Hurricane speed

[Insuber]

Yesterday on ATAG I ran on a 109 E4 for 10 minutes at full speed, low alt, with a Hurricane at my 6. The Hurri gained slowly on me, despite the auto prop pitch did it's job correctly in keeping the rpm at 2300. Another flaw of FM?

[Osprey]

Cheesehawk is correct. The Hurri will hang on the tail but you really can't keep up even if you score astern shots, and the climb is deadly to follow. I break away myself.

[41Sqn_Stormcrow]

But shouldn't be the 109 a bit faster than the Hurricane? At least all pilot accounts whatever side I've read seem to concord that the Hurri was really slow compared to the 109 ...

[Osprey]

Well firstly the FM's are wrong so expect change, but also I only said 'hang', and that'll be for a short time, and when the 109 driver get's his prop working he'll pull away with ease.

[pupo162]

Yesterday on ATAG I ran on a 109 E4 for 10 minutes at full speed, low alt, with a Hurricane at my 6. The Hurri gained slowly on me, despite the auto prop pitch did it's job correctly in keeping the rpm at 2300. Another flaw of FM?

were you damaged in anyway? was the ball centered?

if thsoe too come to your advantage... the only plausible explanation is cheeting.

10 mins would be enough for you to gain a good 5 km from him.

[41Sqn_Stormcrow]

Could be but who knows. Yesterday there had been some complaints about a guy who managed to pk one player 4 times in a row on ATAG server. But perhaps he was just a good shot.

Or somebody just made it up.

Anyhow I had a similar experience with a Hurri on my tail while I really was at max speed for th 109 (that what I obtained during extensive offline testing).

Perhaps I slighty won on him but not fast enough for him not to spray me with his guns. While the 109 should be remarkably faster.

Yesterday I did some testing with the rotol Hurri and I managed to get her to about 420 kmh which seems pretty historic. What appeared unhistoric to me is that the boost cut out had little to no effect on the speed while it should imho.

[CWMV]

Ive not had any problems with outrunning the reds recently.
In fact its been really great. We'll be doing the average airfield raid, find Tommies in the air with us, dive for the deck towards France, turn on WEP, and watch the Tommies fade away in the distance as we cruise at 490kph.
Really a lot of fun! lol

[Welshman]

must be nice to have the faster plane and winge about how you get caught up .

when in fact you should be caught up by ever spit in the game . i can imagen the moaning then , probably why the spits are so slow . lol

[CWMV]

Broken English and laughable punctuation aside, I'm afraid your incorrect.
If you have any information to back you claims please post it over here:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=26956

And take a look at this:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=347529&postcount=29

[Welshman]

[QUOTE=CWMV;353358]Broken English and laughable punctuation aside, I'm afraid your incorrect.
If you have any information to back you claims please post it over here:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=26956

And take a look at this:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=347529&postcount=29[/QUOTE

i may of been a little out on the speed but still dead on with the german flyers moaning ( not all just the select few ) if they are moaning about a hurricane that can only do 260 keeping up with them

would be post after post if the spit could do 283 .

as for your other remark fu

[41Sqn_Stormcrow]

Ive not had any problems with outrunning the reds recently.
In fact its been really great. We'll be doing the average airfield raid, find Tommies in the air with us, dive for the deck towards France, turn on WEP, and watch the Tommies fade away in the distance as we cruise at 490kph.
Really a lot of fun! lol

Do I hear some irony here?

In case I should not could you please tell me the trick how to reach 490 kph with WEP as I just get the 109 to 470 kph with Notleistung?

[CaptainDoggles]

as for your other remark fu

Wow, another mature, well thought-out reply from an Allied pilot. Grow up.

It's depressing that people get so emotionally invested in their favorite plane that they get all riled up when its weaknesses are brought into light.

[Welshman]

that was a reply to him for being personal and trying to be a smart arse , nothing to do with the game ( looking back probably a little ott )

[CWMV]

Do I hear some irony here?

In case I should not could you please tell me the trick how to reach 490 kph with WEP as I just get the 109 to 470 kph with Notleistung?

Really? I may be mistaken as to the speed but if I am its not off by much.
Normally Ill be in my lightly-gassed (100-200L fuel) E-4, dive for the deck from a few hundred meters, turn on the WEP and then hold it at less than 10 meters off the water.

[CaptainDoggles]

that was a reply to him for being personal and trying to be a smart arse , nothing to do with the game ( looking back probably a little ott )

Hmm, the original post was asking a question about the relative performance of two aircraft. The next 7 or so replies were constructive and on-topic.

Then you posted this fountain of wisdom, where you accused the original poster of whining, and then implied that the developers purposely nerfed the spitfire to stop Axis pilots from moaning:

must be nice to have the faster plane and winge about how you get caught up .

when in fact you should be caught up by ever spit in the game . i can imagen the moaning then , probably why the spits are so slow . lol

So let me ask you this: Insuber was clearly not whining, so why did you feel it was necessary to say that he was? Do you have a personal problem with Insuber? Do you have a problem with people who fly Axis? Do you have any evidence to back up your assertions that the spitfire has been purposely made too slow?

[CaptainDoggles]

Really? I may be mistaken as to the speed but if I am its not off by much.
Normally Ill be in my lightly-gassed (100-200L fuel) E-4, dive for the deck from a few hundred meters, turn on the WEP and then hold it at less than 10 meters off the water.

A dive from height with less fuel will definitely see you faster than a level acceleration for a good long while. I find the 109 holds speed very well after a dive. If there were ever a "trick" I think this would be it.

[CWMV]

That may very well be it.

[CaptainDoggles]

I've never really done any speed tests, but Stormcrow should make sure his rads are closed and the ball is centered.

[41Sqn_Stormcrow]

you mean like getting 490 kph for 0.5sec and then ruining one's engine?

[CaptainDoggles]

you mean like getting 490 kph for 0.5sec and then ruining one's engine?

Don't close them all the way, then.

[CWMV]

you mean like getting 490 kph for 0.5sec and then ruining one's engine?

Not at all! :grin:
Just make sure your rads are open enough to keep the temps in operating range, no more, no less.

I just did it offline. E-4 With 50% fuel, full ammunition load, and a dive of 500 meters. I engaging WEP at full throttle and at approximately 10 meters altitude. I was able to maintain 480-490kph for the duration that WEP was engaged. When disengaged it rapidly dropped to 460-470kph.
in level flight I was able to attain and barely maintain 470kph. Any deviation (like pulling up out of the waves LOL) dropped it to 460kph.
The only other thing I could think to add is to make sure your trimmed properly.

EDIT:Should add that I started with the same 109 (E-4, 50% fuel, full ammo) at 500 meters, cruising at 1.2ata, 390kph.

[41Sqn_Stormcrow]

Ok. So basically we are still at unhistoric FM (too slow) for the 109E. But there are some ways to fly her for some time faster than usual.

[CWMV]

As for your other remark, FY




Fixed, although I'm not certain if the comma is necessary.

[CaptainDoggles]

Ok. So basically we are still at unhistoric FM (too slow) for the 109E. But there are some ways to fly her for some time faster than usual.

Yep. But of course, the Spit Mk 1 and I think also the Hurri are not getting historical performance either, so as long as there are no Spit 2's in the game, everything is surprisingly balanced.

If you get caught by a spitfire who has more E than you you're in trouble, and if you try to TnB with the Allied aircraft you're not going to do well.

[CWMV]

Ok. So basically we are still at unhistoric FM (too slow) for the 109E. But there are some ways to fly her for some time faster than usual.

EDIT: Actually, that's about the best way to put it.
In level flight, no dives or other "tricks" I still cant best 450kph level at 10 meters. I was rather surprised!
Most seem to agree (see the spitII thread) that it should be at least 460kph level flight on the deck sans WEP.
Jeeze, I forgot how off it was. I just went around the problem I guess.

[TomcatViP]

Anyhow don't fly that low. Being toasted at 10m or 500m does not makes any differences.

On many occasion did I found myself keeping the distance with a 109 in my hurri. The fact is those guys were in cte dives and probably with a too low pitch setting. I had no prob to stay with them with coarse pitch (CSP) and 1/4 rad (no Boost cut out).

Nothing happen quickly when flying those planes that had globally the same perfs. What ever you choose to do you need to be a little patient and persevere before seeing any result.

So, the next thing that got them nailed is the lack of self persuasion. They started to turn toward me...level : you know how it ends.

@Doggles : The Hurri is certainly one of the best plane modeled (despite her magic boost that shld be corrected).

[Insuber]

Well firstly the FM's are wrong so expect change, but also I only said 'hang', and that'll be for a short time, and when the 109 driver get's his prop working he'll pull away with ease.

I reported it because it was pursuing me for a long time, he closed in, and he didn't have an energy advantage. I think that the manual PP would improve a bit the situation, but afaik the 109 had some 50 mph more, the E-1 doing 301 mph at sea level, and the Hurricane Mk I rated at 254 mph (prototype did 290 mph).

FM needs definitely an overhaul.

[Insuber]

Anyhow don't fly that low. Being toasted at 10m or 500m does not makes any differences.

On many occasion did I found myself keeping the distance with a 109 in my hurri. The fact is those guys were in cte dives and probably with a too low pitch setting. I had no prob to stay with them with coarse pitch (CSP) and 1/4 rad (no Boost cut out).

Nothing happen quickly when flying those planes that had globally the same perfs. What ever you choose to do you need to be a little patient and persevere before seeing any result.

So, the next thing that got them nailed is the lack of self persuasion. They started to turn toward me...level : you know how it ends.

@Doggles : The Hurri is certainly one of the best plane modeled (despite her magic boost that shld be corrected).

You're right, my bad for going low after a B&Z. After meeting the Hurri at same energy above Dover, I choose to disengage and dive to accelerate quickly and rush away, but I underestimated the Hurri's top speed in this game. Anyway I wasn't so fool to dogfight a Hurri ... :D. And I was saved by some mates close to the French coast, as usual ... :).

[CaptainDoggles]

Against a Hurri with more E than you you should dive/extend to gain speed and even out the energy states, and then begin a shallow, high speed climb.

[Insuber]

Against a Hurri with more E than you you should dive/extend to gain speed and even out the energy states, and then begin a shallow, high speed climb.

It's the best escape, but top speed should be much higher for the 109 in level flight, in RL.

[phoenix1963]

It was probably us in 56RAF ;)

The 109s are definitely a bit slow. I reckon the Hurris we fly are about right.
Usually the 109 escapes unless he's foolish enough to turn back. Teamwork can help too, if one of us keeps high we can take advantage of the thinner air while the other chases to occupy the 109.

Actually we're pretty vulnerable in a vertical turn fight.The 109 has excellent low speed turning capability, whereas we Hurris have a tendency to stall a wing - fatal on the deck.

S!
56RAF_phoenix








Yesterday on ATAG I ran on a 109 E4 for 10 minutes at full speed, low alt, with a Hurricane at my 6. The Hurri gained slowly on me, despite the auto prop pitch did it's job correctly in keeping the rpm at 2300. Another flaw of FM?

[TomcatViP]

Anyway I wasn't so fool to dogfight a Hurri ... :D. And I was saved by some mates close to the French coast, as usual ... :).

AAAhhhh Über mate !

From a lone wolf ;)