A good joystick for Clod

[Yellow14150]

Hi guys I come to you with a question only answerable by your extensive expertise.
I'm in the market for a new joystick. My current joystick is am Interact Raider Pro Digital! Circa 1975. (Hey at least its got a hat switch;)

So I'm looking in the $50 to $100 dollar range, the better the deal the better. I can't really justify spending that much money on a joystick, but ah well, I like flying to much. (even if its only in 30-40min spurts)

I was looking at the Saitek x52 or some of the thrustmaster sticks. Someone recommended the Thrustmaster something something M16000 because of no dead zone.
I think I'd prefer a really good stick, as in responsiveness, over a lot of extra buttons and do-dads, as I get by with my 6 button joystick just fine.

Thanks guys

[lensman1945]

Hi!

Find yourself a Microsoft SideWinder Force Feedback 2 Joystick on Ebay.

It works great with Clod and you get the plus of the FFB.

I managed to get myself 3 over the last year...the most I payed was £15.40

[arthursmedley]

+1. I got my MSFF2 from E-Bay last month. Best bit of kit I've got along with TrackIr.

[ATAG_Snapper]

+1 on the MSFFB2. I've owned one for at least 15 years and it still works as new, even though it's had no direct support from Microsoft for a long time, its force feedback still works great with the built in Win 7 drivers.

If you can't find one, I have also recommended the Thrustmaster TM16000 stick - which I keep as backup. It's huge value at $36. It uses Halls sensors which are contactless - they won't wear out, start to "Spike", and are very precise. The stick itself is very sturdy with a smooth action. It comes with a twist-grip Z-axis (for rudder control), a lever for throttle, plus numerous buttons on the stick and base which can either be straightforward Directx plig 'n play, or you can program them for to handle more complex actions with the free Thrustmaster TARGET software. It's a good stick which should last a lifetime, literally.
http://www.amazon.com/Hercules-2960706-Thrustmaster-T-16000M-Flight/dp/B001S0RTU0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1327099851&sr=8-3

[ATAG_MajorBorris]

With CoD I have been using ch stuff for the bombers but I will allways love the MSFF2

[Sokol1]

Thrustmaster TM16000 stick... It uses Halls sensors which are contactless - they won't wear out, start to "Spike", and are very precise. It's a good stick which should last a lifetime, literally.

Notice that TM16.000M HALL sensor is only in X and Y axis, rudder and throttle still use ordinary pots, the same bad quality find in 90% of low cost sticks (and even in Cougar):
http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=883109#post883109

In spite of this, T16.000 is the best option available in entry level joystick.

Sokol1

[buzzard]

I have the Saitek X52 Pro with throttle quadrant and pedals. Very satisfied, works great with CloD, Wings of Prey and Rise of Flight, to name a few. Most games seem to recognize the setup, as the controls are usually configured out of the gate, with a few tweaks of course. I agree about the 'old style' pots, but no problems as yet. The regular X52 looks like a Star Trek device, go for the Pro, it looks better (if that matters).

AMD Phenom II 965 BE 3.4 stock
8 GB GSKill RAM
Win 7 Pro 64 bit
ATI 5830 x 2 Crossfire
Creative X-Fi Titanium

[bravoalpha]

Notice that TM16.000M HALL sensor is only in X and Y axis, rudder and throttle still use ordinary pots, the same bad quality find in 90% of low cost sticks (and even in Cougar):
http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=883109#post883109

In spite of this, T16.000 is the best option available in entry level joystick.

Sokol1

Edit: I saw a site with wrong infos. If the T16.000 not an FFB stick, go for a basic Saitek like the Aviator with two throttle.
Any normal pot can be replaced easily, or there are a lot of way to clean and make them work forever! If its ever will be needed. I never heard any problems about Saitek (like cyborg) , thousands of hours of use and no matter.

OFF:
Haha, those crappots! Can anyone tell anything about them? 100K linear, 270°? In my Logitech all of these kinda potmeter is working only in the short range, max 60° in middle way. I started a DIY controller project and I want to replace them!
ON

[bolox]

100K linear, 270° would be a standard pot. the type used in some joysticks do often have a reduced 'active' rotation of ~60 deg as you notice.

pretty much any 100k pot will work tho i usually look for at least 1/2 Watt rating and if its in the specs the projected number of rotations ~1000000 is good.

for a first project i'd suggest just getting cheapish pots(<£5) and a cheap plastic 'project box' to mount them in. if you are thinking of using one or more pots for trims (partic elev) i'd recommend finding a pot with 'multiturn' capability-5 or 10 turns is normal. these are around £10 each but the better sensitivity is worth it;)

good luck

[Sokol1]

Any normal pot can be replaced easily,

Mmm, not too easy.

Joystick pot in general is different from "normal" pot, that are build to work for ~270 degress.
Some joystick pot have condutive trail only in ~60 degress, eventually a 270 one work for substituition, but with loss of resolution.
The major problemn is find new pot with same phisical dimentions of the old, the same leght of axis and the key in apropriated angle.
If joystick mannufacture provides replacents, but in general no.
Someone say that is due to the fact to replace pot is need soldering, and one can burn your fingers in the procces and sue the manufacturer (in USA)...
Exception is CH Products, their pots dont require soldef, just plug tabs.

In my Logitech all of these kinda potmeter is working only in the short range, max 60° in middle way. I started a DIY controller project and I want to replace them!
ON

Fortunatelly today is easy and inexpensive replace pots with HALL sensor - if you have a DIY mind.

Buy Honeywell SS495A or Allegro A1321EUA-T HALL sensor, some neodimium magnets, and plug in pots wires. The "hard" part is find the correct center, require many trial and errors. See some tips in SimHQ.

[quote]
100K linear, 270° would be a standard pot[/quote

100k pot are standart in gamepor devices.

Today USB controllers use low values, tipically 10~50k.

The "rule of the thumb": hight values tend to pick more "noise" (spikes), and low values consumes more Amperes from USB port.

Sokol1

[Damixu]

MS SideWinder FFB 2 > any other available on the market as WWII aircraft control.

[bravoalpha]

Mmm, not too easy.

Joystick pot in general is different from "normal" pot, that are build to work for ~270 degress.
Some joystick pot have condutive trail only in ~60 degress, eventually a 270 one work for substituition, but with loss of resolution.
The major problemn is find new pot with same phisical dimentions of the old, the same leght of axis and the key in apropriated angle.
The good pots (like Saitek's) seems fit with some standards in size and the trail and shaft can resize or recalibrate with a little work - or the old ones could be cleand and lubricate. A musician/guitar forum could help for the tricks.

Thanks for the tips! I will check the HALL sensors, but now I need only some knob to turn before me and pots below them.
Cheers!

[Sokol1]

If you plan use for trim, look at these pot (with knobs):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Electro-Techniques-10K-Potentiometers-w-10-Turn-Multidial-Knobs-Tested-/320833629125?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab32cabc5

Sokol1

[xnomad]

MSFFB2 all the way.

I say this all the time but why don't the stick manufacturers try to make one as good or better? Surely they must be aware that the MSFFB2 is the one to beat. People are willing to paying $150 for a second hand one for goodness sake!

Won't MS sell the patent to someone?

We should petition Saitek, Logitech, CH etc to try to make one. It's silly that we are all running such old hardware and I dread the day mine packs it in. I've already lost button 2 and I don't want to risk opening it up and fix it until the trigger button goes.

[bravoalpha]

If you plan use for trim, look at these pot (with knobs):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Electro-Techniques-10K-Potentiometers-w-10-Turn-Multidial-Knobs-Tested-/320833629125?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab32cabc5

Sokol1

Thanks! Fortunately I can find multiturn pots in better price, i'll start with them.

[swiss]

Won't MS sell the patent to someone?


That is the reason they stopped producing it - they didn't own them and got sued.

[Sokol1]

That is the reason they stopped producing it - they didn't own them and got sued.

Immersion Force Feedback patent issue:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_v._Sony;

MS settled out of court, Sony pay.

Sokol1

[MB_Avro_UK]

Can I confirm that MSFFB is compatible with Windows 7 64 bit?

[lensman1945]

Can I confirm that MSFFB is compatible with Windows 7 64 bit?

Yes, it was plug and play for me with the same operating system.

[xpupx]

Hi guys I come to you with a question only answerable by your extensive expertise.
I'm in the market for a new joystick. My current joystick is am Interact Raider Pro Digital! Circa 1975. (Hey at least its got a hat switch;)

So I'm looking in the $50 to $100 dollar range, the better the deal the better. I can't really justify spending that much money on a joystick, but ah well, I like flying to much. (even if its only in 30-40min spurts)

I was looking at the Saitek x52 or some of the thrustmaster sticks. Someone recommended the Thrustmaster something something M16000 because of no dead zone.
I think I'd prefer a really good stick, as in responsiveness, over a lot of extra buttons and do-dads, as I get by with my 6 button joystick just fine.

Thanks guys

Stay away from the Saitek x52 bad news if you can afford it go the Logitech G940 its sweet....... but for a cheap stick go with the Thrust master Hotas T Flight X its the best thing for the money(I would sell you mine but i just cant seem to let it go yet )

[addman]

Saitek Aviator, I have the very first version. The stick itself isn't too much to write home about, logitech attack even has a better stick IMO BUT it has dual throttles which means I can assign elevator trim to one of them and that's sooooo important when you're flying, you have to haveelevator trim on an axis IMO. Also the saitek is easy to program with and you basically have 3 x 12 buttons (36) with the mode switcher. I also have a logitech attack but it only has one throttle lever and no twist rudder, I wish I could have the logitech attack stick on my saitek aviator....

[Steve Zodiac]

I have a thrustmaster Hotas X and it is a good stick but if you can find a Sidewinder FF2 in good knick grab it. Great stick and very precise for gunnery. I initially had a centering problem after spawning (stick was slack until flying) but fixed that with a regedit change.

[gavagai]

I have a thrustmaster Hotas X and it is a good stick but if you can find a Sidewinder FF2 in good knick grab it. Great stick and very precise for gunnery. I initially had a centering problem after spawning (stick was slack until flying) but fixed that with a regedit change.

Can you explain how you did that? Thanks!