View Full Version : CO-OPs again...
furbs
12-29-2011, 07:46 PM
After the CO-OP poll i thought i remembered something Luthier had said, and here it is....
Unfortunately two major things we cut out of the beta version of the patch did not make it into this release. Distant 2D clouds continue to conflict with NVidia SLI. The old Il-2 co-op style plane/position selection GUI also needs more work.
These changes will be released shortly.
From here... http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=24037
Which seems odd when Luthier says this now....
Will we see the coop mission in CloD, as it was in the old "IL-2"?
Quote:
Don’t understand the question. The way we see it, CoD already has Il-2-style co-op. We are certainly not planning any major changes to online modes, GUI, or anything like that.
Confused, so was Luthier just making that up about the clouds and CO-OPs? patch padding?
Tickl3
12-29-2011, 08:23 PM
I remeber this too.
So whats going on with it???????
Or is it just another unanswered question?
pupo162
12-29-2011, 08:37 PM
uhm.... maybe luthier fixed, tough it was released when it isnt. it would be a normal confusion and happens to me.
Or maybe we're all talking cross purposes, he specifically states GUI there and most of the discussion I've seen mentioned just says co-ops, in which case Luthier is right, they do exist, we just don't have the GUI yet?
furbs
12-29-2011, 08:53 PM
No Dano, i think they have gone the same place as this lot....remember...
FM reworked
DM fixed
Radio coms working
Radar
Ground control
British ships
2d clouds
Sli fixed
Exe crashes fixed
Community manager
Ground handling
Something great but i cant say...
SDK coming very soon!
FMB docs
Server files
kristorf
12-29-2011, 08:53 PM
The big downer for the Squad I am in at the moment is the inability to have coops on the main channel map, really the whole idea of the game for squad based flyers I think.....
Stop that furbs, I'm trying to stay positive :)
Tree_UK
12-29-2011, 09:21 PM
Stay positive guys its not good for your membership to be anything else here. I think Luthier is doing a fantastic job, its just that he has great difficulty in remembering anything. :confused:
HR_Naglfar
12-29-2011, 09:47 PM
After the CO-OP poll i thought i remembered something Luthier had said, and here it is....
Unfortunately two major things we cut out of the beta version of the patch did not make it into this release. Distant 2D clouds continue to conflict with NVidia SLI. The old Il-2 co-op style plane/position selection GUI also needs more work.
These changes will be released shortly.
From here... http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=24037
Luthier was probably refering to the plane/position list in the map/briefing menu, wich was introduced in one of the patches.
And yeah... it's possible to play coops in Cliffs of Dover right now, just design a coop mission instead of a dogfight map. And you can use a coop script to get rid of the plane selection problem and if you don't want the AI taking off early.
Ataros
12-29-2011, 10:25 PM
Luthier was probably refering to the plane/position list in the map/briefing menu, wich was introduced in one of the patches.
Yes, COOP-style plane selection menu was introduced in the latest patch. It is supposed to fix the coop issue when players could not select planes if map icons were turned off. Before patch it was possible to select planes in coop only by clicking their icons on the map.
WPF.Unavailable issue prevents the menu from working correctly on the channel map however. A script posted in the MP forums sections solves this and other problems but does not have a GUI: i.e. players have to press 1,2,3,4, etc. keys on keyboard instead of clicking LMB. Not a big deal.
ACE-OF-ACES
12-30-2011, 12:25 AM
Luthier was probably referring to the plane/position list in the map/briefing menu, which was introduced in one of the patches.Now that makes more since than any of the the 'theories' thus far of Luthier being forgetful and/or confused.
furbs
12-30-2011, 05:49 AM
Works brilliantly it does! loads of people playing co-ops every night! we dont need anything else :rolleyes:
Chivas
12-30-2011, 07:36 AM
Works brilliantly it does! loads of people playing co-ops every night! we dont need anything else :rolleyes:
Hardly anyone is playing in any type of server at the moment and it will stay that way until they get the game engine fps and stability sorted, etc etc etc. This is exactly what the developer is trying to do but nobody remembers unless they post it every other day.
Tree_UK
12-30-2011, 08:20 AM
Hardly anyone is playing in any type of server at the moment and it will stay that way until they get the game engine fps and stability sorted, etc etc etc. This is exactly what the developer is trying to do but nobody remembers unless they post it every other day.
We do remember Chivas, we have been remembering for the past 9 months.
HR_Naglfar
12-30-2011, 09:15 AM
Works brilliantly it does! loads of people playing co-ops every night! we dont need anything else :rolleyes:
Well... If we dont play coops in my squad right now it's because of the memory leak problem (doesn't have sense to be flying 1 hour just to crash the game when you are going to drop bombs), and also the only allied bomber has a wrong and very difficult FM. Aside from that there's absolutely no problem to play a cooperative mission.
So we need the new patch solving these 2 problems, not an old GUI from an old game.
Chivas
12-30-2011, 06:08 PM
We do remember Chivas, we have been remembering for the past 9 months.
I like you Tree, and enjoyed flying with you, and hope to fly with you again, but you should be banned from the forums until the sim is on solid ground. Everyone understands the problems and doesn't need your constant negative refrain that can only drive away possible members of the community. It would be different if your constant unrelenting negativism was constructive but it never is.
furbs
12-30-2011, 06:11 PM
Well... If we dont play coops in my squad right now it's because of the memory leak problem (doesn't have sense to be flying 1 hour just to crash the game when you are going to drop bombs), and also the only allied bomber has a wrong and very difficult FM. Aside from that there's absolutely no problem to play a cooperative mission.
So we need the new patch solving these 2 problems, not an old GUI from an old game.
Naglfar i would really like you to some me how its possible, some sqd mates and myself would appreciate it.
Tree_UK
12-30-2011, 06:29 PM
I like you Tree, and enjoyed flying with you, and hope to fly with you again, but you should be banned from the forums until the sim is on solid ground. Everyone understands the problems and doesn't need your constant negative refrain that can only drive away possible members of the community. It would be different if your constant unrelenting negativism was constructive but it never is.
I like you too Chivas and have much respect for you as a person and a pilot, even though you have disagreed with me right from the offset and even with most things I pointed out before release having sadly come to fruition i still would not wish you or anyone else for that matter banned, because although the points you made before release sadly fell on stoney ground I still think you were/are entltled to say them, I have never pm'd a moderator to ask for someone to be banned because im not that sort of person. Sadly you do not feel the same way. So i guess we should agree to disagree but I would never ask for a ban for you despite your track record of not being able to read between the lines. I hope you have a great new year.
von Pilsner
12-30-2011, 07:06 PM
I like you Tree, and enjoyed flying with you, and hope to fly with you again, but you should be banned from the forums until the sim is on solid ground. Everyone understands the problems and doesn't need your constant negative refrain that can only drive away possible members of the community. It would be different if your constant unrelenting negativism was constructive but it never is.
An early release and bad reviews is way more likely to keep users away than when a forum user points out the games flaws.
Tree (and everyone else) should stay here unless the mods decide he has crossed the line. There are people here who make me not want to post (or visit these forums) because they are such obnoxious trolls, but since they support the game they are allowed to stay (I don't mean you, Chivas) so I think we need guys like Tree who are vocal about the game to balance it out.
And more on topic: as an offline flyer I would be very interested in Co-op missions working smoothly (and launcher crash fixed) cause that could get me to fly online more... (AI and comms keep me from playing much SP at the moment, but I know the upcoming patch should fix those issues).
Happy Holidays Folks
robtek
12-30-2011, 07:10 PM
I like you Tree, and enjoyed flying with you, and hope to fly with you again, but you should be banned from the forums until the sim is on solid ground. Everyone understands the problems and doesn't need your constant negative refrain that can only drive away possible members of the community. It would be different if your constant unrelenting negativism was constructive but it never is.
Tree, except for the banning i'll subscribe Chivas post!
I still hope that you see the light and realize that constant bickering is contraproductive.
You seem to me like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde respective flying and posting.
Chivas
12-30-2011, 07:14 PM
I like you too Chivas and have much respect for you as a person and a pilot, even though you have disagreed with me right from the offset and even with most things I pointed out before release having sadly come to fruition i still would not wish you or anyone else for that matter banned, because although the points you made before release sadly fell on stoney ground I still think you were/are entltled to say them, I have never pm'd a moderator to ask for someone to be banned because im not that sort of person. Sadly you do not feel the same way. So i guess we should agree to disagree but I would never ask for a ban for you despite your track record of not being able to read between the lines. I hope you have a great new year.
I've never PM'd the moderators for the ban of you or anyone else in these forums. I've also said for the last five years I didn't think it would be possible for the developer to apply all the features they talked about with playable frame rates. i've also told you a few times its the easiest thing in the world to predict missing features and delays in a development this complex. I understood the developers were letting the community know what they were working on and that there were never any promises. You never understood this and took everything they said as a promise, and accused them of being liars if they didn't succeed on your time frame. I hope you have a great new year aswell. :)
Tree_UK
12-30-2011, 07:36 PM
Well if somebody tells a lie then I do have a tendancy to point that out. i think even the most ardent fan of this sim would be hard pushed to say that we haven't been given more than a few porky over these last few years.
bongodriver
12-30-2011, 07:38 PM
The cake is a lie......
JG52Uther
12-30-2011, 07:42 PM
This thread is about co ops, so talk about co ops...
Tree_UK
12-30-2011, 07:44 PM
This thread is about co ops, so talk about co ops...
yes, lets get back on track, so any news on when the Co op's will be fixed?
JG52Uther
12-30-2011, 07:47 PM
Dunno. Hopefully the devs can be persuaded to look at it again. Some people seem happy with the new set up, but I think there is a significant portion of the community IMO (I guess mainly squad flyers) that would prefer the old system. I don't know if it is just a GUI issue or the whole system.
My own opinion is there was absolutely nothing wrong with the old system, but who knows what will be developed for this series in the future.
Chivas
12-30-2011, 08:07 PM
Personally I don't think the developer has stopped looking at it. It appears their plan is to have a server platform with plenty of options to satisfy most simmers and the SDK will probably help the community further modify the platform. There is a huge amount of documentation to be done yet, never mind every other aspect of the sim they are still working on.
It will be a Keystone Cop movie in the developers office until the basic game engine is working. Until then I still enjoy the odd flight on the ATAG server where I can fly my ground attack mission or air interdiction against humans and AI, most everyone on comms, much the same way I did flying COOPs just without the wait. The fine details will come eventually.
JG52Krupi
12-30-2011, 09:21 PM
The cake is a lie......
Respect ;)
I am hoping Co-op will come back with a properly implemented gui.
HR_Naglfar
12-30-2011, 09:52 PM
Naglfar i would really like you to some me how its possible, some sqd mates and myself would appreciate it.
Ok. I don't know what exactly do you need to know, so I'll try to explain it all.
First of all you'll need a coop script. There are two right now:
- By Naryv: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=354537
- By 41Sqn_Banks: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28559
I've used Naryv's one, didn't have time to try the one from Banks, so I'll explain how to use Naryv's script. With pics and stuff :mrgreen:
To start you'll need a coop like designed mission. In this example it's just a group of Blenheims with a Spitfire escort, flying to attack some german airbases. And a trigger acting like some kind of radar to alert a group of 109 and 110 defending the airbases:
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff249/Naglfar_90/coop01.jpg
You need to make sure that all the airgroups are idle, so they'll start only when the script says so. Just selecting each group, and cheking idle in the airgroup properties tab:
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff249/Naglfar_90/coop02.jpg
When your done editing your mission just save it. Then you'll have to rename the script file to the same name as your mission file, and put it in the same folder of course.
You can edit it if you need (to add other scripts for example) clicking Edit, Script, and selecting the Script tab in the FMB (you can also copypaste the script directly here instead of rename the file):
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff249/Naglfar_90/coop04.jpg
Now we are ready to fly the mission.
Join the game and select side, the script will put you in a plane. You can open the map, press the right button, and click in briefing to read it. Or you can hit ESC to go again to the map room and read the briefing there.
When you've decided what plane do you want, simply hit TAB to open the comms menu, and then select option 4, Mission:
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff249/Naglfar_90/coop05.jpg
You'll see this; select option 1, Select Group (sorry for the chat :-P):
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff249/Naglfar_90/coop06.jpg
Then you'll have a list of all the selectable Air Groups, select whatever you want (then you'll have a list of all the planes of the group, select again what you want...):
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff249/Naglfar_90/coop07.jpg
With a plane selected, you'll see a list of all the available positions in the plane. If there is someone ocuppying this position, you'll see his name. Again select the position you want:
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff249/Naglfar_90/coop11.jpg
Finally, when you're happy with your plane and your position, open again the comms menu, select Mission, and this time select Start Battle.
When everybody is ready and selects Start Battle well... the battle starts:
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff249/Naglfar_90/coop12.jpg
It's very easy to do and much quicker than it looks here.
Only one more thing if you host the mission in a dedicated server. The server is counted as a player, so if it's a dedicated server it can't say that it's ready to start. The solution is simple, just edit this line in the script (put 1 instead of 0) to make the battle start when everybody minus one is ready:
int readyCount = 0
It's in the middle of the script aprox...
Now all the people will say that this is not a cooperative and I'll have made all this for nothing :lol:
jimbop
12-30-2011, 09:58 PM
If you're not satisfied with the current system why not ask BlackSix to add it to the next list of questions for Luthier at the sukhoi thread here (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28174)? Be specific with your query and suggestion.
addman
12-30-2011, 10:02 PM
Respect ;)
I am hoping Co-op will come back with a properly implemented gui.
Yes, personally I'm not saying that it has to be like the old gui, it wasn't perfect and had it's flaws. I suggest that the developers take a look at other games, not just flight sims. There's nothing wrong in borrowing something that works.
furbs
12-30-2011, 10:08 PM
Thanks very much for that!
Il give it a go so its not a waste of effort on your part but it does seem a very long winded way to do what was a couple of clicks the old way.
But again thanks for this mate.
HR_Naglfar
12-30-2011, 10:15 PM
Thanks very much for that!
Il give it a go so its not a waste of effort on your part but it does seem a very long winded way to do what was a couple of clicks the old way.
But again thanks for this mate.
Once you have the mission ready it's just 4 or 5 clicks, not so long :mrgreen:
Also I forgot to mention that the plane load it's whatever the mission designer put in the FMB. It can't be changed when you select the plane.
Skoshi Tiger
12-30-2011, 11:02 PM
Ok. I don't know what exactly do you need to know, so I'll try to explain it all.
.....
Now all the people will say that this is not a cooperative and I'll have made all this for nothing :lol:
Thank you for the detailed run through of the procedure.
Cheers and Happy New Year!
pupo162
12-30-2011, 11:42 PM
Yes, personally I'm not saying that it has to be like the old gui, it wasn't perfect and had it's flaws. I suggest that the developers take a look at other games, not just flight sims. There's nothing wrong in borrowing something that works.
SO? waht do you think it is missing?
Personally, developing a script that loads on coop after the other after a certain time would be nice.
So that you have a list of planes that you can take and will take off at 10AM, you fly and land, wait, then another list of planes pop up for the 11AM sortie. this would result in a continuous dogfight style gameplay, but would create a wave effect, rather than a "resupply the front line" one.
by lsit i mean the il2 1946 coop plane select thingy.
Madfish
12-31-2011, 09:08 AM
I believe Co-Op is now already possibly much better than it ever was. It's just a different approach and map makers need to re-think.
If the community could get a few coders on board and the SDK and some documentation get's released I believe the current system can be MUCH more than co-op. It can be "just" co-op, yes - but also a large dynamic and co-opable campaign map, side mission co-op on live online servers (e.g. an online dogfight map could have numerous co-op missions if you find a few guys and want to fly with them etc.)
The only downside is that there is a bit of lack of documentation. And that the scripting part needs to be provided by community members - which often is very unreliable and tedious.
That said I'm really wondering why there isn't a forum section (or sub section) just for co-op maps. It'd help people make them, talk about how to make them and share them without the clutter of a merged universal forum.
My suggestion:
developers could provide a sticky detailing their view on how the co-op's should be done in the game now and providing some great code snippets and links to documentation to help the community using the new style co-op's ;)
developers / moderators could create a sub-forum under the "CoD Multiplayer" board.
moderators could maintain a sticky post providing a list with co-op maps, documentation etc.
regulars could describe specific scenarios and tell about how they would envision the co-op to work, eventually this can be solved already and if not it could be seen and discussed as a suggestion eventually
experts in coding could provide their code snippets
expert map makers could post tutorials on which code snips they used and how. videos or pictured and detailed posts would be easy to understand.
everyone could visit the forum and either get into mapping or try and play the co-op missions provided by the community.
I strongly believe co-op is a great aspect of any multiplayer game and should be very much cared for.
Ataros
12-31-2011, 10:08 AM
Ok. I don't know what exactly do you need to know, so I'll try to explain it all.
Thank yoг very much for detailed explanation. Banks' version is an improved naryv's version, thus I'd recommend using Banks' one. He is also more prepared to provide support to it.
@ ALL
However he paused development recently because no one shows real interest in coops on these forums. About 120 people read this thread http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28651&highlight=coop+script and no one replied to it or provided a bugreport to Banks as I begged there.
This fact simply proves that some forum warriors are interested only in using the coops topic for abusing the devs on the forums but not in really flying coops. Proving every day that "I was right saying that the game would not work" makes you feel good but feeling good because of other persons' failure makes others feeling a certain way about you. Try feeling good because of helping those who failed for a change, send a bug report to Banks at least.
theOden
12-31-2011, 11:21 AM
Some nice assumptions there Ataros.
I'll make one too: Maybe folks want something out of the box and not manually slapping their missions to make it work?
Ataros
12-31-2011, 11:24 AM
Some nice assumptions there Ataros.
I'll make one too: Maybe folks want something out of the box and not manually slapping their missions to make it work?
I agree and made my point directly to Luthier in the appropriate thread http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=372492&postcount=25
Will not repeat it every day as it would not help but would on the contrary harm CloD and the series.
PS. Sorry for my spelling errors.
JG52Krupi
12-31-2011, 11:35 AM
Will not repeat it every day as it would not help but would on the contrary harm CloD and the series.
+1
Ataros
12-31-2011, 11:44 AM
It can be "just" co-op, yes - but also a large dynamic and co-opable campaign map, side mission co-op on live online servers (e.g. an online dogfight map could have numerous co-op missions if you find a few guys and want to fly with them etc.)
Exactly. This is important. I hope as soon as this project is ready http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=358320&postcount=71 Banks will integrate some sort of coop mechanics into it at a later stage. E.g. players would be able to create coop flights via the TAB-4 menu to attack current objectives.
furbs
12-31-2011, 04:15 PM
Very good reply's thanks chaps, but i still think we should have and i cant see what harm it could do to have both ways.
making CO-OPs still should be easy and intuitive, and be simple enough for anyone to make, adjust and play.
I hope Luthier will change his mind and see this, until he does i think there will be no online wars.
HR_Naglfar
12-31-2011, 06:16 PM
Very good reply's thanks chaps, but i still think we should have and i cant see what harm it could do to have both ways.
making CO-OPs still should be easy and intuitive, and be simple enough for anyone to make, adjust and play.
I hope Luthier will change his mind and see this, until he does i think there will be no online wars.
Well there's no need of old coops to make an online war... I think that right now it's possible to make a classic online war (generating missions, reporting logs, all that...). I don't see what's the problem to make that.
But the possibilities that you have with scripts are way better than that. You can make a 24/7 war, moving ground units, generating air missions and watching all these movements in a web browser map in real time. Just like a SEOW, but in real time.
Or you can make it with dynamic ground movements. Like the ADW but without stopping to load the next mission.
And a lot of things more can be done, but all this needs time, and people willing to do it.
Personally I think that, speaking only about online wars, the old coop system is a thing from the past and no longer needed.
furbs
12-31-2011, 06:42 PM
Lets hope your right, and time will tell. Because so far NOTHING is happening online for sqds apart from air quake on ATAG.
Ive not seen one new style coop(how do we find one?) online so far.
fruitbat
01-01-2012, 04:59 PM
Lets hope your right, and time will tell. Because so far NOTHING is happening online for sqds apart from air quake on ATAG.
Ive not seen one new style coop(how do we find one?) online so far.
Certainly true for the Dangerdogz.
We wait patiently..........
Chivas
01-01-2012, 06:00 PM
There probably won't be an exodus of simmers from 46 to play COD online until most of the issues are fixed for people with average computers. Personally I've been able to fly the ATAG server with no problems. Not sure if its because I have decent computer with a separate OP and SSD for COD only, or just lucky.
KG26_Alpha
01-01-2012, 06:58 PM
There probably won't be an exodus of simmers from 46 to play COD online until most of the issues are fixed for people with average computers. Personally I've been able to fly the ATAG server with no problems. Not sure if its because I have decent computer with a separate OP and SSD for COD only, or just lucky.
Don't think pc powers the main problem holding up migration, its simply the fact the transition is so difficult, GUI, Steam, etc etc.
Many IL2 1946 users are used to the Hyperlobby and the format used to fly there,
CoD in its present form suits the casual lone wolf DF server flyer as it has no "soul" or community as of yet.
Until it becomes more user friendly and Squad orientated it will remain as it is a DF server quake game.
Lessons should have been learnt and integrated into CoD from the way people use IL2 1946 to keep the continuity and migration simpler.
The Hyperlobby community has been supporting new users to IL2 1946 for more years than I can remember, leading to increased sales
and generally keeping a huge interest gong with the IL2 series.
I cant see a few Dog Fight servers on Steam holding user interest for long.
.
fruitbat
01-01-2012, 07:10 PM
Don't think pc powers the main problem holding up migration, its simply the fact the transition is so difficult, GUI, Steam, etc etc.
Many IL2 1946 users are used to the Hyperlobby and the format used to fly there,
CoD in its present form suits the casual lone wolf DF server flyer as it has no "soul" or community as of yet.
Until it becomes more user friendly and Squad orientated it will remain as it is a DF server quake game.
Lessons should have been learnt and integrated into CoD from the way people use IL2 1946 to keep the continuity and migration simpler.
The Hyperlobby community has been supporting new users to IL2 1946 for more years than I can remember, leading to increased sales
and generally keeping a huge interest gong with the IL2 series.
I cant see a few Dog Fight servers on Steam holding user interest for long.
.
quoted for truth, spot on.
anyway, roll on 4.11.
pupo162
01-01-2012, 07:25 PM
Don't think pc powers the main problem holding up migration, its simply the fact the transition is so difficult, GUI, Steam, etc etc.
Many IL2 1946 users are used to the Hyperlobby and the format used to fly there,
CoD in its present form suits the casual lone wolf DF server flyer as it has no "soul" or community as of yet.
Until it becomes more user friendly and Squad orientated it will remain as it is a DF server quake game.
Lessons should have been learnt and integrated into CoD from the way people use IL2 1946 to keep the continuity and migration simpler.
The Hyperlobby community has been supporting new users to IL2 1946 for more years than I can remember, leading to increased sales
and generally keeping a huge interest gong with the IL2 series.
I cant see a few Dog Fight servers on Steam holding user interest for long.
.
this is true. when i decided to trey hte game online i googled " how to paly il2 online" go the link of hyperloby typed in chat "hi, im a noob" and then i had these like 5 offers to different squads and a lot of guys teaching me how to use it, and told me what foruns i should go to and all that stuff.
HR_Naglfar
01-01-2012, 07:30 PM
So better not evolve and keep everything the same forever just to keep the continuity? :rolleyes:
Hyperlobby also works with CoD btw...
Chivas
01-01-2012, 07:32 PM
Don't think pc powers the main problem holding up migration, its simply the fact the transition is so difficult, GUI, Steam, etc etc.
Many IL2 1946 users are used to the Hyperlobby and the format used to fly there,
CoD in its present form suits the casual lone wolf DF server flyer as it has no "soul" or community as of yet.
Until it becomes more user friendly and Squad orientated it will remain as it is a DF server quake game.
Lessons should have been learnt and integrated into CoD from the way people use IL2 1946 to keep the continuity and migration simpler.
The Hyperlobby community has been supporting new users to IL2 1946 for more years than I can remember, leading to increased sales
and generally keeping a huge interest gong with the IL2 series.
I cant see a few Dog Fight servers on Steam holding user interest for long.
.
I agree that COD still needs alot of other work, but one of the few servers with any people in it, is the ATAG server where most people are flying missions together on comms. The missions are more COOP related, than airquake. Both sides have ground targets and organize flights of bombers some with multiple people in the same bomber, others fly escort, while others provide cover over the target area. This have very little in commone with airquake.
furbs
01-01-2012, 08:03 PM
Chivas, ive spent prob about 30 hours on ATAG and ive never seen more than 2 human bombers together plus 1 escort.
most of my time was spent chasing vashising dots and stopping 109s straffing airfields.
Bewolf
01-01-2012, 08:10 PM
Chivas, ive spent prob about 30 hours on ATAG and ive never seen more than 2 human bombers together plus 1 escort.
most of my time was spent chasing vashising dots and stopping 109s straffing airfields.
It's getting much better once you are on coms, in this quite a few flights get together. My fav was a 5 ship 110 raid so far.
However, ATAG provides a very static environment and I am looking forward to the day when there will be more moving targets, triggers and dynamic missions.
furbs
01-01-2012, 08:14 PM
I will give it another go tomorrow.
Chivas
01-01-2012, 09:26 PM
It's getting much better once you are on coms, in this quite a few flights get together. My fav was a 5 ship 110 raid so far.
However, ATAG provides a very static environment and I am looking forward to the day when there will be more moving targets, triggers and dynamic missions.
I agree triggers which are great feature available now, but I'm not sure how easy it is to implement, or how it effects frame rates at this time. Moving targets are also available on the servers, but again I don't now how well they work. When everything gets sorted and optimized by the developer/ community, the missions will be awesome.
KG26_Alpha
01-01-2012, 09:59 PM
So better not evolve and keep everything the same forever just to keep the continuity? :rolleyes:
Hyperlobby also works with CoD btw...
Yes evolution is good ........ if we can evolve and continue, at the moment its not for many of us.
Continuity = £ & $
Re: Hyperlobby
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=25745
.
Rikupsoni
01-03-2012, 01:35 AM
Why did they have to get rid ouf the IL2: FB lobby system? I just got CloD and still haven't figured out how to play it with friends my own server.
I can't even see if they have connected, although the chat works fine. The plane selection is very buggy, and only the server owner can press fly - others will stay at the lobby.
Honestly it can't possibly be this buggy, I must be doing something wrong? If I only did figure out what. Never had problems with 1946, although it had no server list, atleast the listen server creator worked perfectly.
Chivas
01-03-2012, 03:07 AM
Why did they have to get rid ouf the IL2: FB lobby system? I just got CloD and still haven't figured out how to play it with friends my own server.
I can't even see if they have connected, although the chat works fine. The plane selection is very buggy, and only the server owner can press fly - others will stay at the lobby.
Honestly it can't possibly be this buggy, I must be doing something wrong? If I only did figure out what. Never had problems with 1946, although it had no server list, atleast the listen server creator worked perfectly.
The COD developer has nothing to do with Hyperlobby. Hyperlobby was setup by a third party who I believe is in the process of adding COD to their sim list.
COD is quite buggy as it had to be released before it was finished for financial reasons. They have address some issues with patches and are in the process of developing further patches for COD while also developing a sequel which can be merged with COD.
furbs
01-03-2012, 06:16 AM
Why did they have to get rid ouf the IL2: FB lobby system? I just got CloD and still haven't figured out how to play it with friends my own server.
I can't even see if they have connected, although the chat works fine. The plane selection is very buggy, and only the server owner can press fly - others will stay at the lobby.
Honestly it can't possibly be this buggy, I must be doing something wrong? If I only did figure out what. Never had problems with 1946, although it had no server list, atleast the listen server creator worked perfectly.
You are wrong, its perfect the way it is. We dont need that old CO-OP system that worked fecking every time.
I mean look at all the people playing CO-OPs every night.
Luthier says its staying as it is. :rolleyes:
Bewolf
01-03-2012, 06:25 AM
You are wrong, its perfect the way it is. We dont need that old CO-OP system that worked fecking every time.
I mean look at all the people playing CO-OPs every night.
Luthier says its staying as it is. :rolleyes:
I've never been a huge fan of the old Co Op system. It always had a "staged" feeling to it, utterly artifical. I see the benefits in regards to online wars, but it still always reminded of a more Call of Duty style system then anything else, with the sole exception being "dead stays dead", or simply a football tournament. There must be better, more dynamic and immersive ways of conducting squad style combat without relying to a rather static and outdated system that requires pilots to wait for ages until a new mission was set up for running. I am seriously wondering ppl stick to this system just because they lack the imagination to get something better implemented by themseves or the Devs providing a more natural feel for historic airware.
KG26_Alpha
01-03-2012, 07:25 AM
I've never been a huge fan of the old Co Op system. It always had a "staged" feeling to it, utterly artifical. I see the benefits in regards to online wars, but it still always reminded of a more Call of Duty style system then anything else, with the sole exception being "dead stays dead", or simply a football tournament. There must be better, more dynamic and immersive ways of conducting squad style combat without relying to a rather static and outdated system that requires pilots to wait for ages until a new mission was set up for running. I am seriously wondering ppl stick to this system just because they lack the imagination to get something better implemented by themseves or the Devs providing a more natural feel for historic airware.
The rest of the statements redundant.
furbs
01-03-2012, 05:53 PM
To be honest i think all of us dont care if its the old way or the new way just as long as its simple and works.
JG52Krupi
01-03-2012, 05:58 PM
To be honest i think all of us dont care if its the old way or the new way just as long as its simple and works.
Yes, we only mention the "old way" as its better than what we currently have (i.e. Nothing :P) so if they can improve it then of course we want that, I would have thought it would have gone without saying...!!!!
JG53Frankyboy
01-03-2012, 06:40 PM
in the high times of IL2 coop onlinewar flying, the waitingtimes in the Hyperlobby slots were actually quite short very often.
one has to mention, 9 months after IL2 releasecthere was no online war running. it took its time to organizice them, and they improved a lot during the time. perhaps some can remember the manual reports in the debriefing screen in the first IOW :D
Open Coops were flown alot after release, BBury's Valley of Death anyone ;) But without the working Hyperlobby, all this would not have been possible. Il2 online playhad a lot of benefits because of a 3.party tool. cant imagine what would have happened without the HL.
The UBI.com lobby was crap, IIRC i was there once and than never again.
I will wait what the community is able to do online with this software in , lets say, 2 years after its release.....
in the moment the online possibilities of the software and the scenario of the BoB is boring for me.
sorak
01-03-2012, 10:05 PM
Imagine Hyperlobby never came to exist... The old method would be a giant pain in the ass.. dogfight or co - op
What we really need is to be able to have a first person perspective run around on foot addition so we can go hang out in the ready room and then have silly races to the parked aircraft Le Mans style :)
carguy_
01-04-2012, 03:10 PM
I've never been a huge fan of the old Co Op system. It always had a "staged" feeling to it, utterly artifical. I see the benefits in regards to online wars, but it still always reminded of a more Call of Duty style system then anything else, with the sole exception being "dead stays dead", or simply a football tournament. There must be better, more dynamic and immersive ways of conducting squad style combat without relying to a rather static and outdated system that requires pilots to wait for ages until a new mission was set up for running. I am seriously wondering ppl stick to this system just because they lack the imagination to get something better implemented by themseves or the Devs providing a more natural feel for historic airware.
I get it, but you must understand something.
I think that I can say for others, that it is not the same recipe as in 2008 we call for. Just as others have already mentioned, it is not really important how we implement it as long as we get a similar end result, with some of the CoD evolutionary features. And it is certainly better that what we have now - nothing.
I guess that df servers, scripted, non scripted and so on do have die hard fans. So do generic coops and online war type coops. IMO we should not say which is better. The thing is, df server fans have something similar to their liking, whereas coop fans have nothing.
And yes, the "staged feeling" is right, because it was staged to some point. Eventually, most of the players taking part in coop mision would end up in one combat area, beating the crap out of each others. However, all of them started their flight at the same moment, all of them had only one life. I`m not using the term "game of chess" for nothing here. Both sides made their moves accordingly to what combat situation looked like.
That is about it for generic coops. Now online wars.
At least two combat areas, evevn 110km separated from each others. Few types of player flights, including the light fighter squad, heavy fighter squad, bomber/ground support/resources flight. All of them starting at the same time. Now depending on what possibilities the VOW/VEF/IOW/BW site gave the sides - players ended up with adequate planes to their situation. If you botched your Li-2 escort and they got shot down, you had short or no tanks to take ground or planes to support them from the air in the next mission. Sometimes for that sole reason, reds had to put up T-34 against Tigers, or IL2 flight did not have an escort. The variants were numerous.
I had to fly many missions where out of bad resources, the Luftwaffe side had to use Emils in 1942 campaign, as fighter support. In other missions the reds flying Romanian, used Bf109 against blue German 109.
Big formations flown by players only, supported by AI, were a normal sight as non squad lone wulfs always got quickly shot down. The red side often made deception flights only to misguide enemy escort flights. Li2 flights changed routes and so on.
All this binded by every players` career,stats and mission reports featured on the online war site. Both sides in time developped their own heroes - players with the most downs, that lived throught entire campaigns. This ofcourse led to recognizing of the best online squadrons that took part in coops. One can easily say that an entire community gathered around coops, more specifically online wars.
IF we can recreate this using different tools than by all means let it happen.
And last but not least, it always mattered if you nursed your damaged plane rtb for repair. It always mattered if you managed to survive.
The one funny coincidence was that airquake flyers could rarely take the difficulty of escorting an IL2 flight with I16, against the 109g2 flight.
HR_Naglfar
01-04-2012, 03:58 PM
I get it, but you must understand something.
IF we can recreate this using different tools than by all means let it happen.
Yes, we can recreate this and much more with the current system. The old coop system isn't needed anymore to make online wars.
furbs
01-04-2012, 04:31 PM
Brilliant! so when do we start?
robtek
01-04-2012, 04:54 PM
Of course when someone, as it was in the old il2, writes the necessary scripts.
furbs
01-04-2012, 05:40 PM
Well if its as easy as that....who needs simple CO-OPs that could be made and played in about 15 mins by anyone.
Robtek, can you write some CO-OPs for me then?
I need about 12 for starters to sort some sqd training...you know mixed combat, ground pounding and escort missions, 12 vs 12, 6 vs 6, 2 vs 2 you know dead simple to do.
Then later some more complex stuff for higher level training.
PM me when you have got that sorted.
Cheers buddy!
CO-OPs and online wars here we go!
JG52Uther
01-04-2012, 05:40 PM
OK so as it was usually the Russian community that came up with the online coop wars whats the news from there? Online coop wars are huge in the Russian community.
I doubt I'm alone in thinking we would be playing a massive BoB online war by now.
Strange that we are not if its all so easy.
JG53Frankyboy
01-04-2012, 05:45 PM
the first ones, IOW and VEF (realy ancient times :) ) were founded by a german respectivly by an english guy ;)
JG52Uther
01-04-2012, 05:52 PM
Well thats why I said usually! ;)
ACE-OF-ACES
01-04-2012, 05:53 PM
Yes, we can recreate this and much more with the current system. The old coop system isn't needed anymore to make online wars.
Agreed..
The problem is the bar has been raised..
That is to say some of the people who were able to clear the bar in IL-2 can not clear the bar in CoD
The bar level being C#
Thus those who know C# can do amazing things in CoD that could not be done in IL-2.. But now the pool of people making missions (coops) is much smaller
It is a give and take.. It is too bad 1C did not have the time and money to offer both the old and the new.. Maybe someday they will?
But if I had to choose between having the old IL-2 FMB in CoD or the new CoD FMB I would choose the later.. Because being able to do more is allways better imho.. Granted it will be slow at first, as some get up to speed with C#, but in a year or two once we start seeing all the neat things being done that could not be done with the old system.. This rocky slow start will be but a faint memory imho
JG53Frankyboy
01-04-2012, 05:59 PM
indeed, we will see.
addman
01-04-2012, 06:04 PM
Agreed..
The problem is the bar has been raised..
That is to say some of the people who were able to clear the bar in IL-2 can not clear the bar in CoD
The bar level being C#
Thus those who know C# can do amazing things in CoD that could not be done in IL-2.. But now the pool of people making missions (coops) is much smaller
It is a give and take.. It is too bad 1C did not have the time and money to offer both the old and the new.. Maybe someday they will?
But if I had to choose between having the old IL-2 FMB in CoD or the new CoD FMB I would choose the later.. Because being able to do more is allways better imho.. Granted it will be slow at first, as some get up to speed with C#, but in a year or two once we start seeing all the neat things being done that could not be done with the old system.. This rocky slow start will be but a faint memory imho
Oh yes, thank god they simplified making coop missions by now having to use C#. It's so much easier than before, everybody's doing it! To think that the game has to be good enough four us, oh lol, it's we that have to be good enough for the game, of course! They should have sent a "C# Programming for dummies" with the game instead of an FMB manual...oh wait! there isn't any FMB manual, how silly of me.:grin: Sorry, couldn't restrain myself.
Tree_UK
01-04-2012, 06:11 PM
We are so lucky in having our own expert in AOA on these forums though, Im sure he can knock out some COOP's in no time at all. See Im all postive now, I didn't realise that the game was just an empty box and we had to build it ourselves, lets get organised, Aces your a programming expert where do we start??
Chivas
01-04-2012, 06:14 PM
I agree coding expertise has delayed major mission building, but also documentation and game engine optimizations need to be completed before COD will really fly. Hopefully the next patch will optimize the game engine enough that more people with the necessary coding expertise will want to become involved in major mission building. If the new series does survive long enough for optimizations, documentation, and SDK the community can take over, but at a much slower pace than if the developers were still involved.
Tree_UK
01-04-2012, 07:03 PM
Hopefully the next patch will optimize the game engine enough .
Now where have we heard that before? Seriously 9 months on and we are still hoping. I admire your faith lads truly i do, mine had gone completely before release :grin::grin:
jimbop
01-04-2012, 07:23 PM
You guys would be aware of this thread?
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=376147#post376147
EAF331 Starfire
01-04-2012, 07:46 PM
My 2 cents...
COOP in COD are still nothing than a DF server with COOP interface. The inability to to halt the mission time and read the briefings before the time starts.
I tried the "Idle" trick and made a recording; It showed that when the server is started the aircraft more or less fell from the skies. A/C and TIME was not frozen.
I read the complain about the feeling of mission being scripted with COOP. But this is excatly the feeling I want when I do my training missions. Mission were my pilots starts in the middle of the action so we can train the same subject again or again in order to make it muscle memory. Somthing we use a lot in EAF. This feature saves a lot of time.
I would love to do it the old fasion way as they do it in the USN, USAF or USMC but none of my pilots get paid to use real fuel in a real live aircraft. Which is why I want the old style COOP back. It would also make it easier and more temting for the SEOW folkes to adopt the SEOW campaign for COD.
BTW I would like to thanks the SEOW and HSFX folkes for their work all those years :cool:
IamNotDavid
01-04-2012, 08:27 PM
Now where have we heard that before? Seriously 9 months on and we are still hoping. I admire your faith lads truly i do, mine had gone completely before release :grin::grin:
And yet you're still here... :grin::grin:
Blackdog_kt
01-04-2012, 08:30 PM
First of all, let's not get confrontational among ourselves over something that is not directly in our hands. ;)
With that being said,
in the high times of IL2 coop onlinewar flying, the waitingtimes in the Hyperlobby slots were actually quite short very often.
one has to mention, 9 months after IL2 releasecthere was no online war running. it took its time to organizice them, and they improved a lot during the time. perhaps some can remember the manual reports in the debriefing screen in the first IOW :D
Open Coops were flown alot after release, BBury's Valley of Death anyone ;) But without the working Hyperlobby, all this would not have been possible. Il2 online playhad a lot of benefits because of a 3.party tool. cant imagine what would have happened without the HL.
The UBI.com lobby was crap, IIRC i was there once and than never again.
I will wait what the community is able to do online with this software in , lets say, 2 years after its release.....
in the moment the online possibilities of the software and the scenario of the BoB is boring for me.
Pretty sound arguments. A lot of people are expecting a newly released sim with not much in the way of 3rd party tools yet, to be what IL2 was after a couple of years of 3rd party involvement.
I'm not much of an onliner and mostly used Coops to train a mate who was returning to flight sims. When i wanted to fly online i always joined one of the objective based DF servers to get the best of both worlds: there is a mission to win and tasks to achieve, but there's also enough fluidity to ensure unpredictability and no waiting times.
I think the only thing needed for CoD is two switches: synchronise spawn times and no respawn. Then whatever we have will be able to work like an old-style coop which to be truly honest, would be most beneficial for arranged squad matches and squad training.
For an on-going online campaign with some sense of dynamic nature built in, the old coop interface is a bit long in the tooth frankly, as it would miss the opportunity to use certain appealing capabilities of the new engine.
Slapping up a quick and dirty training scenario for training people? Perfect. Making detailed scenarios that want to ensure the players follow a specified mission plan? Perfect. Making an online war? Workable but far from what can be actually implemented.
Mind you, i'm not saying the coop interface is not needed. What i'm saying is that sticking to it will limit the things we can do in the long run. It is needed, but mostly to bridge the gap until we get the really cool stuff happening.
Long term, i'd rather prefer a situation where a supply system is implemented (this means scripting), so that hitting targets has an effect on the enemy's ability to fight back. Then, depending on difficulty settings we could have respawns, limited respawns, no respawns or even virtual lives (eg, resettable stats and a counter on how many lives a player went through during the current campaign).
Even more, we could limit the ability of players to switch sides and even positions in a multi-crew aircraft. That's the reason these features exist in the difficulty options.
If i was running a more relaxed campaign i could allow people to come and go as they please. If i was running a more regulated campaign, i would have people register for a certain team for the entirety of the campaign through the server's forums, so that they can't get intel by simply joining the other team. Then i would have two sub-forums, one for each team, where they could plan their actions and operations without the other side having access to them.
This way (especially if dynamic/moving targets were scripted) players would have to actually fly recon/armed recon sorties to locate targets, instead of briefly hopping to the other team, taking off and making notes of the defences for the airfield they spawned at, switch back to their own team and plan a sortie to attack it.
If we wanted to take this further, we could even make it so that players sign up for a specific task or squadron for the entire campaign (eg, fighters or bombers), or even a specific crew position for the really hardcore crowd (like flying the entire campaign as a bombardier).
What this would need is a forum interface where the players sign up for their preferred team/task/etc and a parser adding that information into a script that controls what the players are allowed to do when actually connecting to the server.
The possibilities are endless and i thought up most of it within a week of release, just by looking at the difficulty options and wondering "now why would they have an option to limit this and that?".
Have some imagination people, we just have to wait for scripting to evolve or the SDK and manuals to be released. ;)
The good thing is that since i'm now studying computing i'm getting to grips with how objective oriented programming works and C# is pretty similar in structure to most of the OOP languages. The bad thing is that it won't be before summer that i'll have the time to possibly sit down and code something :-P
The best thing is that we already have people working on it, see Jimbop's link:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28559
EAF331 Starfire
01-04-2012, 08:40 PM
And yet you're still here... :grin::grin:
Well, I bought the game. Used a lot of time in the FMB. Flown a bit.
Right now I am looking to see how long I should wait before I buy a new grafics solution. My GTX260 will barely give me 29fps in COD.
Keeping a thread in mind is a way of telling that there still are a need for a specific change.
The reaction from the staff here are helping me judge how urgent such a purchase is ;)
EAF331 Starfire
01-04-2012, 08:42 PM
but I do look forward to the next release for IL-2 :grin:
ACE-OF-ACES
01-04-2012, 08:42 PM
Oh yes, thank god they simplified making coop missions by now having to use C#. It's so much easier than before, everybody's doing it! To think that the game has to be good enough four us, oh lol, it's we that have to be good enough for the game, of course! They should have sent a "C# Programming for dummies" with the game instead of an FMB manual...oh wait! there isn't any FMB manual, how silly of me.:grin: Sorry, couldn't restrain myself.
Where did you get the impression I or anyone else said it was simpler?
The point I made and the point you missed is mission making is going to be harder due to C#
I thought I made it pretty clear when I said the bar was raised? Guess not
The other point I made and the point you missed is those who can make mission using C# are going to be able to make far better and more realistic missions
That is the give and take I was referring too when I said it is a give and take
Long story short, the more powerful the mission maker the more complex it is going to be!
At least 1C went with a popular language like C# over some of the other flight sims like DCS that went with luna..
Funny thing is..
If 1C didn't change a thing in the FMB, as in didn't give us anymore control/options all these threads whining about it being harder to make missions now would be replaced by threads whining about not having anymore control to make missions than they had in IL-2
Poor 1C.. Dammed if you do, Dammed if you don't
ACE-OF-ACES
01-04-2012, 08:45 PM
We are so lucky in having our own expert in AOA on these forums
Geee thanks Tree! That means alot comming from you! So much that I think Ill update my sig! S!
ACE-OF-ACES
01-04-2012, 08:49 PM
Mind you, i'm not saying the coop interface is not needed. What i'm saying is that sticking to it will limit the things we can do in the long run. It is needed, but mostly to bridge the gap until we get the really cool stuff happening.
Ageed 100%
Tree_UK
01-04-2012, 09:11 PM
Geee thanks Tree! That means alot comming from you! So much that I think Ill update my sig! S!
No problem buddy, we are lucky to have you and this fantastic game. :grin::grin:
ACE-OF-ACES
01-04-2012, 09:19 PM
No problem buddy, we are lucky to have you and this fantastic game. :grin::grin:
No thank you!!
IamNotDavid
01-04-2012, 09:22 PM
No problem buddy, we are lucky to have you and this fantastic game. :grin::grin:
I think the game is even more lucky to have your continued support. They keep kicking you out, and you keep coming back to support it even more! I am inspired by you.
Ataros
01-04-2012, 09:26 PM
Thus those who know C# can do amazing things in CoD that could not be done in IL-2.. But now the pool of people making missions (coops) is much smaller
C# is not needed to create a coop mission. Banks did everything for us already. What is needed is to copy Banks' files to your HD, load game, open Banks' lobby and open any offline mission (from any campaign or single player) via it. This allows to play this offline mission as coop.
Recent version allows running several coops at the same time (that was not possible in Il-2 and is much more closer to IRL airwar). Worth coping here
I've completely rewritten most of the code in the last days and not all features are completed so far. However this is that the next release will feature:
- It allows to run several missions at the same time. Players first select the mission and then one of the aircraft of the mission.
- When a new mission is initiated by the host the aircraft of the missions are preloaded, this means they are idle and without fuel on the airfield (aircraft with air start are spawned on a random airfield, aircraft that spawn by script are also spawned). When a player selects an aircraft he is placed in the preloaded aircraft. This allows him to read the briefing.
- When one of the preloaded missions is started the preloaded aircraft are removed and the mission is loaded. The players are placed into the preselected aircraft. Of course aircraft with air start are supported. Also aircraft that spawn delayed by script are supported, the players are placed as soon as the aircraft is spawned.
- Players can select missions that are pending (the mission is only preloaded) and running (the mission normally loaded). This allows players to jump into a mission that is already in progress because they were late or to continue a mission after a game crash.
I will also include a automatism that allows to run a dedicated server that loads for example to preload a random mission from a folder every 15 minute and starts the mission after 15minutes. So you have always several missions in progress and one mission that is pending.
This system can also run on top of any "dogfight" server (some players dogfight and others fly coops in the same airspace).
ACE-OF-ACES
01-04-2012, 09:30 PM
C# is not needed to create a coop mission. Banks did everything for us already. What is needed is to copy Banks' files to your HD, load game, open Banks' lobby and open any offline mission (from any campaign or single player) via it. This allows to play this offline mission as coop.
You know that..
And I know that..
But some of the nay-sayiers refuse to know that..
That or they don't know how to copy Banks files to thier HD! ;)
Chivas
01-04-2012, 09:30 PM
Now where have we heard that before? Seriously 9 months on and we are still hoping. I admire your faith lads truly i do, mine had gone completely before release :grin::grin:
Now if that were true hopefully you would left along time ago. ;)
HR_Naglfar
01-04-2012, 10:29 PM
Have some imagination people, we just have to wait for scripting to evolve or the SDK and manuals to be released. ;)
This.
Unfortunately the people here seems to lack a lot of imagination and patience :rolleyes:
furbs
01-04-2012, 10:35 PM
C# is not needed to create a coop mission. Banks did everything for us already. What is needed is to copy Banks' files to your HD, load game, open Banks' lobby and open any offline mission (from any campaign or single player) via it. This allows to play this offline mission as coop.
Recent version allows running several coops at the same time (that was not possible in Il-2 and is much more closer to IRL airwar). Worth coping here
This system can also run on top of any "dogfight" server (some players dogfight and others fly coops in the same airspace).
----------------------------------------------
One more time for old times sake...
THEN WHY IS THERE NO BLEEDIN CO-OPS BEING PLAYED? IL TELL YOU WHY, BECAUSE THE SYSTEM DOESNT WORK!!
Are you saying that somewhere back in development history they said "i know, you know that old style CO-OP that worked 100%...lets swap it for all sorts of cool stuff that nobody will use because you need to learn C+ to do anything...oh and lets not provide any manual or documents as well for at least 8 months"
You need to learn C+ to make CO-OPs? are you fecking metal??
THERE ARE NO PUBLIC CO-OPS BEING PLAYED BY ANYONE AFTER 8 MONTHS!!! DO YOU UNDERSTAND, ITS NOT WORKING!!!
---rant over--- :grin: needed that.
HR_Naglfar
01-04-2012, 11:13 PM
THEN WHY IS THERE NO BLEEDIN CO-OPS BEING PLAYED? IL TELL YOU WHY, BECAUSE THE SYSTEM DOESNT WORK!!
May be because of the memory leak problems that the game have right now, wich can cause a crash just before dropping bombs, or even better, just before landing after a completely succesfull mission :mrgreen:
Are you saying that somewhere back in development history they said "i know, you know that old style CO-OP that worked 100%...lets swap it for all sorts of cool stuff that nobody will use because you need to learn C+ to do anything...oh and lets not provide any manual or documents as well for at least 8 months"
Just because you can't do anything with the scripts doesn't mean that nobody can and nobody use the script system.
I think that the decision to include it was the best decision they ever make with this game.
You need to learn C+ to make CO-OPs? are you fecking metal??
You don't need to learn C# (CoD use C# for scripts, not C+) to make coops. You just have to use a script made by other people (the one made by Banks for example), wich is a very simple thing to do.
THERE ARE NO PUBLIC CO-OPS BEING PLAYED BY ANYONE AFTER 8 MONTHS!!! DO YOU UNDERSTAND, ITS NOT WORKING!!!
As I said, there are other problems more serious than the lack of an old coop system.
But anyway that's false. E69 played recently a public coop, and I think that they had more problems with the crashes than with the CoD online system.
jimbop
01-04-2012, 11:25 PM
Yes, I doubt coops will take off (pun intended!) until the CTD issues are resolved. This was interesting from the guy who runs the ATAG server:
"Hopefully we'll get a patch out soon, so we can include some of the other missions we've made that are more focused to the formation/bomber flights/ground pounding. Just in the current situation of the game, it's not worth running until the launcher issues are sorted.."
From here (http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?926-Mission-on-the-second-server&p=6633&viewfull=1#post6633). I can't wait for these types of missions but agree there's not much point starting them until people can reliably take off, fly a decent length mission and land again without crashing. Hopefully the next patch sorts out the memory leak.
Blackdog_kt
01-05-2012, 01:49 AM
I can understand the frustration, but keep the "fighting" in check please.
Also, try the solution/workaround/whatever before you deem it not working, if you haven't already done so. If you have tried it and it didn't work, post in the relevant thread (eg, the one where Banks released his co-op tool) and ask for help.
In short, use proper forum etiquette like the reasonable beings you are, instead of getting worked up just for the sake of getting worked up. Or else the moderating team will also start to get worked up and do a thread clean-up. Just saying :-P
Ataros
01-05-2012, 09:26 AM
----------------------------------------------
One more time for old times sake...
THEN WHY IS THERE NO BLEEDIN CO-OPS BEING PLAYED? IL TELL YOU WHY, BECAUSE THE SYSTEM DOESNT WORK!!
Are you saying that somewhere back in development history they said "i know, you know that old style CO-OP that worked 100%...lets swap it for all sorts of cool stuff that nobody will use because you need to learn C+ to do anything...oh and lets not provide any manual or documents as well for at least 8 months"
You need to learn C+ to make CO-OPs? are you fecking metal??
THERE ARE NO PUBLIC CO-OPS BEING PLAYED BY ANYONE AFTER 8 MONTHS!!! DO YOU UNDERSTAND, ITS NOT WORKING!!!
---rant over--- :grin: needed that.
Sorry, my English is not good enough and maybe you misunderstood my message you quoted.
C# knowledge is not needed to a user to create and fly coops.
You should distinguish between 2 systems: stock CloD and Banks' ones. The latest one works. It is not 100% ready yet and many players do not know about it yet plus launcher crashes = not many coops till now.
If you are trying to prove that stock CloD coop system does not work I do not understand your motivation. 1st, everyone knows this except for Luthier and BlackSix (e.g. my post http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=372492&postcount=25 looks like you missed it). 2nd, proving this to us does not lead you to anything at all. "DO YOU UNDERSTAND, ITS NOT WORKING!!!" So what? Does it bring you any results or improvements? It gives you nothing. It would be much more fruitful to test and write about Banks' script that you do not do because you have no interest in coops. Otherwise you would have tested it already.
3rd, if you want to persuade Luthier and B6, it would be more efficient to do it here http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28341 or in bugreports/updates threads if you really want to be helpful because they do not read all threads.
---rant over--- :grin: needed that.
No offence intended but if your own psychological benefits is the only reason for you posting here, isn't it called trolling and prohibited by forum rules? What do your posts bring to the community table? Any new help, solutions, knowledge? Can you handle your frustration without sharing it on the forums and instead bring in something positive emotionally helping others who are more frustrated than you are (there are some girls lurking around btw)? Isn't that what men do or is it you and 2-3 other people here who every day needs a hug more than others? We can give you a hug and share your pain, you are welcome. The system is not working, CloD is not Il-2, Softclub is not MG, Luthier is not Oleg, you can not expect German quality from a Russian company unless it is run by a soviet-school aviation engineer obsessed with perfectionism. Hope it helps :)
JG52Krupi
01-05-2012, 09:43 AM
To be fair Furbs you are starting to troll on this Co-op thread, everyone here agrees that we need a co-op and until we get one Banks and others have apparently put a lot of time and effort into bringing us an unofficial version.
I have yet to try it but will give it a go this weekend, in fact Farber invited me to join a co-op someone was running the other day but I was too busy :(.
Thanks for everyone that made the co-op possible hopefully at some point it will be official implemented.
Nitrous
01-05-2012, 03:11 PM
Banks=Star.
furbs
01-05-2012, 04:41 PM
No offence intended but if your own psychological benefits is the only reason for you posting here, isn't it called trolling and prohibited by forum rules? What do your posts bring to the community table? Any new help, solutions, knowledge? Can you handle your frustration without sharing it on the forums and instead bring in something positive emotionally helping others who are more frustrated than you are (there are some girls lurking around btw)? Isn't that what men do or is it you and 2-3 other people here who every day needs a hug more than others? We can give you a hug and share your pain, you are welcome. The system is not working, CloD is not Il-2, Softclub is not MG, Luthier is not Oleg, you can not expect German quality from a Russian company unless it is run by a soviet-school aviation engineer obsessed with perfectionism. Hope it helps :)
No i dont post here for any psychological benefit, my GF might agree with you and i get all the hugs from her i need, though thanks for the offer cheers. :)
Im just annoyed at something that would help CLOD so much is not working. maybe iam expecting to much?
Tree_UK
01-05-2012, 04:43 PM
No i dont post here for any psychological benefit, my GF might agree with you and i get all the hugs from her i need, though thanks for the offer cheers. :)
Im just annoyed at something that would help CLOD so much is not working. maybe iam expecting to much?
For things to work in CLOD you have to wait for a few years, remember nothing worked in the original IL2 for at least 3 years.......
Blackdog_kt
01-05-2012, 08:12 PM
Here we go again with the sweeping generalizations.
The truth is, some things worked in IL2 from the start and some were implemented at a later date by the community.
It's the same thing with CoD, but due to the increased amount of features there's an increased amount of bug fixing to do as well.
It's the same with other sims too, some things take time. RoF anyone? It took 18 months or so before it really took off and that's a much more limited engine in terms of how much objects it can handle and what you can do for dynamic mission environments. Heck, last time i checked it when it went free to play, they were revamping the visibility range to be more than a couple of kilometers because up till that point performance didn't allow it and thus, people couldn't really boom and zoom because they couldn't see their targets. SLI/Xfire took quite a while to implement as well, shimmering ground textures at long range also, etc, etc. Oh, and all guns had the same ballistic characteristics (don't know if they changed that). Why? Because a small company tried to make a complex game, because big companies don't make games for this genre.
It's easy to think we are the only ones being slighted here in CoD land, when in fact the way things go is pretty straightforward in software development: the amount of bugs is proportional to the complexity of features and inversely proportional to the amount of people and money you have to throw at the problem.
It's also easy to look back on a 10 year old series that has been tweaked and modded to kingdom come and expect that kind of quality standard as a given, completely forgetting that it took 10 years to reach that stage.
On a side note, how many were there for the very first release of IL2 back in 2001?Does anyone remember that none of the LW planes had mine-shells?
Or that the sim was so hard on the CPU that to cut down on DM and ballistics calculations only the tracers were accounted for, giving an advantage to the Russian machine guns with their higher tracer frequency?
Or that we only had canned campaigns and you couldn't progress until you got the "mission accomplished" message because there wasn't a difficulty option to set the "no instant success" parameter?
Or that in all campaign missions with level bombers, your flight of, let's say, 111s would get a task to bomb a truck convoy yet the flight altitude was set at 5km, you couldn't see the targets due to the rendering limitations, the AI leader wouldn't aim bombs for you and then they would all start dive bombing from 5km, release at 3km or so and score direct hits and you would go all "wtf? how is that possible in a realistic scenario?"
Or that, due to the fact it was designed as a low-altitude, ground pounding sim, there was no high altitude atmosphere model to speak of, giving all sorts of FM problems?
Or that without a 3rd party tool (Hyperlobby), its multiplayer would be dead in the water?
Do you really want me to continue? A lot, most in fact, of those things were corrected, some by the developers and some by the community, but it took three things:
1) time
2) a positive attitude
3) rolling up one's sleeves and doing something about it, instead of just crying "gimme" constantly
I remember very well. Things were not all rosy back then either, the only thing that's rosy is your nostalgic glasses people.
When the population of this forum learns to present opinions and not strawmen designed simply for the purpose of winning points in a forum argument, maybe we'll get somewhere. ;)
ACE-OF-ACES
01-05-2012, 09:13 PM
three things:
1) time
2) a positive attitude
3) rolling up one's sleeves and doing something about it, instead of just crying "gimme" constantly
Bingo
Chivas
01-05-2012, 10:33 PM
Here we go again with the sweeping generalizations.
The truth is, some things worked in IL2 from the start and some were implemented at a later date by the community.
It's the same thing with CoD, but due to the increased amount of features there's an increased amount of bug fixing to do as well.
It's the same with other sims too, some things take time. RoF anyone? It took 18 months or so before it really took off and that's a much more limited engine in terms of how much objects it can handle and what you can do for dynamic mission environments. Heck, last time i checked it when it went free to play, they were revamping the visibility range to be more than a couple of kilometers because up till that point performance didn't allow it and thus, people couldn't really boom and zoom because they couldn't see their targets. SLI/Xfire took quite a while to implement as well, shimmering ground textures at long range also, etc, etc. Oh, and all guns had the same ballistic characteristics (don't know if they changed that). Why? Because a small company tried to make a complex game, because big companies don't make games for this genre.
It's easy to think we are the only ones being slighted here in CoD land, when in fact the way things go is pretty straightforward in software development: the amount of bugs is proportional to the complexity of features and inversely proportional to the amount of people and money you have to throw at the problem.
It's also easy to look back on a 10 year old series that has been tweaked and modded to kingdom come and expect that kind of quality standard as a given, completely forgetting that it took 10 years to reach that stage.
On a side note, how many were there for the very first release of IL2 back in 2001?Does anyone remember that none of the LW planes had mine-shells?
Or that the sim was so hard on the CPU that to cut down on DM and ballistics calculations only the tracers were accounted for, giving an advantage to the Russian machine guns with their higher tracer frequency?
Or that we only had canned campaigns and you couldn't progress until you got the "mission accomplished" message because there wasn't a difficulty option to set the "no instant success" parameter?
Or that in all campaign missions with level bombers, your flight of, let's say, 111s would get a task to bomb a truck convoy yet the flight altitude was set at 5km, you couldn't see the targets due to the rendering limitations, the AI leader wouldn't aim bombs for you and then they would all start dive bombing from 5km, release at 3km or so and score direct hits and you would go all "wtf? how is that possible in a realistic scenario?"
Or that, due to the fact it was designed as a low-altitude, ground pounding sim, there was no high altitude atmosphere model to speak of, giving all sorts of FM problems?
Or that without a 3rd party tool (Hyperlobby), its multiplayer would be dead in the water?
Do you really want me to continue? A lot, most in fact, of those things were corrected, some by the developers and some by the community, but it took three things:
1) time
2) a positive attitude
3) rolling up one's sleeves and doing something about it, instead of just crying "gimme" constantly
I remember very well. Things were not all rosy back then either, the only thing that's rosy is your nostalgic glasses people.
When the population of this forum learns to present opinions and not strawmen designed simply for the purpose of winning points in a forum argument, maybe we'll get somewhere. ;)
Excellent Post
Madfish
01-05-2012, 10:54 PM
Now that so many moderators (counted at least 2) take part in the debate what about this as a first step in the right direction:
[...]
My suggestion:
developers could provide a sticky detailing their view on how the co-op's should be done in the game now and providing some great code snippets and links to documentation to help the community using the new style co-op's ;)
developers / moderators could create a sub-forum under the "CoD Multiplayer" or "FMB, Mission & Campaign builder Discussions" board called "Co-Op".
moderators could maintain a sticky post providing a list with co-op maps, documentation etc.
regulars could describe specific scenarios and tell about how they would envision the co-op to work, eventually this can be solved already and if not it could be seen and discussed as a suggestion eventually
experts in coding could provide their code snippets
expert map makers could post tutorials on which code snips they used and how. videos or pictured and detailed posts would be easy to understand.
everyone could visit the forum and either get into mapping or try and play the co-op missions provided by the community.
[...]
Force10
01-06-2012, 01:43 AM
Blackdog has a good memory of the bugs in the original IL-2 and I don't dispute that. For me, this is the difference between the 2:
Average critic score for launch version IL-2 2001: 9.2 (editors choice)
Average critic score for COD: 6.0
There are showstopper bugs and their are annoying bugs that you can still enjoy a sim with. It is 8 months later and I still don't have a singleplayer experience I can enjoy. I don't think that was really the case with the oirginal IL-2. Both sims were released with ground breaking stuff, it's just that COD can't be enjoyed by an offline player yet.
FS~Phat
01-06-2012, 02:11 AM
Blackdog has a good memory of the bugs in the original IL-2 and I don't dispute that. For me, this is the difference between the 2:
Average critic score for launch version IL-2 2001: 9.2 (editors choice)
Average critic score for COD: 6.0
There are showstopper bugs and their are annoying bugs that you can still enjoy a sim with. It is 8 months later and I still don't have a singleplayer experience I can enjoy. I don't think that was really the case with the oirginal IL-2. Both sims were released with ground breaking stuff, it's just that COD can't be enjoyed by an offline player yet.
That's a pretty broad statement. Like to back it up with some facts and constructive input for a change?
I have a great time in both single-player and multi-player (including campaign - ok so its not dynamic but its not that bad!) I never experience a lot of the issues some of you guys seem to suffer and I have a much more complex rig where if something wasnt going to work, I'd be the one more likely to suffer problems.
What specific things are you referring to? Many many many bugs have been fixed since the initial release but I dont see any that are show stoppers now or I wouldn't be playing it! I myself shelved it for a couple months until the last couple patches which addressed the majority of the big issues.
Here's your chance to possibly get some help with things your struggling with in the game. Maybe we can help each other a bit more instead of complaining all the time.
I warn you though if its just another general broad sweeping whine post it will go straight in the bin.
How can we help you?
PS. FYI I just played online for 1hr on ATAG Axis vs Allies (20 players online) did 4 sorties and shot down 2 109s and a bomber without a single crash or bug rearing its head. Loving it!
Also noticed my system crept up from 8GB ram usage to 9.4GB ram of my 24GB while in game so it might help some of you to have at least 8GB of ram and maybe even 12GB.
Force10
01-06-2012, 05:01 AM
That's a pretty broad statement. Like to back it up with some facts and constructive input for a change?
I have a great time in both single-player and multi-player (including campaign - ok so its not dynamic but its not that bad!) I never experience a lot of the issues some of you guys seem to suffer and I have a much more complex rig where if something wasnt going to work, I'd be the one more likely to suffer problems.
What specific things are you referring to? Many many many bugs have been fixed since the initial release but I dont see any that are show stoppers now or I wouldn't be playing it! I myself shelved it for a couple months until the last couple patches which addressed the majority of the big issues.
Here's your chance to possibly get some help with things your struggling with in the game. Maybe we can help each other a bit more instead of complaining all the time.
I warn you though if its just another general broad sweeping whine post it will go straight in the bin.
How can we help you?
PS. FYI I just played online for 1hr on ATAG Axis vs Allies (20 players online) did 4 sorties and shot down 2 109s and a bomber without a single crash or bug rearing its head. Loving it!
Also noticed my system crept up from 8GB ram usage to 9.4GB ram of my 24GB while in game so it might help some of you to have at least 8GB of ram and maybe even 12GB.
Well, your kinda tying my hands here. My problems with the single player game are the same as everyone else that has posted issues. If I can't mention AI, FM, DM, working radio comms, anti aliasing etc. then your not really being fair, but all of those things together make the single player portion pretty much no fun. I actually think this is one of the points most of the folks here agree on. Right now, I fly COD as a civilian flight sim, I take a plane up and enjoy the cockpit and the feeling of flight for a little bit, but this sim was marketed as a combat flight sim. I go into the QMB and set up a 1 on 1 dogfight, get on the bandit's tail and as soon as I put a round or two in him, he starts barrel rolling like a pinwheel, and doing unrealistic moves and the fun is over. Again, this has been mentioned before and you might see it as a broad sweeping whine, but that doesn't mean it's not true and doesn't kill the experience.
I appreciate the tip on memory, but my issues are content related, not performance. COD runs very well on my rig after the last patch so I have no complaints there. My post that you are objecting to wasn't meant to be a generic "whine" but more of a disagreement with someone insinuating that the original IL-2 release is basically a mirror image of COD's release. I know Oleg is long gone, but I think it's a discredit to what he achieved by saying that the two are compareable like that.
furbs
01-06-2012, 06:07 AM
heres a few reviews of IL2 when it was first released...
Combatsim TOPPICK!! A instant classic! http://www.combatsim.com/memb123/htm/2001/12/il2-rev/
Gamespot uk 9.2! http://uk.gamespot.com/il-2-sturmovik/reviews/il-2-sturmovik-review-2829773
IGN great! 8.2 http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/165/165150p1.html
Il2 had great reviews despite its bugs, i know i played the heck out of it for almost 2 years solid and had a fantastic time both online and off.
I dont think i need to post reviews of CLOD, the one we held here had was about 56% i think.
Yes im being negative, im sorry but i spent 1500 quid on this PC to play CLOD after i was told by Luthier that the bad performance was because of the lack of RAM at the Kiev show(thats when i ordered my parts).
I still cant play CLOD without a crash EVERY time i try and play.
some people payed 50 quid for this sim and after 8 long months almost none of the key features(not even going to talk about the missing ones) work 100%.
FM
DM
CEM
sound
Graphics
AI
those are the key features of a flightsim right?
None of them work as they should and some are so broken or off the mark its not worth calling them realistic for the planes they are superposed to represent.
Yes we can go and play airquake online with the 50 other people in the world playing CLOD right now but it gets old getting attacked on the runway because the AA is rubbish.
When i see post from the development team asking for help with the AI(really? they are supposed to have been working on the AI for 3 months already!!)...really?? they dont know what its supposed to do??? really?? they have had 10 years with IL2 right?? Oleg said the AI it would surpass IL2 by miles remember?
If you check back before release my posts were positive and full of praise for what i was seeing and hearing from Oleg and Luthier.
I spent weeks of my own time years ago to take over 200 pictures of pre-war houses, farms and buildings for this sim to help out back when i used to beta test stuff and like i say ive spent 1500 quid to have a PC to play CLOD so ive invested time and money in CLOD and im unhappy so far its far, far from what it said it would be.
When Luthier stops the delaying tactics and patch padding and something gets actually fixed and the sim stops crashing every 20 mins, then i will start to feel better and have a more positive attitude.
Its been 8 months, its not much to ask.
i hope this has been less of a rant. :) and gives people i idea of how i feel.(as if you didn't know already!)
JG52Krupi
01-06-2012, 06:39 AM
I think quite a few people here spent £2000 to 3000 on there pc for this game I know I have, but given how much money I expect you have pumped into world of tanks I can't help but laugh when you mention the cost of the cod ;)
Furbs, I'm with ya brother. I really tried with it god help me I did.
But no matter how much duct tape you apply its still a broken toy, and as such not worth my time. When the game becomes functional in the key areas you listed above ill be back, until then there are plenty of superior competitors to keep us entertained.
Tree_UK
01-06-2012, 07:29 AM
Furbs, I'm with ya brother. I really tried with it god help me I did.
But no matter how much duct tape you apply its still a broken toy, and as such not worth my time. When the game becomes functional in the key areas you listed above ill be back, until then there are plenty of superior competitors to keep us entertained.
Yeah we know all that guys, but speaking the truth here only gets you a ban, I know i've done it many times, you just have to nod politley to all those who still believe in dragons.
Great post Furbs.
Skoshi Tiger
01-06-2012, 07:38 AM
Yeah we know all that guys, but speaking the truth here only gets you a ban, I know i've done it many times, you just have to nod politley to all those who still believe in dragons.
Great post Furbs.
Truth? You guys just can't handle the Truth!
wiki - "Various theories and views of truth continue to be debated among scholars and philosophers. There are differing claims on such questions as what constitutes truth; what things are truthbearers capable of being true or false; how to define and identify truth; the roles that revealed and acquired knowledge play; and whether truth is subjective or objective, relative or absolute.
"
I think it's something to do about men not wearing enough hats?
:) Happy new year and here's to a better 2012! :)
tintifaxl
01-06-2012, 07:40 AM
Well yesterday I and 2 of the squad mates tried to get a coop mission going. After 2 hours we gave up.
None of the coop-missions (1 from 1C, the others downloaded from airwarfare) were working. We managed to load the il2coop lobby mission though. But we never managed to actually fly a plane. Some launcher.exe crashes occured, too.
Verdict of the evening: It has to be a lot easier to get a coop going, before we will try again.
Chivas
01-06-2012, 07:45 AM
There is a huge difference between the original and the latest IL-2. One was released basicly finished with a few bugs, the other released atleast a year to soon. So of course one should receive better reviews than the other.
FS~Phat
01-06-2012, 08:00 AM
Well, your kinda tying my hands here. My problems with the single player game are the same as everyone else that has posted issues. If I can't mention AI, FM, DM, working radio comms, anti aliasing etc. then your not really being fair, but all of those things together make the single player portion pretty much no fun. I actually think this is one of the points most of the folks here agree on. Right now, I fly COD as a civilian flight sim, I take a plane up and enjoy the cockpit and the feeling of flight for a little bit, but this sim was marketed as a combat flight sim. I go into the QMB and set up a 1 on 1 dogfight, get on the bandit's tail and as soon as I put a round or two in him, he starts barrel rolling like a pinwheel, and doing unrealistic moves and the fun is over. Again, this has been mentioned before and you might see it as a broad sweeping whine, but that doesn't mean it's not true and doesn't kill the experience.
I appreciate the tip on memory, but my issues are content related, not performance. COD runs very well on my rig after the last patch so I have no complaints there. My post that you are objecting to wasn't meant to be a generic "whine" but more of a disagreement with someone insinuating that the original IL-2 release is basically a mirror image of COD's release. I know Oleg is long gone, but I think it's a discredit to what he achieved by saying that the two are compareable like that.
Look what your asking for is a full-real closed cockpit experience like IL2 which has had 10 years of development to get it right.
If you are looking for a full-real type experience in CoD you will have to wait until more of the minor bugs are ironed out to get the full experience.
Some consider the game airquake like in its current state but i dont agree. Even in full-real now its actually a lot harder to play than IL2 ever was.
Some CEM features are not working as intended but as I mostly fly Allies and in full manual CEM, I cant comment on how the CEM issues effect play for Axis, but I dont see a problem with full manual CEM in any Red planes I fly. From what I've read full manual CEM seems to be working for Axis planes, they just have some auto CEM issues like the spit used to have in the first release.
If you turn the AI down a notch from Ace they apparently stop the wild maneuvering. Not the perfect answer but it does the trick.
DM - yes it still has some issues but for the most part it is miles ahead of IL2.
I havent personally seen any DM problems in my last few weeks of offline or online play but I have obviously seen others post pics with some strange DM issues. It's not perfect but it doesnt spoil the fun for me.
FM - If you've been around a while you know the FM will get adjusted throughout the sims life, as new data or improvements to the FM engine get made. Sometimes it swings in the favor of Allies and sometimes Axis.
The FM needs improvement and is tweaked throughout the Sims life.
For me, now after logging another 40hrs+ in over the xmas break in both IL2 4.10.1M and CoD I will take the FM in CoD any day of the week.
The CoD planes are much closer matched to what I perceive as reality in regard to handling, acceleration, stall etc (known altitude issues aside for the moment) IL2 FMs are all over the shop now because of the tinkering since 4.09M. That's the biggest reason I and many of my squad stopped flying IL2 so I understand your concerns but I think the FM is pretty damn good and the planes are a pretty good matchup.
As for Furbs added comments on Sound/Graphics..
I have the occasional engine go silent at different speeds but generally only when its damaged and the sounds are miles from where they were only a couple of patches ago. They too are being worked on by a new developer in the team and he has worked miracles compared to what we had. And it will only get better. The silent engine is the only issues ive ever experienced.
Graphics is also miles better and now, reliable and stutter free since the last couple patches. Performance isnt great but its smoothness that counts in Flight sim not Max FPS. The new engine should address the remaining performance issues.
As far as CTDs go.... Well i guess they can happen but I dont experience them. Perhaps its OS dependent, but it is almost certainly config/system related issues with variances in individual users machines. This is true of most games Ive played in the last 5 years. BF3, MW3 and Skyrim crash more often on my system than CoD FWIW and many other users too have a lot more issues than I generally have.
My key recommendation here..
Use Win 7 64bit SP1 with 8GB Ram, a fast quad core processor with a 1.3GB Ram GPU as minimum.
Run a registry cleaner
Run a .net 4.0 repair
Delete game cache and dont tinker with settings in the ini files.
Use the lastest drivers for everything not just GPU (use driver cleaner if necessary)
Do a clean install of CoD if necessary.
If Overclocking, try stock clocks to test for stability
Last resort do a clean OS install.
And now back on topic please! ;) This is an interesting thread about Co-Op!
PS I've spent more on my Rig than several of your systems put together so dont talk to me about disappointment. Ive been there... and now very happy with what I get out of the sim after the last couple patches.
Tree_UK
01-06-2012, 08:17 AM
Well I build gaming PC's for a living and have been doing so for 10 years, my current rig runs at 4.7ghz with an i7 sandy bridge, 8 Gb of Ram and a GTX580 graphics card. The rig is water cooled and im running Windows 64 ultimate. No other game i run crashes, I run BF3 fully maxed out at 1920x1200 without a glitch. To suggest that the CTD in CLOD is a problem with users PC's is frankly absurd. Its a known problem with the graphics engine that luthier as already confirmed.
Anyway like you say lets get back on track, who as managed to get a Coop running successfully??
Phat, your PC is awsome and i completely respect your knowledge on the subject, but there are far more people suffering from the CTD than not. How have you got on with your SLI setup, many many months ago Luthier told us that the next Nvidia driver release will support SLI, there as been many releases since then but no CLOD config. Is yours running fully optimized?
FS~Phat
01-06-2012, 08:30 AM
Well I build gaming PC's for a living and have been doing so for 10 years, my current rig runs at 4.7ghz with an i7 sandy bridge, 8 Gb of Ram and a GTX580 graphics card. The rig is water cooled and im running Windows 64 ultimate. No other game i run crashes, I run BF3 fully maxed out at 1920x1200 without a glitch. To suggest that the CTD in CLOD is a problem with users PC's is frankly absurd. Its a known problem with the graphics engine that luthier as already confirmed.
Anyway like you say lets get back on track, who as managed to get a Coop running successfully??
Phat, your PC is awsome and i completely respect your knowledge on the subject, but there are far more people suffering from the CTD than not. How have you got on with your SLI setup, many many months ago Luthier told us that the next Nvidia driver release will support SLI, there as been many releases since then but no CLOD config. Is yours running fully optimized?
I run in 4way SLI Split frame rendering mode. AFR creates too many stutters because the drivers arent optimised.
In SFR mode it runs smooth as silk and everything maxed with 8xAA and GPUs all at 100% utilisation. Not the fastest running game in SFR but at least its smooth and consistent. Minimum 40FPS and Avg 50FPS max 120FPS.
Tree_UK
01-06-2012, 08:51 AM
I run in 4way SLI Split frame rendering mode. AFR creates too many stutters because the drivers arent optimised.
In SFR mode it runs smooth as silk and everything maxed with 8xAA and GPUs all at 100% utilisation. Not the fastest running game in SFR but at least its smooth and consistent. Minimum 40FPS and Avg 50FPS max 120FPS.
Are you certain that the AA is working phat, ive yet to see anyone show a screen shot with AA on?
Force10
01-06-2012, 08:58 AM
You made a lot of valid points Phat, and I am glad that the issues at present don't keep you from enjoying the sim. I think I can sum up my situation sort of like this: COD with it's great cockpits and feeling of flight have ruined me for IL-2 1946, 46 just seems too cartoony now. COD with all of the issues for offline play has also ruined me for COD...so there you have it. Between a rock and a hard place. Thats why I end up here looking for good news instead of flying either of them.
Anyway, back on topic(sort of): Blackdog was making a comparison of Launch version of IL-2 vs Launch version of COD. Not the 10 years of work 1946 of present. If you look at the Combatsim review link Furbs posted, you will see him talk about a great co-op mission he flew with a friend. This is out of the box IL-2 he's talking about here, so I don't think the comparison he was making was valid.
FS~Phat
01-06-2012, 09:06 AM
Are you certain that the AA is working phat, ive yet to see anyone show a screen shot with AA on?
AA definitely works but not on all surfaces. I can see the difference. Ill see if I can get a couple screen shots to illustrate.
Ataros
01-06-2012, 09:09 AM
Im just annoyed at something that would help CLOD so much is not working. maybe iam expecting to much?
I have the same feelings but feelings do not help solving issues. Staying cool and positive and taking constructive actions helps. Helping Banks and reporting in the bugreports threads helps. When new patch is out I will rise this issue again in the patch thread if I notice it early enough not to be lost in flame. Let's do it together.
Insuber ran a great thread with priority bugs list (I think COOP is not listed there btw). It is a pity it is not updated any more. http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=23405&highlight=priority
Maybe you, Tree and Tvrdi can start and maintain a new one? This would be really helpful as it looks like the devs do not have time to read all threads.
Ze-Jamz
01-06-2012, 09:27 AM
AA definitely works but not on all surfaces. I can see the difference. Ill see if I can get a couple screen shots to illustrate.
Tis True Tree but as he says you won't see it on all surfaces but I can def see the difference wether I use the ingame option OR CCC
Ataros
01-06-2012, 10:03 AM
Well yesterday I and 2 of the squad mates tried to get a coop mission going. After 2 hours we gave up.
None of the coop-missions (1 from 1C, the others downloaded from airwarfare) were working. We managed to load the il2coop lobby mission though. But we never managed to actually fly a plane. Some launcher.exe crashes occured, too.
Verdict of the evening: It has to be a lot easier to get a coop going, before we will try again.
Please tell Banks what went wrong in his thread. If there is a problem with the lobby he can solve it quickly. http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28559&page=8
However from my experience usually difficulty settings are set incorrectly or some files copied into a wrong directory. The lobby works for others if installation instructions are followed step by step. They are very easy.
LeadTurn is going to publish his set of coop-missions soon btw. Keep an eye on that thread.
FS~Phat
01-06-2012, 10:27 AM
You made a lot of valid points Phat, and I am glad that the issues at present don't keep you from enjoying the sim. I think I can sum up my situation sort of like this: COD with it's great cockpits and feeling of flight have ruined me for IL-2 1946, 46 just seems too cartoony now. COD with all of the issues for offline play has also ruined me for COD...so there you have it. Between a rock and a hard place. Thats why I end up here looking for good news instead of flying either of them.
Anyway, back on topic(sort of): Blackdog was making a comparison of Launch version of IL-2 vs Launch version of COD. Not the 10 years of work 1946 of present. If you look at the Combatsim review link Furbs posted, you will see him talk about a great co-op mission he flew with a friend. This is out of the box IL-2 he's talking about here, so I don't think the comparison he was making was valid.
Can I suggest you and others persevere with it especially online in the ATAG servers. They are a little less air quake than some. It's very rewarding if you can look past some of the imperfections that will be ironed out hopefully shortly and this co-op option is showing a lot of promise!
Tree_UK
01-06-2012, 10:41 AM
Can I suggest you and others persevere with it especially online in the ATAG servers. They are a little less air quake than some. It's very rewarding if you can look past some of the imperfections that will be ironed out hopefully shortly and this co-op option is showing a lot of promise!
I have tried mate, truly I have, but my story goes like this,
Go through take off procedure, warm engine up. Start to taxi, get straffed, not all the time but fairly often. Restart take off procedure, finally take off, gain some altitude whilst orbiting. Spot a distant dot, gain on it and try to identify, oh its disappeared. See flak below, drop in on enemy aircraft, he hasn't seen me, line up my sights and WHAM, crash to desk top. Multiply many times....then give up.
JG52Krupi
01-06-2012, 10:46 AM
I have tried mate, truly I have, but my story goes like this,
Go through take off procedure, warm engine up. Start to taxi, get straffed, not all the time but fairly often. Restart take off procedure, finally take off, gain some altitude whilst orbiting. Spot a distant dot, gain on it and try to identify, oh its disappeared. See flak below, drop in on enemy aircraft, he hasn't seen me, line up my sights and WHAM, crash to desk top. Multiply many times....then give up.
Well drop your graphic settings the game crashes a lot less for me since I have turned off shadows and the ghost dot problem is not a problem for me any more.
FS~Phat
01-06-2012, 10:55 AM
I have tried mate, truly I have, but my story goes like this,
Go through take off procedure, warm engine up. Start to taxi, get straffed, not all the time but fairly often. Restart take off procedure, finally take off, gain some altitude whilst orbiting. Spot a distant dot, gain on it and try to identify, oh its disappeared. See flak below, drop in on enemy aircraft, he hasn't seen me, line up my sights and WHAM, crash to desk top. Multiply many times....then give up.
I used to see the phantom dot enemies but to be honest since playing on ATAG haven't seen it once. As for straffing, it's part of the game and I know it can be frustrating, you just have to move bases. As for crashing, how are your GPU temps? My GTX 580s used to overheat with default max fan speeds. Before I got my water cooling blocks on I Flashed the bios to enable 100% fan which stopped a lot of crashing. Now on water they run at 52c and with the latest drivers I don't get any launcher CTD.
JG52Krupi
01-06-2012, 10:57 AM
I used to see the phantom dot enemies but to be honest since playing on ATAG haven't seen it once. As for straffing, it's part of the game and I know it can be frustrating, you just have to move bases. As for crashing, how are your GPU temps? My GTX 580s used to overheat with default max fan speeds. Before I got my water cooling blocks on I Flashed the bios to enable 100% fan which stopped a lot of crashing. Now on water they run at 52c and with the latest drivers I don't get any launcher CTD.
What are your settings?
FS~Phat
01-06-2012, 11:06 AM
What are your settings?
Everything on maximum with 8xAA, 1920x1080. And sometimes I play 6040x1080 with 2xAA. As mentioned earlier 4way SLI SFR mode.
Ze-Jamz
01-06-2012, 11:06 AM
What are your settings?
Yea id like to know that if your not seeing ghost dots..everyone else i speak with on that server does
JG52Krupi
01-06-2012, 11:09 AM
Yea id like to know that if your not seeing ghost dots..everyone else i speak with on that server does
To be fair I haven't seen them for a few weeks but they are mentioned on Comms regularly then again I rarely chase bomber formations nowadays.
Ze-Jamz
01-06-2012, 11:22 AM
I still see them..I love a bomber formation me.
Cant be assed with all the deck fighting or vulching..not my bag
JG52Krupi
01-06-2012, 11:25 AM
I still see them..I love a bomber formation me.
Cant be assed with all the deck fighting or vulching..not my bag
Yeah, I think the ghost dots soured my taste at chasing them, ATM I carry out bombing runs and littlestone blenhiem hunts :P
Ze-Jamz
01-06-2012, 11:44 AM
Yeah, I think the ghost dots soured my taste at chasing them, ATM I carry out bombing runs and littlestone blenhiem hunts :P
:) Nice
bw_wolverine
01-06-2012, 12:51 PM
I find the ghost dot problem to be far more prevalent when the server is packed with players. When it's only 10 or 15 people online, I don't think I ever get a ghost problem.
But if you do, who you gonna call?
Blackdog_kt
01-06-2012, 06:30 PM
Blackdog has a good memory of the bugs in the original IL-2 and I don't dispute that. For me, this is the difference between the 2:
Average critic score for launch version IL-2 2001: 9.2 (editors choice)
Average critic score for COD: 6.0
There are showstopper bugs and their are annoying bugs that you can still enjoy a sim with. It is 8 months later and I still don't have a singleplayer experience I can enjoy. I don't think that was really the case with the oirginal IL-2. Both sims were released with ground breaking stuff, it's just that COD can't be enjoyed by an offline player yet.
I don't dispute the problems, i'm just saying it's part and parcel of trying to do more with a team that stays the same in terms of numbers of people and funding.
The thing here is what each one prefers. For example, i'm willing to weather it out for the new features, rather than have an IL2 remake with new graphics. Of course, this is a matter of personal taste and there's no right or wrong answer, some people might as well have preferred an IL2 remake and in that case, it's understandable they are feeling disappointed.
To be fair though, i didn't really get into IL2 until FB came out. When i got the first IL2, i was flying a couple of sorties to admire the new FMs, ballistics and graphics, but then i always switched back to European Air War and flew 4-5 sorties because it was a more complete experience (because it was older simply).
That's all it takes really. I just decide if i want to support a dev team and if i have the disposable cash i'll do it (eg, buying a collector's edition on release for 70$ or waiting and picking up a steam download version for 10$), then i sample the goods and wait for the game to mature.
Also, this:
I have the same feelings but feelings do not help solving issues. Staying cool and positive and taking constructive actions helps. Helping Banks and reporting in the bugreports threads helps. When new patch is out I will rise this issue again in the patch thread if I notice it early enough not to be lost in flame. Let's do it together.
Insuber ran a great thread with priority bugs list (I think COOP is not listed there btw). It is a pity it is not updated any more. http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=23405&highlight=priority
Maybe you, Tree and Tvrdi can start and maintain a new one? This would be really helpful as it looks like the devs do not have time to read all threads.
Feelings are not useful to the cause, sad but true. I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to express them, but a more dry, technical approach like the one Ataros suggests would be more helpful to every single one of us. If the majority of content in our posts is about how we feel instead of what we do to correct what makes us feel this way, then we're just going around in circles.
Eg "I flew yesterday and the compass is screwed up. I'm so disappointed, etc" doesn't tell me (or anyone else) anything useful.
Compare it with this:
"I took the 111P for a spin yesterday. The magnetic and repeater compasses are misaligned by as much as 20 degrees when they should be showing roughly the same readout. Also, the red triangle on the magnetic compass that shows heading doesn't move so the only way to get a heading is via the tooltip readout, and the plane silhouette that's used as a course setter is immovable as well. The course setter works on the repeater compass, but it looks like it's reversed. Checking the 111H i saw that it doesn't suffer from these issues, so it's an issue isolated to the 111P. This makes accurate navigation quite difficult, especially if you want to use the course autopilot to level bomb accurately."
This tells me everything i need to know: it describes the bug and its effect on gameplay, where it occurs and has a comparison of similar features in a valid, working state on another similar flyable as a measure of validity.
But i set aside some of my time to test it for an hour yesterday on ATAG #2 after i heard two guys being confused about it on teamspeak, instead of coming here to post a one liner. Do the same if you want to see things get fixed and improved, or keep the drama down while others are doing the work for the rest of the community.
I don't object to negative observations and people having their opinions.
I object to not letting people fix the game for us by causing unnecessary drama that demoralizes those who are willing to put in the work out of their personal free time, when they could just keep all they know to themselves since they already have the means to enjoy the game more than the rest.
At least appreciate their efforts and if you can't be bothered to help, then at a minimum don't discourage them and let them do what needs to be done.
Oh, and i'm flying this on an i7 920 @ 2.7Ghz, Ati 4890 1Gb and only 3GB of RAM. I never upgrade for a game before the game is stable enough to warrant it. If i jump in the pool without checking and it turns out the water is dirty, i'm the one to blame. So, instead of blind faith turning into blind disbelief through disappointment, let's maintain a critical, technical outlook on things and a reporting style in our posts, to help get everything fixed as soon as possible.
Or we can keep ranting among ourselves and waste everyone's time :-P
Madfish
01-06-2012, 07:28 PM
Could we get back to the topic of "co-op" again now please? Would be awesome as this would be an important topic unlike performance which A) is because some people never want to upgrade and B) because the engine has problems which are being worked on. So nothing new on that front guys...
That aside, blackdog, could you go back a few pages and read my suggestions? Eventually it's best to make a sub-forum for co-op. I listed the reasons in my post here (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=374996&postcount=36).
JG52Uther
01-06-2012, 09:25 PM
Could we get back to the topic of "co-op" again now please?
Good idea...
Blackdog_kt
01-06-2012, 10:57 PM
Could we get back to the topic of "co-op" again now please? Would be awesome as this would be an important topic unlike performance which A) is because some people never want to upgrade and B) because the engine has problems which are being worked on. So nothing new on that front guys...
That aside, blackdog, could you go back a few pages and read my suggestions? Eventually it's best to make a sub-forum for co-op. I listed the reasons in my post here (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=374996&postcount=36).
I did read them and they are good, but it's not something i can decide by myself. I would give you a new section right now, i just don't know if it will be used in its intended manner. If it doesn't, then it ends up being another section to moderate for minimal community gain (hence, i'd need to talk it over with the other mods first).
I do think your idea has merit though, so let's get a middle ground solution going:
I can't give you a new forum section right away, but i can give you a sticky immediately ;)
So, let's start with a CO-OP thread in the mission building sub-forum or the multiplayer forum (whichever you prefer) for suggestions, ideas, links to missions and scripts in the other sub-sections, etc. I'll sticky that one and then we can make it into a separate section if there's enough participation.
Feel free to start a thread and PM me the link, i'll sticky it ASAP. Cheers ;)
Ataros
01-07-2012, 11:13 AM
A set of coop-missions was posted by LeadTurn_SD http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=376895&postcount=73
If anyone is interested in flying coops in CloD please try them with Banks' lobby and provide feedback in that thread. SD squad flies them without any problems.
tintifaxl
01-07-2012, 01:26 PM
Please tell Banks what went wrong in his thread. If there is a problem with the lobby he can solve it quickly. http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28559&page=8
However from my experience usually difficulty settings are set incorrectly or some files copied into a wrong directory. The lobby works for others if installation instructions are followed step by step. They are very easy.
LeadTurn is going to publish his set of coop-missions soon btw. Keep an eye on that thread.
Banks coop lobby was working as advertised - the coop missions themselves were not working.
Ataros
01-09-2012, 02:47 PM
I thank everyone who responded to our request for help!
I will start to process the data and draw up a report tomorrow.
If you would like your suggestions and bug reports come in the first part, some time still is.
Please report coop issues in this thread http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=377615#post377615
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.