Spitfire Resources

[dnr]

Gents,

I like flying sims, but I like history too, so for any of you that actually care to research the correct operating procedures from someone who strapped on a Spitfire, or who wants to ensure that they have the right Mark of Spitfire assigned to the correct wartime Squadron that is operating out of the their real RAF Station and using an authentic squadron call sign, then here's a start at setting up a Spitfire resources string. I've posted URL links along with plain text versions of the http address in case the links don't work.

First installments:

1. List of Spitfire Squadrons and assigned serial numbers including data on production: http://www.spitfires.ukf.net/squadrons.htm
2. RAF Fighter Command Order of Battle 1940 during the Battle of Britain. Wikipedia site includes Fighter Groups, Sector stations and satellite airfields, bases, squadrons, aircraft type, squadron codes, squadron call signs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Fighter_Command_Order_of_Battle_1940
3. Supermarine Spitfire Takeoff and Landing Guide (after weeks of going nose over on my landings, this was the first resource I could find that explained the mysteries of landing a spit (and they all worked). I would just ask the CLoD developers to program all of the start up steps in the next patch. Can't wait to pump the primer.
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/archive/index.php?t-72714.html
4. Pilot's Manual for Supermarine Spitfire iia and iib. This is a great resource and contains useful information about engine management and flight systems operation.
http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/Images/spit/Spit2Manual.pdf
5. A chronology of the Battle of Britain. I've started work in mission builder to re-create the engagements of 54 Sqn (C/S RABBIT) flying out of Manston.
http://www.battleofbritain1940.net/0021.html

Being Canadian I'd love to focus my efforts on 1 RCAF Sqn, but the poor colonials only ever got to fly the Hurrican so if you want Spitfires my boy, gotta go RAF. Feel free to add more as you find them. Good hunting!!

[ivo]

Thank dnr ;)

[badfinger]

Gents,

I like flying sims, but I like history too, so for any of you that actually care to research the correct operating procedures from someone who strapped on a Spitfire, or who wants to ensure that they have the right Mark of Spitfire assigned to the correct wartime Squadron that is operating out of the their real RAF Station and using an authentic squadron call sign, then here's a start at setting up a Spitfire resources string. I've posted URL links along with plain text versions of the http address in case the links don't work.

First installments:

1. List of Spitfire Squadrons and assigned serial numbers including data on production: http://www.spitfires.ukf.net/squadrons.htm
2. RAF Fighter Command Order of Battle 1940 during the Battle of Britain. Wikipedia site includes Fighter Groups, Sector stations and satellite airfields, bases, squadrons, aircraft type, squadron codes, squadron call signs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Fighter_Command_Order_of_Battle_1940
3. Supermarine Spitfire Takeoff and Landing Guide (after weeks of going nose over on my landings, this was the first resource I could find that explained the mysteries of landing a spit (and they all worked). I would just ask the CLoD developers to program all of the start up steps in the next patch. Can't wait to pump the primer.
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/archive/index.php?t-72714.html
4. Pilot's Manual for Supermarine Spitfire iia and iib. This is a great resource and contains useful information about engine management and flight systems operation.
http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/Images/spit/Spit2Manual.pdf
5. A chronology of the Battle of Britain. I've started work in mission builder to re-create the engagements of 54 Sqn (C/S RABBIT) flying out of Manston.
http://www.battleofbritain1940.net/0021.html

Being Canadian I'd love to focus my efforts on 1 RCAF Sqn, but the poor colonials only ever got to fly the Hurrican so if you want Spitfires my boy, gotta go RAF. Feel free to add more as you find them. Good hunting!!

dnr,

The Spitfire pilot's manual is a "Secured" pdf file. Can it be unsecured so that it can be printed?

Thanks,

binky9

[dnr]

Binki9,

Hey I was just in Tx back in August and got a taste of 140 degree heat while in Dallas. Don't get that up here in the great white north (actually it's pretty green most of the time). I'll try to print the pilot manual and get back to you, I just saved it to my desktop for easy access.

Try this link. www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/Images/spit/Spit2Manual.pdf

[dnr]

It appears that the author locked this one up tight. Could not print it but still a great resource to have on your computer.

[badfinger]

dnr,

I did same thing as you, put it on my desktop.

Thanks for trying,

binky9

[dnr]

Good summary on the topic of gun convergence. the key here is to understand the inherent dispersal pattern of any one MG, then multiply that by the number of guns and you can see where getting the proper range setting for both horizontal and virtical convergence is critical. Nice bit on percentages.
http://www.slowcat.de/slowcats1/AHTC/Convergence.pdf
__________________________________________________ ________
CyberpowerPC Gamer Ultra 2063 120mm LQ, AM3 Phenom II X6 1090T(3.2GHz), ASUS M4A87TD EVO MB, G.Skill Ripjaws PC3 12800 DDR3 1600 16 GB RAM, 2TB HDD, Dual 1 GB AMD Radeon HD 6870 (Crossfire) GPUs, Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit, Saitek X52 Pro stick/thrust/ rudder, Cyborg, 70” Sharp Quatton

[dnr]

For those who are interested in prefecting their air to air gunnery skills using the Spitfire with the reflector gunsight, the link below will take you to a very good explaination of the gunsight, how it works and how to use it. This may be a repeat for some as I'm sure it can be found elsewhere in this forum, but for those particularily interested in Spitfire resources, I'll add it again. The Tides of War/Cliffs of Dover post below includes a summary of the typical wingspans of all your favorite playmates. The website is ToW Forums> by Air> IL2:Cliffs of Dover> No. 616 Squadron> 616 - Dispersal Hut at the following link:
http://forum.tidesofwar.net/index.php/topic/14430-il2-cod-trng-reflector-gunsight-adjustment/
I did some simple math, being Christmas leave what else would I be doing?
Set your gun convergence according to your preference (remember to convert the convergence setting which is in meters, to yards to match the gun sight). If you set your gun convergence to 100 yards (x .9144 = 91.44 meters), then considering that the British .303 Mk VII at 174 grains with a muzzle velocity of 2,440 FPS takes .12 seconds to travel that distance, your application of lead in a turning fight where airspeeds drop to about 250 MPH, a Bf 109 with a length of 29' 4" and wingspan of 32' 6' will travel about 44' in .12 seconds. So your lead should be about 1.5 x lengths at that speed. Then consider angles of attack (to compensate for ballistic drop), rates of closure or separation and you should be on target with some practice.

[winny]

I'm feeling christmassy so here.. For those who don't already have this.

Spitfire MkII A/B Manual (scan of original)

Never tried to print it but with some scissors and staples...

[bolox]

spit production summary
http://www.spitfires.ukf.net/production.htm

(hurri also
http://www.k5083.mistral.co.uk/APS.HTM )

[dnr]

Great article on a variety of munitions used during the BoB including some data on penetration effectiveness at 200 yards against structure and light armour. Also mentions standard RAF convergence settings for the Spit and Hurricane at the beginning of the battle and later as operational experience was gained (e.g. convergence distances were reduced from 360 to 225 meters (393 yards to 246 yards).
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/BoB.htm

The second article is a good comparative study of munitions effectiveness with some useful charts to help figure out your optimum ammo load.
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm

[dnr]

Thanks Cheesehawk, I'll read through your link to see what new nuggets are there. Having read through the summary of BoB munitions effectiveness, I did some basic math in order to more fully understand the weapon dynamics between firing at and hopefully hitting another aircraft. When I first started Cliffs of Dover I wondered why the RAF fighers fired such long bursts. The I recently read a history of the Spitfire where the British Air Ministry wanted a stable gun platform that could deliver 2.5 seconds of sustained fire at a bomber. The eight gun .303 set up was considered sufficient to cause the failure of the target aircrafts systems. In reading the data in the previous links I now understand why this was. If you read the data below, it's clear that anything less than 2.5 seconds, the chance of penetrating 4mm armour plate was very slim. Also Cliffs of Dover tracks our hit percentage which is critical in estimating your chances of downing an aircraft with a well placed burst. I've gone with 5% (although I checked my stats and am now up to a whopping 6%). Of these, only 33% are expected to penetrate the aircraft skin and structure, and of these only 6% are expected to penetrate the armour plate. Based on your burst duration, and how you set your gun configuration, you might be surprised by how little effect you really have on that target of yours. I've based my calculations on six guns firing .303 AP. I have my #1 and #8 guns firing incendary, tracer and observer rounds

.303 AP Penetration @ 200 Yards
Column titles left to right:
(1-Burst duration in seconds) (2-Total AP rounds fired 6 x guns) (3-Gunner accuracy @ 5% hit ratio) (4-33% penetrate aircraft skin) (5-6% penetrate 4mm armour) (6-Length in feet of bullet stream) (7-Total rounds per liner foot)
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7)
0.25 30 1.5 0.495 0.0297 607.5 0.049
0.5 60 3 0.99 0.0594 1215 0.049
0.75 90 4.5 1.485 0.0891 1822.5 0.049
1 120 6 1.98 0.1188 2430 0.049
1.25 150 7.5 2.475 0.1485 3037.5 0.049
1.5 180 9 2.97 0.1782 3645 0.049
1.75 210 10.5 3.465 0.2079 4252.5 0.049
2 240 12 3.96 0.2376 4860 0.049
2.25 270 13.5 4.455 0.2673 5467.5 0.049
2.5 300 15 4.95 0.297 6075 0.049

__________________________________________________ _____
CyberpowerPC Gamer Ultra 2063 120mm LQ, AM3 Phenom II X6 1090T(3.2GHz), ASUS M4A87TD EVO MB, G.Skill Ripjaws PC3 12800 DDR3 1600 16 GB RAM, 2TB HDD, Dual 1 GB AMD Radeon HD 6870 (Crossfire) GPUs, Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit, Saitek X52 Pro stick/thrust/ rudder, Cyborg, 70” Sharp Quatton

[dnr]

Cheesehawk,

Since changing my convergence from 437 yards (400 meter setting in the plane loadout) to 230 meters (250 yards) and setting my sight properly, my hit percentage has jumped to 17%. Close in engagements and longer bursts have had a noticible effect, particularily with bombers. If you re-calculate the numbers, whereas before a 2.5 second burst with a 5% hit ratio would result in 15 rounds hitting the target, 4.95 rounds penetrating the skin/structure and only .297 rounds penetrating the armour (virtually zero) then compare that with the new convergence setting with a hit percentage of 17% (this is not a new average, but the results of one mission), then 51 rounds will hit the target, 16.83 will penetrate the skin/structure and 1.0098 rounds will actually get through the 4mm armour plate. Odds are still not in your favour, but the numbers do demonstrate the effect convergence has on the potential outcome on an engagement.