Unlocking the turret ring in the Ju-87 & 88..?.

[jamesdietz]

I can swivel & fire the gun with my mouse,but so far have been unable to get it to rotate freely on its toothed circular ring ( I bet the German name for this ring is" very interesting..") What is the command & its default keystroke - it has eluded me.Can it also be assigned to the mouse? thanks!

[Foo'bar]

I bet the German name for this ring is" very interesting.."

in german such things are called "Zahnkranz" :)

[KG26_Alpha]

I can swivel & fire the gun with my mouse,but so far have been unable to get it to rotate freely on its toothed circular ring ( I bet the German name for this ring is" very interesting..") What is the command & its default keystroke - it has eluded me.Can it also be assigned to the mouse? thanks!

Unfortunately there's too many controls for the gunners to handle gunning comfortably.

Quite ridiculous, also the mouse seems inverted for up down gun movement.

1. undock from cruise/firing position
2. assign keys for rail up/dn/lft/rgt < this needs something like right mouse click to move the ring/mount and left mouse click to fire, then all firing and movement controls are in one hand on the mouse
3 assign keys to move gun < ??
4. use mouse to move mg
5. left mouse to fire it

Remember you can't move the gun whilst firing it though !! gawd knows why ?? < fixed problem

The whole gunnery/turret thing needs reworking its too complicated and too slow to position your aim,
also the guns locked whilst firing so you cant track enemy aircraft in the sight.




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[TomcatViP]

Perso I really liked it (unless the inverted vertivcal ctrls - eg: non aircraft handling like ) .

Perhaps the implementattion of an optional easy mode with slightly degraded precision/speed fully compatible with online gaming ?

[HR_Naglfar]

Remember you can't move the gun whilst firing it though !! gawd knows why ??


It's just a control conflict. Assign another control for Hold to offset camera instead of left mouse in the camera controls, or change left mouse to fire weapons and problem solved.


Also you just need Move Mount Left and Right to move the turret ring.

[KG26_Alpha]

It's just a control conflict. Assign another control for Hold to offset camera instead of left mouse in the camera controls, or change left mouse to fire weapons and problem solved.


Also you just need Move Mount Left and Right to move the turret ring.


I'm not in camera mode though in in a gunner position. Changed the setting and the mouse moves but stops firing when the gun moves from first position the guns fired.

Also the rings not moving.

Hmmm

Just rechecked

I cant move the ring at all now as well, only the gun moves or the bf110 turret ring using up/dn/lft/right
I don't use TIR and use F10 to switch to mouse mode.

Also assigning the

Is this the problem.

[HR_Naglfar]

I'm not in camera mode though in in a gunner position.

Also the rings not moving.

Hmmm

Just rechecked

I cant move the ring at all now as well, only the gun moves or the bf110 turret ring using up/dn/lft/right
I don't use TIR and use F10 to switch to mouse mode.

Is this the problem.

But... the 110 doesn't have turret ring or movable mount.

Have you tried with other gunners?


Edit: I made a quick test and the only ring mount that seems to work ok is the Ju-87's. The rear turrets from the He-111 and Blenheim also work ok (I'm not sure but I think that the Br.20 work ok too, but I didn't tested it now).

[JG53Frankyboy]

the ring of the Ju87 is working, the ones of the Ju 88 not IIRC

[JG52Uther]

I leave the AI to man the guns, far too complicated for someone my age.

[Tavingon]

It seems like its harder to use the guns than fly... No wonder these gunners spent months at gunnery school

[KG26_Alpha]

the ring of the Ju87 is working, the ones of the Ju 88 not IIRC

Correct same result here.

But... the 110 doesn't have turret ring or movable mount.

Have you tried with other gunners?


Edit: I made a quick test and the only ring mount that seems to work ok is the Ju-87's. The rear turrets from the He-111 and Blenheim also work ok (I'm not sure but I think that the Br.20 work ok too, but I didn't tested it now).

My bad I meant the He111

Ok

It seems like its harder to use the guns than fly... No wonder these gunners spent months at gunnery school

The MG's move like they are in thick oil, or the gunners suffering from malnutrition.
Also
With the 1 second key press delay and consequential over run on the rail control, it makes tail gunnery almost useless.

Seems like an overhaul of the whole things needed to make the bomber experience worth while.




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[JG53Frankyboy]

well, when i fly bombers online (almost 100%) i have removed the tracers in my guns and also let the AI shoot.
i personally count the gunner stuff to the WIP list actually.....

[ParaB]

The turret controls are IMO a prime example of bad game design in CoD. They are over-complicated and basically unusable.

[robtek]

I think the guns reflect only the problems of RL like Air-drag.
Manual handled defence armament just isn't easy to handle! Live with it.
I personally find the pleas for more arcade pityful, learn to cope with it or go to arcade settings, maybe it is easier there.

[Bonkin]

Unfortunately there's too many controls for the gunners to handle gunning comfortably.

Quite ridiculous, also the mouse seems inverted for up down gun movement.

1. undock from cruise/firing position
2. assign keys for rail up/dn/lft/rgt < this needs something like right mouse click to move the ring/mount and left mouse click to fire, then all firing and movement controls are in one hand on the mouse
3 assign keys to move gun < ??
4. use mouse to move mg
5. left mouse to fire it

Remember you can't move the gun whilst firing it though !! gawd knows why ?? ~<<Problem fixed

The whole gunnery/turret thing needs reworking its too complicated and too slow to position your aim,
also the guns locked whilst firing so you cant track enemy aircraft in the sight.



Ermm.... think you can fire the gun whilst moving it and tracking enemy aircraft...

I too think turrets are too complicated... but I did find (on the Blenheim at least) that once you've undocked the gun from the cruise position if you use Shift F1 then your view is locked to the gunsight - so you can happily move the gun around the sky and fire at enemy aircraft. It's a bit like moving from Bombardier station to bombsight view.

My only problem is that I can't easily man the turret and fly the plane at the same time!

[KG26_Alpha]

I think the guns reflect only the problems of RL like Air-drag.
Manual handled defence armament just isn't easy to handle! Live with it.
I personally find the pleas for more arcade pityful, learn to cope with it or go to arcade settings, maybe it is easier there.

Erm

No
No
and No

Thxz for that !!

Until they start making the fighters ammo more realistic like guns jamming, loss of air pressure, misfiring, g lock on the belts then we can call things realistic and live with it,
until then make life easier for the bombers pilots the work load is simply unrealistic.






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[ElAurens]

I have no problem with realistic traverse limits, which I'm still dubious that the AI have, and even locking/unlocking the mount is OK, but the number of key assignments necessary for what in real life on these earlier aircraft was simply a manual task, I.E., just moving your arms/body at the waist to aim/traverse, is way off the mark.

One of the great features we all looked forward to was multi crewed aircraft in the online/DF arena. As it stands now the only way you can do this is to totally dedicate yourself to being a gunner and setting up your controls solely for that purpose. Which of course is just wrong headed. I'd love to be able to man a gunner position while one of my squadmates flew the aircraft, but as it stands I won't bother, as I will not sacrifice my ability to fly an aircraft because there are simply not enough buttons to assign to be an effective (even marginally) gunner as well.

This needs a re-think.