Vision of the future (By Microsoft not raaaid)

[JG52Krupi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6cNdhOKwi0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ggmania.com%2F&feature=player_embedded

Even though its by Microsoft its a pretty cool video :-P.

[nearmiss]

LOL

All that tecnology and there are still bellhops, valet, drivers, cooks, clerks, and all the other non-techo to facilitate the efficient techo users. What a crock of cannoli.

It doesn't matter how far you push techno... there are still 7 billion people in the world that are going to need food, shelter, clothing and the majority of them will still be doing the minimal (non-techo) jobs that no one wants to do.

Microsoft is not representing of anything, but stuff they promote. If they are so darn cool and smart why is the backend to their latest operating system still DOS, a A forty year old system software. Innovation is basically stagnant. We only have embellishments using the old technologies from the late 60's for the most part.

[JG52Krupi]

LMAO

Agree 100% I am no fan of Microsoft... perhaps it should be called future of 1st world countries ;)

I was arguing with some guys at work who believe in the future of automated travel and while im sure it will be like that one day they seemed completely oblivous to the facts that you mentioned... how would the lorry, bus, taxi and aircraft drivers feel when they are given the middle finger.... It will be reminiscent of the Luddite's.

[JG52Krupi]

Think its time for another hiatus from this forum ;)

[Kongo-Otto]

Yes The Future is bright and shiny------------------------>well at least for those who can afford it!

[Sternjaeger II]

Microsoft should write stuff for Star Trek, their vision of the future is a waste of time and money, they should leave this stuff to Apple and think about releasing an OS that actually works half as good as Mac OSX lol

Jobs was damn right: folks at Micro$oft lack the vision..

[Kongo-Otto]

Jobs was damn right: folks at Micro$oft lack the vision..

Well Jobs wont have visions anymore, thats for sure.

put an apple on it and people whould buy even Horse Dung, just because its a "must have" :rolleyes:

[Sternjaeger II]

Well Jobs wont have visions anymore, thats for sure.

put an apple on it and people whould buy even Horse Dung, just because its a "must have" :rolleyes:

fortunately Jonathan Ive is still alive and kicking, he was the conceptual engineer behind the latest series of successful Apple products, he lived and worked in symbiosis with Jobs, but the true creations were their brainchildren.

Jobs was surely an inspiration, and although his manners and attitude might have been questionable to many, he still made things happen.

The comment about putting an apple on things probably means that either you never used an Apple device or you can't afford one, cos they all work better than any other PC technology, and that is a fact.

[Kongo-Otto]

The comment about putting an apple on things probably means that either you never used an Apple device or you can't afford one, cos they all work better than any other PC technology, and that is a fact.

I buy apple devices on a daily Base, today i had apple pie and yesterday i had apple juice. :-P

Well everytime when i want to buy something the first i think is "do i really need it" and then i buy it or not, its as simple as that.
I have no use for IPhone, i just need a cell phone, so i dont buy it, but in my circle of friends and acquaintances, almost every one bought IPhones because its a "must have" to be seen with. I still have my W595 thats good for me, i dont need more.
And i dont really care about Steve Jobs, the guy is dead get over it.
I dont give a dam who is inventing the stuff i buy, regardless of whether his Name is Steve Jobs or Puppulu Frufullu, i dont care about such hype.

And btw i surely can afford Apple products, but such huge amount of money i do rather spend them for beer and alcohol and a good party. ;)

[AndyJWest]

Frankly, I'd rather live in a future designed by Raaaid than one designed by Microsoft... :-P

[Sven]

I buy apple devices on a daily Base, today i had apple pie and yesterday i had apple juice. :-P

Well everytime when i want to buy something the first i think is "do i really need it" and then i buy it or not, its as simple as that.
I have no use for IPhone, i just need a cell phone, so i dont buy it, but in my circle of friends and acquaintances, almost every one bought IPhones because its a "must have" to be seen with. I still have my W595 thats good for me, i dont need more.
And i dont really care about Steve Jobs, the guy is dead get over it.
I dont give a dam who is inventing the stuff i buy, regardless of whether his Name is Steve Jobs or Puppulu Frufullu, i dont care about such hype.

And btw i surely can afford Apple products, but such huge amount of money i do rather spend them for beer and alcohol and a good party. ;)

We have a lot in common then :grin:

I hope they invent a normal priced computer which is 20 times as fast as the one I'm on right now so I can play Cliffs of Dover in full detail running incredible framerate :)

[Sternjaeger II]

I buy apple devices on a daily Base, today i had apple pie and yesterday i had apple juice. :-P

Well everytime when i want to buy something the first i think is "do i really need it" and then i buy it or not, its as simple as that.
I have no use for IPhone, i just need a cell phone, so i dont buy it, but in my circle of friends and acquaintances, almost every one bought IPhones because its a "must have" to be seen with. I still have my W595 thats good for me, i dont need more.

Well that makes absolute sense, but the fact that you have friends that are into status symbols has nothing to do with the quality of Apple products.


And i dont really care about Steve Jobs, the guy is dead get over it.
I dont give a dam who is inventing the stuff i buy, regardless of whether his Name is Steve Jobs or Puppulu Frufullu, i dont care about such hype.

Well then you don't understand the importance of visionary geniuses for the sake of technology advance. Jobs promoted an idea and technology that now everybody is copying, that should be more than enough to understand the importance of the man. The fact that he didn't affect you directly (or maybe he did but you don't realise it), doesn't mean again that the man was a genius.


And btw i surely can afford Apple products, but such huge amount of money i do rather spend them for beer and alcohol and a good party. ;)

then you're probably still very young ;)

[Kongo-Otto]

then you're probably still very young ;)

For the other parts of your post:
Well then we should agree to disagree. Thats ok for me. ;)


very young? Hmm i wouldnt say 46 is very old, so yes i'm still very young. :grin:
You should give an allnighter a try, tons of beer, fags, pretty girls, Northern Soul and 2-Tone Music, nice way to spend a weekend. ;)

[Sternjaeger II]

For the other parts of your post:
Well then we should agree to disagree. Thats ok for me. ;)


very young? Hmm i wouldnt say 46 is very old, so yes i'm still very young. :grin:
You should give an allnighter a try, tons of beer, fags, pretty girls, Northern Soul and 2-Tone Music, nice way to spend a weekend. ;)

lol ok, I still don't get what's with the "Apple hate" attitude though, but as u said, happy to agree to disagree ;)

[Hunden]

The video seemed dark and depressing to me, Gattaca comes to mind...

[Skoshi Tiger]

Frankly, I'd rather live in a future designed by Raaaid than one designed by Microsoft... :-P

What do you mean Andy? You already do!



I think I'ld enjoy being a grumpy old man in a world like that!

[swiss]

LOL

All that tecnology and there are still bellhops, valet, drivers, cooks, clerks, and all the other non-techo to facilitate the efficient techo users. What a crock of cannoli.

Have you ever heard of MS' Think Tank?
That's a research facility with several dozens employees - their only task is to think about our future needs in about 10 years - be it soft- or hardware.

Btw: Samsung is expected to launch the first flexible Galaxy cellphone next year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJEHp15Hoo0

[SIDWULF]

I liked the video, even tho it tried to appeal to everyone somehow...and what exactly is up with all the haters of Microsoft...Windows 7 is really awesome.

[swiss]

The comment about putting an apple on things probably means that either you never used an Apple device or you can't afford one, cos they all work better than any other PC technology, and that is a fact.

Let's put it this way: The average Apple consumer spends about $2500 to read his email, watch youtube and listen to mp3s. :D

Now, the point I don't get is:
Everybody praises Apple for being so super easy to operate - what are these things that were so super shitty MS-style difficult?
I am dead serious about this question, I really don't know, never had any problems and the only BSODS I had were provoked due to OC'ing or installing incompatible HW.
:confused:

[raaaid]

i hardly hardly use the mobil phone

[Sternjaeger II]

Let's put it this way: The average Apple consumer spends about $2500 to read his email, watch youtube and listen to mp3s. :D


That is a very sad and narrow view I'm afraid, Apple is used by professionals that work with photography and graphic design, musicians, engineers and even common users, who rely on two things: hassle free and simplicity of use.


Now, the point I don't get is:
Everybody praises Apple for being so super easy to operate - what are these things that were so super shitty MS-style difficult?
I am dead serious about this question, I really don't know, never had any problems and the only BSODS I had were provoked due to OC'ing or installing incompatible HW.
:confused:

Have you ever actually owned and used an Apple computer? They simply work, no matter what you plug to it (unless it's deliberately not supporting Apple, like Dell crap peripherals), it will look for drivers and work in no time, even making up drivers for stuff that is not present! It's less susceptible to viruses, there's less possibility of damaging the OS by installing malicious software, the benchmarks of Apple hardware are superior (Windows XP on my Mac runs and performs better than on the equivalent PC platform!), they look less clunky and above all they receive continuous updates and improve performance and compatibility, introducing revolutionary technology (think of AirPlay for instance) and enlarging the experience like nobody else does.

Yes, they're not always cheap, but you can get stuff at 0% interest rate in 1 year payments and receive 1 year full warranty, which you can extend to 3 years for little money.

All of this pays you back with an incredible longevity.

Yes, they're not the ideal platform to play (although I run IL-2 1946 perfectly on mine), but that's only because most software houses don't bother to develop games for Macs. Fortunately in a few years' time we'll have cloud gaming, and that will put the word end to the Micro$oft dominion in the world of gaming.

[Bewolf]

That is a very sad and narrow view I'm afraid, Apple is used by professionals that work with photography and graphic design, musicians, engineers and even common users, who rely on two things: hassle free and simplicity of use.



Have you ever actually owned and used an Apple computer? They simply work, no matter what you plug to it (unless it's deliberately not supporting Apple, like Dell crap peripherals), it will look for drivers and work in no time, even making up drivers for stuff that is not present! It's less susceptible to viruses, there's less possibility of damaging the OS by installing malicious software, the benchmarks of Apple hardware are superior (Windows XP on my Mac runs and performs better than on the equivalent PC platform!), they look less clunky and above all they receive continuous updates and improve performance and compatibility, introducing revolutionary technology (think of AirPlay for instance) and enlarging the experience like nobody else does.

Yes, they're not always cheap, but you can get stuff at 0% interest rate in 1 year payments and receive 1 year full warranty, which you can extend to 3 years for little money.

All of this pays you back with an incredible longevity.

Yes, they're not the ideal platform to play (although I run IL-2 1946 perfectly on mine), but that's only because most software houses don't bother to develop games for Macs. Fortunately in a few years' time we'll have cloud gaming, and that will put the word end to the Micro$oft dominion in the world of gaming.

Ok, apple products being of high quality is definitely the case, but this is a bit too much of myth making here and I say that as someone that does graphical and design art as a profession and has direct access to both Microsoft and Apple products.

First of all, recent apple OSes had some serious security faults. Leopard II had larger security holes then even Vista had. Apple did not produce more secure Ooperating Systems then Microsoft, it's just that Apple computers only share a friction of the market and thus are under the Radar of most hackers.

The apple OS also has a huge advantage in being written for the same hardware all over. This makes it rather easy to optomize apple products opposite to Windows, which has to cope with a vast amount of devices. What you prefer here is personal choice, both apporaches have pros and negs. I personally like to work on my computer and upgrade it, purely performance wise you get more bang for the buck with hardware for Windows systems, peripheral producers in direct competition towards each other, so the performance gain in apple products software wise is very relative. It's also not so easy to just upgrade apple products hardware wise.

Apple products are also greared more towards the noobs, which is not a bad thing, it's like an Audi A3 which has it's hood sealed so only mechanics from Audi are capable to work on it opposite to more basic approaches in cars that leaves your room to work on it yourself. Also a matter of personal choice, not an andvantage per se.

My judgement may be clouded here because I got introduced to Apple when they only had one mouse button, which for me was amongst the most cumbersome and agonizing approaches in regards to using a computer, you always had to press extra keys on the keyboard to make it work. Espcially in the graphics department one mouse button was a pest.

I am also absolutely no fan of Apples apporach towards Apps, banning all free programming from their devices and making everything payware as a matter of principle. I am also not so convinced about Apple deisgns as in some cases, they were in some instances almost 1:1 copies of Braun industrial design from the 70ies. And lest we forget that in the modern age Apple was highly successfull in abusing modern patent law to kick any competition in the nuts.

In my opinion apple created some very noteworthy and in the later stages, easy to use and good looking devices, but there is a bit too much of a hype going on. Windows once was hailed very similiary after it replaced DOS, good looking, easy to use in comparison, quite like Apple today. And like the Windows fans are rediculed nowadays, Apple fans should be cautious not to lean too far out of the window.

It all comes down to the point that you pay a lot of money for good looks, a brand name and rather easy usage. If people are willing to pay for that, and if they have the money I do not blame them, cool, but that does not make it a revolution.

[ATAG_Snapper]

Cool vid -- thanks for sharing this.

It'd be neat to revisit it 30 or 40 years from now to see how it compares to the reality. It's fun to see how the future was envisioned by movies and even comic books decades ago. I have to say, FaceTime on the little iPhones impresses hell out of me. Last week friends vacationing in Italy skyped us here (near Toronto) from their hotel room using their iPad -- again, as a kid of the 1950's this wows me.

Someday they'll have Link Trainer simulators on home PC's..........

[JG52Krupi]

Apple - Taking away user options for the sake of simplicity since 1977.

Apple - Making high quality goods from old components and selling them at ludicrous prices.

Steve Jobs - Visionary not really, he was a business man.

[Sternjaeger II]

Ok, apple products being of high quality is definitely the case, but this is a bit too much of myth making here and I say that as someone that does graphical and design art as a profession and has direct access to both Microsoft and Apple products.

Well I regularly work with Photoshop and Illustrator and have a colleague who works with AutoCAD. We have a division of sound engineer who works with Macs as well and in our professional and corporate experience, we can say that Macs performs better, and I'm not talking merely about top end Mac Pros, even the standard iMacs work a treat compared to the pcs you can assemble for the same money; in addition to that you have a stable OS and a long guarantee.


First of all, recent apple OSes had some serious security faults. Leopard II had larger security holes then even Vista had. Apple did not produce more secure Ooperating Systems then Microsoft, it's just that Apple computers only share a friction of the market and thus are under the Radar of most hackers.

No, that's a myth that PC geeks love to think is true, but it's not because hackers don't find Macs appealing, it's cos viruses don't work on Macs, because OS X doesn't work like Windows. You can get certain trojans and ad-wares, but it's really hard because of the way permissions are structured within OS X.


The apple OS also has a huge advantage in being written for the same hardware all over. This makes it rather easy to optomize apple products opposite to Windows, which has to cope with a vast amount of devices. What you prefer here is personal choice, both apporaches have pros and negs. I personally like to work on my computer and upgrade it, purely performance wise you get more bang for the buck with hardware for Windows systems, peripheral producers in direct competition towards each other, so the performance gain in apple products software wise is very relative. It's also not so easy to just upgrade apple products hardware wise.

It's down to personal choice, but the whole misconception is that a machine with a greater chance to be tweaked shouldn't be put in the hands of people that don't know how to handle it. Take the virus examples again: viruses do spread because of a combination of poor security in terms of OS and bad policies or IT habits of average users. Apple took these factors into account and developed a fenced system that is not susceptible to these issues.
As a consequence, you have a stable machine, which reliable performance and that doesn't let you down.
The main difference is that Micro$oft develops a generic OS to be thrown to the lions, whereas Apple develops a complete package, which now is even capable to run the Windows OS (and performing better with those too).


Apple products are also greared more towards the noobs, which is not a bad thing, it's like an Audi A3 which has it's hood sealed so only mechanics from Audi are capable to work on it opposite to more basic approaches in cars that leaves your room to work on it yourself. Also a matter of personal choice, not an andvantage per se.

You probably never looked into a Mac Pro. That is hardware porn at its finest :mrgreen:


My judgement may be clouded here because I got introduced to Apple when they only had one mouse button, which for me was amongst the most cumbersome and agonizing approaches in regards to using a computer, you always had to press extra keys on the keyboard to make it work. Espcially in the graphics department one mouse button was a pest.

things have changed, and keep on changing: Apple is now ditching the concept of the mouse in favour of the Magic Trackpad (http://www.apple.com/uk/magictrackpad/) , which together with a pen tablet is all I use for work. The simple genius of multi-touching is incredibly useful.


I am also absolutely no fan of Apples apporach towards Apps, banning all free programming from their devices and making everything payware as a matter of principle.

you probably never worked with Apps. They generated an incredible amount of work and income for a lot of new companies, and many apps are for free. A developers' package is not very expensive and you can really make a lot of profit. The fact that apps are monitored by Apple is a further example of how they care about quality standards.


I am also not so convinced about Apple deisgns as in some cases, they were in some instances almost 1:1 copies of Braun industrial design from the 70ies. And lest we forget that in the modern age Apple was highly successfull in abusing modern patent law to kick any competition in the nuts.

Apple is a giant, they have more liquidity than the US of A in their bank. They're also winning causes for patent infringements done by other companies, because they worked hard on having their patenting done properly. They invested a lot in it, and it's paying back. As for design, it's questionable, designers continuously take inspiration from the past, so nothing wrong with that.


In my opinion apple created some very noteworthy and in the later stages, easy to use and good looking devices, but there is a bit too much of a hype going on. Windows once was hailed very similiary after it replaced DOS, good looking, easy to use in comparison, quite like Apple today. And like the Windows fans are rediculed nowadays, Apple fans should be cautious not to lean too far out of the window.

there's quite a difference: Apple delivers a complete, functioning package, Windows sells a ($hitty) OS, some applications and crappy peripherals. Their only advantage is that they arrived on the market before, and were cunning enough to steal key ideas and establish themselves into the market to become what they are today: an over-inflated, over-paid, overrated fart.


It all comes down to the point that you pay a lot of money for good looks, a brand name and rather easy usage. If people are willing to pay for that, and if they have the money I do not blame them, cool, but that does not make it a revolution.

You're completely missing on the actual business value here: time.
We ran a survey at work over a month's time, checking workflows of people that worked on same roles but with different platforms (say PC vs Mac).
It turned out that people working on Mac had a higher efficiency rate of circa 35%, this due simply to the time saved by a faster and less buggy machine, less need for costly IT support and generic compatibility issues with peripherals.

Our managing board is looking at the figures now, and rumors are that we're gonna all switch to Macs, because it simply saves us a HUGE amount of money.

[Bewolf]

Well I regularly work with Photoshop and Illustrator and have a colleague who works with AutoCAD. We have a division of sound engineer who works with Macs as well and in our professional and corporate experience, we can say that Macs performs better, and I'm not talking merely about top end Mac Pros, even the standard iMacs work a treat compared to the pcs you can assemble for the same money; in addition to that you have a stable OS and a long guarantee.


I have worked in companies using both Macs and Windows PCs, and it really depends on the components build into a PC, also in regards to stability. More so, there are lots of applications that were never ported over to a Mac, unluckily. Broad statements here in regards to the superiourity of one system to another are a bit like agueing Merits of a Porsche Cayenne vs. a Humvee, completly senseless.


No, that's a myth that PC geeks love to think is true, but it's not because hackers don't find Macs appealing, it's cos viruses don't work on Macs, because OS X doesn't work like Windows. You can get certain trojans and ad-wares, but it's really hard because of the way permissions are structured within OS X.


I am argueing here from a middle ground, and I argue against Apple geeks like you the same way I onced argued against Windows geeks. It's just that Windows is out by now and Apple affictionaed have the same high time now here blowing their praise (some of if justified) totally out of proportion.

In regards to the security issues and legends:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/29/snow_leopard_security/
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/09/security-snow-leopard/


It's down to personal choice, but the whole misconception is that a machine with a greater chance to be tweaked shouldn't be put in the hands of people that don't know how to handle it. Take the virus examples again: viruses do spread because of a combination of poor security in terms of OS and bad policies or IT habits of average users. Apple took these factors into account and developed a fenced system that is not susceptible to these issues.
As a consequence, you have a stable machine, which reliable performance and that doesn't let you down.
The main difference is that Micro$oft develops a generic OS to be thrown to the lions, whereas Apple develops a complete package, which now is even capable to run the Windows OS (and performing better with those too).


Viruses are one problem. They are not the end of the line. I never had a Virus problem with a Mac, very true. But then again I only had a Virus problem once in 15 years of using Windows. Not using pron sites too much really helps, btw.


You probably never looked into a Mac Pro. That is hardware porn at its finest :mrgreen:

True, I didn't as of yet


things have changed, and keep on changing: Apple is now ditching the concept of the mouse in favour of the Magic Trackpad (http://www.apple.com/uk/magictrackpad/) , which together with a pen tablet is all I use for work. The simple genius of multi-touching is incredibly useful.

I have my Wacom sitting right next to me and it's a great device, no doubt. I am not a fan of touchpads in their current form, however, so I am not convived about this one.


you probably never worked with Apps. They generated an incredible amount of work and income for a lot of new companies, and many apps are for free. A developers' package is not very expensive and you can really make a lot of profit. The fact that apps are monitored by Apple is a further example of how they care about quality standards.


http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/954-not-sure-if-serious.jpg

not worked with apps yet? you do want to be taken serious, yes? maybe you should extend the favor to others? apps are neat little tings, but they are just programs like all others put into a userfriendly GUI. That's all there is to it. Monitoring, btw, is a many ways street. Figure it out yourself.


Apple is a giant, they have more liquidity than the US of A in their bank. They're also winning causes for patent infringements done by other companies, because they worked hard on having their patenting done properly. They invested a lot in it, and it's paying back. As for design, it's questionable, designers continuously take inspiration from the past, so nothing wrong with that.


Call me a cyncic, but in the US of A, in court this really is all that counts. I am not saying there is something wrong in the apporach of Apple, but it's nothing breathtaking either, as the argument goes.


there's quite a difference: Apple delivers a complete, functioning package, Windows sells a ($hitty) OS, some applications and crappy peripherals. Their only advantage is that they arrived on the market before, and were cunning enough to steal key ideas and establish themselves into the market to become what they are today: an over-inflated, over-paid, overrated fart.

LoL, be careful to not let that argument come back at you in a couple of years, the roots for that are already laid. Btw, this is exactly why I think you lack objectivity in this debate. Apple has been around now for a very long time. Despite that they never really managed to be a serious contender. Why do you think is that? Fanboyism never is a good sparring partner in an arguement.


You're completely missing on the actual business value here: time.
We ran a survey at work over a month's time, checking workflows of people that worked on same roles but with different platforms (say PC vs Mac).
It turned out that people working on Mac had a higher efficiency rate of circa 35%, this due simply to the time saved by a faster and less buggy machine, less need for costly IT support and generic compatibility issues with peripherals.

This is the first argument here to be actually taken serious, but Macs and PCs are not only precision mashines geared for only once purpose in any given company. In fact, many companies "need" Windows because they have to utilize their machines for in parts very different tasks. Esepcially new companies do a lot better with Windows simply because it is a more flexible machine. I am not declarting your argument wrong here, but it is a very narrow view for very specialised taks. And let's not forget the private users, which probably require even more flexebility.


All that said, I am not going to argue against a man on a mission, so you will have to go it alone from here. I can just advise to get a bit more distance towards the topic.

[Sternjaeger II]

I have worked in companies using both Macs and Windows PCs, and it really depends on the components build into a PC, also in regards to stability. More so, there are lots of applications that were never ported over to a Mac, unluckily. Broad statements here in regards to the superiourity of one system to another are a bit like agueing Merits of a Porsche Cayenne vs. a Humvee, completly senseless.

Sorry man, but it still sounds like you never actually worked on a Mac for a prolonged period of time. I have met thousands of professionals who work with both, and not ONE has said "PC is better than Mac", not one.


I am argueing here from a middle ground, and I argue against Apple geeks like you the same way I onced argued against Windows geeks. It's just that Windows is out by now and Apple affictionaed have the same high time now here blowing their praise (some of if justified) totally out of proportion.


I'm sorry, but I don't think of myself as an Apple geek, I work continuously with both, but only one aggravates the hell out of me with recurrent issues, drivers, updates, wifi problems, compatibility issues, security issues, viruses, etc..


In regards to the security issues and legends:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/29/snow_leopard_security/
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/09/security-snow-leopard/

Viruses are one problem. They are not the end of the line. I never had a Virus problem with a Mac, very true. But then again I only had a Virus problem once in 15 years of using Windows. Not using pron sites too much really helps, btw.


You didn't, but you're a top end user with PC skills, the problem again is that a machine with a susceptible OS like Windows is given to people with little or no IT understanding.
Symantec and many other anti-virus companies make billions by exploiting this deliberate security gap left by Windows (and I say deliberate because once they understood the problem they should have addressed the issue with their newer OS.. and to add insult to injury Microsoft bought shares of Symantec!).



I have my Wacom sitting right next to me and it's a great device, no doubt. I am not a fan of touchpads in their current form, however, so I am not convived about this one.

I was skeptical too, but then I tried it and can't do without now! It's impressive stuff!


http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/954-not-sure-if-serious.jpg

not worked with apps yet? you do want to be taken serious, yes? maybe you should extend the favor to others? apps are neat little tings, but they are just programs like all others put into a userfriendly GUI. That's all there is to it. Monitoring, btw, is a many ways street. Figure it out yourself.

Have you actually ever worked to the development of an app? I have, and helped others too. And for a 1000 crappy apps that aren't worth a penny there are 10000 that actually are of some use. Some of the apps we have are revolutionary to say the least, but then again, if you don't try them you don't understand them.
The key of a successful app is not just the program per se, but the fact that it's given a platform with SO much potential because of the way it's built.
Microscopic gyros, HD cameras, retina screen, motion sensors: an iPhone is still the most incredible device on the market of mobile phones.


Call me a cyncic, but in the US of A, in court this really is all that counts. I am not saying there is something wrong in the apporach of Apple, but it's nothing breathtaking either, as the argument goes.

I rest my case that you don't make use of Apple products, otherwise you would understand what I talk about. And believe me, their potential is immense and the more into it you are, the more you can get out of it.
My network and IT setup at home is a typical example of the efficiency of Apple stuff: I have all my music and movies on a mini server, connected to an apple TV and a stereo, which I can control via iTunes either with an iPad or with an iPhone, playing different music or movies around the house, using devices that are constantly offered new, incredible potential by means of quality apps.
You can't remain indifferent to such incredible quality and flexibility.


LoL, be careful to not let that argument come back at you in a couple of years, the roots for that are already laid. Btw, this is exactly why I think you lack objectivity in this debate. Apple has been around now for a very long time. Despite that they never really managed to be a serious contender. Why do you think is that? Fanboyism never is a good sparring partner in an arguement.

I'm very objective man, cos I use both. Again, Microsoft arrived earlier and conquered the market cos it was the first to introduce the revolution, Apple had its ups and downs and it's only in the middle '00s that it became really competitive. You're running by '90s stereotypes I'm afraid (the single button thing you mentioned is an example of it).


This is the first argument here to be actually taken serious, but Macs and PCs are not only precision mashines geared for only once purpose in any given company. In fact, many companies "need" Windows because they have to utilize their machines for in parts very different tasks. Esepcially new companies do a lot better with Windows simply because it is a more flexible machine. I am not declarting your argument wrong here, but it is a very narrow view for very specialised taks. And let's not forget the private users, which probably require even more flexebility.

The need is based on pre-conceptions. The Intel based Macs now can do anything a PC can do.
And private users don't need more flexibility, only game nerds like us lot do, but if games were developed for more stable machines, imagine how quick game developing would be, and how much better things would work. Think of all the problems the guys here are having in terms of setting, beta issues and solutions etc...
Again, videogaming on home devices is about to die, soon it will be only a case of cloud gaming anyway.


All that said, I am not going to argue against a man on a mission, so you will have to go it alone from here. I can just advise to get a bit more distance towards the topic.

I'm no man on a mission, I am just sharing my experience as someone who worked on PCs and Macs for 15 years. I just can't stand people that slag Macs or Apple just because they've been brainwashed and never actually used one.

[Bewolf]

Sorry man, but it still sounds like you never actually worked on a Mac for a prolonged period of time. I have met thousands of professionals who work with both, and not ONE has said "PC is better than Mac", not one.

That is the problem of the debate. I have never said the PC is "better". I merely have taken a bit away from the "Apple is better" crowds. Your insistence of seeing this an attack on Apple and it's unreflected, very one sided defense and promotion is what lets me think that this debate is mood. This is also reflected by the rest of your comment here.

Believe me, I would not have charged in here if your views were in any way balanced.

And let's just say I am not looking into MP3 connectivity throughout the house as my primary OS purpose, I also could tell you a whole lot about 3D modelling requirements and specialized hard and software as we are at it, but I fear it would be wasted anyways.

[swiss]

That is a very sad and narrow view I'm afraid, Apple is used by professionals that work with photography and graphic design, musicians, engineers and even common users, who rely on two things: hassle free and simplicity of use.

No - it's the reality.
If the average Apple owner was pro graphic artist, Apple would be in trouble.
The average PC user uses his machine for same purposes (mail, video, music).
That is, if you don't count in all the enterprise PCs, but we're talking about the privately owned here, right?


Have you ever actually owned and used an Apple computer? They simply work, no matter what you plug to it (unless it's deliberately not supporting Apple, like Dell crap peripherals), it will look for drivers and work in no time, even making up drivers for stuff that is not present! It's less susceptible to viruses, there's less possibility of damaging the OS by installing malicious software, the benchmarks of Apple hardware are superior (Windows XP on my Mac runs and performs better than on the equivalent PC platform!), they look less clunky and above all they receive continuous updates and improve performance and compatibility, introducing revolutionary technology (think of AirPlay for instance) and enlarging the experience like nobody else does.

Yes, they're not always cheap, but you can get stuff at 0% interest rate in 1 year payments and receive 1 year full warranty, which you can extend to 3 years for little money.

All of this pays you back with an incredible longevity.

Yes, they're not the ideal platform to play (although I run IL-2 1946 perfectly on mine), but that's only because most software houses don't bother to develop games for Macs. Fortunately in a few years' time we'll have cloud gaming, and that will put the word end to the Micro$oft dominion in the world of gaming.

Many friends have Macs, they are a bitch to work on when you come from MS, usually get lost within minutes.
Considering the so praised compatibility - W7 does the same thing: It loads and updates all drivers automatically. Unlike apple, where you must by from Apple, you just have to make sure there's W7 sticker on the box.
If you ignore it, your fault.
Nobody expects non Apple HW to work automatically on Macs, right? Same thing.
XP is nowhere close to W7 - xp was somewhat ok, but generally a bitch, especially the x64 version.
Now tell me, have you ever worked on a W7 machine?

Considering benchmarks: I just raced a 2011 iMac with cinebench, that thing was >10% short in all disciplines - And my HW is not that shiny.

Bottom line:
You buy what you want Pears or Apples, but this whole iReligion thing, with arguments which just aren't true, pm off so bad.
Considering design: I think they look friggin ghey, but then again that's just me. De gustibus non est disputandum .


edit: I'm about to read the rest of the posts

You probably never looked into a Mac Pro. That is hardware porn at its finest

2x i930/959, 5770 SLI, 6GB Ram, 1TB HDD for only $7300.
http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/konfus/c025.gif
What a bargain.

Apple is a giant, they have more liquidity than the US of A in their bank.
What figures are you using? You can have never more liquidity than a Federal Bank you own, they can press as much money as they want(not in reality as it comes with certain sideffects, but anyway)
Oh and btw, they "only" have $81 Billions in cash and other short term assets.
http://investor.apple.com/common/download/download.cfm?companyid=AAPL&fileid=512287&filekey=5a5d7b14-9542-4640-841d-e047ec28bb96&filename=AAPL_10K_FY11_10.26.11.pdf

What do you want to compare it with? The gold reserves?

[Sternjaeger II]

No - it's the reality.
If the average Apple owner was pro graphic artist, Apple would be in trouble.
The average PC user uses his machine for same purposes (mail, video, music).
That is, if you don't count in all the enterprise PCs, but we're talking about the privately owned here, right?

..I'm not sure I understand what you wrote? :confused:


Many friends have Macs, they are a bitch to work on when you come from MS, usually get lost within minutes.

..seriously? So when you were born you already knew how to use a PC? There's a learning curve, but it's not as dramatic as you would think, in the end everything makes much more sense and is way more practical.

Considering the so praised compatibility - W7 does the same thing: It loads and updates all drivers automatically. Unlike apple, where you must by from Apple, you just have to make sure there's W7 sticker on the box.
If you ignore it, your fault.

I work with Win7 as well (64bit) and although it's times better than Vista, it's still a biatch to run and has the same appalling issues with memory managing, but worse than all, it's still based on an unnecessary punctured OS which can be easily damaged.
And you can buy software for Macs from everywhere, most (if not all) software producers now make it Apple compatible, which is way easier thanks to the use of Intel processors.


Nobody expects non Apple HW to work automatically on Macs, right? Same thing.

Wrong. As mentioned above, apart from a couple of brands that deliberately do not support Apple (Dell above all, cos they do their own hardware), everything else you plug to a Mac will work, no chase for drivers and time wasting.


XP is nowhere close to W7 - xp was somewhat ok, but generally a bitch, especially the x64 version.
Now tell me, have you ever worked on a W7 machine?

I do regularly, it's better, but not as good as Lion or Snow Leopard.


Considering benchmarks: I just raced a 2011 iMac with cinebench, that thing was >10% short in all disciplines - And my HW is not that shiny.

give us specs of the 2 machines, otherwise what you said here doesn't mean a thing.


Bottom line:
You buy what you want Pears or Apples, but this whole iReligion thing, with arguments which just aren't true, pm off so bad.
Considering design: I think they look friggin ghey, but then again that's just me. De gustibus non est disputandum .

well, considering that you're a person that defines something he doesn't like as "gay", I can't suppose to expect much more of a mature approach to the subject.


2x i930/959, 5770 SLI, 6GB Ram, 1TB HDD for only $7300.
http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/konfus/c025.gif
What a bargain.

they're not selling you a bargain, they're selling you a prime quality machine made with quality components and performing to unmatched levels.


What figures are you using? You can have never more liquidity than a Federal Bank you own, they can press as much money as they want(not in reality as it comes with certain sideffects, but anyway)
obviously you have quite a confused concept of how monetary systems work :rolleyes:


Oh and btw, they "only" have $81 Billions in cash and other short term assets.
http://investor.apple.com/common/download/download.cfm?companyid=AAPL&fileid=512287&filekey=5a5d7b14-9542-4640-841d-e047ec28bb96&filename=AAPL_10K_FY11_10.26.11.pdf

What do you want to compare it with? The gold reserves?

read above, I don't think you have an understanding of monetary value..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14340470

[Sternjaeger II]

That is the problem of the debate. I have never said the PC is "better". I merely have taken a bit away from the "Apple is better" crowds. Your insistence of seeing this an attack on Apple and it's unreflected, very one sided defense and promotion is what lets me think that this debate is mood. This is also reflected by the rest of your comment here.

Believe me, I would not have charged in here if your views were in any way balanced.

And let's just say I am not looking into MP3 connectivity throughout the house as my primary OS purpose, I also could tell you a whole lot about 3D modelling requirements and specialized hard and software as we are at it, but I fear it would be wasted anyways.

I'm sorry, but Apple is better, and my opinion is based on 15 years of use of both, ranging on a wide set of applications and hardware.

Without even going into the whole OS debate, there is not one Windows based PC brand (i.e. Dell, VAIO etc..) which can deliver quality products superior to Apple one. Just to give you an example, I'm typing this thing from a Macbook Air, by far the most revolutionary laptop ever, and when I see people waving their chunky Alienware or Acer or Vaio laptops, all I can think of is "why, when you can have one of this light, thin, dependable and performing macbooks?" :confused:

The mp3 connectivity as you call it was just a mere example, and feel free to tell me about any 3d specialised hardware and software, I'm not an expert but neither totally ignorant on the subject. Even in that field, you won't find a machine that has such quality, performance and above all moddability and longevity than a Mac Pro.

[Bewolf]

I'm sorry, but Apple is better, and my opinion is based on 15 years of use of both, ranging on a wide set of applications and hardware.

Without even going into the whole OS debate, there is not one Windows based PC brand (i.e. Dell, VAIO etc..) which can deliver quality products superior to Apple one. Just to give you an example, I'm typing this thing from a Macbook Air, by far the most revolutionary laptop ever, and when I see people waving their chunky Alienware or Acer or Vaio laptops, all I can think of is "why, when you can have one of this light, thin, dependable and performing macbooks?" :confused:

The mp3 connectivity as you call it was just a mere example, and feel free to tell me about any 3d specialised hardware and software, I'm not an expert but neither totally ignorant on the subject. Even in that field, you won't find a machine that has such quality, performance and above all moddability and longevity than a Mac Pro.

lol, heavens, stern, take a deep breath, lean back, have a beer, relax and read again what you just wrote here. This could be right out of "the onion". It is so over the top =)

[Sternjaeger II]

lol, heavens, stern, take a deep breath, lean back, have a beer, relax and read again what you just wrote here. This could be right out of "the onion". It is so over the top =)

I think you're exaggerating things a bit man, I gave my opinion as user of both systems, and I reckon Apple is overall better and more value for money, end of.

I seem to understand you don't have much experience with the Apple stuff, still you feel like making fun of others that do and tell you "dude, it's not just better, it's miles better".

[Bewolf]

I think you're exaggerating things a bit man, I gave my opinion as user of both systems, and I reckon Apple is overall better and more value for money, end of.

I seem to understand you don't have much experience with the Apple stuff, still you feel like making fun of others that do and tell you "dude, it's not just better, it's miles better".

I am daily exposed to apple products, believe me. There is not much way around it these days, this way or another. The problem is that you picked out certain criteria you liked, and only those criteria count and are the most important. I do not have to be an expert on apple products to differ between somebody with an open mind and one that knows everything already before the debate even begun. No offense.

[Sternjaeger II]

I am daily exposed to apple products, believe me. There is not much way around it these days, this way or another. The problem is that you picked out certain criteria you liked, and only those criteria count and are the most important. I do not have to be an expert on apple products to differ between somebody with an open mind and one that knows everything already before the debate even begun. No offense.

dude, prove me wrong then.

[Bewolf]

dude, prove me wrong then.

What is there to proof? I said Apple is more streamlines, PC is more adaptable. That simply is the case, so obvious as if you want me to proof that we have sunny and bad weather.

You like certain features like design, easy to use, great quality. Software geared for it is very good. All true. And I actually enjoy products like the Iphone when I get my hands on it.

I said there for pure performance you get more bang for the buck with a PC system, high end hardware and also special task hardware that you can interchange at will at home, perfect for a system that needs to do lots of stuff and with windows 7, as swiss correctly pointed out, also with a pretty nice OS. And you simply have a much broader choice in internal and peripha gear, as well as software options, payware and freeware. Not as streamlined as apple, but more adaptable. I have not seen one convincing arguement disproving that.

So each system has points going for it, the way I can see it both have advantages. But whatever advantage Apple has, it is eaten up by its cost and specialisation. I need a working computer, not a decoration. It's not about dissing, it is simply about ignoring the hype and see it as what it is and what you get for your money for what task.

[Kongo-Otto]

The video seemed dark and depressing to me, Gattaca comes to mind...

The first thoughts i had were these:
Soylent green (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sp-VFBbjpE)

[TomcatViP]

... and with windows 7, as swiss correctly pointed out, also with a pretty nice OS.

That makes me wonder what the hell we have against CoD devs managing the bugs when it took 15 years to Microflop to release a bug free copy of it's original Win95 OS :rolleyes:

As I remind it Win3 what the last bug free OS of MS until Win7

[Sternjaeger II]

That makes me wonder what the hell we have against CoD devs managing the bugs when it took 15 years to Microflop to release a bug free copy of it's original Win95 OS :rolleyes:

As I remind it Win3 what the last bug free OS of MS until Win7

that's another valid point man: it is fair to assume that devs have to put up with OSs from the same company which are never compatible, having to put extra efforts to deliver something which works on XP, Vista and 7.

[JG52Krupi]

The video seemed dark and depressing to me, Gattaca comes to mind...

Love that film it's superb

[Oldschool61]

I'm sorry, but Apple is better, and my opinion is based on 15 years of use of both, ranging on a wide set of applications and hardware.

Without even going into the whole OS debate, there is not one Windows based PC brand (i.e. Dell, VAIO etc..) which can deliver quality products superior to Apple one. Just to give you an example, I'm typing this thing from a Macbook Air, by far the most revolutionary laptop ever, and when I see people waving their chunky Alienware or Acer or Vaio laptops, all I can think of is "why, when you can have one of this light, thin, dependable and performing macbooks?" :confused:

The mp3 connectivity as you call it was just a mere example, and feel free to tell me about any 3d specialised hardware and software, I'm not an expert but neither totally ignorant on the subject. Even in that field, you won't find a machine that has such quality, performance and above all moddability and longevity than a Mac Pro.

I thought Jobs died a week or so??

[Jumpy]

Frankly, I'd rather live in a future designed by Raaaid than one designed by Microsoft... :-P

:grin::grin:That comment caused me to laugh so hard I nearly choked!
I totally agree, by the way. Just an advertisement for young people who microsoft hope want to be cool. You know, the travel, business meetings, fashion, nice clothes etc. I admit, though that perhaps I am to old to understand the modern need to have instant access to gigabytes of useless information in one's hand. If I want a coffee I will follow my nose or ask someone. Much cheaper and you don't have to pay by the month.:grin:

[TomcatViP]

+1:!:

[swiss]

that's another valid point man: it is fair to assume that devs have to put up with OSs from the same company which are never compatible, having to put extra efforts to deliver something which works on XP, Vista and 7.

From 1999 to 2008 we worked on W2000 with an inhouse developed ERP, never had any problems. This software was developed for W95, the migration was a walk in park and it's even confirmed to work on XP too.
Another cool thing about MS is: I can play games like wing- or strikecommander on a W7 machine if I want to, I might need an additional progi(dosbox), yet I can.
I'm talking about 20(!) years old software.
Downward compatibility was never a real issue, at least not for mainstream progis.
The other way around is more tricky though. The question is: Why should you put any effort in making software compatible to an obsolete OS?
Can macs do do that?

Anyway, all those arguments against MS actually lack examples. I would like to hear what kind of windows-crap trouble you ran into.
Like:
1.program
2.OS
3.description of problem

[AKA_Tenn]

I'd rather live in a future where the world still has forests, and the farmer is the most important person alive, where technology is for wasting time, because technology doesn't grow food, supply our planet with oxygen and filter out CO2, or pick up our garbage, list goes on....

machines don't get sick because of polution, don't have to pay to eat...
its like rich people want a way to spend less, so they invent machines that cost far less to operate than a person, so now the honest person has no money, and can't buy anything from the rich person, so now the rich person isn't getting any income anyway... one big cause and effect loop

[AndyJWest]

its like rich people want a way to spend less, so they invent machines that cost far less to operate than a person, so now the honest person has no money, and can't buy anything from the rich person, so now the rich person isn't getting any income anyway... one big cause and effect loop

Yes, an old conundrum. This bloke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_marx) wrote a book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_Kapital) on the subject. He seemed optimistic that there was a solution...

[raaaid]

im pretty sure the future will be a technological 1800s like

is this or no future at all

[BaronBonBaron]

apple - taking away user options for the sake of simplicity since 1977.

Apple - making high quality goods from old components and selling them at ludicrous prices.

Steve jobs - visionary not really, he was a business man.

+100

[BaronBonBaron]

All of this pays you back with an incredible longevity.
:confused: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elKxgsrJFhw

prime quality machine made with quality components and performing to unmatched levels.
Actually Macs are made out of basically the same hardware as PCs. Using components from Intel, AMD, NVIDIA, Gigabit, ect. Store bought Macs and PCs are pretty much the same on the inside. The Real difference is the OS, the case, and how it looks on the outside.
Oh, and the price tag. ;)

Example.
http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html

MacBookPro 15 inch.
2.2GHz Intel Core i7
500GB HDD
AMD Radeon HD 6750M
15.4-inch LED Screen
Price. $1,800


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834200355

DELL Alienware M17x R3
2.20GHz Intel Core i7
750GB HDD
AMD Radeon HD 6870M
17.3 Screen
Price. $1,650

See, the PC has equivalent or better hardware for a better price. :-P

[Sternjaeger II]

From 1999 to 2008 we worked on W2000 with an inhouse developed ERP, never had any problems. This software was developed for W95, the migration was a walk in park and it's even confirmed to work on XP too.
Another cool thing about MS is: I can play games like wing- or strikecommander on a W7 machine if I want to, I might need an additional progi(dosbox), yet I can.
I'm talking about 20(!) years old software.
Downward compatibility was never a real issue, at least not for mainstream progis.
The other way around is more tricky though. The question is: Why should you put any effort in making software compatible to an obsolete OS?
Can macs do do that?

Anyway, all those arguments against MS actually lack examples. I would like to hear what kind of windows-crap trouble you ran into.
Like:
1.program
2.OS
3.description of problem

dude, I work in an office with 2500 employees, most of them work on PCs, and the service ticket list in the IT dept at the moment has an estimated 3 weeks wait. The problem is not the machines only, but the damage users cause to them. In offices where Macs have been introduced the request for assistance has dropped of a shocking 65%! If that isn't enough, then I dunno what you need as further evidence.

[Sternjaeger II]

:confused: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elKxgsrJFhw

erm, dude, longevity has little to do with improper handling.. besides fixing an iPhone glass crack is a £10 job that you can do yourself.


Actually Macs are made out of basically the same hardware as PCs. Using components from Intel, AMD, NVIDIA, Gigabit, ect. Store bought Macs and PCs are pretty much the same on the inside. The Real difference is the OS, the case, and how it looks on the outside.
Oh, and the price tag. ;)

Example.
http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html

MacBookPro 15 inch.
2.2GHz Intel Core i7
500GB HDD
AMD Radeon HD 6750M
15.4-inch LED Screen
Price. $1,800


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834200355

DELL Alienware M17x R3
2.20GHz Intel Core i7
750GB HDD
AMD Radeon HD 6870M
17.3 Screen
Price. $1,650

See, the PC has equivalent or better hardware for a better price. :-P

you're thinking again as a gamer. Gamers will never love Macs because they're not moddable. I think a lot of people will prefer Macs as soon as game clouding will start to be distributed on a broader scale.

Of course the components are the same, what did you expect, Kryptonite processors? Apple develops their MoBos though, and that makes the difference.

Have a look at the interiors of a macbook air, it's a masterpiece of engineering, plus they offer you product warranties, support and even the possibility to run your beloved Windows if you really want to, all in a package which has specifically developed together with the OS, to ensure performance, safety and longevity.

Our procurement team has listed a looong list of advantages of Macs over PCs, you pay more for it yes, but it will last longer.

[BaronBonBaron]

Of course the components are the same, what did you expect, Kryptonite processors?
No I didn't, I was just showing that a Mac is the same as an equivalent store bought PC, just more expensive.

Apple develops their MoBos though, and that makes the difference.
Really? I guess I never knew that. Although, some PC manufacturers do make their own too, most use other brands like Gigabyte, ASUS, MSI, ect.

Have a look at the interiors of a macbook air, it's a masterpiece of engineering, plus they offer you product warranties, support and even the possibility to run your beloved Windows if you really want to, all in a package which has specifically developed together with the OS, to ensure performance, safety and longevity.

That is definitely true, but you should understand that a PC has ALL of those to! They can run a different OS besides Windows, they (store bought PC's) have product warrenties, free support, ect. ect. its all the same.
You seem to think that a $1,000 MAC will magically blow a equivalent but less expensive PC away. But thats not true because they are the same thing.

I am NOT saying that Macs are bad or inferior, I'm just showing you that there really isn't ANYTHING unique to them that makes Macs a better...

Our procurement team has listed a looong list of advantages of Macs over PCs, you pay more for it yes, but it will last longer.
Thats fine with me, really, I don't care if you're team uses Macs and not PCs.




EDIT. Lets get this thread back on topic before it gets locked/deleted.

[triumph1949]

tech moves fast....6 months is a long time in the world of hardware dev...

i have been building my own systems for years....i can upgrade when i choose...

its a freedom....i dont have to buy a pc. just to upgrade...i can run software of my choice.....

i dont have to put up with store pre installed bloat ....but in the end its what you want the machine to do, not the name on the box...

brands are for cattle..triumph

[41Sqn_Stormcrow]

I read a lot of applism and microsoftism here. LOL. I have never imagined that one can make an ideology out of one's preference for a device brand.

I don't have apple stuff (except those that one actually can eat) as they are too expensive, a lot of software is incompatible and I prefer to have a say in how I build my computer and its software components.

But let the people buy Apple product like crazy if they like. Keeps the economy rolling.

@Baron: actually true. I have a five year warranty on my pc. That is more than for my car ...

[BaronBonBaron]

i dont have to put up with store pre installed bloat ....but in the end its what you want the machine to do, not the name on the box... brands are for cattle..triumph

Agreed. I didn't mean to come across as a Microsoft Fanboi in my earlier posts.

Actually, my first PC (the one I have now) I built myself in early 2010.
I bought the best parts I could afford on my small budget and made my computer the way I wanted, and later when I had more cash, I "upgraded" the GPU to a Radeon HD 5750 lol.
So now I have a decent rig that is customized to do what I want it to do, and that can play most games on medium settings. :-)

I definitely recommend that people build their own computers, Regardless of what brand, OS, ect. they prefer.
That way you can learn a new skill, save money, and make you're computer the way you want to. :-P



About the OP, I think that it is impossible to accurately tell what technology will be like in the future.

Remember, people in the early 20 century thought that people in the 21 first century would have flying cars, jet packs, houses on the moon, ect. :-P

[nearmiss]

dude, I work in an office with 2500 employees, most of them work on PCs, and the service ticket list in the IT dept at the moment has an estimated 3 weeks wait. The problem is not the machines only, but the damage users cause to them. In offices where Macs have been introduced the request for assistance has dropped of a shocking 65%! If that isn't enough, then I dunno what you need as further evidence.

It is all relative. I have a friend got a network manager job for a similar sized company. Spent every working hour putting out fires (service tickets). The situation improved when users at desktops were blocked from downloading and installing software or running utilities.

There were so many desktop users, and some were sharp enough to work around the lockouts. The service tickets persisted, but at a much lower level. My friend quit the job and moved onto a better life.

There are some fires you just can't put out.