Another Red Arrows Incident..

[Herbs107]

Poor bugger, not a nice way to go...

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8371722/uk-pilot-dies-after-ejecting-from-plane

[drewpee]

Sad to think that such a thing can happen. Life can change in an instant. One minute your cruising along enjoying life then out of the blue, disaster. Everyone's life around you changed forever.
Mind you if he survived without injury he would probably never live it down with his mates. They may say things like "do you want the ladder to get down or are you using the ejecting seat today"

[McQ59]

2011 is going down in history as a really sad year for aviation enthusiasts.

RIP Sean Cunningham.

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/10827652-active-catapult-seats-in-the-earth-the-red-arrows-pilot-killed

[reflected]

So what exactly happened? He catapulted while on the ground and the parachute failed to deploy. Did he do it on purpose or did the catapult system go wrong? There was a bit that said "through the canopy". Really? Shuldn't it have been blown away?

[bongodriver]

It would seem that it was an 'inadvertent' ejection... i.e. the pilot did not initiate the sequence himself, it seems there was no emergency situation to warrant doing so, even in the event of a fire it is not recomended to eject on the ground, if it was inadvertent then it was likely a malfunction and that could mean the seat fired through the canopy because the fault may have been just in the seat rockets, that would explain things like parachutes not deploying too.

[Ali Fish]

within that news link i find it strange how they termed him as a "stunt" pilot. RIP. (surely they all have military backgrounds) which doesnt equate to being a stunt pilot.

[Sternjaeger II]

It would seem that it was an 'inadvertent' ejection... i.e. the pilot did not initiate the sequence himself, it seems there was no emergency situation to warrant doing so, even in the event of a fire it is not recomended to eject on the ground, if it was inadvertent then it was likely a malfunction and that could mean the seat fired through the canopy because the fault may have been just in the seat rockets, that would explain things like parachutes not deploying too.

AFAIK on the Hawk you're shot through the canopy anyway, the explosive charges that run on the canopy are meant to destroy it before the ejection sequence starts.
It would be interesting to know whether the plane was parked, just returned from a flight or was about to go for one, since one of the first thing the ground crews normally do is disarming the ejector seat by means of the safety pins (there should be 3 or 4 of them?).

[bongodriver]

AFAIK on the Hawk you're shot through the canopy anyway, the explosive charges that run on the canopy are meant to destroy it before the ejection sequence starts.
It would be interesting to know whether the plane was parked, just returned from a flight or was about to go for one, since one of the first thing the ground crews normally do is disarming the ejector seat by means of the safety pins (there should be 3 or 4 of them?).

yes but that's what I was saying, if it was a malfunction then the MDC probably wasn't set off, it would also be apparent that the aircraft had either not begun taxying or had just parked up..I say this because the aircraft didn't continue uncontrolled....it just looked parked up...but the canopy was closed....just missing the front section of glass.

[seaeye]

I used to work on the Mk.12 version of these seats, fitted to Harriers.

With all the safety pins in place, the seat is safe and cannot under any circumstances be ejected from the aircraft. So some of the pins, or all of them must have been removed. Also, I was told during my training that if the canopy MDC failed to initiate, the seat would push through the canopy regardless. The idea being, it's better to risk getting cut up by the canopy rather than simply crashing with the aircraft.

What has been reported (unconfirmed) in the UK is that the seat ejected while taxiing, but the parachute failed to deploy. Based on this infomation only it appears that some or all of the pins were out, and what has happened is a freak occurance. Initiated by the pilot or not, the drogue chute failed to deploy. If the drogue gun safety pin had been inadvertently left fitted, this could have the effect that has been reported.

Of course all this is speculation, but as I have actual experience of maintaining seats like the MK.10 it really made me wonder what might have gone wrong.

Here's a nice bit of info on the seat: Martin Baker - Mk.10 (http://www.martin-baker.com/products/Ejection-Seats/Mk--10.aspx)

[Sternjaeger II]

I used to work on the Mk.12 version of these seats, fitted to Harriers.

With all the safety pins in place, the seat is safe and cannot under any circumstances be ejected from the aircraft. So some of the pins, or all of them must have been removed. Also, I was told during my training that if the canopy MDC failed to initiate, the seat would push through the canopy regardless. The idea being, it's better to risk getting cut up by the canopy rather than simply crashing with the aircraft.

What has been reported (unconfirmed) in the UK is that the seat ejected while taxiing, but the parachute failed to deploy. Based on this infomation only it appears that some or all of the pins were out, and what has happened is a freak occurance. Initiated by the pilot or not, the drogue chute failed to deploy. If the drogue gun safety pin had been inadvertently left fitted, this could have the effect that has been reported.

Of course all this is speculation, but as I have actual experience of maintaining seats like the MK.10 it really made me wonder what might have gone wrong.

Here's a nice bit of info on the seat: Martin Baker - Mk.10 (http://www.martin-baker.com/products/Ejection-Seats/Mk--10.aspx)

yeah, even if there's an MDC failure, you have spears on top of the seat which are supposed to break through, isn't it?

[bongodriver]

yeah, even if there's an MDC failure, you have spears on top of the seat which are supposed to break through, isn't it?

There are but I wouldn't fancy being dragged through a broken canopy.

[PeterPanPan]

within that news link i find it strange how they termed him as a "stunt" pilot. RIP. (surely they all have military backgrounds) which doesnt equate to being a stunt pilot.

This is so very sad. And of course, he was not a 'stunt' pilot.

On completion of his flying training, Sean was posted to the Tornado GR4 aircraft serving on 617 ‘The Dambusters’ Squadron at Royal Air Force Lossiemouth. During his three years on the Squadron, Sean completed several operational tours of Iraq as part of Operation TELIC, flying close air support missions for Coalition ground forces.

More official info at http://www.raf.mod.uk/reds/teamnews/index.cfm?storyid=4E2AC127-5056-A318-A8A15586C7FD410D

RIP

PPP

[Ze-Jamz]

There are but I wouldn't fancy being dragged through a broken canopy.

Not a nice thought at all..

2 incidents in no time at all..crying shame and thoughts go out to their familys

[seaeye]

yeah, even if there's an MDC failure, you have spears on top of the seat which are supposed to break through, isn't it?

Yes, that's correct.

When these seats go wrong it is usually a result of a maintenance error or not sticking to procedure. It's a terrible thing to happen, but thankfully it doesn't happen very often when we're talking about these ejection seats at least.

Red Arrows are having a really sh*tty year, not least the families involved with both incidents. Very sad indeed.

[ATAG_Doc]

what's this button do...

[epoch]

what's this button do...

I so wish you were standing in front of me right now.

[Herbs107]

Back in the 80's a RAAF Mirage 3's seat went off when it was in for maintenance in a hangar. At the time a engineer was standing on it and all 3 safety pins were in place. The poor guy didnt stand a chance! The seat was a Martin Baker, they never found out what caused it to go off, but during the investigation they also found that the pressure required to deploy the seat in a ejection using either of the igniter handles was so much that a normal person couldnt set it off. During their career with the RAAF a few Mirages were lost where the pilot never ejected, this may or may not have been the cause.

[IvanK]

Back in the 80's a RAAF Mirage 3's seat went off when it was in for maintenance in a hangar. At the time a engineer was standing on it and all 3 safety pins were in place. The poor guy didnt stand a chance! The seat was a Martin Baker, they never found out what caused it to go off, but during the investigation they also found that the pressure required to deploy the seat in a ejection using either of the igniter handles was so much that a normal person couldnt set it off. During their career with the RAAF a few Mirages were lost where the pilot never ejected, this may or may not have been the cause.

Well I was there when the engineering Stuff up with Bottom handle pull off forces on the Mirage IIIO was found.

The original OM4 cartridge seat was up for replacement. Martin Baker suggested a drop in replacement MK10 with MDC (like the Belgians had already done) however the RAAF in its infinite wisdom (Saving $) decided no lets modify the OM4 to an OM6. This entailed adding the Rocket Motor pack. An additional component called a Remote Rocket initiator was added to the seat. All worked well on the test rig, but incredulously no over all system check was performed once the modded seat was fitted to the aircraft. In the Mirage III the first part of the sequence was to jettison the canopy 1 second !!!!! later the seat sequence began.

I was at 2OCU at the time as a Mirage FCI. OCU was the last squadron to have the moded seat fitted, furthermore the Simulator (Sim) was the very last cockpit fitted.

As part of the Students preparation for his first solo he was forced into an ejection decision. Students trying to pull the bottom handle on the modified Sim seat found they couldn't get full handle travel ... as a consequence the seat (as far as the Sim was concerned didn't fire) so the students all had unsuccessful ejections. So we instructors jumped in and voila there was the issue handle jammed after about 3cm travel. The Sim seat was written up as unserviceable. The Sim techs found the cause. When the handle was pulled The canopy jettison didn't occur as part of the mechanical components of the canopy jettison (A sear ) was impacting on the new Rocket Motor Initiation pack housing this in effect causing the seat pan handle to jam thus preventing ejection.

So it was then decided to do some pull off checks on real aircraft (with initiator cartridges removed) ... golly gosh same thing seat pan handle was jamming. .... We had been flying the aeroplanes post seat mod for 6 months like this ... not knowing Ejection was not possible !!. Eventually it was sorted and we got back to flying. It was however one of the most appalling stuff ups I ever witnessed, Fortunately prior to the discovery no one had the need to eject ... if they had it would have been very sad indeed.

I will never forget the morning brief when the Senior engineering officer briefed the assembled pilots on what had been found ... to say the mood was icy would have been an understatement ! Why no overall function check was carried out post mod still haunts me to this day.