IL2 1946 style CooP mission ? [Archive] - Official Fulqrum Publishing forum

KG26_Alpha

11-18-2011, 04:22 PM

Really hoping or wishing for this............

Just wondering if there's anyway to do it ?

Ready Room
Clients
1. Select aircraft
2. Arm aircraft
3. Ready up

Host sees clients
1. Selected aircraft
2. Ready status
3. Launch mission (start battle) when all ready.

With the proviso.
All aircraft ready for take off as mission is launched with All pilots starting at the same time.

Debriefing Room
1. Pilots mission results points or shared kills.
2. Pilots status , captured landed killed etc etc
3. Mission results territory or red/blue won

Close mission

Also the option to reload a mission without closing the Coop Server, all the Mission Load does is continue the current mission.

I really miss the IL2 1946 CooP style mission layout.

:)

JG52Uther

11-18-2011, 06:18 PM

I really miss the IL2 1946 CooP style mission layout.

:)
Same. Maybe there is a way to do it but nobody has figured it out yet. The old il2 coop system was excellent, if we could have that back, with all the bells and whistles of CoD I would be a happy man. I miss coop based online wars :(

Ataros

11-18-2011, 06:25 PM

I keep reminding the devs about 1946-style coops on sukhoi.ru. In the meantime you can use naryv's script and modify it to meet all the needs and features you mentioned http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=354537#post354537

Win/loss condition depends on mission maker how he or she programs it. Several people are working on online statistics for CloD. I think it will meet all mentioned requirements when combined with the above script.

KG26_Alpha

11-19-2011, 12:29 PM

I've tried that script and its not working unfortunately.

Its just a normal CooP but with all AI idle and they never take off.

katdogfizzow

11-19-2011, 12:48 PM

Man I hope so. Its really the only reason I bought the game. I hope to see it working soon. I'll have to try that script...thanks Ataros

Ataros

11-19-2011, 02:04 PM

I've tried that script and its not working unfortunately.

Its just a normal CooP but with all AI idle and they never take off.

I tried it too but alone. As soon as I selected a plane and then "2." from the Mission Menu AI started engines and took off. There were some malfunction though when I tried to change plane in flight iirc, but the script is not intended for this.

AI goes from idle only when all players select 2. from the menu as described. The script must be running (have the same name as mission file). If the script places you into a cockpit automatically this means that a script is running. If not, you can open console and look for errors.

I think usual difficulty checkboxes in server settings must be unchecked to allow it running correctly (like side switching, etc.)

KG26_Alpha

11-19-2011, 06:06 PM

I tried it too but alone. As soon as I selected a plane and then "2." from the Mission Menu AI started engines and took off. There were some malfunction though when I tried to change plane in flight iirc, but the script is not intended for this.

AI goes from idle only when all players select 2. from the menu as described. The script must be running (have the same name as mission file). If the script places you into a cockpit automatically this means that a script is running. If not, you can open console and look for errors.

I think usual difficulty checkboxes in server settings must be unchecked to allow it running correctly (like side switching, etc.)

I will have a look again my problem was as soon as a side was selected it threw me ito the mission in a cockpit.

Ataros

11-20-2011, 09:27 AM

I will have a look again my problem was as soon as a side was selected it threw me ito the mission in a cockpit.

This is how this script is supposed to work.

How it works?
Upon side selection a player is automatically moved into one of available planes. Then if he does not like the plane selection he can choose another airgroup, aircraft or position via the Mission Menu: press TAB then 4 , etc. When a player is happy with the selection he should confirm that he is ready to fly via selecting "2" in the menu.

Otherwise you would not be able to change or select planes in some cases because data about planes located beyond 20km radius from a player is not transmitted by CloD network code. This is the reason why we have WPF.Unavailable message in aircraft-lists very often. Default player position is lower left corner of the map as far as I know and in case an airgroup is located more then 20 km away we have to change player position to a closer one before the player can occupy a seat in the airgroup. This is the difference from original Il-2 network code that causes issues with coop.

KG26_Alpha

11-20-2011, 02:49 PM

This is how this script is supposed to work.

Otherwise you would not be able to change or select planes in some cases because data about planes located beyond 20km radius from a player is not transmitted by CloD network code. This is the reason why we have WPF.Unavailable message in aircraft-lists very often. Default player position is lower left corner of the map as far as I know and in case an airgroup is located more then 20 km away we have to change player position to a closer one before the player can occupy a seat in the airgroup. This is the difference from original Il-2 network code that causes issues with coop.

All I can see that script doing is some sort of work around for the Channel map being able to be used in a Frankenstein type CooP.

I was thinking more along the original IL2 1946 CooP's , it worked perfectly well.

Why is it so different ?

Why cant they simply make it the same or very similar to the old system ?

At the moment there's no scoring system or mission win/loose no ready room / debriefing room, its a mess to be honest.

It needs the 1C team to rethink the CooP GUI and fix it properly.

See my original post.

Ataros

11-20-2011, 03:09 PM

Why is it so different ?

I think because Oleg did not manage or was not allowed to finish it. Now the team probably has different urgent priorities to keep the project alive. It is better than having the project completely closed imho.

I keep reminding the devs about 1946-style coops on sukhoi.ru. In the meantime you can use naryv's script and modify it to meet all the needs and features you mentioned http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=354537#post354537

Win/loss condition depends on mission maker how he or she programs it. Several people are working on online statistics for CloD. I think it will meet all mentioned requirements when combined with the above script.

KG26_Alpha

11-20-2011, 06:20 PM

I think because Oleg did not manage or was not allowed to finish it. Now the team probably has different urgent priorities to keep the project alive. It is better than having the project completely closed imho.

Hmm lot of speculation there.................

It don't matter who didn't finish it, it's an important part of multi-player and getting the sim/game online with more than just the necessary "experten" scripted Dogfight servers

This is not a user friendly approach to multi-player in CoD lets hope they fix it soon.

:grin:

KG26_Alpha

11-20-2011, 07:20 PM

The new system looks to be infinitely more customizable, we just got to figure out what works and what doesn't. Having to code doesn't help, but its a new game, new system to learn.

Nothing to learn if it don't exist :grin:

Anyway my primary purchase reason was for CooP missions and the FMB with its new features etc etc.................

Guess I'll join the queue and wait quietly.

:cool:

Ataros

11-21-2011, 07:57 AM

This is not a user friendly approach to multi-player in CoD lets hope they fix it soon.

:grin:

Quite agree with this. User-friendliness was lost together with Oleg's perfectionism imho. Hope it comes back soon.

PS. BTW I think Kodiak or other experienced C# programmers can modify naryv's script to do anything that it does not do yet. However the thread about the script received only a few replies which means that the demand is not very high either.

KG26_Alpha

11-21-2011, 10:17 AM

Quite agree with this. User-friendliness was lost together with Oleg's perfectionism imho. Hope it comes back soon.

PS. BTW I think Kodiak or other experienced C# programmers can modify naryv's script to do anything that it does not do yet. However the thread about the script received only a few replies which means that the demand is not very high either.

Because its working as a CooP script, only as a work around to fly on the Channel Map without using Dog Fight spawn bases.

Its just as easy to use normal CooP mode on other maps as it don't really do much else in that respect.

6BL Bird-Dog

11-24-2011, 09:11 PM

I would also like to see the Coop setup change to something similar to the old iL2 Coop one especialy with all the new features of Cliffs of Dover .
I like the idea of scripting triggers ,commands etc but would like to see a simpler way being to do it in the mission builder as I have no idea about writing scripts although I have looked at some of the posts on the subject.
I have been mucking about in the Rise of Flight mission builder where they have made insertable MCU`s for which the properties can be set quite easily by a right click advanced properties menue.
Triggers,Ojectives and server responces can be set quite simply with a few clicks of the mouse.Perhaps later something like this could be intergrated into CloD.

Ataros

11-25-2011, 09:56 AM

insertable MCU`s

What is the MCU?

6BL Bird-Dog

12-02-2011, 10:32 PM

I don`t know the what MCU stands for but they can be inserted onto the mission builder and can be attached to aircraft objects etc .
The simplest trigger type is the waypoint but there are also many other types ,eg,timers & zone proximty triggers.
These can be interlinked with other types of MCU ,eg Commands or Translators so depending on how you set them up a whole sequence of events can happen when the trigger is activated.
A simple example would be a player flying within a set distance of a target would trigger a flight of enemy aircraft to take off from a nearby airbase to intercept.
The Attached screenie shows some of the MCU on the right of the screen.
I have only just started playing around with the mission builder but there are many useful videos up on youtube on how operate it made by members of the Rise of Flight Community.

6BL Bird-Dog

12-03-2011, 08:43 AM

Hi Cheesehawk,
The `Object`is not an object as such but by adding & setting the advanced perameters of the subject it applies to, at a gues, I would say it probably writes the scripting in the mission file for you .
It would be a bit more user freindly to us scripting dunces (me):)
There are a few good you tube-vids that show its use better than I can explain it & quite a few complicated parameters can be set quickly and all with a few clicks of the mouse to meet the same outcome as achieved by the script writing method of CloD.This site has some good tracks on the RoF mission builder.I think the triggers are from track 4 onwards.
http://www.youtube.com/user/bvanderstok

FG28_Kodiak

12-03-2011, 09:09 AM

KG26_Alpha

12-04-2011, 09:16 PM

All what you can do with mcu's, i can do with scripts, and much much much more. And i don't need to do it in every mission i build, mostly i simply copy a old script from me to the new mission.
I've tried the missionbuilder from RoF also, but i prefer the FMB and the scripting of CloDo.

What about all the "old" IL2 1946 FMB users (like me) that want a point and click CoD FMB without having to make scripts to get triggers working and get the other new features opened up.

I want objects to set triggers like a radius trigger, anything flies into it use a "set"or "attach" option, attach a flight of whatever to it and set the flights parameters, they spawn in if the radius is triggered, and a fight starts out in that area, why do I have to have a complicated script for this ?

Gimme Point n click objects ..................... I'm too old to learn new stuff :)

.

_1SMV_Poppy_64

12-09-2011, 07:32 PM

I think that the COD Developing team doesn't understand what 80% of pilots wants:

the real simmer people needs not only online server to do a simple dogfight also with a lot of scripts.

People wants a simple way to build a good mission, with aircraft, ships, objects, colums WITHOUT SCRIPTS!!!

Dear develop team, try to understand this:

there is no future for COD in this way. Old IL2 is more simple and stable and very interesting tournaments are running... SEOW, BELLUM as example.

bye.

adonys

12-09-2011, 09:12 PM

you sir, are wrong! scripting adds a whole new dimension to the missions.

it's just that mos of the scripts needs to be made and made public.

jg66bigglescdn

12-09-2011, 10:02 PM

IMO the single biggest thing keeping people from buying and flying CLOD more than at present is the lack of IL2 1946 style coops. The sooner a more user friendly approach is ready the better - both for sales and for users.

Cheers!

Biggs

_1SMV_Poppy_64

12-10-2011, 11:37 AM

you sir, are wrong! scripting adds a whole new dimension to the missions.

it's just that mos of the scripts needs to be made and made public.

Dear Adonys,

I'm trying to explain here what I mean regarding programming and script (that I've allready wrote in other posts):

I love programming (me and my development team have rewritten the entire scripts in php and pearl of Bellum tournament www.1smv.it/badc and international: www.1smv-wings.it) so, we know what is scripting...

First: The real problem is that COD has not a script manual! Where are the functions, classes, objects list? We have to understand how to write a function reading the downloaded script from this forum?

Second: COD has a lot of BUG, is not stable (but payed).

Third: The real simulation is not flown on an online server with guys that enter and leave the mission as they want. The real simulation is when 20, 30, 50 and more pilots take a meeting to start a big and historical mission (see SEOW tournament www.22gct.it)... now READ THIS:

COD is not for expert tournaments: STARTING A MISSION LIKE THIS IS A TERRIBLE EXPERIENCE, did you try to enter in a mission with just only 40 pilots in the same time?

fourth: did you try to build a mission? Check how many bugs are in the object windows.

I have no more words to explain to COD develop team this idea: COD need to think to expert simmer. With all respect for all players.

Arrivederci.

WarFox101

12-10-2011, 12:17 PM

If we are going to have to write scrips give us a manual.

JG53_Valantine

12-10-2011, 05:42 PM

JG53 is a co-op squadron rather than an online wars squadron. The big issues we are running into having recently switched over to the CloD engine are that getting everyone spawned in on the same airfield at the same time frequently sees the launcher crash for lots of pilots, so to counter this we are having to do a staggered spawn with schwarm one spawning, taxiing to runway and taking off then second schwarm does the same, then third, and so on meaning ti can take upto 15 minutes for all schwarms to get airborne before we are even able to get in formation and proceed with the mission.

Secondly, when the schwarms finally meet the stability issues tend to kick in as the engine doesn't seem to be able to cope with 12+ players flying close together and entering combat together, even against a flight of 6 hurricanes lots of members experience the launcher crash due to the memory leak.

Seeing the return of proper styled co-ops would be ideal here, I'm not even asking for the neat aircraft lined up style of IL2, just being able to run co-ops that don't crash where pilots can select an aircraft present but use their own skin and weapon loadout woudl be great.

The way things are at the moment we cannot run really close, co-operative and teamwork focused missions as whenever too many pilots are in the same location the game cannot cope with the strain and crashes.

Trying to organise realistic missions under the current system is, at present, a real pain in the backside.
I'm not against the scripting, we just need a stable game that doesn't constantly crash when trying to run as close to the old style co-ops as possible.

CloD has a lot of potential, it just needs the time and effort put into making it better, I'm excited for the future of it, but right now I can't help but feel a little fustrated that these issues haven't been resolved.
V

JG53_Valantine

12-10-2011, 07:31 PM

Ataros

12-11-2011, 07:51 AM

Where are the functions, classes, objects list?

If you import CloD dlls into the Studio you can see all available interfaces. Everyone familiar with C# had no problem writing scripts, missions or campaigns.

Ataros

12-11-2011, 07:55 AM

If we are going to have to write scrips give us a manual.

As one of knowledgeable people mentioned on this forum "The only manual that can be really helpful is "C# for dummies"". Developers will not write it because it is already written by others (free courses available on the internet).

Ataros

12-11-2011, 07:59 AM

Sadly it's mainly all at the same time or within 30 seconds of one-another regardless of PC spec.
Most of use have pretty high spec machines and have all gone through most of the performance tweeks hinted at on this site such as the reinstall of CloD after using the beta patches, using gamebooster etc.
On occasions those with lesser machines get the launcher crash first, but it is always a matter of time before we all get it. Longest anyone has gone is about 2 and a bit hours on the ATAG server during "off peak" times.
With our missions the longest we ahve managed wtih anything more than 2 people is about 50 minutes providing we haven't formed up together, when we form up with about 10+ pilots it normally drops it to about 35mins before we all start getting launcher crashes.
V

In case you are not running x32 systems or bugged scripts this can be fixed with a new patch only probably. The devs are reworking the graphics engine and launcher crash is not present in their new version as Luthier mentioned. Hope we get it soon.

Try setting NET settings to xDSL or lower. Try not using zoom function while on an airfield. Zooming to engine exhaust flames causes crashes sometimes, especially when there are many planes around starting engines. Some particles in the engine exhaust may be bugged.

FG28_Kodiak

12-11-2011, 08:48 AM

And if external view is on, don't use it to often :rolleyes:.

KG26_Alpha

12-11-2011, 11:57 AM

If you import CloD dlls into the Studio you can see all available interfaces. Everyone familiar with C# had no problem writing scripts, missions or campaigns.

As one of knowledgeable people mentioned on this forum "The only manual that can be really helpful is "C# for dummies"". Developers will not write it because it is already written by others (free courses available on the internet).

This is not the way forwards for CoD, they seriously cant expect people to have to understand C# to make triggers and other FMB features work ?

If it stays this way it will all ways be a Dogfight Server game, very boring and useless for dynamic online campaigns.

Unless there's a huge change to bring True CooP missions (IL2 1946) style to CoD then it will remain as it is with a few DF servers running the same map over and over.

Fix the FMB & CooP interface please.

Ataros

12-12-2011, 07:21 AM

Fix the FMB & CooP interface please.

I agree it is a shame COOP is not completely fixed yet.

Regarding online wars as _1SMV_Poppy_64 mentions above they were created using php and pearl in original IL-2. Now they are created using C# instead (web interface is not required but possible). However it is a pity only 2 people are working on them ATM: 41Sqn_Banks and Small_Bee if I am not missing someone.

JG53Frankyboy

12-12-2011, 02:29 PM

that is part of the " proplem" in the moment IMO , the way CoD is handling the deeper FMB options has reduced the number of people working for the community. It will need some more time to enable almost the same amount of people working with the FMB for the community like in IL 2.
But its only 3/4 year after release now, IL2 needed also time to grow!

ACE-OF-ACES

12-13-2011, 02:35 AM

This is not the way forwards for CoD, they seriously cant expect people to have to understand C# to make triggers and other FMB features work ?
Well.. 1C is not alone in expecting people to understand 'a' language to make triggers and other missions features work..

Take the DCS series (Black Shark, A-10) for example.. They have the same mindset of 'a' language to do stuff

But

They went with a fare more obscure language called 'Lua'

Lua exporting in DCS (http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/dev_journal/lua-export/)

And microsofts FS 2004 mindset of 'a' language to do stuff was called Adventure Basic Language (ABL)

So at least 1C went with a more main stream language!

Which means you will have an easier time finding help on it

Osprey

12-13-2011, 08:31 PM

KG26_Alpha

12-14-2011, 01:28 PM

C# is absolutely the right thing to do. It makes the FMB more powerful than 46 ever could be. It is a matter of time before all of the 'wants' are answered via programming and the sharing that can be offered through the community.

Personally I'm trying to find a way to take offline missions and make them work online so I can run campaigns in MP. If anybody knows where I can find or do that please tell me :)

Look at how to make delayed spawn possible in CoD and compare that to old IL2 1946.

Then tell me its better ?

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28454

C# is more flexible in FMB scripting but its made the FMB non user friendly and time consuming.

We desperately need a manual on some screen shot tutorials as in the link above.

41Sqn_Banks

12-14-2011, 04:26 PM

Look at how to make delayed spawn possible in CoD and compare that to old IL2 1946.

Then tell me its better ?

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28454

C# is more flexible in FMB scripting but its made the FMB non user friendly and time consuming.

We desperately need a manual on some screen shot tutorials as in the link above.

There is no C# required for delayed spawning :o

Osprey

12-14-2011, 05:02 PM

I used to make the maps for the USL using Zuti MDS and nothing was more painful than getting the times of arrival right between groups because although you could stick a number in a field it wouldn't necessarily be correct - building a simple USL map easily took a day and much of that was AI timing. Also, only aircraft could be spawned on a timer, you could do nothing about ground forces. Now I can fire a trigger and run any code I want from that trigger.

What you will find is that although you may not know how to do it directly yourself you can get something written for you since C# is so widely used. In any case, the code for triggers is via a UI and is pretty straightforward. As for a manual, get a book on C# and a decent IDE (MS Visual Studio Express for C# is FREE) and you are away for anything more complex.

KG26_Alpha

12-14-2011, 09:22 PM

There is no C# required for delayed spawning :o

I wasn't talking about C# just the process involved now to do the simple things like delay spawn.

What you will find is that although you may not know how to do it directly yourself you can get something written for you since C# is so widely used. In any case, the code for triggers is via a UI and is pretty straightforward. As for a manual, get a book on C# and a decent IDE (MS Visual Studio Express for C# is FREE) and you are away for anything more complex.

I have MS Visual Studio & Sams C# and have been ploughing through it for the last 3 weeks.

It takes the fun of the FMB and its full features away from 99% of CoD owners though.

Hopefully a manual will be forthcoming that explains the functions like the difference between splines and simply adding vehicles to the map road systems.

.

Ataros

12-15-2011, 10:19 AM

Hopefully a manual will be forthcoming that explains the functions like the difference between splines and simply adding vehicles to the map road systems.

Only trains follow built-in road system. Others can cut corners.

Regarding delayed start "complexity", it is logical: we used to make calculations with a calculator (or pen and paper). Nowadays you have to buy a PC and MS Excel and then learn how the hell it works to simply sum yearly apartment-related payments.

I agree that a more user-friendly FMB would be a plus but do not think it will happen in 3-5 years because of other priorities. E.g. original IL-2 FMB usability was never improved. I never figured out how it worked back then and had to become a whole decade wiser to understand anything in it :grin: LOL