Armed pilots?

[Tavingon]

Should pilots have personal weapons such as the enfield revolver or luger... Discuss

Maybe you could take pot shots when you're parachuting?

[pupo162]

Maybe you could take pot shots when you're parachuting?

so has to give people an excuse to start shooting at chutes in online wars? nah...

also, a waste of devs time. and why should we have arms outside the plane, if we cnat have them inside?

[Sven]

I don't see why this would be needed. Also, I haven't really read of any German pilot carrying a side arm, that would be more an American 'thing' I believe.

But enlighten me if this wasn't the case :grin:

[Tavingon]

I think I must have read too many 'Commando' comics recently ;)

[machoo]

Taking out aircraft with an AR-15 in a parachute would be sweet.

[Tavingon]

Taking out aircraft with an AR-15 in a parachute would be sweet.

Maybe the co pilot in the Tiger moth should be armed with a 1928 thompson to fend off those pesky 109s

[SNAFU]

I read of some german pilots wearing their Luger on combat missions. They decided it would be better to avoid dying of hypothermia.

[ElAurens]

At this point the most carried sidearm used by German forces was the Walther P38. A far superior weapon than the complex, expensive to manufacture, and relatively malfunction prone P-06, what most people commonly call a "Luger". Both chambered in 9 X 19 Parabellum, or more simply called 9mm Luger.

If an RAF pilot carried a sidearm it would have been the Enfield No.2 Mk I, or the No.2 Mk.I*, chambered in what the British called 380/200 (.380" diameter bullet that weighed 200 grains), and what Americans call .38 Smith & Wesson. (Note: this is not the more modern 38 Special caliber, that is actually .357" in diameter).

[Ze-Jamz]

:) we could all meet in the air and bail thus starting our duels while parachuting down to the ground

Brings a new meaning to the term ('air war')

[Skoshi Tiger]

Should be optional

https://cas.awm.gov.au/item/026642

[trashcanman]

During the Battle of Britain, RAF fighter pilots were not issued with sidearms.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Should pilots have personal weapons such as the enfield revolver or luger... Discuss

Maybe you could take pot shots when you're parachuting?
Does anyone have Tavingon's home phone number?

If so do him a solid and call him to let him know raaaid has aparently hacked into 1C forums and stolen Tavingons handle!

[swiss]

We just can't wait until we do this in CoD...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FOaGhE_sejI

roflmao! :grin:

[Kongo-Otto]

At this point the most carried sidearm used by German forces was the Walther P38. A far superior weapon than the complex, expensive to manufacture, and relatively malfunction prone P-06, what most people commonly call a "Luger". Both chambered in 9 X 19 Parabellum, or more simply called 9mm Luger.


Well yes and no, some Flying personnel (specially on Bombers)had the Pistole 08 aka Luger, but i have never seen a Picture of a Pilot with a P-38, many had also smaller side arms like the Walther PPK or Mauser HSC also yery common was the use of side arms like the Czechoslovakian CZ 24, 27, or CZ 38, the Spanish Astra 300 or the French Unique 17 or the MAB (Manufacture D´Armes Des Bayonne) Model D or the Italian Beretta Model 1934.
The smaller the side arm was the more likely it was used as a side arm for flying personell.
Those side arms with German Waffenamts Markings today are desired collectors items.

[335th_GRAthos]

We just can't wait until we do this in CoD...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FOaGhE_sejI

ROFL !!!!! Respect!

I did not know Chuck Norris plays BF3!!!!! :)

~S~

[ElAurens]

Well yes and no, some Flying personnel (specially on Bombers)had the Pistole 08 aka Luger, but i have never seen a Picture of a Pilot with a P-38, many had also smaller side arms like the Walther PPK or Mauser HSC also yery common was the use of side arms like the Czechoslovakian CZ 24, 27, or CZ 38, the Spanish Astra 300 or the French Unique 17 or the MAB (Manufacture D´Armes Des Bayonne) Model D or the Italian Beretta Model 1934.
The smaller the side arm was the more likely it was used as a side arm for flying personell.
Those side arms with German Waffenamts Markings today are desired collectors items.


Thanks for the info!

I can understand why they would prefer the smaller pistols, by and large chambered in 32 ACP (7.65 Browning), over the large P38 or even the Luger. And it's really sort of a morale booster anyway, as we all know, a handgun will loose almost every time to a man with a rifle.

[SIDWULF]

We just can't wait until we do this in CoD...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FOaGhE_sejI

That was badass.

[Kongo-Otto]

Thanks for the info!

I can understand why they would prefer the smaller pistols, by and large chambered in 32 ACP (7.65 Browning), over the large P38 or even the Luger. And it's really sort of a morale booster anyway, as we all know, a handgun will loose almost every time to a man with a rifle.

Btw one of the rarest Wehrmacht sidearms and today one of the most wanted collectors item is this one, only about 8250 have been produced.

the Norvegian Kongsberg M1914 (license built Colt M1911) in the Wehrmacht known as: Pistole 657 (n) (Picture shows Post war produced Model circa 1946-1947)
http://forum.valka.cz/attachments/4461/kongsberg.jpg

[Artist]

I have no idea if this is historically correct, but a rather impressive film anyhow:
The German (http://vimeo.com/31202906)
(Sidearms do play an important role here.)

[Kongo-Otto]

I have no idea if this is historically correct, but a rather impressive film anyhow:
The German (http://vimeo.com/31202906)
(Sidearms do play an important role here.)

IIRC side arms where not supplied tho the RAF during the BoB.
And a Messerschmitt BF 109 dogfighting over Ireland? I higly doubt that!
They could barely reach London and then had to take an sharp eye on their fuel gauge, as they didnt had the 300 liter externals during the BoB.
IMHO it would be more historical correct with an Spitfire fighting an long range recce plane and not a BF 109. ;)

[pupo162]

IIRC side arms where not supplied tho the RAF during the BoB.
And a Messerschmitt BF 109 dogfighting over Ireland? I higly doubt that!
They could barely reach London and then had to take an sharp eye on their fuel gauge, as they didnt had the 300 liter externals during the BoB.
IMHO it would be more historical correct with an Spitfire fighting an long range recce plane and not a BF 109. ;)

i tought it was strange too, but according to end credits, multiple german fighters were shot down in ireland.

[Kongo-Otto]

Actually, the 109 could easily reach London, in fact, most had enough fuel left over to fly back to France! ;)

Well ditching into the channel without fuel in sight of the French Coastline or on the shore also counts as "Flight back to France" i assume. ;)

[Kongo-Otto]

i tought it was strange too, but according to end credits, multiple german fighters were shot down in ireland.

They mentioned: "From 1940 to 1945 some 240 Allied and German servicemen were interned in Ireland under the Laws of Neutrality."

Servicemen means every Military Branch.
They say mention Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe aircrew in this link:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13924720

All in all there were interned in Ireland:

140 Germans, mainly Luftwaffe and U-boat crew (including Survivors of the Kriegsmarine Destroyer Z27, Torpedoboats T25 and T26 which have been sunk Dec 28th 1943 after Combat against RN Cruisers HMS Glasgow and HMS Enterprise(Operation Stonewall) in the Bay of Biscay and rescued by Irish Merchant Ship)
There is no further Information about the Luftwaffe Personnel, but i highly assume that it was Personel from Recce Planes because the Sea around Ireland was a scene of heavy Convoy Battles during the Battle of the Atlantic and frequently flown over by Recce Planes like the FW-200
100 Allied servicemen from Poland, Canada, New Zealand, Britain and sole American Bud Wolfe.
400 IRA internees

[Kongo-Otto]

Not enough fuel to reach London would indicate most ditched somewhere N of Dover/Hawkinge on the way N? Where'd you get your history facts? lol

Sorry my mistake, i misinterpreted something i did read. :oops:

[ElAurens]

Btw one of the rarest Wehrmacht sidearms and today one of the most wanted collectors item is this one, only about 8250 have been produced.

the Norvegian Kongsberg M1914 (license built Colt M1911) in the Wehrmacht known as: Pistole 657 (n) (Picture shows Post war produced Model circa 1946-1947)
http://forum.valka.cz/attachments/4461/kongsberg.jpg

Interesting how they changed the slide release design. I'm assuming it is chambered in .45 ACP?

[Osprey]

We just can't wait until we do this in CoD...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FOaGhE_sejI


Sooooo funny!! LMFAO!!!!


Back to topic. I read that German pilots were not allowed to carry a weapon in the BoB because if they went into the drink some would prefer suicide to awaiting rescue.

I prefer hypothermia, it's a cool way to go out.

[TomcatViP]

Really ?

You'd better share a night with all those poor guys sleeping in the street in central London :evil:

[BadAim]

Really ?

You'd better share a night with all those poor guys sleeping in the street in central London :evil:

It's a pun you git.

[BadAim]

The Sauer 38H was also popular with the Lufties.

[SIDWULF]

Armed pilots? Well no, its almost as useless an idea as being able to walk out of your plane.

[Tavingon]

Picture last stand from call of duty,... falling from the sky you have one last chance to down that spitfire, with your dual lugers...
ok I'm jking!

[von Pilsner]

Picture last stand from call of duty,... falling from the sky you have one last chance to down that spitfire, with your dual lugers...
ok I'm jking!

Here it is: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28453 :D

[Kongo-Otto]

Interesting how they changed the slide release design. I'm assuming it is chambered in .45 ACP?

Yes it was chambered in .45 ACP.

[Kongo-Otto]

The Sauer 38H was also popular with the Lufties.

Yup, today a pretty piece in every WW2 Side Arms collection.

[5./JG27.Farber]

The Bf109 had a rack in the tail for a K98. When and if they were issued I dont know.

[MB_Avro_UK]

Who were the RAF pilots during the Battle of Britain expected to shoot at with their hand guns...the Home Guard?

[Sokol1]

From B-25 Tondelayo history:

"The wounded co-pilot was firing out of the window with his pistol, the Zeros were so close. "

;)

Sokol1

[raaaid]

From B-25 Tondelayo history:

"The wounded co-pilot was firing out of the window with his pistol, the Zeros were so close. "

;)

Sokol1

http://blocs.xtec.cat/avellasuperior1112/files/2011/11/aventures_fanta_munchausen.jpg

[Skoshi Tiger]

Who were the RAF pilots during the Battle of Britain expected to shoot at with their hand guns...the Home Guard?

The wingman who didn't cover their six?

[Sokol1]

RoF now has Colt 1911

http://riseofflight.com/SharedResources/Blog/posts/2011_12_23/10.jpg



Now that we have improved the flare pistol, we also wanted to add a new feature. We wanted to give the pilot a personal weapon that he can use as a last resort. This is fun new feature and it is the last argument in the battle. We chose the M1911 as the first gun of several possible models that may be included in future updates, assuming this feature proves popular. The M1911 holds 7 rounds of .45 caliber ammunition and you have 4 magazines in the cockpit with you. It is fatal in contact with the pilot and can seriously damage the engine or break the tank with fuel. Choose a weapon with the combination «Ctrl» + «5». You can buy this gun in our store as part of the "Personal Pilot Package" for ROF users



Payware of course.

;)

Sokol1

[Tavingon]

Thats great stuff, imagine sliding that hurricane cockpit back and reaching for that hard hitting webley

[ElAurens]

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/273/webleyfosbery1.jpg
Needs more Webley-Fosbery

The preferred sidearm of the RNAS.


OH, and my modern manufactured 1911 Springfield GI Mil Spec is quite accurate. The problem with a lot of the original G.I. issue pistols is that they are very very old, their heat treatment was non-existent and the are quite loose at this point.

I'm still jealous though. I'd love to have an original government issue Colt. But the prices are simply too dear these days. Even standard Webleys are going out of sight.

[Kongo-Otto]

The Bf109 had a rack in the tail for a K98. When and if they were issued I dont know.

AFAIK those only were issued and fitted with the F-2/Trop, F-4/Trop and the G-2trop, G-4trop and the G-6trop.

[MB_Avro_UK]

I'm almost certain that RAF bomber crews were not issued with a hand gun. And maybe it was the same for LW bomber crews?

And sailors weren't issued with hand guns.

[Kongo-Otto]

And sailors weren't issued with hand guns.

Well yes and no, there was always a certain amount of Rifles and/or Pistols on board of a ship, for Guard Duties etc.

For example this one was issued to the Royal Navy:
Webley & Scott Pistol Self-Loading .455 Mk.I N (N=Naval)
http://forum.valka.cz/files/webley___scott_mark_i_n__navy__.jpg
these pistols were used by the Royal Navy during WW1 and WW2, as well as being issued in small numbers to the Royal Flying Corps and Royal Horse Artillery during WW1. The RN discontinued their use shortly after the end of WWII.
There was also a Version Webley & Scott Pistol Self-Loading .455 Mk.I D(D= Dominion) which was issued to the Royal Australian Navy in about 500 pieces.
The Model D is even rarer as an collectors item then the N Version.

Also issued to the Royal Navy, Royal Flying Corps and the Royal Horse Artillery was an US Produced Model of the Colt M1911 in .455 Webley
The remainig guns were transfered after WW1 to the Royal Air Force which used them in limited Numbers until the end of WW2.
http://operatorchan.org/k/arch/src/k164257_pistol%20US%20WW1%20Colt%20M1911%20in%20.4 55%20Webley%20Auto%20Briti.jpg

And here is a example of an RAF issued web belt shoulder holster for an Webley Service Revolver.
Its stamps are marked AM which stands for Air Minstery
http://www.abload.de/img/gunwebbing3largesy22l.jpg

[ElAurens]

I'd dearly love to find an AM marked holster for my 1939 Enfield No. 2 Mk.1 revolver.

[Skoshi Tiger]

For example this one was issued to the Royal Navy:
Webley & Scott Pistol Self-Loading .455 Mk.I N (N=Naval)
http://forum.valka.cz/files/webley___scott_mark_i_n__navy__.jpg

I'm sure I seen that pistol being used by International Rescue in the Thunderbirds series????

[Richie]

I've read both Erich Hartmann's and Helmut Lipfert's book and I can't remember Hartmann carrying a gun but I think I remember Lipfert being lost and having to land on a field or road and asking some civilians where he was with his pistol drawn.

[Sokol1]

http://www.fieldandstream.com/files/imagecache/photo-single/photo/38356/Zero1911_2.jpg
http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/gun-nuts/2011/06/best-shot-1911-ever
http://www.airforce-magazine.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/1996/July%201996/0796valor.aspx

;)

Sokol1

[jayrc]

I've read both Erich Hartmann's and Helmut Lipfert's book and I can't remember Hartmann carrying a gun but I think I remember Lipfert being lost and having to land on a field or road and asking some civilians where he was with his pistol drawn.

I know Hartmann would not accept his medals from Hitler unless he could wear his pistol

[swiss]

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/gun-nuts/2011/06/best-shot-1911-ever
http://www.airforce-magazine.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/1996/July%201996/0796valor.aspx

;)

Sokol1


My first thought was: LOL, BS!

Then I remembered the story of the A6 pilot who was killed by a farmer working on the rice fields below, who fired a few bullets after the low flying intruders - with 30 years old rifle from the French that is.
Golden shot, things happen.