CH Fighterstick-sensitivity problem caused by CLOD or CH control manager?

[David198502]

hey guys.after one year i decided to make a clean installation of windows on my rig, because it was full of useless trash.after i did, i installed steam and clod. then i plugged in my fighterstick, calibrated it via windows 7 and played cod before i installed the ch control manager software.i surprisingly realised, that the stick was way more sensitive near the center....everybody who has a fighterstick, propably knows that there is a really small space in the center, where you can move the stick without feeling the counter force of the springs.even those small inputs were suddenly recognized by the game.after testing a bit further i came to the conlusion, that it was much easier to aim precisely and doing really small corrections of my aim, and i also noticed a difference while i made a couple of landings.i could control the flare before touchdown much more smooth....and i mean really smooth.

then i installed ch control manager again and loaded my map,calibrated the stick and went back into game.well the stick was still precise, but not as much as with the windows calibration.
so i quit the game, and set the stick to direct mode.i suspected that when i use it in direct mode, that the sensitivty should be as precise as with the windows calibration, cause in the ch control manager software, when one calibrates the stick in direct mode, the software recognizes even the smallest input and shows them in the raw data.but it wasnt.as soon as i calibrate the stick with ch software, the stick gets a small, but still noticeable deadzone near the center in the game.thats annoying now that i know the difference, because i have to make a decision...either i use my really handy map with all the possible controls on the stick with its 3modes and leave the deadzone as it is, or i use windows calibration,have a really sensitive stick but loose my map.for now i uninstalled ch software and calibrated the stick with windows, and set a couple of controls to my keyboard, cause i really love the "new" accuracy of the stick.

however, what i actually would like to know is, if that is a problem connected to ch products and its software, or maybe cliffs of dover and the way it
recognizes the stick.

i wanted to ask this on ch-hangar, but the site seems to be down at the moment.

everyone who has a ch stick could try this, cause i would be really interested if someone else recognizes this difference.it takes only a couple of minutes to uninstall ch software, and in case you dont like the difference, or insist on your map, to reinstall it again.but before you delete it, safe your maps!
i really would like to know your results.

[ElAurens]

I have the full CH kit, including the Throttle Quadrant. Never used the CH software as I have always found it very counter-intuitive, at best.

With all the CH gear, and controls set up in game I don't know why you would have to run the CH program.

Just my opinion of course.

As to the G940, well when it gets as old as my Ch stick and throttle, and still works properly, let me know.

[JG52Uther]

I don't use the CH software either, and feel the same way as ElAurens about it.

[David198502]

I have the full CH kit, including the Throttle Quadrant. Never used the CH software as I have always found it very counter-intuitive, at best.

With all the CH gear, and controls set up in game I don't know why you would have to run the CH program.

Just my opinion of course.

As to the G940, well when it gets as old as my Ch stick and throttle, and still works properly, let me know.

ah ok...so you guys have never used the ch software??why not?because of the reason i described above?
the reason i used it until now, was that on the ch hangar site everybody was recommending it, and claimed that its almost necessary to calibrate the stick with the software to get a decent behaviour...besides i wanted to use all the 3modes of the stick, cause up until now, i dont have rudder pedals and no throttle as well, but only the stick.


but its interesting that you guys dont use it at all..do you have it even installed, or did you calibrate the stick with windows??

Edit:well cheesehawk, besides this little issue, im really statisfied with the stick.it works really well,is really precise and most important it seems undestroyable.btw, doesnt have the g940 a bug?

[JG52Uther]

When I first got my fighterstick and pedals, I did install the CH manager, for il2 '46. In the end I found I just did not need it, and forever editing and downloading maps was annoying, and just an extra complication for a prop sim. I personally found it more trouble than it was worth.
I have never used the CM for CoD, and have no problems.

[David198502]

@ JG52Uther.....do you have the ch pedals??how are they working?cause i tend to buy them soon, cause i believe in ch products longevity.

[JG52Uther]

My CH pedals are a few years old now, and work as good as the day I bought them. Some people find them to close together, but I get on fine with them. Saying that, a lot of people seem to like the Saitek pedals so you might want to look at them.

[trumps]

I have always used CM with my HOTAS, and pedals, apart from in WWII online where I had issues with it. In the last near on 11years that I have been running my CH setup I have never had an issue with regards to centering, spiking, and or any other axis response. Will have a play next time I am in town to see if I notice a difference by not using CM.

Craig

C

[David198502]

I have always used CM with my HOTAS, and pedals, apart from in WWII online where I had issues with it. In the last near on 11years that I have been running my CH setup I have never had an issue with regards to centering, spiking, and or any other axis response. Will have a play next time I am in town to see if I notice a difference by not using CM.

Craig

C

i didnt know that i have a problem regarding the centering of the stick until i calibrated via windows....the difference is really small and only in the absolute center of the stick.the small space where the stick is movable without feeling the pressure of the springs.
when i used the ch software for the stick, the animated stick in the game would not move when i did such small inputs on the real stick without feeling the spring's pressure.
but now as i calibrated only with windows, and have no ch software on my rig, the game recognizes those really ridiculous small inputs.the stick seems to react on even the smallest movement of my arm, and so does the game now.
when i calibrated the stick with ch control manager and had a map, in the game i had to move the stick until i could feel the pressure of the springs that i could see a movement of the animated stick in the game.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Hi David,

I have the full CH kit (FS, PP, PT, TQ, and 2 MFP's) I've always used the CH software to link them together. The main point about the software is you can virtually do anything you want to do with key binds etc. But the other point is when using the software, say your map is loaded it turns all your controllers into 1 device. This comes in handy for many older games that will only recognize a mouse and keyboard, for instance. The other thing about the software is you have the ability to use "off mode" that way all your axises don't interfere, again, with other games like an first person shooter.

That's interesting about the precision in the middle. My kit, besides the MFP's are getting up there in age, and I've never noticed any sort of precision lost anywhere lol. I know you are stating, it's a very small gain without the software. I guess I'll have to test it and see if I see the same thing.

I just can't believe the CH software would actually cause a problem though. Perhaps the CH software default sensitivity is set lower than in game? Might be worth raising it a bit in the software and see if your loss in precision comes back.

[Peril]

After a full install from Win 32 bit to Win 64 Bit I noticed the response was non linear now. Windows drivers seem to have a small fixed amount of exponential programmed in?

I have installed the CH drivers hoping to resolve this issue and also because when my system takes a sleep, it drops the stick. I'm in the middle of trying to see if loading the CM will resolve this issue.

In short, after my reinstall to 64bit, there were defiantly some stick feel changes similar to what you are seeing. Still working on resolving these myself.

[IvanK]

I recall some discussion on the CH forums eons ago about CH calibration. they ade it quite clear that if you intend using CH manager then don't ever calibrate directly in Windows. (It was in the time of XP mind you). A utility exists to delete the windows calibration.

I have been using CH and CH manager for years with zero issues. Having been down the Cougar trail ..Uber next mods etc I switched to CH and never looked back. The stick and throttle are at least 4 years old and never missed a beat, or spiked or reduced sensitivity.

Only changes I have made are the Ivankuturkokoffrubberband mod. A 5 min job that allows you vary spring pressure in each axis independently as the only fault imo in the CH stick is its a little to light. With this my elevator pressure is about 1/3 more than Roll pressure which i have about twice as stiff as stock anyway. The mod is "Fail passive" and I get about 6 months out of a set of bands.

[David198502]

hey IvanK...do you have a link to that rubberband mod?i searched in google but didnt find anything related to it except your post.

[Peril]

I recall some discussion on the CH forums eons ago about CH calibration. they ade it quite clear that if you intend using CH manager then don't ever calibrate directly in Windows. (It was in the time of XP mind you). A utility exists to delete the windows calibration.


You can't do this under Win 7 64bit, it won't let you :)

[David198502]

You can't do this under Win 7 64bit, it won't let you :)

i think you can....
i started a thread about the same topic over at ch-hangar and bob gave me the advice to clean the windows calibration with this tool...

quote by Bob Church:
"....
http://www.wingmanteam.com

and look on the main page for a utility called ClrCalib.exe. Download that and run it, it wipes Windows calibration data clean and should clear up the conflict."

[IvanK]

hey IvanK...do you have a link to that rubberband mod?i searched in google but didnt find anything related to it except your post.


Sure David its my mod. I will dig out some images etc tomorrow and post here.

[David198502]

Sure David its my mod. I will dig out some images etc tomorrow and post here.

thx very much....that would be really kind of you...thx in advance

[corchard]

thx very much....that would be really kind of you...thx in advance

Last night I think I found Ivan's original post with pics at http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1061128&postcount=4

Charlo

[IvanK]

Yes thats it. I post again here the same stuff for those that dont want to go to the link :)

The world famous Ivankuturkokoffrubberbandmod. I came from a Cougar then Cougar ubernxt so know the issue. I knocked off the Condom mod idea and used standard Aussie newsagent rubber bands. I run 2 size 12 bands in the pitch axis and a single no 12 in the roll axis. This gives you a little more stickforce in Pitch compared to roll which is nice. In each case I put a single Double twist in each band. Just make sure that bands go inside the support. Incorrect and correct routing shown in the jpgs below. The incorrect routing works just fine btw but band failure occurs a little more often

This mod is straight forward and is fail tolerant. I get about 6 months in the Pitch axis and forever in the roll axis. There is no problem with safety or risk in damaging the stick as the bands oppose the jaws you can see this in the top A labelled jpg below..... no strange smells either. Also no issues with calibration as again the bands oppose the jaws so will auto centre everytime. Even better it is fully adjustable want more tension just add another band to suit your tastes.

Its fail tolerant so when one goes the stick still works. It takes about 5 mins from go to woe to do the mod.


Here are some images ... all you need:

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/7539/bandsp.jpg

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/507/p1030660jw.jpg

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/1072/p1030666.jpg

You need to unscrew the bottom of the CH stick (caution if you are still under warranty you will void it). There are screws under each of the rubber feet that can be popped off with a screwdriver as they are just tacked on with glue. An additional screw is located under the "don't open me or you will void your warranty" sticker.

[David198502]

thx IvanK...i will definitely try your mod.

[David198502]

btw...if anybody with an ch stick is still interested, Bob Church from ch-hangar confirmed my assumption, that ch software indeed does produce a small deadzone in the center of the stick after calibration.but he also told me that its possible to write a small script to delete that deadzone.....will post it here if he shows me how.