Unflyables - why?

[Tavingon]

Today I felt a bit sad, why all these beautiful planes if we can't fly them? Its like they sit there just to make us wish to get inside them even more!

[Chivas]

Today I felt a bit sad, why all these beautiful planes if we can't fly them? Its like they sit there just to make us wish to get inside them even more!

Why? Probably because the developer has their hands full doing everything else, but on the bright side, they will probably be made flyable by modders at some point in the future.

[mazex]

Today I felt a bit sad, why all these beautiful planes if we can't fly them? Its like they sit there just to make us wish to get inside them even more!

Well, six months of development by 1-2 modelers for each cockpit with systems to make a plane flyable is a very good answer to why ;)

[jg27_mc]

...And because after all these months since release, the sim is still porked in many ways. :-P

[Verhängnis]

And while for sure I'm probably wrong, they might not have good enough reference photos for the cockpits and other positions.

[katdogfizzow]

Today I felt a bit sad, why all these beautiful planes if we can't fly them? Its like they sit there just to make us wish to get inside them even more!

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28633

[Blakduk]

Admin

Nice

Perhaps keeping your mind a bit less perverted will allow you to stay longer on these forums.

[Tavingon]

I'm thinking of creating a banner saying something like 'please make flyables flyable'.. any thoughts?

[IamNotDavid]

I'm thinking of creating a banner saying something like 'please make flyables flyable'.. any thoughts?

Don't waste your time.

[Katana1000S]

Why? Probably because the developer has their hands full doing everything else, but on the bright side, they will probably be made flyable by modders at some point in the future.

I sincerely hope so, part of the attraction of IL2 CoD for me was it could do a lot of aircraft to very good detail, not many franchise's can pull that off ... the alternative is a study sim like DCS A10 or even the old but good Falcon 4 with BMS ETC.

If a decision has been made to cull future development of IL2 CoD I'd like to know about that, if its a money thing ... then I would be glad to pay for additional Aircraft ... I do that already for Rise of Flight ... we can say what we like about RoF, but its a very successful business model catering to us Flight Simulation enthusiasts.

[ElAurens]

You could throw money at them all day long and they still would not have the time to make the AIs flyable.

I'm starting to see the problem with flight sims and our constantly demanding higher and higher levels of realism. The difficulty of producing these far more detailed models/FMs/DMs/weather/etc... is exponentially greater than in IL2.

However, the fan base is no bigger, and in fact it is smaller because I know lots of players who just want to fly and have fun and are very put off by the difficulty of just getting off the ground in the current sim.

So, we have reached a crossroads in combat flight simulation.

1. We continue on the current path of higher and higher realism, which means smaller and smaller numbers of aircraft and players. (A study sim).

or...

2. We settle for a lower level of realism that enables a developer to give us more fleshed out plane sets, more maps, more everything, and hence more players that pay the bills. In essence what IL2 was and is.

Tough choice isn't it?

The RoF model wont work here as WW2 aircraft, campaign maps, equipment, near trans sonic FMs, weapons of all kinds, are simply far more complex to make than the wonderful, yet very basic kites of WW1.

[Katana1000S]

You could throw money at them all day long and they still would not have the time to make the AIs flyable.

I'm starting to see the problem with flight sims and our constantly demanding higher and higher levels of realism. The difficulty of producing these far more detailed models/FMs/DMs/weather/etc... is exponentially greater than in IL2.

However, the fan base is no bigger, and in fact it is smaller because I know lots of players who just want to fly and have fun and are very put off by the difficulty of just getting off the ground in the current sim.

So, we have reached a crossroads in combat flight simulation.

1. We continue on the current path of higher and higher realism, which means smaller and smaller numbers of aircraft and players. (A study sim).

or...

2. We settle for a lower level of realism that enables a developer to give us more fleshed out plane sets, more maps, more everything, and hence more players that pay the bills. In essence what IL2 was and is.

Tough choice isn't it?

The RoF model wont work here as WW2 aircraft, campaign maps, equipment, near trans sonic FMs, weapons of all kinds, are simply far more complex to make than the wonderful, yet very basic kites of WW1.

I disagree with much of what you say, and you are in danger (with your negative views) of swaying the mouth that feeds us to your pessimistic view ... IMHO

You are making impossible comparisons of your opinion and stating them like fact ... end of story ... that's just wrong.

There are many reasons IL2 was not a drop dead success and one of them was it never ran too well on the old school IL2 players PC's ... I know this for a fact, one of my friends whom is an old school IL2 player of online but not necessarily a totally computer literate person, never understood any need to upgrade his PC he spent thousand for the original IL2, he seriously expected IL2 CoD to play as it were with the original screenshots on his old rig as smooth as butter ... I blame the Consoles for this expectation as much as anything.

At some point, we all have to upgrade our PC's to keep up ... we'll moan and complain of course, but that's the way of it, its always been that way.

Bottom line, if you want a new State of the art PC Flight sim to run well, with all the bells and whistles, it aint going to happen on your old rig that can run Crysis very well ... invalid argument.

Now I'm not saying IL2 CoD is state of the art, but its what we have for this theater and we might get more out of it by being a bit more supportive.

If I were a developer catering to a minority fraction like us and saw all the abuse hurled their way ... I'd be inclined to take my developing skills elsewhere too, to make more money.

Some of you enthusiasts should think before you type or demand.

And yes YES, RoF is a massive success, its constantly evolving and hard core Flight Sim enthusiasts are helping by buying new Aircraft .. even those that choose not to buy are benefiting from the constantly improving AI, effects and theaters.

There is just no pleasing some people.

Also, there is nothing more complex than basic evolution, we as real humans managed to evolve from WW1 Cockpits to WW2 and beyond, you are suggesting we cant have more complexity in WW2 Cockpits with IL2 CoD ... we had it from the start, only recently has RoF allowed cockpit shadows (as an example) its getting refined in IL2 CoD as we speak.

[IamNotDavid]

The RoF model wont work here as WW2 aircraft, campaign maps, equipment, near trans sonic FMs, weapons of all kinds, are simply far more complex to make than the wonderful, yet very basic kites of WW1.

I don't agree. In fact, I think the RoF model is our only hope for getting all the aircraft that we want. We're just going to have to pay more for the WW2 aircraft than we pay for the WW1 aircraft.

[bongodriver]

I don't agree. In fact, I think the RoF model is our only hope for getting all the aircraft that we want. We're just going to have to pay more for the WW2 aircraft than we pay for the WW1 aircraft.

Not really....don't forget there is an SDK to come.

[Wolf_Rider]

I don't agree. In fact, I think the RoF model is our only hope for getting all the aircraft that we want. We're just going to have to pay more for the WW2 aircraft than we pay for the WW1 aircraft.

The way I see it, is there are two choices... one, stick with RoF or 2, take up MSFS.
Actually, MSFS would be perfect... not only can you buy all the planes you want, but you can buy weather, scenery. There are airports for days, to be purchased. In fact, there are more add ons than you could point your hard-drive at

[IamNotDavid]

Not really....don't forget there is an SDK to come.

Which I assume 3rd parties will use to make aircraft that we can buy. It's not exactly the RoF model, but it's pretty close.

[bongodriver]

Which I assume 3rd parties will use to make aircraft that we can buy. It's not exactly the RoF model, but it's pretty close.

Appart from the 3rd parties that release mods for free.....like all the mods for IL2, thats the great thing about a modding community.....they do it for free.

[IamNotDavid]

Appart from the 3rd parties that release mods for free.....like all the mods for IL2, thats the great thing about a modding community.....they do it for free.

I'm sure that some stuff will be free. But these new aircraft models are pretty complex. I think people who produce them are going to want to be paid.

[bongodriver]

I'm sure that some stuff will be free. But these new aircraft models are pretty complex. I think people who produce them are going to want to be paid.

Not necessarily......moding something from scratch has always been alot of work but people still did it for free.

[IamNotDavid]

Not necessarily......moding something from scratch has always been alot of work but people still did it for free.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of free stuff. But if I can get a modder to produce 2 planes in 6 months instead of 1 by paying them, I think it's worth paying them.

[csThor]

The blind faith in "once the SDK comes the modders will do their part" is kinda amusing. The complexity of objects in CloD is considerably higher than in 1946 and even there the overwhelming majority of the modded objects did not fulfill the specifications (i.e. lack of shadow models, incomplete LODs, way-beyond-the-scales number of polys etc etc). Sorry, but for miracles you better refer to BenedictXVI(at)vatican.va ... ;)

[bongodriver]

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of free stuff. But if I can get a modder to produce 2 planes in 6 months instead of 1 by paying them, I think it's worth paying them.

Then I guess there will be something for everyone......I don't see where the debate is?

The blind faith in "once the SDK comes the modders will do their part" is kinda amusing.

not so much blind faith.....once there is an SDK then modders 'WILL' mod whether they charge or do it for free.

[ElAurens]

With the current level of complexity there is no modder that could produce 2 models every six months, paid or not. Unless you really like Frankenplanes and a lot of that junk that is out there in the mod world. (not all, but a lot of it.)

As I said, it has taken 2 years to get the B24 to the point of almost being ready to release, and it's not anywhere close to CLOD specs.

[IamNotDavid]

Then I guess there will be something for everyone......I don't see where the debate is?


There isn't really a debate. I just think we could get more content by paying people, and you think modders will produce enough for free. I'll be pretty happen if I am proven wrong.

[JG52Krupi]

With the current level of complexity there is no modder that could produce 2 models every six months, paid or not. Unless you really like Frankenplanes and a lot of that junk that is out there in the mod world. (not all, but a lot of it.)

As I said, it has taken 2 years to get the B24 to the point of almost being ready to release, and it's not anywhere close to CLOD specs.

Agreed, I do CAD modelling myself and I don't think ppl realize just how much time effort and research has gone into the cockpits.

[bongodriver]

There isn't really a debate. I just think we could get more content by paying people, and you think modders will produce enough for free. I'll be pretty happen if I am proven wrong.

Too many people try and cast things in stone here, it's not about being proven right or wrong.

the fact is an SDK has been mentioned, that means one way or another mods will be produced, who how when where are all just something we will wait to see.

[bongodriver]

Agreed, I do CAD modelling myself and I don't think ppl realize just how much time effort and research has gone into the cockpits.

I am also a modder for a lesser known flight sim serries, so yes I do know what goes into it.....I do it for free, if I get to grips with the COD SDK and have the chance to make a good mod it will also be free.

[ElAurens]

bongodriver,

I hope that you get the chance, honestly I do.

I'll take one Gladiator cockpit please. :cool:


At least I didn't ask for all the crew stations on the Sunderland.

:!:

[csThor]

What ElAurens said. I'm not arguing against using the SDK, mind you, I am argueing against the obvious believe in the fairy tale that once the SDK is out the mods will appear as if by magic, creating a land where milk and honey flows and grilled doves fly straight into the player's mouth. ;)

Working for CloD will be a serious undertaking, both in time and development input, and it will require a lot more details to make them approach the quality and depth of the systems that MG has already modeled. It may take years for real quality to appear ... Just saying.

[bongodriver]

What ElAurens said. I'm not arguing against using the SDK, mind you, I am argueing against the obvious believe in the fairy tale that once the SDK is out the mods will appear as if by magic, creating a land where milk and honey flows and grilled doves fly straight into the player's mouth.

But you have to admit you are overexaggerating this particular perception of yours, nobody is making anything like those claims.

[csThor]

No, I am not overexaggerating the impression. I've heard that "wait until the SDK arrives, then ..." far too often. I do admit that I am quite a cynic when it comes to the topic of modding, though. ;)

[bongodriver]

Weve all heard many many things far too often on these forums.....but I will say you never heard anybody say a new mod would arrive the day after an SDK release.

saying 'wait until the SDK arrives' is quite a reasonable statement.....just like 'wait until the patch arrives'.....but nobody seems to be able to wait around here.

[ElAurens]

Patience is a virtue in short supply.