please fix the manual prop pitch of the E4

[David198502]

its good that one can switch between auto and manual pp.
but the manual pp changes way too slow.it needs about 8-10seconds for a whole circle on the gauge and it just keeps changing even if you stopped pushing the relevant button.it turns for a few more seconds until it comes to a standstill.
the automatic prop pitch is pretty bad implemented either i think.at least thats my opinion.i could increase speed way faster with the manual one in the previous beta version.it tends to overrev now.and it reacts too slow to the changing condition.but maybe thats the way it worked in real life i dont know.but the manual prop pitch should just work like it used to in the previous patches please.

EDIT:this behaviour starts after a few minutes.the first moments the pp reacts like it used to.

Edit:
ok...to support my arguments i uploaded this vid.
i know the recording tool in Cliffs of Dover is bugged and the gauges dont work correctly due to it(it would deserve its own bug report), but i think you can still see the different speed of the clockwise.
furthermore in the second part of the vid, i stopped changing the pitch at exactly 10 o'clock, but the clockwise moves until 11:15.
the vid shows the manual pp.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mBG8nADPLQ

[skouras]

correct
also if you press to increase or decrease and leave it
it still moves for some seconds

[David198502]

correct
also if you press to increase or decrease and leave it
it still moves for some seconds

thats what i meant...maybe i didnt express it correct.

[gelbevierzehn]

correct
also if you press to increase or decrease and leave it
it still moves for some seconds

+1 !!

That needs to be fixed..

[IvanK]

its good that one can switch between auto and manual pp.
but the manual pp changes way too slow.it needs about 8-10seconds for a whole circle on the gauge and it just keeps changing even if you stopped pushing the relevant button.it turns for a few more seconds until it comes to a standstill.
the automatic prop pitch is pretty bad implemented either i think.at least thats my opinion.i could increase speed way faster with the manual one in the previous beta version.it tends to overrev now.and it reacts too slow to the changing condition.but maybe thats the way it worked in real life i dont know.but the manual prop pitch should just work like it used to in the previous patches please.


Yet to test Manual Prop pitch but Prop Auto is working exceptionally well imo. It keeps up well with IAS/TAS changes. I haven't Overreved/Oversped the engine yet even diving to 750Kmh IAS. Think of it as a Variable datum Constant speed prop. The Required RPM being referenced to the demanded ATA.

EDIT.
Just tested Manual Prop pitch ... working just fine and at the same rate as it previously worked. Nothing wrong here imo. The fact that it keeps moving a little after button release is not a biggy ... just represents a little bit of inertia. imo.

[David198502]

nice for you mate.but my pp is definitely moving way slower.

[CWMV]

Unchanged here...
Very strange.

[David198502]

ok tested again....the strange thing is, that the first few minutes the pp behaves normal like in the previous patches.and stops pretty fast if you stop pushing it.
but after some time, it definitely moves slower, and keeps moving even if you stopped pushing the relevant button.

[David198502]

am i really the only one with this issue?

[IvanK]

I have spent around 3 hours today in the E4 On line. I was swapping between Auto and Manual as the situation required. No issues at all.

In general I run the prop pitch as follows.

Take Off Full fine 12 O clock Manual.
After Take off at around 250Kmh drop it in to AUTO
If climbing at Max ATA leave it in AUTO
If climbing at reduced ATA say 1.25 then you do better at MANUAL with 2300RPM
Combat AUTO
Hi speed Bugouts AUTO initially then once basically going MANUAL and fine tune.
Landing ... Once on Final Manual Full fine .... 12 O'Clock.

When running Super Hi speed say at Low level following a descent in AUTO then intelligent ATA use is required to keep RPM up since RPM is determined by ATA with AUTO engaged.

A bad example is to beat the crap out of Hawkinge :) say at 700KMH+ at low ATA then pull up. AUTO will demand Low RPM (Around 8:30 on the clock) and when you start the pull up and select max ATA it takes a while for the prop to wind up. A Better way is to arrive with High speed and High ATA therfore High RPM so when you start the pull the prop is already pretty fine. In essence Avoid Hi speed low ATA situations in AUTO if you have any intention of subsequently zooming and wanting max power output in the zoom.

AUTO is a great aid but not a Panacea, use both modes to your advantage.

[David198502]

well but for me the issue remains...the manual prop pitch works fine for some few minutes, but after a certain period(i estimate 2-3 minutes) it acts suddenly strangely.the rate of the change is suddenly pretty slow.its approximately only half the speed as the usual rate.and it keeps moving for a pretty long time,even if you stopped pushing it.the clockwise moves on for about half a circle after leaving the button.

i cant believe that its only me with this issue.i tried it on the other bfs, but didnt encounter the problem.
i tried with the E4 in several missions, to ensure that its not a problem connected to a somehow corrupted self made mission but it appears every time....

[MoGas]

Ok, there is something rong for me too on the E4...

Autoprop:

In my case, the autoprop, was reducing RPM as it should, but if I have needed higher RPM, it was not increasing the RPM, that means, I flew around with 1900 RPM with 330Km/h, flat run....!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Manuel prop:

I asigned the button for turning it off in the second flyt ,the automatic, as David is reporting, the manual prop pitch is TOO slow if you change him, dosent matter, UP or DOWN!

Switched right away to the E1, total different behave, as it should!

[David198502]

God thank you its not only me!!!

[David198502]

ok...to support my arguments i uploaded this vid.
i know the recording tool in Cliffs of Dover is bugged and the gauges dont work correctly due to it(it would deserve its own bug report), but i think you can still see the different speed of the clockwise.
furthermore in the second part of the vid, i stopped changing the pitch at exactly 10 o'clock, but the clockwise moves until 11:15.
the vid shows the behaviour of the manual pp.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mBG8nADPLQ

[VO101_Tom]

am i really the only one with this issue?

No.
Yesterday we fly a lot with E-4. Not just me, my friends can confirm these strange behaviors:

- Sometimes the PP sticks on 08:30 hours. I do not know the exact reason, but we will listen.

- Sometimes the manual adjustment will be much slower than it should. One "hour" takes 12 seconds, which is 0.5°/sec value. (instead 1-1.5°!!). (Auto PP speed is ok). This time as far as pressing the PP button, then the propeller is to move more the same amount of time. If you are pressed for 20 "minutes", it will move for 40 "minutes". If you pressed one "hour", then move until two (with half speed of course). Very annoying. I tried to find some kind of rule, but failed. Once visible slowed down when turned off the radiator automation too. But when the track started again, I could not repeat it. Appears to be random, but I'll watch this one too.

Suddenly, now that's it. I asked the others to who have experienced a strange work, describe exactly why.

[Majo]

Confirmed here too.

But...
I read somewhere that the rate of mechanical failure at the first stages of its operational introduction was quite high.
Maybe it was beta too...;)
This had to do much with the management of the throttle, if I remember correctly.
In the same contest, pilots who went through the E-1 & E-3 training always wanted to have the manual prop pith control option available while the new
pilots who only knew the auto rarely used the manual option.

Could be in Spitfire on my tail de Steinhilper.

[zwiebacksaege]

No.
Yesterday we fly a lot with E-4. Not just me, my friends can confirm these strange behaviors:

- Sometimes the PP sticks on 08:30 hours. I do not know the exact reason, but we will listen.

- Sometimes the manual adjustment will be much slower than it should. One "hour" takes 12 seconds, which is 0.5°/sec value. (instead 1-1.5°!!). (Auto PP speed is ok). This time as far as pressing the PP button, then the propeller is to move more the same amount of time. If you are pressed for 20 "minutes", it will move for 40 "minutes". If you pressed one "hour", then move until two (with half speed of course). Very annoying. I tried to find some kind of rule, but failed. Once visible slowed down when turned off the radiator automation too. But when the track started again, I could not repeat it. Appears to be random, but I'll watch this one too.

Suddenly, now that's it. I asked the others to who have experienced a strange work, describe exactly why.

could it be, that just the gauge is not quick enough for the PP change?
as you decribed it moves in 12s one complete round which is to lazy but it moves twice the time you press the button. So it could be that the "button-press-time" for one hour remained same but the gauge is not responding fast enough. Or is the rpm changing after releasing the button as well?

[David198502]

according to my video, the rpm change as well after one released the button.

[VO101_Tom]

could it be, that just the gauge is not quick enough for the PP change?
as you decribed it moves in 12s one complete round which is to lazy but it moves twice the time you press the button. So it could be that the "button-press-time" for one hour remained same but the gauge is not responding fast enough. Or is the rpm changing after releasing the button as well?

Good question, but no. It seems, that the instrument show a valid value. The solution (for the correct PP angle and rpm), if you pressed the button half time, as it should (but the movement will still be slow).

[IvanK]

Just went and tested this issue specifically. Attempting to simulate exactly what David198502 did in his video. I agree David198502 The E4 Prop pitch is moving in both AUTO and MANUAL at exactly half the rate that it is moving in the E1 and E3. In my case I don't get any sudden slow down its just to slow all the time. ... looks to me like the old too slow prop pitch code from 2 Betas ago

The E4 in both AUTO and MANUAL is taking 12 seconds for 1 hour of Clock indicator.
The E3 and E1 takes exactly 6 seconds for 1 hour of Clock indicator.

As to the Pitch continuing to move after release of the button. This occurrs in the E1 and E3 as well and I think simulates a certain amount of inertia. In the case of the E4 this is worse as I think its being over emphasised by the half rate prop pitch chahnge.

DEVS have been informed directly.

As to the problem with it getting Stuck at 8:30 (full coarse position) I cannot replicate that. At 730KMH At low level at IDLE ATA the Pitch indicator is showing FULL COARSE at the 8:30 position. The instant I select Higher ATA the Prop starts fining up at the slow rate.

Since demanded ATA determines RPM and Prop pitch being at High Speed Low ATA is not a good place to be if you intend to zoom. If that is the plan then you need to get the ATA and therefore RPM up before you start the zoom.

[CWMV]

Just went and tested this issue specifically. Attempting to simulate exactly what David198502 did in his video. I agree David198502 The E4 Prop pitch is moving in both AUTO and MANUAL at exactly half the rate that it is moving in the E1 and E3. In my case I don't get any sudden slow down its just to slow all the time. ... looks to me like the old too slow prop pitch code from 2 Betas ago

The E4 in both AUTO and MANUAL is taking 12 seconds for 1 hour of Clock indicator.
The E3 and E1 takes exactly 6 seconds for 1 hour of Clock indicator.

As to the Pitch continuing to move after release of the button. This occurrs in the E1 and E3 as well and I think simulates a certain amount of inertia. In the case of the E4 this is worse as I think its being over emphasised by the half rate prop pitch chahnge.

DEVS have been informed directly.

As to the problem with it getting Stuck at 8:30 (full coarse position) I cannot replicate that. At 730KMH At low level at IDLE ATA the Pitch indicator is showing FULL COARSE at the 8:30 position. The instant I select Higher ATA the Prop starts fining up at the slow rate.

Since demanded ATA determines RPM and Prop pitch being at High Speed Low ATA is not a good place to be if you intend to zoom. If that is the plan then you need to get the ATA and therefore RPM up before you start the zoom.

Good to hear.
have you taken them to task over the auto radiators? :grin:

[IvanK]

YES indeed :)

[CWMV]

You rule!

[41Sqn_Stormcrow]

BTW shouldn't it be 4s for one hour? I remember that in reality the speed was 15min/sec. Now the speed is 10min/s if it really takes 6secs for the full hour. So still too slow by 33%.

[David198502]

BTW shouldn't it be 4s for one hour? I remember that in reality the speed was 15min/sec. Now the speed is 10min/s if it really takes 6secs for the full hour. So still too slow by 33%.

yes...we had that discussion already when the pp of the E3 and E1 suddenly got buggy after a patch.many members stated that it should take 4seconds/hour.after some days we got a hotfix for that, and the discussion ended.
i never used a stopwatch to measure the exact time the gauge needs for a whole circle, but i counted the seconds by myself and always considered it for too long.6 secs seem to be accurate, which is too slow!....so the devs should not only fix the pp of the E4, but of all the messerschmitts.

[IvanK]

Exactly that has been suggested directly to the devs :) The aim to get 1.5Deg sec prop pitch movement, i.e. 4 seconds for one hour clock movement.

[41Sqn_Stormcrow]

Exactly that has been suggested directly to the devs :) The aim to get 1.5Deg sec prop pitch movement, i.e. 4 seconds for one hour clock movement.

Actually we need 45deg/sec speed in order to have 360deg in 4sec (45deg = 15 min on the dial)

[VO101_Tom]

As to the problem with it getting Stuck at 8:30 (full coarse position) I cannot replicate that. At 730KMH At low level at IDLE ATA the Pitch indicator is showing FULL COARSE at the 8:30 position. The instant I select Higher ATA the Prop starts fining up at the slow rate.

Hi.
I have found it yesterday, but partly caused by user error. If you pressed any PP button, while you switch from manual to auto, the program notes it. When you switch back to manual, the The program detects that the button is still pressed. If you are not paying attention, then change up or down by itself in manual mode.

[VO101_Tom]

BTW shouldn't it be 4s for one hour? I remember that in reality the speed was 15min/sec. Now the speed is 10min/s if it really takes 6secs for the full hour. So still too slow by 33%.

The motor (prop pitch adjustment VDM elektromotor) speed is changed continuously, depending on the engine rpm. The theoretical maximum of 1.5°. While not go below 1°, its not problem. But yes, the maximum speed should be 4sec.

[TomcatViP]

I think he is referring to angles as seen on the clock ;)

[IvanK]

Actually we need 45deg/sec speed in order to have 360deg in 4sec (45deg = 15 min on the dial)


We are referring to Prop Blade angle rate of change not Clock face needle rate of change :)

[NedLynch]

I am no expert in how the manual prop pitch rate was in rl in an E4.

But nonetheless I wanted to confirm the problem and support the desire for a fix :grin:

[41Sqn_Stormcrow]

I have the same issue. When switching off auto prop pitch I am back to the old ultra slow prop pitch speed.

Needs to be fixed.

Also noticed that sometimes auto proppitch stops working. It won't rev up any longer and I have to switch to manual in order to increase rpm again.

[zanzark]

Agree, auto prop pitch is terrible, and you get a huge disadvantage is some planes.

[IvanK]

Agree, auto prop pitch is terrible, and you get a huge disadvantage is some planes.


Auto prop pitch is NOT terrible. Its got a few issues namely Pich rate change. Once thats fixed I think you might actually like it. Intelligent use of AUTO frees you up quite considerably. Their is a time to use AUTO and a time to use MANUAL.