Hitler Died In Argentina.

[MB_Avro_UK]

An author claims that Hitler died in Argentina.


http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16090144


Best Regards,
MB_Avro

[AndyJWest]

An author claims that Hitler died in Argentina.

Yup. An author claims something that will help sell his book...

[Trooper117]

Everyone knows that.. he was taken there by aliens flying for the axis!

[Bewolf]

lol, and there I thought raaaid just posted again

[MD_Titus]

lol, and there I thought raaaid just posted again

exactly my thought on reading the thread title

[Trooper117]

lol, and there I thought raaaid just posted again

Ah, the difference there is that you would know that I'm just applying a little sarcastic humour.. Raaaid would actualy mean it! :mrgreen:

[Nicolo]

He died in the moon.
4KEueJnsu80

[BadAim]

"There is no evidence that Hitler died in the bunker" What a crock! I bought a book containing the entire autopsy report with all the forensic evidence at a yard sale, our erstwhile historian obviously didn't look too hard.

It's amazing how readily people will overlook the truth when it's inconvenient.

[AndyJWest]

It's amazing how readily people will overlook the truth when it's inconvenient.

Or profitable...

[Sternjaeger II]

weeeeeell, according to forensic reports and DNA tests done by the FBI on the alleged remains of Hitler's skulls (the one the Russians have), it seems it actually belonged to a woman in her 30s, not to a man in his late 50s. There is no evidence in fact that it's Hitler's remains the ones they have, since all dental records of the High Command were destroyed by Bormann's order in 1944, it's all done on connecting the witnessing of a few people with some charred bone bits.

There are a lot of theories about this whole thing, and come to think of it, why would Hitler want to die in a bunker in Berlin when he could have fled like many others did with Odessa? There are also at least 7 documented lookalikes that were used on several occasions to replace Hitler in different occasions for safety reasons.

I would be interested in reading the book, and understanding how they gathered evidence.

Some years ago there were rumours that the FBI and Hoover himself knew that Hitler had fled to Argentina before 1945, which was permitted in exchange of access to Nazi technology of the time.

Truth is that we will probably never know..

[mcler002]

to the time machine!!!

i see another back to the future movie coming out ..............

[Momod]

[QUOTE=MB_Avro_UK;349860]An author claims that Hitler died in Argentina.

Apparently in 1985 During an Elvis Concert!

[41Sqn_Stormcrow]

Rofl, Momod

[Redroach]

It's been conclusively proven that hitler died on 30 April 1945 in the Bunker. The Russians are not only in posession of that infamous skull fragment, they also saved some teeth, which were forensically examined by a german physician; his conclusion was that the teeth are indeed hitler's.
Also, several reliable witnesses saw hitler dead, among them Otto Günsche, Traudl Junge and Rochus Misch.
Furthermore, after the fall of the Soviet Union, archives revealed that Hitler was exhumed after his incomplete cremation in the garden of the Reichskanzlei by SMERSH, then secretly buried in or close to Magdeburg (then in the soviet occupational zone, later GDR), re-exhumed in the 1970, re-cremated and the ashes thrown into a river.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

exactly my thought on reading the thread titleSo it is official.. raiid has more than one handle ;)

[ACE-OF-ACES]

An author claims that Hitler died in Argentina.
Apparently in 1985 During an Elvis Concert!classic! ;)

[Oldschool61]

Yup. An author claims something that will help sell his book...

It works!! Look at how many copys the bible has sold with its unsubstantiated claims.

[BadAim]

It works!! Look at how many copys the bible has sold with its unsubstantiated claims.

I love how you guys have so much faith in your religion. God doesn't believe in you either, so you can stop proselytizing every single chance you get.

[_79_dev]

I don't belief that he died somewhere outside germany, he was so obsessed and convinced that he was 100% suicide able. If he was Japanese he would be the very first kamikaze. Beside if he escaped we would hear about him doing some crazy stuff anyway...

[Jatta Raso]

weeeeeell, according to forensic reports and DNA tests done by the FBI on the alleged remains of Hitler's skulls (the one the Russians have), it seems it actually belonged to a woman in her 30s, not to a man in his late 50s. There is no evidence in fact that it's Hitler's remains the ones they have, since all dental records of the High Command were destroyed by Bormann's order in 1944, it's all done on connecting the witnessing of a few people with some charred bone bits.

There are a lot of theories about this whole thing, and come to think of it, why would Hitler want to die in a bunker in Berlin when he could have fled like many others did with Odessa? There are also at least 7 documented lookalikes that were used on several occasions to replace Hitler in different occasions for safety reasons.

I would be interested in reading the book, and understanding how they gathered evidence.

Some years ago there were rumours that the FBI and Hoover himself knew that Hitler had fled to Argentina before 1945, which was permitted in exchange of access to Nazi technology of the time.

Truth is that we will probably never know..

it's safe to assume he would have great fear of ever being captured after all the events he had led to happen; his list of enemies was possibly the greatest ever in history, besides there's extensive evidence of the mental exhaustion he had reached by that time, and as we all know too well, he had all the fanaticism in him to adopt suicidal measures. so IMO his suicide is perfectly plausible, and personally what i find most likely to have happened.

[BadAim]

Plus there's Occam's Razor........It's just the simplest solution.

[Sternjaeger II]

uhmmm you know, a man with such an ego, who really thought he was invested with the mission of giving the Reich its old splendour and glory.. dunno really..

and again, there is no acceptable forensic evidence that the remains they found were Hitler's..

[Oldschool61]

and again, there is no acceptable forensic evidence that the remains they found were Hitler's..

You have to have faith lol

[Sternjaeger II]

You have to have faith lol

sure, but you can appreciate that the certification of the death of possibly one of the most evil men in human history might need a bit more of evidence..

[Oldschool61]

sure, but you can appreciate that the certification of the death of possibly one of the most evil men in human history might need a bit more of evidence..

Evil, he was just doing gods work, he said so many times. Actually he was fulfilling Martin Luthers dream.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Evil, he was just doing gods work, he said so many times. Actually he was fulfilling Martin Luthers dream.
Bartender.. Ill have what he is drinking

[Oldschool61]

Bartender.. Ill have what he is drinking

A tall glass of facts for this man!!

[ACE-OF-ACES]

A tall glass of facts for this man!!
Pffffffffft! LOL!

Nice try, gold star for effort, but no sale

[ATAG_Doc]

And little elves build toys at the north pole for Santa to deliver to the whole world.

http://www.cspdisplay.com/Animation/Images/Scene/14_Main.jpg

[speculum jockey]

Some years ago there were rumours that the FBI and Hoover himself knew that Hitler had fled to Argentina before 1945, which was permitted in exchange of access to Nazi technology of the time.

Truth is that we will probably never know..

Why would they want "permission" for something they were doing anyways. Nazi scientists were more than happy to have an "all expenses paid trip" to the US to be put up in a sweet apartment and get paid a great wage. As opposed to being kidnapped by the soviets to work in some lab in Siberia out of the stone age.

[MD_Titus]

So it is official.. raiid has more than one handle ;)

the spelling and capitaisation gave it away as not being his, although...

having said that, the most obvious way of raaaaid appearing "undercover" would be to alter his trademark posting tics.

[Oldschool61]

Pffffffffft! LOL!

Nice try, gold star for effort, but no sale

Sounds like someones choking on the truth

[IamNotDavid]

Some years ago there were rumours that the FBI and Hoover himself knew that Hitler had fled to Argentina before 1945, which was permitted in exchange of access to Nazi technology of the time.


That is utterly moronic. Hitler's scientists had a choice between helping us or the Soviets. Hitler was not a factor.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

to be put up in a sweet apartment and get paid a great wage.
LOL! Well as someone who works at WSMR, and actully works in the same building that Von Bran worked in, I can assure you there are no sweet apartments to be had on this post.. This post where Von and his buds were force to stay and work for years after the war ended. Bettter than tha USSR? You bet, but far from a sweet apartment.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Sounds like someones choking on the truth
So let me see if I can understand your so called logic here

It is Christianity (Judeo Christians) that caused Hitler to do what he did?

Hitler

The guy who killed not only Jews, but all forms of religion that was in competition with the Nazi belief system

Hitler

The German that wanted to and was in the process of creating his 'own' Nazi religion based on some made up wicka form of German tribal history?

Is that what you expect us to belive?

And they say 'we' need a leap of faith! LOL!

[Sternjaeger II]

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/fbi-believed-hitler-faked-his-1945-suicide/148894-2.html

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16090144

well, the Allies knew about the research on nuclear weapons done by the Germans, and I would think it's not like they left the potential escape to the very last minute.. accessing that info in 1943 or 1944 would have been of vital importance for the race to nuclear weapons.

I'm not saying I believe it all of course, but I wouldn't even rule it out completely. The fact still remains that there is nothing that proves that what they found were the rests of Hitler and Eva Braun. The modern forensic evidence gathered by FBI experts seems to tell that the skull bits found do not belong to a man in his late 50s. I am pretty confident that finding a body with a bullet wound to the head wouldn't have been a hard task to accomplish in Berlin in 1945.

As for the witnesses that reported the facts: if they were devoted enough to spend their last days in a bunker with Hitler, I really don't see why the few of them could have as well decided to do their ultimate act of faith and lie about Hitler's fate.

In any case, I do not understand on which basis you lot think this couldn't be even remotely possible.

[IamNotDavid]

The modern forensic evidence gathered by FBI experts seems to tell that the skull bits found do not belong to a man in his late 50s.


Do you have a link to this report? And to the report which says the teeth the Russians have is not Hitler's?

[IamNotDavid]

In any case, I do not understand on which basis you lot think this couldn't be even remotely possible.

Because there were multiple witnesses and the odds that all of them would maintain this lie for the rest of their lives is pretty close to ZERO.

[Sternjaeger II]

Do you have a link to this report? And to the report which says the teeth the Russians have is not Hitler's?

from good ol' wiki:
"According to the Russian Federal Security Service, a fragment of human skull stored in its archives and displayed to the public in a 2000 exhibition came from Hitler's remains. However, the authenticity of the skull fragment was challenged by historians and researchers,[277] and DNA analysis conducted in 2009 showed the skull fragment to be that of a woman. Analysis of the sutures between the skull plates indicated that it belonged to a 20–40-year-old individual.[278]"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1216455/Hitlers-skull-really-womans-Fresh-doubts-death-tests-bullet-hole.html

but anyway, if dental records of the high command were destroyed, as per Bormann's 1944 order, how could they say they recognised the rests from their teeth? Bormann's dental record themselves were reconstructed "from memory" by his former dentist to identify his remains.. really guys? :rolleyes:

[Sternjaeger II]

Because there were multiple witnesses and the odds that all of them would maintain this lie for the rest of their lives is pretty close to ZERO.

yeah, well you might be aware of the hysterical faith and support the Germans had for Hitler. Do you really think that 20 (I say 20 as a hypothetical number) people couldn't swear on a oath of faith and lie? If you don't believe this is possible then there's no point in continuing this conversation.

[IamNotDavid]

but anyway, if dental records of the high command were destroyed, as per Bormann's 1944 order, how could they say they recognised the rests from their teeth? Bormann's dental record themselves were reconstructed "from memory" by his former dentist to identify his remains.. really guys? :rolleyes:

Most likely the records were not actually destroyed, that's how. :rolleyes:

In any case, the idea that all the witnesses would have carried the lie of Hitler's death to their graves is completely absurd.

[IamNotDavid]

yeah, well you might be aware of the hysterical faith and support the Germans had for Hitler. Do you really think that 20 (I say 20 as a hypothetical number) people couldn't swear on a oath of faith and lie? If you don't believe this is possible then there's no point in continuing this conversation.

No, I don't believe it for a second. A lie that big would be impossible to keep if there were 3 people who knew the truth, never mind the 20+ who probably knew.

BTW, that "hysterical faith" was long gone by 1945.

[FFCW_Urizen]

And on what facts do you say that faith in hitler was gone by 45, when even people living in dachau pretended to not know what was happening there? but why do we bother anyway, he is dead either way, no way round that.

[IamNotDavid]

And on what facts do you say that faith in hitler was gone by 45, when even people living in dachau pretended to not know what was happening there? but why do we bother anyway, he is dead either way, no way round that.

The fact that even Himmler was trying to negotiate with the Allies. The idea that so many people would lie about Hitler's death is utterly absurd.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Actually your very close to the facts.
It was actually Matin Luthers preachings against the jewish problem in the 1500's. Luther's 1543 book, "On the Jews and their lies" took Jewish hatred to a new level when he proposed to set fire to their synagogues and schools, to take away their homes, forbad them to pray or teach, or even to utter God's name. Luther wanted to "be rid of them" and requested that the government and ministers deal with the problem. He requested pastors and preachers to follow his example of issuing warnings against the Jews. He goes so far as to claim that "We are at fault in not slaying them" for avenging the death of Jesus Christ. Hitler's Nazi government in the 1930s and 40s fit Luther's desires to a tee. In Mein Kampf, Hitler listed Martin Luther as one of the greatest reformers.
I noticed that you avoided the fact that Hitler was in the process of creating his own religion.

I understand why, it does not 'fit' into your line of reasoning!

So ignore it and try and change the topic ASAP.. As you did by going on about Martin Luther.. As if I and others were under some false impression that Hitler was the 'first' to blame Jews for their short coming

I'm sure some might fall for it

But thankfully not all

[FFCW_Urizen]

yeah, "good ol´" himmler wanted to team up with the british/americans to fight of the russians, no need for a führer there, so it´s easy to say he´s dead, ain´t it.

[IamNotDavid]

yeah, "good ol´" himmler wanted to team up with the british/americans to fight of the russians, no need for a führer there, so it´s easy to say he´s dead, ain´t it.

You asked what fact supported my claim about the lack of faith, and I told you. The rats were leaving the ship, and Himmler was one of the biggest rats.

[Sternjaeger II]

Most likely the records were not actually destroyed, that's how. :rolleyes:

erm, and what are you basing your assumption on? :confused:


In any case, the idea that all the witnesses would have carried the lie of Hitler's death to their graves is completely absurd.

I still don't see why it's absurd, so many people died bringing their secrets (or others') to their grave: think about all the people that work for the secret services or that were involved in illegal actions.. I really do not comprehend why it's not plausible.

[IamNotDavid]

erm, and what are you basing your assumption on? :confused:


Because I've seen the records on 1 of the dozen or so "this is how Hitler died" history shows.


I still don't see why it's absurd, so many people died bringing their secrets (or others') to their grave: think about all the people that work for the secret services or that were involved in illegal actions.. I really do not comprehend why it's not plausible.

It's not plausible because this would have been the biggest secret in modern history. It might be possible for 1 or 2 people to keep that secret, but it's not possible for everyone who would have known. The idea that Hitler could get 20+ minions to lie for him even as his closest supporters (Himmler and Goering) are stabbing him in the back is too absurd to even consider. It's one of the most idiotic things I have ever heard.

[Redroach]

erm, and what are you basing your assumption on? :confused:



I still don't see why it's absurd, so many people died bringing their secrets (or others') to their grave: think about all the people that work for the secret services or that were involved in illegal actions.. I really do not comprehend why it's not plausible.

Oh the conspiracy theorists! I love them, they are like those small, angry dogs that bark all the time in high pitch :rolleyes:

At least Otto Günsche remained a convinced Nazi until his death. Don't you think he would have loved to spice the whole story a bit up, in order to mystify his Führer? Count Mohnke in, and possibly Heinz Linge.
The absurd thing is: It's not absurd in Absurdistan!

[Sternjaeger II]

Because I've seen the records on 1 of the dozen or so "this is how Hitler died" history shows.

you might have seen reports or results, it's a known fact the records were destroyed.

[qoute]
It's not plausible because this would have been the biggest secret in modern history. It might be possible for 1 or 2 people to keep that secret, but it's not possible for everyone who would have known. The idea that Hitler could get 20+ minions to lie for him even as his closest supporters (Himmler and Goering) are stabbing him in the back is too absurd to even consider. It's one of the most idiotic things I have ever heard.[/QUOTE]

Really? You probably also believe that Lee Harvey Oswald shot Kennedy all by himself :rolleyes:

you're just looking for another trolling occasion, I personally never cared too much for your opinions, but if you have facts that state without the shadow of a doubt that the remains the Russians allegedly found in a crater close to the bunker were indeed those of Hitler and Eva Braun, then feel free to expose them here, otherwise feel free not to share your opinions, especially if they're denigratory of other people's thoughts and generally offensive.

[IamNotDavid]

you might have seen reports or results, it's a known fact the records were destroyed.



No, I saw x-rays. So the reports about the records being destroyed were probably exaggerated.


Really? You probably also believe that Lee Harvey Oswald shot Kennedy all by himself :rolleyes:


Non sequitur. :rolleyes:


you're just looking for another trolling occasion,


I'm not the one making idiotic and unsupported claims about Hitler escaping from Berlin.


I personally never cared too much for your opinions, but if you have facts that state without the shadow of a doubt that the remains the Russians allegedly found in a crater close to the bunker were indeed those of Hitler and Eva Braun, then feel free to expose them here, otherwise feel free not to share your opinions, especially if they're denigratory of other people's thoughts and generally offensive.

You're the one making the idiotic claim that Hitler may have survived, it's up to you to provide the evidence. So far you've got NOTHING.

[Sternjaeger II]

Oh the conspiracy theorists! I love them, they are like those small, angry dogs that bark all the time in high pitch :rolleyes:

At least Otto Günsche remained a convinced Nazi until his death. Don't you think he would have loved to spice the whole story a bit up, in order to mystify his Führer? Count Mohnke in, and possibly Heinz Linge.
The absurd thing is: It's not absurd in Absurdistan!

I'm sorry, but the fact that the remains the Russians have are of Hitler are as much as a theory as the one that states he fled to Argentina. There is no forensic evidence that the remains they have are of Adolf Hitler.

[Oldschool61]

I noticed that you avoided the fact that Hitler was in the process of creating his own religion.

I understand why, it does not 'fit' into your line of reasoning!

So ignore it and try and change the topic ASAP.. As you did by going on about Martin Luther.. As if I and others were under some false impression that Hitler was the 'first' to blame Jews for their short coming

I'm sure some might fall for it

But thankfully not all

None of what you are stating is true. Perhaps you can site your sources for your claims. Everything I have stated is based on historical facts yet not one of your statements has any credible sources.

[Sternjaeger II]

No, I saw x-rays. So the reports about the records being destroyed were probably exaggerated.

you saw X-Rays of what exactly? And what were they compared with?


Non sequitur. :rolleyes:

yeah, you proved my point, ta.


I'm not the one making idiotic and unsupported claims about Hitler escaping from Berlin.

You're the one making the idiotic claim that Hitler may have survived, it's up to you to provide the evidence. So far you've got NOTHING.

I'm not saying that either, the author of the book says so, but before calling other people names, a habit that you have and that is really out of place, you might want to hear other people's opinion, instead of going LALALALALALALALALA!

Is there any evidence that proves the bones the Russians have are indeed of Hitler? No. The skull bit they showed is of a woman between her 20s and 40s, as per forensic evidence of FBI experts, and the alleged jaw bone they have is apparently "too fragile" to show to the world.. if you're happy with that explanation then yes, they have Hitler's remains.

If you have a bit of common sense and think that maybe there's a remote chance the Russians are saying a load of baloney, then you might want to look at what facts are available, none of which in fact proves what the Russians claim.

Did Hitler survive? Go to Argentina? Antartica? The Moon?! I don't know, but I would wait to read what others found out about it before calling them idiots.

[Sternjaeger II]

None of what you are stating is true. Perhaps you can site your sources for your claims. Everything I have stated is based on historical facts yet not one of your statements has any credible sources.

watch it man, some people here are afraid of historical facts, they think they can beat any knowledge with their blind ignorance, and will start calling you names and offend you just cos they know no better.. :rolleyes:

[MD_Titus]

hang on wait, are people actually saying he died in argentina?

oh i love the internet!

always thought the soviets flushed the cremated remains they had into the moscow sewers anyway.

[Sternjaeger II]

hang on wait, are people actually saying he died in argentina?

oh i love the internet!

always thought the soviets flushed the cremated remains they had into the moscow sewers anyway.

there are two authors who allegedly gathered enough evidence and witnessing to write a book on it. Regardless of what you think of it, I still think it would be an interesting read, it's up to you whether to take it as an evidence report or a novel :mrgreen:

[IamNotDavid]

you saw X-Rays of what exactly? And what were they compared with?

What the F do you think the x-rays were off? They were from his dentist. They were compared with the teeth the Russians had.


I'm not saying that either, the author of the book says so, but before calling other people names, a habit that you have and that is really out of place, you might want to hear other people's opinion, instead of going LALALALALALALALALA!

Does he explain how 20+ people would go to their graves lying for Hitler even as his closest supporters stab him in the back? If not, there is no point in listening to him. And I'm not the one going LALALALALALALA here.


Is there any evidence that proves the bones the Russians have are indeed of Hitler? No. The skull bit they showed is of a woman between her 20s and 40s, as per forensic evidence of FBI experts, and the alleged jaw bone they have is apparently "too fragile" to show to the world.. if you're happy with that explanation then yes, they have Hitler's remains.

Don't know and don't care. If you don't have a plausible explanation why everyone is lying for Hitler, your story is a fraud. That's why Himmler and Goering are such a big problem for you. They were his closest supporters, and they both stabbed him in the back. Do you really think that low level minions would have acted any differently?


If you have a bit of common sense and think that maybe there's a remote chance the Russians are saying a load of baloney, then you might want to look at what facts are available, none of which in fact proves what the Russians claim.


See above about no plausible justification for lying.


Did Hitler survive? Go to Argentina? Antartica? The Moon?! I don't know, but I would wait to read what others found out about it before calling them idiots.

See about about no plausible justification for lying.

The main problem for this idiocy is that you can't justify how everyone would lie for Hitler when all their incentive is to stab him in the back (see Himmler et al). Not only is it implausible that everyone he left behind would lie for him, it's idiotic.

[IamNotDavid]

Non sequitur.



yeah, you proved my point, ta.

All we seem to have proved here is that you don't know what a non sequitur is.

[Sternjaeger II]

What the F do you think the x-rays were off? They were from his dentist. They were compared with the teeth the Russians had.

Even if this actually matches, you can appreciate that Russian intelligence could produce such evidence, don't you think? They needed him dead, or at least they needed some sort of evidence.



Does he explain how 20+ people would go to their graves lying for Hitler even as his closest supporters stab him in the back? If not, there is no point in listening to him. And I'm not the one going LALALALALALALA here.



Don't know and don't care. If you don't have a plausible explanation why everyone is lying for Hitler, your story is a fraud. That's why Himmler and Goering are such a big problem for you. They were his closest supporters, and they both stabbed him in the back. Do you really think that low level minions would have acted any differently?



See above about no plausible justification for lying.



See about about no plausible justification for lying.

The main problem for this idiocy is that you can't justify how everyone would lie for Hitler when all their incentive is to stab him in the back (see Himmler et al). Not only is it implausible that everyone he left behind would lie for him, it's idiotic.

I really think you fail to comprehend the fanatism around Hitler's persona. Kids and old men were fighting a lost battle to defend Berlin, they could have surrendered, but they didn't. The only one in the high ranks that had this fanatic view of Hitler was probably Goebbels, the rest of the big wigs were just trying to save their asses or pursuing their plans: Himmler was a cunning bastard who was running his personal agenda, Doenitz had already found an agreement with the Allies, Goering was an utter imbecile, but he surely didn't love his Fuhrer more than he loved himself..

For a better understanding of German fanatism for Hitler read "History of the Third Reich" by your compatriot William L. Shirer, he really managed to give an accurate portrayal of Germany as seen with the eyes of a foreigner.

[Sternjaeger II]

All we seem to have proved here is that you don't know what a non sequitur is.

that's the answer I would expect by someone who believes that Oswald was indeed the killer of JFK. Otherwise a simple "no, I'm not an idiot, thank you" would have sufficed.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

None of what you are stating is true. Perhaps you can site your sources for your claims.
Just because you are not aware of the facts does not make them un-true

[IamNotDavid]

I really think you fail to comprehend the fanatism around Hitler's persona.

No, I comprehend it completely. At the end of the war his closest supporters stabbed him in the back. What part of that are you not understanding? These people didn't fight fanatically to the end, they tried to save their own backsides. The people in the bunker weren't fighting fanatically, they were hiding. If one of then could have got better treatment for turning on Hitler they would have done so in a heartbeat. The idea that they all conspired to lie to help Hitler abandon them is one of the most idiotic things I have ever heard. It's almost as bad as the fake Moon landing morons.

[Sternjaeger II]

Just because you are not aware of the facts does not make them un-true

he has a point though: can you cite your references? :confused:

[IamNotDavid]

that's the answer I would expect by someone who believes that Oswald was indeed the killer of JFK. Otherwise a simple "no, I'm not an idiot, thank you" would have sufficed.

Google "Non sequitur". Seriously. You look like a fool.

[Sternjaeger II]

No, I comprehend it completely. At the end of the war his closest supporters stabbed him in the back. What part of that are you not understanding? These people didn't fight fanatically to the end, they tried to save their own backsides. The people in the bunker weren't fighting fanatically, they were hiding. If one of then could have got better treatment for turning on Hitler they would have done so in a heartbeat. The idea that they all conspired to lie to help Hitler abandon them is one of the most idiotic things I have ever heard. It's almost as bad as the fake Moon landing morons.

I'm afraid we're already running around in circles here. Before giving any absolute statement like yours I would at least take into account other people's points of view and evidences, then form my own opinion. I don't think you have any intention to do it, because you already know the truth.

I think you made your point, you can now move on to the next thread.

[Sternjaeger II]

Google "Non sequitur". Seriously. You look like a fool.

..you're doing it again Hayward, you really need to calm down man.

[IamNotDavid]

I'm afraid we're already running around in circles here. Before giving any absolute statement like yours I would at least take into account other people's points of view and evidences, then form my own opinion. I don't think you have any intention to do it, because you already know the truth.

I think you made your point, you can now move on to the next thread.

No, I really don't have to consider the views of conspiracy nutcases who can't possibly explain away massive holes in their crazy plots. In fact, I rather enjoy mocking them.

[IamNotDavid]

..you're doing it again Hayward, you really need to calm down man.

Google is your friend. Use it.

[Oldschool61]

Just because you are not aware of the facts does not make them un-true

Didnt think you could give sources!!

[ACE-OF-ACES]

he has a point though: can you cite your references? :confused:
Yup, but for everyone one I can post you can find one by an atheist saying the opposite. They will twist it and justify it anyway they can to paint him as a religious (christain) person.

So what is one to do knowing there is no definitive quote to prove it one way or another?

Simple

You review Hitler actions..

And upon doing so I think only the hard core atheist will do so and conclude Hitler as a religious (christain) person

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Didnt think you could give sources!!
Your right about one thing

You didnt think

[Sternjaeger II]

No, I really don't have to consider the views of conspiracy nutcases who can't possibly explain away massive holes in their crazy plots. In fact, I rather enjoy mocking them.

ok.

[He111]

every country has their "adolf" .. ready to rally the masses of unemployed when the next depression hits .. that's why our beloved leaders are printing money like there's no tomorrow .. "WE are the 99%" who'll vote for any wacko . when we're desperate and starving!

.

[BadAim]

The fact of the matter OldSchool is that what Martin Luther felt about Jews is irrelevant to how Christians today feel about them, just as how Stalin felt about them is irrelevant to how you feel about them. What Hitler felt about anything is irrelevant to how any sane person feels about anything.

If you care to keep proselytizing, I'm more than happy to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

[Redroach]

Is there any evidence that proves the bones the Russians have are indeed of Hitler? No. The skull bit they showed is of a woman between her 20s and 40s, as per forensic evidence of FBI experts, and the alleged jaw bone they have is apparently "too fragile" to show to the world.. if you're happy with that explanation then yes, they have Hitler's remains.



yeah, the 'alleged' jawbone they 'allegedly' have is 'allegedly' soo fragile that it was the main topic of a german small-budget documentary, where a noted german dentist and forensics expert examined the teeth, compared them with records and clearly known facts about hitler's teeth, as well as reviewing footage of hitler speaking in order to get glimpses of his teeth for further comparison.
I know you weirdo conspiracy theorists, really. There's absolutely NO hope to ever bring reason to anyone of you (@david: Don't try, its wasted time, really) or to resolve your I-know-more-than-the-average-joe complex. And your next statement will be: "Show me that 'alleged' documentary". But I'm not your servant and the burden of proof lies entirely with the wierdo ('weirdo' is freestyle spelling, right?) faction, as it has always been. It ran on german TV station N24 or n-tv. Go find it. Final comment. Hitler died on 30.04.45.
Mh well, another comment/question, just out of interest: How would you connect the statements:
-A.H. married Eva Braun on 29.04.45.
-The corpses of A.H. and E.B. were placed in a shell crater in the Reichskanzlei and a cremation was attempted
-That skull fragment, found in the same box as the teeth(see documentary), could perhaps point not to A.H. but to a woman in her 30s
?!?

P.S.:Newsflash: The US of A never landed on the moon! Proof: The moon is actually the backside of the sun. Q.E.D.!

[FFCW_Urizen]

-That skull fragment, found in the same box as the teeth(see documentary), could perhaps point not to A.H. but to a woman in her 30s
?!?


You spoiled me here Redroach, i was about to say that too, after doing some reading on wikipedia (yeah, that funny thing rumoured to be full of inaccuracies :D ).
Eva Braun was born 1912, so there is a good chance that the skull fragment is hers. The conspiracies of him surviving and fleeing the war have been around for many years now, simply because his body was burnt.

Did he die? Yes!
Did he die by his own hand? Maybe, maybe not.

@David: There were even Fanatics still present in the late 50s, saying that Hitler was a great man, just fyi.

PS: cmon guys, JFK wasn´t killed by Oswald, he was killed by the smoking man ;) .

[Sternjaeger II]

I still do not understand the hysterical/rude/offensive attitude of some of you guys, is it possible to have a civilised conversation in here anymore? :confused:

[FFCW_Urizen]

if i was rude or offensive, i apologize as this wasn´t my intention.

[Sternjaeger II]

if i was rude or offensive, i apologize as this wasn´t my intention.

no man, it wasn't you I was referring to :-)

as per your point on the skull remains, the question is that they show a bullet hole wound, which is inconsistent with the death of Eva Braun.

[FFCW_Urizen]

According to what i´ve read, the relationship between hitler and braun was troubled at best. 1 possibility is, that her will to live was greater than her "love" for the führer and so ended up shot.

[Sternjaeger II]

According to what i´ve read, the relationship between hitler and braun was troubled at best. 1 possibility is, that her will to live was greater than her "love" for the führer and so ended up shot.

According to witnesses of the time, they heard only one gunshot, while Braun had bitten a cyanide capsule.

[Sternjaeger II]

an interesting read, with many controversial points

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/death_of_adolf_hitler1.htm

[IamNotDavid]

@David: There were even Fanatics still present in the late 50s, saying that Hitler was a great man, just fyi.


I never claimed that all the fanatics were gone. However, the fanatics at his side at the end were mostly stabbing him in the back, not lying for him.

[IamNotDavid]

I still do not understand the hysterical/rude/offensive attitude of some of you guys, is it possible to have a civilised conversation in here anymore? :confused:

I'm not being hysterical, rude, of offensive.

[Sternjaeger II]

I never claimed that all the fanatics were gone. However, the fanatics at his side at the end were mostly stabbing him in the back, not lying for him.

this is speculation.

I'm not being hysterical, rude, of offensive.

Seriously? Since when calling other people's opinions "idiotic" is not considered rude or offensive? It seems to me that the only way of communication you know is denigration of the people that have opinions that differ from yours.

[IamNotDavid]

this is speculation.

It's a known fact that Himmler and Goering were stabbing him in the back. And it's absolutely hysterical that someone pushing a scheme about Hitler escaping Berlin is accusing anyone of "speculation".


Seriously? Since when calling other people's opinions "idiotic" is not considered rude or offensive? It seems to me that the only way of communication you know is denigration of the people that have opinions that differ from yours.

The evidence that the "Hitler died in Argentina" claim is idiotic is overwhelming.

[Sternjaeger II]

It's a known fact that Himmler and Goering were stabbing him in the back. And it's absolutely hysterical that someone pushing a scheme about Hitler escaping Berlin is accusing anyone of "speculation".


it wasn't just Himmler and Goering around him at the time. I don't think Hitler trusted them at all anyway, and not just in the end of the war. If he really had an escape plan in mind he would have needed accomplices and some staging to be arranged, so a fake suicide is a possibility, there's no better witnesses than the ones that believe in what they say.

I'm not saying he did anyway, I haven't read the book myself and can't tell if what the authors wrote is plausible or a lot of baloney. The only thing I'm sure of is that there never was satisfying evidence that the remains provided by the Russians were indeed the ones of Adolf Hitler or Eva Braun.


The evidence that the "Hitler died in Argentina" claim is idiotic is overwhelming.

It's your opinion, others might disagree and think you're the idiot because you believe that all the Governments tell you is the truth. Before calling other people's opinions' idiotic I'd do a reality check myself..

[IamNotDavid]

i
It's your opinion, others might disagree and think you're the idiot because you believe that all the Governments tell you is the truth. Before calling other people's opinions' idiotic I'd do a reality check myself..

My views on Hitler escaping Berlin have nothing to do with what the government says. It has everything to do with the moronic notion that something like that would be kept secret by a group of people who have every incentive to stab him in the back, which some of his most important supporters are already doing at that time. That's the reality check, and it doesn't support nutty conspiracy theories.

[Sternjaeger II]

My views on Hitler escaping Berlin have nothing to do with what the government says. It has everything to do with the moronic notion that something like that would be kept secret by a group of people who have every incentive to stab him in the back, which some of his most important supporters are already doing at that time. That's the reality check, and it doesn't support nutty conspiracy theories.

Fair enough. I still find it out of place to use words like "moronic", "nutty" and "idiotic", just because it differs from your idea.

[IamNotDavid]

Fair enough. I still find it out of place to use words like "moronic", "nutty" and "idiotic", just because it differs from your idea.

I'm not using those words because this scheme differs from my idea, I'm using them because this scheme differs from any common sense and sanity.

[spahis]

Thanks for confirming what I said. Although there are plenty of Hitler quotes of him saying hes doing the lords or gods work. And fyi pretty much every nazi was a christian or are Lutherins and protestants not christians?


If you were Satan, what would you do to turn people against christianity?

Judging the whole religion by the actions of those who "claim to do the God's work" is quite funny. And being a protestant or catholic or lutheran doesn't really tell much about person's beliefs. It was and is still a big part of western culture to go to church on weddings and funerals even though 99% of those people don't give a feck about Bible.

[Sternjaeger II]

I'm not using those words because this scheme differs from my idea, I'm using them because this scheme differs from any common sense and sanity.

I don't think I will ever understand you man.

First of all, it's not like the theories they make are absolutely out of this world, but even if they were, you're saying that if you're in front of a "Elvis is on the Moon with UFOs" person you'd start calling him names because what he says differs from any common sense and sanity? Or is it an attitude you reserve to internet forums? :confused:

[Igo kyu]

It was and is still a big part of western culture to go to church on weddings and funerals even though 99% of those people don't give a feck about Bible.
Going to those doesn't require you to claim to be Christian, the only people that is required of is the people getting married and the deceased. There are registry offices in the UK and I believe elsewhere for atheist weddings.

[IamNotDavid]

First of all, it's not like the theories they make are absolutely out of this world,


Yes, it is. It's completely ridiculous


but even if they were, you're saying that if you're in front of a "Elvis is on the Moon with UFOs" person you'd start calling him names because what he says differs from any common sense and sanity? Or is it an attitude you reserve to internet forums? :confused:

If someone tried to sell that to me I'd have no problem telling him that it's idiotic to his face. I do it all the time when people try to justify the Iraq Disaster.

[Sternjaeger II]

Yes, it is. It's completely ridiculous

we will have to agree to disagree on this one me thinks..


If someone tried to sell that to me I'd have no problem telling him that it's idiotic to his face. I do it all the time when people try to justify the Iraq Disaster.

Seriously? In America? As much as I agree with you on the Iraq disaster, I'm surprised you still haven't been shot man lol ;)

[IamNotDavid]

Seriously? In America? As much as I agree with you on the Iraq disaster, I'm surprised you still haven't been shot man lol ;)

Why? Most Americans now realize that it was an idiotic mistake.

[Trooper117]

Maybe you would like to come and tell the members of my regiment who had mates who died there, to their face, that it was a mistake...

[FFCW_Urizen]

i think something similar will happen :D

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/epic-fail-photos-swing-dancing-fail.gif

but with all due respect to your fallen comrades, if history has taught us one thing, it is that every war is a mistake.

[IamNotDavid]

Maybe you would like to come and tell the members of my regiment who had mates who died there, to their face, that it was a mistake...

I had no problem telling it to a Navy SEAL in the O Club at NAS Oceana, I'm sure I'd have no problem telling it to your buddies.

The fact that lots of people were killed for nothing does not make it less of an idiotic mistake, it makes it MORE of an idiotic mistake.

[Trooper117]

I don't care who you told it to before.. if you were to come the same attitude in our mess, you wouldn't have the same outcome.
In fact your brazen attitude, regardless of the politics would guarantee it.. You can pm me.. I'll even arrange it, then you can spout off as much as you like.
If you don't like the idea of coming to the mess, you can say the same to me in person..

[IamNotDavid]

I don't care who you told it to before.. if you were to come the same attitude in our mess, you wouldn't have the same outcome.
In fact your brazen attitude, regardless of the politics would guarantee it.. You can pm me.. I'll even arrange it, then you can spout off as much as you like.
If you don't like the idea of coming to the mess, you can say the same to me in person..

What's wrong with my attitude? There was no WMD. There was no Al Qaeda (well, not until we created a great situation for them). There was no reason to invade. We pissed away at least $1 trillion and thousands of lives for nothing (well, not completely nothing, we also dramatically increased Iran's influence in Iraq). By every measure it was a disaster. Sorry if you're pissed off about your buddies being killed for nothing, but that's exactly what has happened, and that has nothing to do with my "attitude".

[Trooper117]

Like it or not the whole Iraq war/invasion was a huge mistake. It was just one of GWB's bad ideas. Hell, Afghanistan wasnt even done right. We should have been out of there after a year.

I'm not interested in politics, like any soldier, we just go and do our job when told to.
But there are too many people on here that spout off believing there is going to be no consequences to what they say, just because its on 'the internet' and it makes it impersonal.
I'm more interested that someone believes they could just walk into another persons country, establishment, and tell people who risked everything, and some paid the price, and tell them they died in an 'idiotic war' and walk away unscathed.
That is a blatant, arrogant, uncaring attitude, that would be recieved and delt with accordingly..
I've spent alot of time working with many foriegn military contingents, and I would never go into their establishment and arrogantly tell them what I thought..

[IamNotDavid]

I'm not interested in politics, like any soldier, we just go and do our job when told to.
But there are too many people on here that spout off believing there is going to be no consequences to what they say, just because its on 'the internet' and it makes it impersonal.
I'm more interested that someone believes they could just walk into another persons country, establishment, and tell people who risked everything, and some paid the price, and tell them they died in an 'idiotic war' and walk away unscathed.
That is a blatant, arrogant, uncaring attitude, that would be recieved and delt with accordingly..
I've spent alot of time working with many foriegn military contingents, and I would never go into their establishment and arrogantly tell them what I thought..

Sorry if you don't want to hear the truth about that disaster. You might want to avoid the internet for the next 20+ years.

By the way, you might also want to read up on that "freedom of speech" bullsh!t. It's one of the things you're supposed to be defending.

[Sternjaeger II]

...aaand here we go again... :rolleyes:

guys, at least have the decency of offending each other in another thread on the subject..

[MD_Titus]

concur urizen

Fair enough. I still find it out of place to use words like "moronic", "nutty" and "idiotic", just because it differs from your idea.
...
I'm not using those words because this scheme differs from my idea, I'm using them because this scheme differs from any common sense and sanity.
zing, i believe

I don't care who you told it to before.. if you were to come the same attitude in our mess, you wouldn't have the same outcome.
In fact your brazen attitude, regardless of the politics would guarantee it.. You can pm me.. I'll even arrange it, then you can spout off as much as you like.
If you don't like the idea of coming to the mess, you can say the same to me in person..
threats of physical violence on a public forum? tut tut tut...
I'm not interested in politics, like any soldier, we just go and do our job when told to.
But there are too many people on here that spout off believing there is going to be no consequences to what they say, just because its on 'the internet' and it makes it impersonal.
I'm more interested that someone believes they could just walk into another persons country, establishment, and tell people who risked everything, and some paid the price, and tell them they died in an 'idiotic war' and walk away unscathed.
That is a blatant, arrogant, uncaring attitude, that would be recieved and delt with accordingly..
I've spent alot of time working with many foriegn military contingents, and I would never go into their establishment and arrogantly tell them what I thought..

uh, no offence, but didn't that kind of moral opt-out bite the dust after my-lai. how can you not take an interest in what you are being ordered to do, even if you then lay it aside as "they know what they're doing".

the loss of service personnel in iraq and afghanistan is all the more tragic for it being, after years of hindsight, a pretty pointless venture which was bungled horribly. especially iraq. afghanistan is debatable at least, but iraq? jeez.

anyway, so, how did hitler make his way to argentina, are we talking prototype submarine here?

[AndyJWest]

how did hitler make his way to argentina

In the prototype Nazi flying saucer, obviously... :rolleyes:

[He111]

Hitler was a wornout, shattered junkie by '45 .. who cares if he went to south American ?:rolleyes:

.

[KeBrAnTo]

Maybe you would like to come and tell the members of my regiment who had mates who died there, to their face, that it was a mistake...

Too many testosterone guys round here IMHO.

I don't understand why having it for real they move to a sim but well .... :)

- Yes!
- No!
- I'll kill you ! :rolleyes:


Pathetic.