going to be that easy

[Wolf_Rider]

~ - I really have to wonder where it all goes. ~




It goes back to the same place it is all created from... thin air




here is an interesting, even if rather long, read =>

http://savecapitalism.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/the-end-of-civilization.pdf

[salmo]

Yes, the Eurozone's in trouble with some 3 trillion Euro of debt. That's paultry compared to the United States public debt of $15.4 trillion USD (about 11.7 trillion Euro). Governments have failed their citizens by spending more than they recieve over an extended period of time. This is unsustainable. Whatever your political persuasion, the only solution is to reign in Government spending & increase Government income.

[JG52Krupi]

here is an interesting, even if rather long, read =>

http://savecapitalism.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/the-end-of-civilization.pdf

I think I will not bother reading that... A look into the death of civilization from a website called save capitalism... Oh the irony!!!

We call ourselves a civilization but all we do is try and undermine and screw each other over for little bits of paper with ink on which is then is put into a bank and ceases to exist in the real world, instead it turns into a series of numbers in the digital world... The human race as a civilization can be summed up using one word... Pathetic.

[5./JG27.Farber]

I found a good video about this the other day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiJa9diJOMk

This is basically what happened, in America and is the reason for this. Except the piece of paper was called a "derivative". More derivatives have been sold than the money that exists in the banking system of the entire world....

[JG52Uther]

As the immortal Eddie from 'The Young Ones' once said:
'Look, you get born, you keep your head down, and then you die.'
The sooner people realise we're screwed, and its not really going to get much better in our lifetime at least, the better everyone will be, so you might as well come to terms with it. Living in debt was never going to end well, I'm surprised we lasted as long as we did.

[Wolf_Rider]

I think I will not bother reading that... A look into the death of civilization from a website called save capitalism... Oh the irony!!!



Its always a bit saddening to see anyone judging a book by its cover though... please read it before passing judgement?

[JG52Krupi]

I will read it ;) but the name of the website makes me want to puke, what has capitalism ever done for civilisation?

[bongodriver]

I will read it ;) but the name of the website makes me want to puke, what has capitalism ever done for civilisation?

capitalism, socialism, fascism any other ism........none of them have benefited civilization because they all suffer from one common problem........a greedy and power hungry elite that sit at the top.

[JG52Krupi]

capitalism, socialism, fascism any other ism........none of them have benefited civilization because they all suffer from one common problem........a greedy and power hungry elite that sit at the top.

So true :(, we are our own worst enemy.

[Wolf_Rider]

That's right; none of the "isms" have worked (in their own right)... and "capitalism" in itself (in concept) isn't a bad thing but the world is in the grip of a new "ism" at the moment, and that "ism" is Corporatism.
Think of corporatism as an extreme of capitalism as much as totalitarianism is an extreme of socialism (of which, socialism isn't a bad thing in itself either and socialism can't survive without capitalism, yet both need to work together not for their own right).

and yes, greed, power and the subsequent corruption buggers things up every time.

[Blackdog_kt]

I think the problem is that states are governed by middle-men that work for specific industrial/economic firms and not their citizens.

I live in Greece and nobody knows where the money we owe went or what we did with them, but we're called upon to pay them back. This year they instituted an extra tax for house owners that comes in your power bill. If you don't pay the tax they cut off your power. Essentially, they found a way to make people pay rent for their own property.

The ones who know where the money went are:

a) the ruling elite of the country (PMs/ministers/etc of years past)
b) a few middlemen that secure sales for their companies in various industries and
c) the politicians in other EU countries

They all pretend to know nothing, but what usually happens is this:
-Greece wants to buy some frigates or aircraft (let's take this example, as it's quite expensive and well covered in local media).

-The chiefs of staff will state requirements for a competition.

-The political leadership will ignore the military's specs and do its own thing. If the PM or defense minister is pro-US he'll back the Super Hornet, but the economy minister who is pro-German will promote the Typhoon, etc, etc

-They will buy whatever the political power struggle decides and then it's time for the bonus contract items like technology transfer.

-This is where the complicit nature of other EU partners kicks in: it's cheaper for EADS or KMW to pay money to a Greek official to select their system, than pay for technology/manufacturing transfer like it would be done in a normal contract.

So, in other words, Greece buys a lot of stuff it needs, at inflated prices that go in the pockets of local sharks, in order to keep the EU industry going, with money loaned from EU banks.

Just for fun, let's see some examples. Greece, a measly 10 million people, absorbs about 16% of Germany's defense exports and maintains armed forces 50% the size of the German ones (a country with 7 times bigger population), bought a bunch of Leopard 2s but the ammo for them was in a separate contract (and they asked 50 million for the cannon rounds) and is forced to keep buying if it wants to get the so called "bail out" loans. I kid you not, this is stipulated in the papers these geniuses signed.

We're supposed to be taxed to hell, while paying for weapons from specific providers and we are not allowed to merge our debts with the debts of others toward us (like for example the loan Germany got from Greece during the occupation in WWII, that's not war reparations it's clearly stated in the records that it's a loan and it's not paid yet).

All in all, the plan is to get the country deeper and deeper in debt and in a position that it cannot defend itself or exercise dominion rights, so that one day a few high profile companies can come in and say:

"Hey, don't pay back the money you owe that bank. Let me drill for oil in your seas and i'll keep whatever i can get".

Fun fact: Just south of Crete alone and within the Greek exclusive economic zone, the hydrocarbon deposits are estimated to be enough to pay off our entire debt and then some. It was disputed at first, but since deposits tend to run in neighboring regions and seeing how Cyrpus hit the jackpot, most people in the field believe that the deposits extend to the south of Crete too.

But the local leadership here prefers to makes us completely broke first and then pass them off to someone else. Why? Because most probably they're getting paid by them. Nobody is so stupid, but many are treacherous enough :-P

And who's them? Not the German people or the other European citizens, the average German hasn't had a pay raise in the past 10 years.

It's the people who run Europe and want to sacrifice the south hoping to delay their own demise by skinning the southern countries alive. The same countries that borrow money from northern Europe's banks to buy from and keep northern Europe's industries in business. If the south is gone, the north will soon follow. And since the south seems to be gone anyway (it also has to deal with the immigration waves caused by the wars that - surprise - the north usually pursues), the pervading sentiment is to pillage them for all they are worth to delay the fall of the north.

And just like the leaderships are at each other's throats like this, they pass it on to their citizens too: they screw up for all of us, while we are busy blaming each other...the Germans think we're lazy, the Greeks think the Germans are trying to take revenge for WWII and we're too busy with all that to see what's really happening: the sale of nation-states to private interests :razz:

I think the time is close to repeat what Roosevelt said during the 1929 crisis to the big money companies: "give up your hats so you don't lose your heads". Otherwise sooner or later, in no particular order, we are all going to become slaves under a false pretense of democracy.

Capitalism? Sure, but not in a way that puts companies above states. Companies thrive because of states, the people work, pay taxes and go to the army, that's what creates the framework of stability wherein private business thrives. So, when a business becomes to big for its shoes, it's the state's job to remind it that "you only got here because of me, so i'm calling the shots". Too bad the policy makers in Europe are too soft for that 8-)

[Wolf_Rider]

I think the problem is that states are governed by middle-men that work for specific industrial/economic firms and not their citizens.


corporatism

[Bewolf]

corporatism

Yeah, but how to get rid of it? I noticed a relative growths of power coming from the economy and a decline of government/society for quite some time, which begun in the US/UK in the Reagan/Thatcher years and caught on all over the world.

I guess a major reason for that development is because that with the fall of the wall and the end of the cold war governments lost their power base legimicy, with the corporate folks coming to the conclusion they do not need the rest of the people anymore, claiming their own slice of the cake and feeling a bit more equal then the rest. Yanno "we provide the wealth and you better be thankful for us to pay taxes", even if they evade that at all costs to begin with.

Morales in this environment changed from "everything is allowed until it hurts somebody else" to "everything is allowed until it is explictly forbidden"

Blackdogs descritption about those eilites is spot on, by far not reduced to Greece only, though.

[Wolf_Rider]

We're getting into an area I don't think this forum would cater to effectively, or care to allow pursuit of considering the non-politics charter it has, and fair enough to.

At least to say; "Occupy Wall Street" has made a good start in standing up, but it will take the masses not just a handful of protesters to make a change. Is any form of tyranny easy to topple? Make no mistake though, the corporations need people... no people = no power base of control, no workers = no products = no profits = no control/ power. Along these lines think of "people" as battery hens. People penned in tightly in the big cities and working to produce, complete with pecking order (of which some countries have had their populations beaked) and the subsequent attacks on each other because of the pressures of no "space", leading to "space" being a luxury, people are getting sicker and even to collectors going around in the mornings and pulling those (homeless for instance) who died overnight, off the street.

What is a corporation without power or product?


Greece?, I have no personal account of what it is like there on the ground, and that is what is good about forums with an international membership, such as this, as a view can be gleaned, bearing in mind; on the 'net anyone can be anything they want and most anything queried can end up inconclusive" - no reflection, just an observation.
What we're fed here Down Under, is that Greece has a population who's national sport is dodging paying taxes and most are on some sort of welfare ticket/ Government pay cheque... Government corruption and the associated skimming of funds (as BD alluded to), etc notwithstanding.


Something you also would have noticed. Bewulf, is an increase in Governments deciding "they know best".
Something else, the welfare State ideal has engendered a generation with a sense of entitlement, which they are insisting upon.

[Blackdog_kt]

That's the general portrayal abroad. If you want my personal experience for clarification i can say that it's certainly widespread, but mostly in the higher echelons.

It doesn't matter if it's the private or public sector, usually the most effectively and heavily taxed are the lower echelons of both: the more you earn, the easier it seems to avoid taxes. This has a lot to do with the fact that money and connections are things that influence each other and end up in a self-feeding cycle, with certain people growing too big for their shoes at the expense of the mass that does its job, servers in the army (we still have conscription) and pays taxes.

In other words, those who got us into this mess by evading taxes, making bad investments and dodging any kind of contribution to the "team effort" so to speak, are the ones who now expect us to foot the bill :razz:

The previous PM for example, the first time he was about to resign due to public pressure (100-150 thousand people demonstrating outside the house of parliament last July/Auhust), he was prevented by his family members. His brother is a CDS holders who stands to directly gain from the country defaulting.

I too don't want to go into specific politics because it's my job to enforce the rules here and there's a no politics rule, so i'll just end it here. I think it's just sad that we've been pitted against each other as people of Europe (perfect smokescreen for those that want to finish up the job of taking away our citizen rights), while the actual dealings are quite easy to perceive. It's a complex situation and in the case of Greece it's also a geopolitical issue, with many major powers competing for access and influence to the region, often in a manner that directly violates our interests (within our own borders, not across the globe) and dominion rights.

I don't want to say more because this is exactly the kind of topic that tends to inflame discussions. :)

[Wolf_Rider]

I don't want to say more because this is exactly the kind of topic that tends to inflame discussions. :)




yep!.. there's two topics which should never be discussed at a dinner party, if everyone wishes to remain friends, and that is religion and politics :cool:

Thanks for the insight, BD.

[Jaws2002]

It's very obvious that the global financial system is being rigged for a controlled demolition.
I don't even want to know what they planed for us after the crash, but it's scary.

[csThor]

One thing I consider a pillar of the problems and mismanagement we face now is the ... well ... psychological inbreeding of the political and economical elites. When I look at top politicians and managers of Germany I do not see a single person I could envision in average worker's clothes or even a jumpsuit.

These people are recruited from within a caste, a caste which recruits its own offspring to succeed them (hence the psychological inbreeding), whose members never experienced what "real life" is for us ordinary folks. There was a documentary on the education of kids from the upper classes and the overwhelming impression I got was that of an ivory tower. They grow up surrounded by pomp and circumstance, are constantly being told they're going to be decision makers (with all the pressure that brings along) and leave the educational system without ever having seen what life really is about for 99% of the people but with firm conviction that they're the masters of their own fate (or rather - masters of the world). This entitlement ... I mean I thought we'd been long since past the times of god-given rulers. :-|

[Viking]

It's very obvious that the global financial system is being rigged for a controlled demolition.
I don't even want to know what they planed for us after the crash, but it's scary.

The scary thing is that its not controlled and there is no plan B! They only try and keep it going the same way as long as they posibly can.

Viking

[Sternjaeger II]

Nothing new, however, those numbers are not that much higher then ten years ago. Just the attitude towards it changed. Italy in 1999 had a much higher debt then today, for example. Nobody was bothered about it. And that is why this whole finacial hokus pokus is such a pervert affair, it's pure psychology, defined by speculators and rating agencies. Has nothing to do anymore with any kind of laid out rules or fixed margins. A simple rumor can decide about the solvency of entire countries now.

That said, I personally, and to be clear, I speak here for myself only, as a german I rather pay and try to make the EU work then drop back to the times of european national states with all that implies.

+ 1
Eloquently put as usual, I totally agree with you Bewolf.

It's all media scare, they change the size of exchange currencies (selling debts for instance), but it will sort itself out,it's in everybody's interest. The only important aspect is understanding what the next exchange currency will be before the others get at it.

Historically we've been in far worse scenarios, and don't get scared by trillions of dollars in debt,because it's all proportional to your GDP, it's not that we're more in debt today than 20 years ago,it's only inflation caused by capitalist market.

To make it simple: a bag of crisps was 5p 20 years ago,today it's 70p,but it's all proportional to the changes in the costs of life,same rule applies to debt.

Truth is that we're ALL on the same boat: if Europe and USA go down,so will China and India,cos they wouldn't have anybody to do business with.

We've been mostly ignoring the exponential growth of India and China,the cause being that markets move way faster than public opinion.

It's a very large and complex topic (I just got out of a 2 days' conference on it!),but fascinating nonetheless :-)

[Damixu]

I think we Europeans should use US tactics on boosting our economy. We should wage war let's say for example against US, so we both could boost our economies immensely :)
Although, "boosting" of economy was not what happened with war in Iraq and Afghanistan so I guess I made my point moot.







And for the slow minds this was purely a joke, no wish to raise animosity against anyone nor any country.

[baronWastelan]

Sure is nice of those bond holders to voluntarily accept a loss of more than 70 percent. :lol:

Bond Payment
Open questions involve how much more aid Greece needs, how much more austerity is required, and how to involve the European Central Bank in the debt swap. Facing a 14.5 billion-euro ($19.1 billion) bond payment on March 20 and general elections as soon as April, Papademos must heed calls for tighter austerity to complete the talks on a second aid package in time. Venizelos said everything needed to be completed by tomorrow evening.
The discussions have led to tussles among European central bankers and political leaders. The rescue blueprint includes a loss of more than 70 percent for bondholders in a voluntary debt exchange and loans that will probably exceed the 130 billion euros now on the table.
Deutsche Bank AG Chief Executive Officer Josef Ackermann said Greek debt talks are a “make or break” issue and that a collapse of Greece’s economy would open a “Pandora’s box” that would kill a euro-area recovery.
“We are in a make-or-break situation and Greece plays a very important role -- and if we find a solution in the next few days, I think we’re on the right track,” Ackermann told a panel today at the Munich Security Conference. The executive said earlier that he’ll fly to Athens tonight as talks go on over the swap involving Greek debt with a face value of about 200 billion euros.

Article at Bloomberg.com (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-04/greece-talks-enter-final-phase-on-2nd-bailout.html)

[Sternjaeger II]

baronwastelan, I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make :confused:

considering the state of the USA economy, I think you don't have much to snigger anyway..

[Wolf_Rider]

If the everyday household was in the position Greece is in at the moment, the credit card/ loan provider would have called in the debt collection motions ages ago.

[baronWastelan]

Now all eyes are on Germany. CESIfo, the Munich-based economic research group that publishes the closely-followed Ifo Business Climate index, has put a pencil to Germany’s maximum exposure over time, given today’s commitments. In addition to the bailout mechanisms, the report takes into account Germany’s exposure through its 27.1% share of the ECB and its 6% voting rights of the IMF. Total exposure: 635 billion ($831 billion), a whopping 27% of Germany’s GDP. And it doesn’t even include any bailouts within Germany. The details:

- €22 billion for the first bailout package for Greece, agreed upon in May 2010. The Eurozone would contribute €80 billion and the IMF €30 billion—to be paid out in tranches. Hiccups developed immediately. Slovakia didn't participate. Ireland and Portugal dropped out as both were put on life support. Germany's share is based on its share of the ECB (27.1%).

- €1.8 billion for Germany's share (6%) of the IMF’s €30 billion contribution to the package.

- €12 billion for the European Financial Stability Mechanism (EFSM) of €60 billion, established in May 2010—based on Germany's 20% share of the EU budget.

- €253 billion for the European Financial Stability Facility (EFSF), established in June 2010 and enlarged in October 2011 to €780 billion. Germany’s share is 27.1% (based on its share of the ECB), or €211 billion. Also included is the 20% increase allowed under German law.

- €15 billion for the IMF’s €250 billion commitment to the EFSF. Germany’s liability is based on its 6% voting rights of the IMF.

- €94 billion for the ECB’s purchases of sovereign bonds. The "Securities Markets Program," launched in May 2010, has grown to €219 billion. Germany’s exposure is composed of two factors: its share of the ECB (27.1%) and its portion of the share of Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, and Spain, which won’t be able to fulfill their commitments to pay the ECB for losses. For a total of 43%.

- €237 billion through “Target2.” Target2 and its predecessor “Target” were a mundane part of the ECB's interbank payment system. The ECB would temporarily borrow money from the central bank of one country and lend it to the central bank of another. In 2008, however, as capital flight from periphery countries began, the credit flow became one-sided and ballooned with each new outbreak of the debt crisis. Thus, these once ordinary credits became the first de facto bailout of crisis-struck countries. By November 2011, total amount in credits extended to the central banks of Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Spain, and Italy was €556 billion, according to Ifo.

Germany's share of Target2 balances is based on its share of the ECB (27.1%). Since Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Spain, and Italy won’t be able to bear their share of any losses, the remaining 12 countries would have to bear them proportionately, giving Germany 43% in total exposure to Target2 balances.

And so Merkel's question—"How long will that remain credible?"—has become a litmus test for Eurozone bailouts.

http://www.testosteronepit.com/home/2012/1/27/germany-frets-as-bailouts-and-risks-balloon.html

[baronWastelan]

Summary Of Greek Reform "Pledges"
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 02/08/2012 - 14:49
default Germany Greece Gross Domestic Product
At this point everyone is so habituated to worthless updates from Greece that we are shocked Bloomberg even noticed. Either way, here is latest Greek headline tape bomb, via BBG, which looks at a leaked Troika draft report obtained by Bloomberg.


TROIKA DRAFT GREEK ACCORD SAYS 2012 GDP TO SHRINK AS MUCH AS 5% - so make that 15%-25% realistically
GREECE TO CUT MEDICINE SPENDING TO 1.5% OF GDP FROM 1.9% OF GDP - why not just "cull" 15-20% of the population?
GREECE PLEDGES TO MERGE ALL AUXILIARY PENSION FUNDS - one problem - following the default, there will be no pension funds left.
GREECE TO PLEDGE 20% CUT IN MINIMUM WAGE IN TROIKA DRAFT - and Greek citizens pledge to never work again.
TROIKA DRAFT GREEK ACCORD RENEWS PLEDGE TO CUT 150,000 EMPLOYEE - or the US equivalent of nearly 5 million workers...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/summary-greek-reform-pledges

[baronWastelan]

:cool:

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2012/01/Crystal%20Ball.jpg

[moilami]

:cool:

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2012/01/Crystal%20Ball.jpg

LOL, that is pure genius.

[5./JG27.Farber]

:cool:

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2012/01/Crystal%20Ball.jpg


Love it. Cant wait for the Merkelreich to spread. :-P

[FFCW_Urizen]

I´m actually more interested in the "German Nudist Sea". Hopefully, Miss Merkel won´t be allowed there :twisted: .

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

:cool:

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2012/01/Crystal%20Ball.jpg

Since you are having a good troll at Europe, I think its only fair to return the favour. :grin:

http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx259/CaptainKubla/USA_map.png

I did see a very shocking documentary last week called 'Poor America' on BBC's 'Panorama', which contained interviews with families so poor they had to eat rats to survive. It also showed the vital British charity work being done by 100's of UK doctors, Nurses and dentists helping the US' poor......working for absolutely nothing. Some very tragic scenes.

One blokes teeth were so rancid I thought worms were going to start coming out of his mouth, he was in agony, could not afford a dentist and the story is typical. Organisations like Briton Stan Brocks 'Remote area medical' who work for free to help the impoverished of the US say that some areas are '3rd world' in terms of need.

Very sad...I felt really sorry for them :(

[Sternjaeger II]

..I still don't get the point of this thread? :confused:

[addman]

:cool:

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2012/01/Crystal%20Ball.jpg

ROFLMAO! That's sooo funny, got a good chuckle thanks!:grin:

[baronWastelan]

ROFLMAO! That's sooo funny, got a good chuckle thanks!:grin:

Heh , glad to know. I especially enjoyed "Passive Aggressive Kingdom" :twisted:

[JG52Krupi]

I did see a very shocking documentary last week called 'Poor America' on BBC's 'Panorama', which contained interviews with families so poor they had to eat rats to survive. It also showed the vital British charity work being done by 100's of UK doctors, Nurses and dentists helping the US' poor......working for absolutely nothing. Some very tragic scenes.

One blokes teeth were so rancid I thought worms were going to start coming out of his mouth, he was in agony, could not afford a dentist and the story is typical. Organisations like Briton Stan Brocks 'Remote area medical' who work for free to help the impoverished of the US say that some areas are '3rd world' in terms of need.

Very sad...I felt really sorry for them :(

And yet when Obama and the Democrats try to bring a NHS to the USA hes called a socialist and compared to Hitler WTF....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYlZiWK2Iy8

[Sternjaeger II]

Yea I must admit that this is one of the most nonsensical things I've ever heard in my life: how can an average citizen not want free healthcare is beyond me..
And what's most scary is that the person speaking is not an old greedy corporate ba$tard,but a young woman..


It just doesn't compute..

[JG52Krupi]

And what's most scary is that the person speaking is not an old greedy corporate ba$tard,but a young woman..


It just doesn't compute..


Yeah I know when I saw it a few years back I was so shocked :-|

[baronWastelan]

By Darrell Delamaide

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Nothing is what it seems in the agreement reached Monday to bail out Greece.

To start with, the bailout is not for Greece, but for German, French and other foreign banks who willfully abandoned due diligence to buy more Greek debt than any financial analyst would have thought the country could sustain.

The 130 billion euros ($171.9 billion) in aid agreed to by Europe’s finance ministers in their marathon session will go into a managed account to make sure it goes directly to Greece’s creditors when their bonds fall due.

The agreement was made possible when the Greek Parliament a week earlier approved a package of draconian austerity measures, which they, as well as the European finance ministers who insisted on it, know they will never be able to deliver.

Antonis Samaras, the leader of the center-right New Democracy party, said as much during the debate when he urged members of his party to go along with the austerity measures in order to get the bailout done — and then they could be renegotiated after Greek elections in April.

In the shambles that is Greek politics, Samaras’s party is leading in the polls, though it is not expected to win an outright majority.

Even as German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble was leading the charge on Monday to wring more austerity out of the Greeks, one of Germany’s top economists branded the bailout “illusory” and said the type of deflation being exacted of Greece is unrealistic.

Asked in an interview on Monday with Spiegel Online whether this new bailout could save Greece, economist Hans-Werner Sinn answered, “No, and the politicians know it can’t.”

Sinn, who heads the prestigious Ifo Institute for Economic Research and is a professor at the University of Munich, said the bailout is merely a way of buying time. Read the English version of the interview. http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,816410,00.html

He thinks the time and money would be better spent helping Greece manage an exit from the euro , because the only way the country will restore the competitiveness of its economy is through a massive devaluation –—and for that it needs to have its own currency.

The devaluation would be wrenching and cause a good deal of economic pain for a year or two, but that is preferable to the decade of austerity required in the bailout plan, he said. “After a short thunderstorm, the sun will shine again,” Sinn said.

This would enable Greece to lower wages and prices to competitive levels, and allow bank debt to depreciate accordingly. This is not possible as long as Greece retains the euro. “The plan to radically restructure Greece within the euro is illusory,” Sinn said.

The German economist has no sympathy for the banks who bought Greek bonds. “Greece’s creditors aren’t entitled to have the debt repaid by the international community,” he said. “Everyone has to earn their standard of living themselves, and those who choose to earn money from risk must bear that risk.”

The euro patchwork put together this week may unravel even more quickly than many expect. Greek elections in April may lead the country to “renegotiate” (that is, repudiate) the austerity measures, as Samaras intimated.

[TomcatViP]

A damn good read. Thx

[addman]

Heh , glad to know. I especially enjoyed "Passive Aggressive Kingdom" :twisted:

Yeah good one lol! Personally I have to say "EU CANDIDATE" is my favourite, especially when you take it in to context of that map.:grin: I still chuckle a little every time I see it.

[baronWastelan]

pray tell why does superior Europe need $billions from simpleton America?

BBC News 15 March 2012
The International Monetary Fund (IMF) has agreed to pay 28bn euros ($36.7bn, £23.3bn) towards Greece's second bailout of 130bn euros after last week's private debt swap.

The body's approval - which was expected - is the final step in completing the long-awaited rescue fund for the eurozone's worst-hit country.

The IMF said it would pay 1.65bn euros of the money to Greece immediately.

The bailout is intended to help keep Greece funded until 2014.

The IMF board's decision means Greece has now received approval from all of the bodies contributing funds.
----snip--------

In fact, on March 15 the IMF gave Greece another $36.7 billion–$7.5 billion of that money came directly from the U.S. taxpayer. That makes a total of $13 billion U.S. taxpayer dollars spent on Greece alone, and over $20 billion on Europe. If Congress was forced to offset this with cuts, they would need to eliminate a Cabinet level department about the size of the U.S. Department of Labor.

Read more at NetRightDaily.com: http://netrightdaily.com/action/stop-bailing-out-europe/#ixzz1pD9ahjRQ

[Sternjaeger II]

..consider it a refund for the damage done from the US to Greece with "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" :rolleyes: