Sony HMZ-T1 VR Headset

[dave74737]

Review 1: http://gizmodo.com/5857709/sony-hmz+t1-3dtv-headset-review-an-amazing-toy

Review 2: http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/10/2552518/sony-hmz-t1-personal-3d-viewer-review

Nvidia 3d Support: http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=215785

Somebody has already resolved the lack of head tracking.. :) : http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/19/sonys-hmz-t1-headset-gets-a-diy-vr-upgrade-video/


So, who will be first on the forum to get their hands on this? I recall seeing some discussions on how to activate nvidia 3d with IL2 COD (and some posts from Luthier) - where do we stand on support for that?

Its on my xmas list, but I don't expect Santa to be that kind at $800 USD (more expensive in Europe as always sadly). Still, from a technical perspective its the best headset I have seen for a while, and is is the first of the stereo 780p OLED headsets - hopefully 1080p in the next version?


Cheers,

Dave.

[engadin]

And we can dream a bit more and mate this helmet with Kinect to actuate both stick and throttle and levers and buttons and ..... http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=364113#post364113.

Engadin.

[Kupsised]

Thanks for the reviews! I've got my eye on one of these, though every time I talk about it the missus pulls a face and laughs, but a man can dream! I've been waiting for people to buy them and see how they are, and they seem good, except perhaps not suited for two-hour long bombing sorties or fighter sweeps judging by what's being said about the weight of the thing.

The only major problem I see with it though is having to press buttons etc. by feel. Mostly it's fine since I can touch type, but if your eyes are totally closed off and you put your hand on the wrong button you could end up dropping bombs at 50ft instead of putting your gear down or something of the like. As was pointed out, Kinect working with this would be brilliant, but then it would require a fully animated pilot model that moves along with you in the cockpit, something which I think would be such as massive and complicated task to do (and most importantly to get right) it's unlikely anyone would bother, at least right now.

[Madfish]

Personally I'm waiting for the Carl Zeiss Cinemizer OLED HMD.

They're superior to the SONY and have been presented "long" ago. However, since SONY literally works with Zeiss all the time (think optics for their cameras, phones, smartphones etc.) it's possible that there is something going on in the background here that prevents a release of the new cinemizer oled.

I believe they're superior because they are less heavy (less strain), have a better wear concept (not these nasty straps that really hurt) and the better / more flexible audio solution (no weird "drop down" headphones).
I assume they have the same screens (SONY makes them) and lenses (I assume Zeiss makes these).

I'll not get the SONY's. They aren't made for gaming. Unless you want to deal with the pain and marks on your head. I don't play for only 30 mins or so and that makes me kind of want to wait for a more comfortable model. But it's great news as it'll certainly bring the HMD devices forward again and they are better than ANYTHING out there. (tripple screens, big screens, projectors etc.)

[JumpingHubert]

wow, good step in the right direction. Not as expensive like these ones http://www.sensics.com/products/product-selector.php

[JumpingHubert]

wow, good step in the right direction. Not as expensive like these ones
http://www.sensics.com/products/product-selector.php
here is a another one:
http://www.siliconmicrodisplay.com/st1080-features.html

the most interesting point for me is
1. resolution and
2. field of view

[hc_wolf]

I have the cash laying around. I will buy one when they get serious and build it with 180 degree FOV (wrap around) and a resolution double 1920*1080p. Head tracking is solved if you have track IR. Just build a damn good VR goggles under $1000 for god sake and stop pussy footing around with pathetic resolution. We should have had these 10 years ago.

[engadin]

I have the cash laying around.

Would you mind telling us were your home is, I have the certainty some of us are willing to pay you a polite visit to know how you are feelling these days, share a nice tea cup with you and so on .....

[hc_wolf]

Would you mind telling us were your home is, I have the certainty some of us are willing to pay you a polite visit to know how you are feelling these days, share a nice tea cup with you and so on .....

The benefits of been ALMOST middle 30's and no kids ahahaha!!! I do like tea. Don't look under the couch pillow if I turn my back ;)

My point was ...despite the money. Why the hell is VR technology so behind the times. I have a god damn GTX580 that can heat a room playing skyrim and clod on full graphics at 100 plus min frame rates and yet some beedy-eyed technical electronics geek can't develop a 180 FOV headset which when on your head looks like you are staring out into the open world not just a 42 to 100" flat screen at 1- 3 meters for $39,000... I got that already with a 42" screen on my desk. But the stupid LCD tv's only can do 1920x1080 GEES!!! So annoying .... At very minimum develop some bloody TV's with 7920 res. Make my gtx580 think twice at least....

Rant over.. :)

[recoilfx]

The benefits of been ALMOST middle 30's and no kids ahahaha!!! I do like tea. Don't look under the couch pillow if I turn my back ;)

My point was ...despite the money. Why the hell is VR technology so behind the times. I have a god damn GTX580 that can heat a room playing skyrim and clod on full graphics at 100 plus min frame rates and yet some beedy-eyed technical electronics geek can't develop a 180 FOV headset which when on your head looks like you are staring out into the open world not just a 42 to 100" flat screen at 1- 3 meters for $39,000... I got that already with a 42" screen on my desk. But the stupid LCD tv's only can do 1920x1080 GEES!!! So annoying .... At very minimum develop some bloody TV's with 7920 res. Make my gtx580 think twice at least....

Rant over.. :)

I was wondering about the same thing until i realized that slim display techs just recently became mainstream. The very first hurdle was to get regular lcd production up. Then came the big screen TVS. Finally with the advent with retina display cell phone screens, manufactures finally can produce VR headsets at an 'economical' level.

So yeah, the tech was there, but the cost of tooling required cost too much. Look at Apple, they finally cracked it with their retina display, but even then, the manufactures are experiencing heavy delays with a retina ipad display 10" screens.

[klem]

here is a another one:
http://www.siliconmicrodisplay.com/st1080-features.html

the most interesting point for me is
1. resolution and
2. field of view

Quite nice at 6 oz but I'd want to turn off the stereo audio and probably keep my good old Medusa headphones/surround soud plus the TIR head clip of course.

No price yet and I'm trying to make my christmas list :(

[Jamir]

My HMZ-T1 arrives monday and i'm ready to give some test run with it soon i get hand's on it. I have not still figuret out how to use CoD's native 3D rendering with 3DVision or what do i need to do to fly in 3D. I have not ben flying too much lately and my quick 3D test with H5360 was not so good, did not get native 3D rendering to work and there is no profile for it in the nVidia drivers...But i'm sure it will be quite good experience to fly with HMZ-T1 + TIR5 in Stereo3D :)

[recoilfx]

Please let us know your experience!! I am looking at the headset with great interest!

[recoilfx]

here is a another one:
http://www.siliconmicrodisplay.com/st1080-features.html

the most interesting point for me is
1. resolution and
2. field of view

The FOV is 45 degrees diagonal, where as HMZ is 45 horizontal(51 diagonal). HMZ would be more immersive in this regard.

[Jamir]

Damn i can't find the StereoMode line anymore in conf.ini. Is it removed for good or will it return? Can't find any info about this. I hope StereoMode will return and more modes are supported in the future...

[phoenix1963]

I was professionally interested in VR headsets about 15 years ago for visualisation.

What has killed the technology until now is the issue of eyestrain.

Basically, if your binocular vision tells you an object is 10 feet away, then your eyes will hunt for focus at that distance, but most VR headsets are either at a fixed distance, or have optics that put it at infinity.

Sorry to pour cold water, maybe they have tested it enough to know eyestrain no longer matters. Look forward to hearing how it goes.

56RAF_phoenix



I was wondering about the same thing until i realized that slim display techs just recently became mainstream. The very first hurdle was to get regular lcd production up. Then came the big screen TVS. Finally with the advent with retina display cell phone screens, manufactures finally can produce VR headsets at an 'economical' level.

So yeah, the tech was there, but the cost of tooling required cost too much. Look at Apple, they finally cracked it with their retina display, but even then, the manufactures are experiencing heavy delays with a retina ipad display 10" screens.

[Jamir]

I think no one has complained eyestrain with this unit but it could be that it's too heavy to wear long time :grin: .I think these force you to focus quite long distance so if you are nearsighted and need glasses you need to use them with this set too. So if there is no eyestrain with 3D projector then i think it's safe to assume it no issue here either and with 2 oled's there is also no ghosting or flickering. I think biggest issue is weight and lack of comfort for long runs. I'm soon to find out how it all work, too bad there is no 3D for CoD at the moment so 3D flight testing i'm using RoF.

[Jamir]

Well there is an options how to use TIR with these. If you have that led clip for it then it's all set, it will work fine. I have that reflective metal thing and i will just tape it front of the unit. One can also put that reflective tape to it and your ready to go. Then just place TIR unit front of you :grin:

[Madfish]

I have the cash laying around. I will buy one when they get serious and build it with 180 degree FOV (wrap around) and a resolution double 1920*1080p. Head tracking is solved if you have track IR. Just build a damn good VR goggles under $1000 for god sake and stop pussy footing around with pathetic resolution. We should have had these 10 years ago.

You really know your stuff eh? *facepalm*

We're talking about OLEDs here. The resolution is fine. Sure 1080 would be better but be realistic. Do you have any clue how complex these optics are?

Also you request completely silly things and TrackIR is NOT working as it only covers a laughable angle. Why buy an HMD if your head movements are not translated 1:1? You could stick with a projector / current gen displays.

The most important things needed are:
- full tracking support e.g. 1:1
- focal depth and eye tracking to prevent harming the eye and irritation / strain
- extremely reduced weight for a strainless experience and to keep the HMD in place during rapid head and / or body movements



I'm in the same boat as phoenix1963. I worked with these things and often try to give them a chance but the technology isn't there yet still.
Additionally people / potential customers hold back development because they request the most silly things like FOV (every human has a unique FOV, you can't do this perfectly in hardware currently), resolution (the resolution alone has NOTHING to do with image quality) etc.

[Jamir]

I know TIR5 with these is not perfect but i know it will be a LOT better then standstill monitor front of me. Anyway i'm planning to do something like this in near future -----> http://www.arduino.cc/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1231185714

[MACADEMIC]

I wonder why Sony did not include an electronic gyro and accelerometer in the unit. It would have allowed 1:1 headtracking. Could imagine though that they've extensively tried and tested this.

Perhaps a reason why they didn't is that the optics only work properly when all is precisely in place and that head movements would lead to too much position shift? Or did they find it would lead to motion sickness?

Anyway, looking forward to more reports from early adopters, such as this one: http://widescreengamingforum.com/forum/forums/stereoscopic-3d-gaming/general-stereoscopic-3d-discussions/18223/sony-hmz-t1-hmd-head-m

MAC

[Jamir]

I wonder why Sony did not include an electronic gyro and accelerometer in the unit. It would have allowed 1:1 headtracking. Could imagine though that they've extensively tried and tested this.

Perhaps a reason why they didn't is that the optics only work properly when all is precisely in place and that head movements would lead to too much position shift? Or did they find it would lead to motion sickness?

Anyway, looking forward to more reports from early adopters, such as this one: http://widescreengamingforum.com/forum/forums/stereoscopic-3d-gaming/general-stereoscopic-3d-discussions/18223/sony-hmz-t1-hmd-head-m

MAC

I think motion sickness will be problem for some users with or without headtracking. It's issue for sure if headtracking is not up the task and there is no easy and cost effective solution to do 1:1 tracking without lag and drift +other issues. So to me it's good thing not to have tracking built in, price would have been much higher or it would have been useless at this price...

[Madfish]

I believe that the issue with gyros is that they are not locking very well, especially considering rapid head movements / rotation. They are inert but not fixed in space. Sooner or later you'd lose your horizontal focus point. And that'd be a hazzle for "normal" people I guess.

Head tracking currently doesn't just not work well with it. It's damn irritating to me. The difference between a static screen environment and an HMD is that you're much less immerged and your brain doesn't get tricked by it. I just hate the feeling of an HMD with a tracking ratio other than 1:1 because my senses are governed by instinct and fast response from the brain and not by outside restrictions like IR tracking systems. It's just a pain to always search around the screen because your head automatically moved and found the picture out of place.

That said the ardunio solution might prove to be interesting but comes with the issues of usability and most importantly weight! It's so uncomfortable. Also keep in mind that naturalpoint with it's damn criminal attempts to monopolize the tracker market literally dampens these efforts to almost zero as you can't interface with most games. Freetrack anyone?
Also the only solution to cover the issue of even more weight is a helmet system that spreads the weight and takes away these rediculous strap solutions. However I need not tell you guys what a pain it is to wear a full helmet for hours. After all we're armchair pilots down here on the ground. :p

Add to this the issues I mentioned on the last page and you'll find that, once the euphoric feelings are gone you either want a better system or don't want to deal with the downsides anymore. For me it's that I want a better, lighter, focus sensitive and full tracking device before I can really feel comfortable with it. The only thing I could sacrifice is the eye focus part since that'd require support by the games anyways and I doubt we'll see this very soon.

[TomcatViP]

You are absolutely true.

But all they need now is to separate the head tracking unit and the display (what did Natural point but in the other way ;) )

Kinect techno might give some helps here.

What surprise me the most is the poor plastics and low ergonomic. At the age of integrated dev with CAD system that have a full array of tools to do it right from start I am quite amazed...

[klem]

One solution to full headtracking could be something like the magnetic flux detection system that was used on some military simulator visuals back in th 80's. It was used to track the pilots eye vector or 'Area of Interest' for projecting high difinition display only where it was needed against a lower resolution 360' background - a remedy to the processing power needed and the limited technology of the day. The magnetic source was carried on the top of the helmet (read headset strap for us) and a detector fixed to the canopy overhead. It could perhaps be done with LEDs similar to TrackIR but allowing much more rotation of the head.

For that to be useful you would need these goggles or perhaps three or more displays because you would not be facing forward when "looking over your shoulder", something TrackIR currently manages to do on one screen.

[Jamir]

Well i did quick test with TIR5. There absolutely no issue with non 1:1 tracking and this HMD but there is a bit lag even in TIR5 and it really is bad with HMD so i think close to zero lag is needed. TIR5 is ok with slow movement and it feels so good and natural even without 1:1 but fast movement is something you do not want to do with latency high as this(even it's quite low with TIR5). There is also NO issue with screen go of focus when moving head, i did not get it out of focus no matter how fast i moved my head and did sudden stops, it will not move when fitted correctly. I will do some more testing and try to adjust TIR5 to see if it helps(maybe lower smoothness give faster response?)...Image quality is very good but pixelgrid is visible sometimes. It does not fit my head too well :(

[MACADEMIC]

Any update on how it's going with the HMD Jamir? You've had it for a week now. Better than your previous screen? Can you recommend it?

MAC

[recoilfx]

One solution to full headtracking could be something like the magnetic flux detection system that was used on some military simulator visuals back in th 80's. It was used to track the pilots eye vector or 'Area of Interest' for projecting high difinition display only where it was needed against a lower resolution 360' background - a remedy to the processing power needed and the limited technology of the day. The magnetic source was carried on the top of the helmet (read headset strap for us) and a detector fixed to the canopy overhead. It could perhaps be done with LEDs similar to TrackIR but allowing much more rotation of the head.

For that to be useful you would need these goggles or perhaps three or more displays because you would not be facing forward when "looking over your shoulder", something TrackIR currently manages to do on one screen.

Klem,
Have you seen this? http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.228849000

Razer Hydra uses magnetic positioning (from the base) and claims to be super accurate. Not sure how it can be hooked into one of the head tracker protocols since it defaults to mouse movements.

There is scripting capability, but I am not sure if it can be outputted as a joystick. If it's possible we maybe able to use glovepie and go from hydra->joystick->glovepie->fakektrackir

[klem]

Klem,
Have you seen this? http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.228849000

Razer Hydra uses magnetic positioning (from the base) and claims to be super accurate. Not sure how it can be hooked into one of the head tracker protocols since it defaults to mouse movements.

There is scripting capability, but I am not sure if it can be outputted as a joystick. If it's possible we maybe able to use glovepie and go from hydra->joystick->glovepie->fakektrackir

I'd like to see a Youtube of it in action although it looks like only hand controllers.

I was thinking more of perhaps LEDs on top of the headset pointing up to a camera somehow fixed above the head although for that to work we may have to strap ourselves into a flightseat to keep reasonably centrally located ! :)

[Mage_016]

Any new on this, is there any owners who have played flight games with this? How did it feel? Was it so good that you can recommend it? Or shall we wait upcoming models.

I guess that there will be new models coming even in this year, hopefully with better mounting. Read about really bad difficulties with mounting this on your head.

But imagine this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbs0myDheaM&feature=youtu.be&hd=1) and full hd hmd with head tracking...

Thanks for the video Mac!