Switzerland select Grippen

[swiss]

http://www.saabgroup.com/en/About-Saab/Newsroom/Press-releases--News/2011---11/Saab-proud-about-Swiss-government-selecting-Gripen/

Hooyah!
Now, I hope the voters agree...

[Sternjaeger II]

lol nice, you're gonna be out there with the big ones: Sweden, South Africa and last but not least Thailand! Rock on! ;)

I mean, it kinda makes sense, since you really have never used a fighter since WW2, so you'd better keep it cheap and cheerful, but being happy about it? :confused:

[Jaws2002]

Gripen is definitely suitable for Switzerland. They don't need an expensive twin for the limited airspace they have to deffend.
Smart choice.
With a little tweaking, Gripen can be as effective as the big twins in such a small area.

[swiss]

Bingo.
Plus, we dont have the cash.
It's the NG we're talking about, and I'll rather have two Grippen than one EF.

Furthermore it doesn't offer serious attack capabilities, which is pretty important, should our lefties one fine day decide to join the NATO.

[GOZR]

Bhaa :( Ain't a Rafale.. ;)

[JG4_Helofly]

Good news. It's the only choice that make sense.

[F19_Klunk]

Good choice :D

[swiss]

Skøl!
lol

[mazex]

Bingo.
Plus, we dont have the cash.
It's the NG we're talking about, and I'll rather have two Grippen than one EF.

Furthermore it doesn't offer serious attack capabilities, which is pretty important, should our lefties one fine day decide to join the NATO.

Agreed - but I'm a bit biased ;) Glad to hear you like the choice!

As a Swede this is naturally really good news as we need exports to keep up our rather unique role as one of the few countries in the world that make our own fighter aircraft. OK, the Gripen is maybe not the best fighter plane in the world - but from a bang for the bucks perspective it's a rather good choice... And it sure is good looking ;)

[Sternjaeger II]

Bingo.
Plus, we dont have the cash.
It's the NG we're talking about, and I'll rather have two Grippen than one EF.

Furthermore it doesn't offer serious attack capabilities, which is pretty important, should our lefties one fine day decide to join the NATO.

Lol sorry man,but this idea of Switzerland not having cash is kinda funny ;-)

Is there really this possibility btw? Switzerland joining the NATO would be genius! As in keeping dictators' money whilst you bomb 'em! :mrgreen:

[Madfish]

It's the electronics (or lack of) that makes the difference IMO. Not just the thrust. I can't really see the point of buying the Grippen to be honest. Shouldn't be much of an improvement over the current fleet. If anything I too must say the Rafale would've been an interesting pick - aside from the EF.

[TomcatViP]

Agreed - but I'm a bit biased ;) Glad to hear you like the choice!

As a Swede ...OK, the Gripen is maybe not the best fighter plane in the world -

Just for that I wld buy one for my backyard (read the kidney/Porsche story - ok I need more than a kidney here)

Grip NG was by far the best choice for a F5 replacement for Switzerland.

[OT_Mode=ON/] Talking abt cars I hope that SAAB wld celebrate this with a new descent model. Time to wake up the guys in GotherBorg!

[mazex]

It's the electronics (or lack of) that makes the difference IMO. Not just the thrust. I can't really see the point of buying the Grippen to be honest. Shouldn't be much of an improvement over the current fleet. If anything I too must say the Rafale would've been an interesting pick - aside from the EF.

Ehh - you mean that upgrading from F-5:s to JAS-39 should not be much of an improvement? C'mon - that's rather harsh ;)

[TomcatViP]

Lol nooooo

I mean range, Radar antenna size, weapon loads etc...

It's a really good plane well suited for the job here.

I am sure tonight LkdM start to think of a better future (the gap is closed hence the furious comments on prices).

DA shld hve run with a serious M2K-NG.

But if I was from SW I wld hve run directly with a F20 instead of such a wild ride with a STOL derivé:rolleyes:

Sometime mixing both expectation is not what get satisfaction. Well it's late, time to say it to the gf:oops:

[major_setback]

I'm very happy about this. It's another in a long line of fine aircraft from Sweden.

I agree with the Swiss reasoning that there is no reason to pay for a few extravagantly expensive fighters. Better with more (technologically advanced and fully capable) cheaper ones.

[major_setback]

I think it's a wonderful looking plane. Originally the tail was swept back I think (on the prototype). It was straightened for purposes of stability. I actually prefer the final look of it.

Big beautiful photos of Gripen/Griffin

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/d98_1253gripen.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/gripen_cz2_hr.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/Gripen_NG_Tender_Brazil-2.jpg

[JG53Frankyboy]

if i understood correct the Gripen is not ment to replace the Hornets?!
Waste of money.....wondering how it got through the swiss direct democratic.



EDIT:
after reading some newspapers about this, i would say this deal is not done already, only the choice of the government

[swiss]

Lol sorry man,but this idea of Switzerland not having cash is kinda funny ;-)


Our Army is running dry due to all the cuts, we have less than 4 Billion for 140k men.

Something I experienced myself before I retired(from Militia, you had to show up once a year for 3weeks).
We had a AWD Mercedes Sprinter with tranny and ABS problems, the mechanics only told us:
Sorry guys can't fix it before next year, we have to wait for the new budget.
WTF?!
:(

Back in '95 we were pretty well equipped, today everything is falling apart...



Is there really this possibility btw? Switzerland joining the NATO would be genius! As in keeping dictators' money whilst you bomb 'em! :mrgreen:

They dont have any money parked in Delaware, UK, Germany and France, right? ;)

[swiss]

if i understood correct the Gripen is not ment to replace the Hornets?!
Waste of money.....wondering how it got through the swiss direct democratic.

EDIT:
after reading some newspapers about this, i would say this deal is not done already, only the choice of the government

No, the Gripens are supposed to replace our F5s

And yes, you're correct concerning the democratic process, the lefties probably are going to demand a poll.
But:
It wont be about Gripen or something else, it will be about Gripen or no fighters before 2020 at all.
No new fighters would mean the Army had lost it's democratic backup.
The next poll would be about the dissolution of the Swiss Army, likely with a similar result.
You could basically say, if the Gripen loses, the Swiss Army will be gone in less than 10 years.

I expect ~55% of the people voting pro new jets.



edit:
Isn't it a beautiful plane?
(In fact, it always was my first choice, even back in the day when we bought the ugly and super expensive F18 )

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/1994/december1920x1200.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/522/december1920x1200.jpg/)

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/1456/january1920x1200.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/832/january1920x1200.jpg/)

[JG53Frankyboy]

but running two different jets inthis times by a small airforce.......
i don t know the useable resttime of the swiss Hornets, but even bigger airforces are going to one type jet. It wil not last long, and the german one wil use only its ~140 Eurofighters. the few Tornados, with the newest plan only 85, will be out of service in a few years.

Switzerlandvand multirole jets, do thes plan to take part on international missions......for homedefence, groundattack.....not realy seriously, therefor i said waste of money.

buying a dozen more of used Hornets (if possible) would be more logical
. but perhaps more expensive than thought to bring them to the swiss standarts, if possible at all.

but in one or two decades thesecGripens would be the only swiss jets anyway, when the Hornets will have reached the end of their structual lifetime.


impersonaly wondering if at least in the "west" the F-35 will not be the last manned jet project for a very long time , if not at all......

[swiss]

From what I heard the Gripen and our F18 will share the same engine, obviously the F18 get a F414 upgrade in the near future(?).

Furthermore buying new F18 is going to be an adventure, the Swiss F18 are made in Switzerland with crapload of swiss-custom parts, they replaced everything with titanium.
I mean, that thing is tough enough for carrier operations, but not tough enough for the Swiss? Ok...

Twin engine also means double fuel consumption and double maintenance - sorry, there's no cash for this kind of luxury.

Concerning the future: We are considering to switch to only one model - the Gripen.

And the F35, well, that thing is joke.
"Let the missiles do the turning", lol
What if they fail?
You can't run
You can't outturn your enemy


Check out this link
http://www.ausairpower.net/jsf.html

[BGs_Ricky]

I for one will be happy to see them flying here in a few years...granted the people vote yes, and that's not sure yet. I know so many people around me that would drop our army if they could, that I think it will be a tough votation, the last one for the F-18 made 57% of yes, now in a time of crisis many people just see what they consider an unnecessary 3 billions public money spending.

We'll see...

[JG53Frankyboy]

From what I heard the Gripen and our F18 will share the same engine, obviously the F18 get a F414 upgrade in the near future(?).

Furthermore buying new F18 is going to be an adventure, the Swiss F18 are made in Switzerland with crapload of swiss-custom parts, they replaced everything with titanium.
I mean, that thing is tough enough for carrier operations, but not tough enough for the Swiss? Ok...

Twin engine also means double fuel consumption and double maintenance - sorry, there's no cash for this kind of luxury.

Concerning the future: We are considering to switch to only one model - the Gripen.

And the F35, well, that thing is joke.
"Let the missiles do the turning", lol
What if they fail?
You can't run
You can't outturn your enemy


Check out this link
http://www.ausairpower.net/jsf.html

anyway, i belive in some few decades we will see not few airarms flying only the F-35 as manned jets.......
the tactical thinking , at least in europe,cwent away from full scale airwar to a tatical one were you throw smart bombs form medium height on some 'tribes' . if this will still fit in 50 years, nobody can say.

running a serious airforce is a very expensiv affair nowadays.

[Sternjaeger II]

Considering the size of Switzerland, I wonder why they don't invest in a decent AA missile system really. I mean, seriously, how do they operate with these jets? Flying around in circles all the time? :confused:

[swiss]

Considering the size of Switzerland, I wonder why they don't invest in a decent AA missile system really. I mean, seriously, how do they operate with these jets? Flying around in circles all the time? :confused:

Because you can't police your airspace with missiles.
Well, you could, but... lol

[JG53Frankyboy]

"shoot first, ask later" ;)


i my opinion, its most times better to build a Air-to-Air jet and give this Air-to-Ground ability than otherway round. It might be more expensive, yes, but you are more safe whatever you need in the future.....
In this part, it will be interesting to see how the F-35 will perform once in service for some time....
i think if a flightbof F-35 will ever meet a flight of Su-35/30 in anger, and no of the so few F-22 will cover them (what will the USN do..?) , i hope for the F-35 pilots they had very good training.

for throwing smart bombs on the mentioned 'tribes' a Pilatus or Embraer turboprop with the needed avionics is good enough, and a lot cheaper (i guess) ;)



for switzerland, i also think its futre will be the Gripen ( if it will make it through,).perhaps order some more than 22. i belive it will be the last manned jet to be purchased by switzerland......

[TomcatViP]

From what I heard the Gripen and our F18 will share the same engine, obviously the F18 get a F414 upgrade in the near future(?).




They hve not the same spool size if I remind well. But I guess many chore parts are compatible.

In 2020 for sure it wld be a 35 unless the dumbknopf ru[i]ning the fighters project in EU start to re-think their strategy

[JG4_Helofly]

The problem is that in switzerland there is almost no discussion about the threats we are likely to face. I got the impression that the new planes are only some new expensive toys for the military, but no one asks for what tasks we really need them.
Yes, we need an army, but an army which is adequate for the situation. Even if we would expect only one of our neighbors to attack us (which is extremely unlikely), then 22 brand new EF or rafale wouldn't make a difference. For every other scenario we don't need these expensive jets either.
That's why the Saab is a good choice.

[Al Schlageter]

Bhaa :( Ain't a Rafale.. ;)

Is Dassault arrogant?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/16/uae-warplanes-idUSL5E7MG3J320111116

[Sternjaeger II]

Yeah, I don't really think you need jets at all frankly. Again, an efficient AA network is way more effective and less costly on such a small territory than anything else.

[TomcatViP]

Is Dassault arrogant?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/16/uae-warplanes-idUSL5E7MG3J320111116

It's not as simple. Don't forget that Politics (in a year elections) are chickening out easily.

It's an old tac called :" I step where it can hurt" :rolleyes:

AS a side note in a country (UAE) with years of history hving to deal with the mighty huge AWG-9/Phoenix, radar range is of an utmost of importance. Just re-read all the account of exasperated Navy pilot during TARCAP missions in GWI

[swiss]

Yeah, I don't really think you need jets at all frankly. Again, an efficient AA network is way more effective and less costly on such a small territory than anything else.

You still don't understand it.
It is not about defense, Helofly already made this point.

- We just need a plane to police our airspace, f.i. keeping other countries from using it for their attack runs(think of Austria, Serbia and Croatia...).
Or check out planes with defective transponders.
Think of it as a police car, there's no need for Bugatti Veyron.

- Switzerland does have an Air&Space industry, which we would like to keep more or less up to date.
That is the reason why we assemble the fighters here in Switzerland and also require full technology transfer.
(The US manufacturer refused to offer for this reason)

Makes sense to go for the best bang for the buck, no?

[Sternjaeger II]

You still don't understand it.
It is not about defense, Helofly already made this point.

- We just need a plane to police our airspace, f.i. keeping other countries from using it for their attack runs(think of Austria, Serbia and Croatia...).
Or check out planes with defective transponders.
Think of it as a police car, there's no need for Bugatti Veyron.

- Switzerland does have an Air&Space industry, which we would like to keep more or less up to date.
That is the reason why we assemble the fighters here in Switzerland and also require full technology transfer.
(The US manufacturer refused to offer for this reason)

Makes sense to go for the best bang for the buck, no?

Why not getting F-16s of the latest block then? Cheap and cheerful, plenty of manoeuvrability and highly effective for airspace policing.

[swiss]

Why not getting F-16s of the latest block then? Cheap and cheerful, plenty of manoeuvrability and highly effective for airspace policing.

Technology, a least a tiny bit...

And, c'mon, they really suck, it's enough if they Israeli and the turks rely on it.

[Flanker35M]

S!

Gripen is not a bad plane. The engine is a license built GE from the F18 with more thrust and better survivability against FOD and birds trikes. Seen and compared both F18 engine and Gripen engine in Sweden.

If the Swiss have Gripens and F18's they form quite an opponent together. And add to this the topography of Switzerland + the Swiss pilots know their mountain passes etc. like their backyard. Anyone not familiar with the area would be under extreme strain to keep SA and not to collide with mountains etc.

Gripens are used by Hungary too btw..

[Sternjaeger II]

Technology, a least a tiny bit...

And, c'mon, they really suck, it's enough if they Israeli and the turks rely on it.

lol seriously? The USAF is planning on using the F-16 until 2025!! Man, the Falcon is a great little multirole jet!

[swiss]

lol seriously? The USAF is planning on using the F-16 until 2025!! Man, the Falcon is a great little multirole jet!

lol too - actually the have to keep in air because the F35 never got ready.
And again, the ground attack capabilities are irrelevant - for us.
Afaik they still produce some new F16s for NICs.

If the Tiger wasn't such bitch to maintain and had a bigger airframe with space for modern avionics I'd vote to keep them.

[Al Schlageter]

French cartoon
http://client.globecartoon.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/globecartoon.woa/wa/dessin?id=1002182

[swiss]

Again, the production/assembly in Switzerland is a SWISS REQUEST.



Edit: Old joke, but cartoon is still quite funny.;)

[TomcatViP]

Again, the production/assembly in Switzerland is a SWISS REQUEST.



Edit: Old joke, but cartoon is still quite funny.;)

Oh there is the right use of the famous Swiss army knife, Uh ?

[Sternjaeger II]

lol too - actually the have to keep in air because the F35 never got ready.
And again, the ground attack capabilities are irrelevant - for us.
Afaik they still produce some new F16s for NICs.

If the Tiger wasn't such bitch to maintain and had a bigger airframe with space for modern avionics I'd vote to keep them.

lol no, cos the F-16 is waaaaay cheaper to use than a F-35, which is gonna start being delivered in 2 years.
I'm starting to wonder whether you want an efficient jet or a fancy one ;)

[swiss]

Oh there is the right use of the famous Swiss army knife, Uh ?

Yeah, the Airforce version comes with an Allen-key...

[swiss]

lol no, cos the F-16 is waaaaay cheaper to use than a F-35, which is gonna start being delivered in 2 years.


With what do should the airforce replace the jets if not the F35?
There were no alternatives, and the F35 IS the F16 replacement.


I'm starting to wonder whether you want an efficient jet or a fancy one ;)

Makes me wonder what your definition of efficient is. :confused:
It doesn't get more efficient than the "Ikea plane".