Hurricane Rotol mixture controls?

[Dano]

Ok, so I feel the need to try and get this straight in my head lol...

Are the mixture controls on the Hurricane Rotol are reversed? When in the Rich position it shows as 0% and when Weak at 100% or is that supposed to mean the amount of air in the mix, ie; 0% air at rich and subsequently lots of air at weak mixture? Colour me confused!!!

The controls are obviously designed that at idle you can only have a rich mixture and can only go full weak once past 50% throttle, so assuming it's not reversed at higher throttle settings more air is in the mix yes?

Also, there appears to be a bug in that as you reduce throttle below 50% you can physically see the mixture control be collected and move toward the rich end along with the throttle, this does not appear to affect the actual mixture settings until you touch whatever control you have set it to however? So you can have throttle at idle and mixture at full lean which should not be possible due to the physical controls right?

Anybody care to educate me? :D

Thanks.

[ATAG_Snapper]

Actually the mixture control for the Hurricane in CoD is correct (Rich = pull lever fully back; Lean = push lever fully towards the instrument panel).

By contrast, the CoD Spitfire mixture control is incorrect and is a glaring error that amazingly the devs have missed completely. It should be the same as the Hurricane's.

[Dano]

So how does that correspond with rich showing as 0% and weak 100%?

[reflected]

Normally it should be as Snapper said:

Lever back = Auto Rich (automatic)
Lever forward = lean (to use only with limited boost and RPM)

(Both on Hurricanes and Spits)

In game it's a mess. To figure out if it's actually lean or auto-rich, give full throttle and put the prop to fine pitch. If the plane starts shaking like hell then it's set to weak :)

[JG53Frankyboy]

the question is also:
should the cockpit lever move the same direction as your controler lever/axis or should alwasy be lever/axis forward (=100%) mean RICH.
And the cockpit lever would move correct to set RICH mixture.

The italian planes behave like that as example.- cockpit and controler levers are moving in oposite direction.

i personaly like more, 100% means RICH.

[ElAurens]

Yes, fully back is rich.

I have a CH throttle quadrant and it has a detent that puts the mixture at 18~19% when in that position. I have found that using that position after achieving 500 or so feet after take off is just perfect for all flight operations at all altitudes. Nice blue stack flames and smooth running at all throttle and prop settings.

[ATAG_Snapper]

So how does that correspond with rich showing as 0% and weak 100%?

Honestly, don't know. I can't find my Hurricane I Pilots Notes, but here's a link I found on the Storm of War forum, thanks to EAF_Starfire:


http://airwarfare.com/sow/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=32&id=266&Itemid=253

Unfortunately, the cockpit illustrations in these Notes are not clear enough to answer your question above properly. Will check my modest library at home to see if there is a high-res photo of the Hurricane I mixture lever. (This lever was removed in Hurri II's when mixture control became fully automatic). But important for operation in CoD (and real Hurricanes, too): pull back for Rich; push forward for lean.

[l3uLLDoZeR]

The real question is: Does the mixture actually do anything in this game?

I've yet to see any improvement in performance at altitude.

[ElAurens]

Try going to full rich at altitude, then get back to me.

Mixture adjustment is not a magic performance enhancer. All you can expect is to have the aircraft running smoothly.

I've had my Hurri/Rotol to 25,000+ ft online and it ran Ok. It's no P47 at altitude by any stretch, but it ran smoothly.

[TomcatViP]

The real question is: Does the mixture actually do anything in this game?

I've yet to see any improvement in performance at altitude.

I guess You hven' try yet. Btw mixt has nothing to do with improving the perfs.

I am sure that flying canopy open deny you from hving some clear minded logics :-x

[Robo.]

The real question is: Does the mixture actually do anything in this game?

Yes it is doing something, but not what it is supposed to do.

[klem]

Normal flight is Mixture at Auto-Rich with the lever in the back position. Forward is Auto-Weak (ref: Pilots Notes) and only serves to assist high altitude low fuel consumption cruising, it isn't use for anything else and doesn't need to be used at all if you don't want to.

The little Graphic simply shows you the position of your HOTAS lever or other axis that you are using for Mixture. That interpretation of 'percentage' is only the amount you have moved your HOTAS lever, i.e. fully maxed = 100%, fully min = 0% and in the Hurricane fully min = cockpit lever fully back = RICH which is correct. (Note! as someone pointed out the Spitfire mixture and the lever graphic is working the wrong way round).

Some guys insist on calling out percentages for things like Mixture graphic, Throttle graphic etc. Its an old IL-2 habit. They would be better calling Rich/Lean and Boost or RPM readings according to the gauges, it is less confusing.

[Bokononist]

Normal flight is Mixture at Auto-Rich with the lever in the back position. Forward is Auto-Weak (ref: Pilots Notes) and only serves to assist high altitude low fuel consumption cruising, it isn't use for anything else and doesn't need to be used at all if you don't want to.

The little Graphic simply shows you the position of your HOTAS lever or other axis that you are using for Mixture. That interpretation of 'percentage' is only the amount you have moved your HOTAS lever, i.e. fully maxed = 100%, fully min = 0% and in the Hurricane fully min = cockpit lever fully back = RICH which is correct. (Note! as someone pointed out the Spitfire mixture and the lever graphic is working the wrong way round).

Some guys insist on calling out percentages for things like Mixture graphic, Throttle graphic etc. Its an old IL-2 habit. They would be better calling Rich/Lean and Boost or RPM readings according to the gauges, it is less confusing.

I'm with you there Klem, it's especially confusing for people like me who didn't play the old IL2. On saying that I don't know how to describe the prop pitch when flying red though, other than fine and coarse.

[JG53Frankyboy]

well, than it should be the same in ALL planes !
3D cockpit lever movement = controler axis/lever movement (poor chaps who dont use these to cotnrol........)

Means also, controler axis/lever full forward in a FIAT means 3D cockpit lever full forward = zero Throttle !

for me this is totaly stupid in a game "we" use HOTAS controlers !
We should control our controlers, not directly the 3D cockpitlevers in their direction of movement.
BUT, the most important is still, it should be the same logic in ALL planes.

In the moment it is not.

and this 100% and 0% is a simplification what one is meaning , these % are shown if you set your "lever input info window" to a digital reading instead of the bars.

[l3uLLDoZeR]

Normal flight is Mixture at Auto-Rich with the lever in the back position. Forward is Auto-Weak (ref: Pilots Notes) and only serves to assist high altitude low fuel consumption cruising, it isn't use for anything else and doesn't need to be used at all if you don't want to.



Right on, this was helpful. I was thinking you could fin tune the mixture to whatever percent you wanted..I didn't realize it was auto-rich or auto-lean!

In the real world setting the mixture even at 7,000 ft makes a huge difference in fuel burn, but if I go too lean the engine will run rough and really hot. I also can see my exhaust temps to help set my mix.


Oh and I'm glad you got a chance to jump in with some smack talk Tomcat, I would be lost without you!

[Dano]

But... if full rich = auto rich then why do I see yellow exhaust flames? I was under the impression that I should not see any yellow when my mixture is set correctly and thus the auto feature does not work correctly or is that realistic?

[klem]

The word "auto" relates to the engines ability to maintain the correct Rich mixture with changing altitude. However in CoD I do seem to be able to Lean the mixture off until the flame changes from Yellow to Blue, usually around 25-30% travel so either its modelling adjustable rich/lean level between the extremes or I'm simply hitting a crossover point.

I haven't found anything in the Pilots Notes that talks about gradual adjustment of Mixture, just fully back (Rich) or fully forward (Lean)

[Moggy]

The word "auto" relates to the engines ability to maintain the correct Rich mixture with changing altitude. However in CoD I do seem to be able to Lean the mixture off until the flame changes from Yellow to Blue, usually around 25-30% travel so either its modelling adjustable rich/lean level between the extremes or I'm simply hitting a crossover point.

I haven't found anything in the Pilots Notes that talks about gradual adjustment of Mixture, just fully back (Rich) or fully forward (Lean)

In the ferry pilots notes it states;

Mixture. Mixture is either Automatic Rich or Automatic Weak. The lever friction is adjusted by a knob concentric with the throttle friction control.
The throttle and mixture controls are interconnected and in some cases it will not be possible to bring the throttle back below +2 boost without moving the mixture control. In these aircraft no harm will result by moving the mixture lever back with the throttle until zero boost is obtained.
In some of the latest aircraft mixture control is fully automatic and there is either no lever or if one is fitted it is wired in WEAK.

[ATAG_Snapper]

Some guys insist on calling out percentages for things like Mixture graphic, Throttle graphic etc. Its an old IL-2 habit. They would be better calling Rich/Lean and Boost or RPM readings according to the gauges, it is less confusing.

+1

We now have the means to fly the plane realistically. I've dispensed with the cockpit icons on my screen for that reason. I use throttle to set boost, CSP lever to set rpm's -- which I believe the BoB RAF pilots did in 1940. When receiving instructions from an online flight leader to adjust controls in terms of percentages, I can only request "Repeat, please!" ;)

[TomcatViP]

well, than it should be the same in ALL planes !
3D cockpit lever movement = controler axis/lever movement (poor chaps who dont use these to cotnrol........)

{...}
for me this is totaly stupid in a game "we" use HOTAS controlers !
We should control our controlers, not directly the 3D cockpitlevers in their direction of movement.
BUT, the most important is still, it should be the same logic in ALL planes.

In the moment it is not.

and this 100% and 0% is a simplification what one is meaning , these % are shown if you set your "lever input info window" to a digital reading instead of the bars.

The most stupid thing I've read lately. I guess you lost all your inspiration that night - happens to all of us ;)

What you wrote will leads us back to Sony hands ctrller with circle, star and square buttons as flight ctrls :rolleyes:

[JG53Frankyboy]

compare how the 3D incockpit levers (mixture & throttle),of a G.50 move with how the Hurricane/Spitfire levers move in reaction to your controler input, perhaps than you understand what i mean.

my main interest is that all planes can be contolled at least with the same logic.

[TomcatViP]

each country has his own habits. Some power up for example by pushing on the throttle and some pull.

When I fly the Hurricane for ex. I hev to keep in mind that the prop pitch ctrl is reversed from that of the 109.

I am sure that by mapping different profile for your ctrler according to each plane you like to fly, it shld be as if CoD has a unified ctrl law.

[JG53Frankyboy]

but for me its still silly that if i want to push the mixture lever forward in a 3D cockpit ( whatever mixture setting is the result than ) , i have to push my controler lever forward when flying a Hurricane but backwards when flying a G .50 .

But true, CoD has bigger proplems!

[klem]

In the ferry pilots notes it states;

Mixture. Mixture is either Automatic Rich or Automatic Weak. The lever friction is adjusted by a knob concentric with the throttle friction control.
The throttle and mixture controls are interconnected and in some cases it will not be possible to bring the throttle back below +2 boost without moving the mixture control. In these aircraft no harm will result by moving the mixture lever back with the throttle until zero boost is obtained.
In some of the latest aircraft mixture control is fully automatic and there is either no lever or if one is fitted it is wired in WEAK.

I can only guess that the automatic mixture function enriches the mixture when required and if the lever was wired in Rich it would override the automatic function which would not be able to Lean the mixture. Just a guess though.

[Robo.]

I can only guess that the automatic mixture function enriches the mixture when required and if the lever was wired in Rich it would override the automatic function which would not be able to Lean the mixture. Just a guess though.

If you mean the interconection of mixture and throttle levers, this was done purely mechanically (spring on some aircraft, shape of the levers on a Hurricane). So if a pilot flying on AUTO LEAN pulled the throttle lever towards him to lower the boost, mixture lever was also physically moved to AUTO RICH position. Mixture lever was operating 'other way around' in all RAF fighter aircraft in this era for that very reason.

No matter how the devs decide to deal with the Italian approach, the levers in cockpit should move correctly. As for now, only Rotol Hurricane is OK, Spitfires and dH Hurri are wrong as for the Mixture lever animations + more importatnly, the mixture as such is modelled incorrectly. (1.05)

[Moggy]

Still at least it's not as bad as being able to start the Hurricane on main tanks. I've tried to send Luthier some documents and a film but his inbox is full.

[Hood]

If you mean the interconection of mixture and throttle levers, this was done purely mechanically (spring on some aircraft, shape of the levers on a Hurricane). So if a pilot flying on AUTO LEAN pulled the throttle lever towards him to lower the boost, mixture lever was also physically moved to AUTO RICH position. Mixture lever was operating 'other way around' in all RAF fighter aircraft in this era for that very reason.

No matter how the devs decide to deal with the Italian approach, the levers in cockpit should move correctly. As for now, only Rotol Hurricane is OK, Spitfires and dH Hurri are wrong as for the Mixture lever animations + more importatnly, the mixture as such is modelled incorrectly. (1.05)

In any case it's only relevant if you use the mouse to shift the mixture lever. If you use a controller you can simply reverse the key/controller input so that you click/push "up" and the in-cockpit lever goes "down".

Simples

Hood

[Robo.]

In any case it's only relevant if you use the mouse to shift the mixture lever. If you use a controller you can simply reverse the key/controller input so that you click/push "up" and the in-cockpit lever goes "down".

But even so, the animation in the cockpit is other way round (and that's my point) in Spitfires and dH Hurricane.

[klem]

If you mean the interconection of mixture and throttle levers............................................ ......

No, I was replying to Moggy's previous post about later Automatic systems which he believes sometimes still may have had a lever in the cockpit but was wired to the Weak position.