Why does luthier even bother?

[ACE-OF-ACES]

I have to wonder what part of 'beta' do these people not understand?

I mean the download clearly says 'beta' in the title.. right?

So I don't think they can say they didn't realize it is a 'beta' patch.. But than again their are people in their 30s trying to sue cigarette companies claiming they didn't realize smoking was bad.. Even though cigarette packages have had warning labels for over 30 years.. So I guess I am not surprised that a few people try to..

I guess I just never realized there were 'so many' of these 'few' types of people.

Here luthier gives us a beta patch to 'test'.. Yet these people act shocked that there is a bug in a beta patch? To the point that some are having a total break down hissy fit and saying they give up..

@ luthier.. I know you meant well..

And I know you thought you might be able to receive some useful feedback by releasing this beta patch to the masses.. The idea being more people beta testings means you will be able to find and fix bugs sooner..

And I know you even went as far as to say in your first post, i.e.

luthier
We are however concerned about stability and performance on various hardware. If you still experience reduced FPS, we want to know your system specs, including graphic driver version and in-game graphic settings.

Yet they act as if you said nothing at all.. based on the majority of the responses thus far..

I think you might be better off sticking to the way you have done it in the past.. Just release the beta patch to your smaller select group of testers..

Oh sure that means it will take longer to find bugs because there are less people beta testing..

But when you consider that 'most' of the 'masses' are not even willing to make use of a work around (turn effects to low) to continue beta testing..

You got to ask yourself is it worth the trouble?

Clearly 'most' of the 'masses' here have no idea of what beta means and the purpose behind releasing a beta patch

[capt vertigo]

Sad isn't it..

+1

[NedLynch]

Agreed, going to fly without effects for the time being since I discovered something else that is rather important to me but have to confirm that it really works.
It seems no more auto take off as flight leader, only tried one mission, but with manual take off the flight recognized me and followed instead of flying along the waypoints.

To me the devs are on the right track and the effects thing will not stay like this, it'll be fixed.

[Vengeanze]

Releasing a beta that locks the game at first explosion????!!!?!?! :o
How does that give you confidence in their competence?
How could it slip through?
If they knew about it then perhaps communicate that to us - their unpaid beta testers.

[CWMV]

After the last patch I don't doubt their competence, and I was a huge critic before.

These guys know what they are doing, and it sucks that the game isn't where by all rights it should be, but the development is happening, and in the meantime the game is EXTREMELY enjoyable!

Im happy to wait, but would be even happier if we got an E-7 and Afrika maps in the next patch lol.

[NedLynch]

Sorry, manual take off with the flight following only works in an escort mission where your "waypoint" are the bombers. In a "normal" fly there and shoot everything down mission they still just follow the waypoints, so autopilot take off, dang it.

[Vengeanze]

Ok, perhaps it's not about their competence as programmers but more about the organization, how they work and set priority. About the allocated resources and how they use them.
Maybe they knew about the explosion bug but wanted us to test other stuff.
Maybe it's a culture thing; "some duct tape will fix it".
I don't know cause I haven't got any information(wish I could say "not enough info").

Either way I've lost confidence that they have the ability to get this game off the ground any time soon.

Hopefully I'll be back after the next official patch praising their skills. Experience says otherwise. :-(
I'm not angry, I'm sad.

[NedLynch]

Releasing a beta that locks the game at first explosion????!!!?!?! :o
How does that give you confidence in their competence?
How could it slip through?
If they knew about it then perhaps communicate that to us - their unpaid beta testers.

They did communicate that to us, maybe you want to read the sticky for this beta patch again.
It is the purpose of a beta patch, which is by it's definition unfinished and experimental, to see how it runs and apart from the effects bug it runs just fine. So they are going to iron this out and release a stable retail patch.

In the meantime roll back to a previous version or turn the effects off.

We could only be upset if this had been the retail patch.

[NedLynch]

Oh and Ace,
why does Luthier bother?
I said it when I was brand new to the forum and gave it as one reason why, despite all the negativity, I bought the game......because I believe he and the dev team care.
I bought the sim because I wanted to support them taking a concious risk and so far it has payed off for me with many hours of flying fun.
They did not have the start they should have had, but they are working on it, they love what they are doing and they will bring this sim to the state that they as well want it to be in.

[Hunden]

Ok, perhaps it's not about their competence as programmers but more about the organization, how they work and set priority. About the allocated resources and how they use them.
Maybe they knew about the explosion bug but wanted us to test other stuff.
Maybe it's a culture thing; "some duct tape will fix it".
I don't know cause I haven't got any information(wish I could say "not enough info").

Either way I've lost confidence that they have the ability to get this game off the ground any time soon.

Hopefully I'll be back after the next official patch praising their skills. Experience says otherwise. :-(
I'm not angry, I'm sad.

All I hear from you before beta patch release is where's the patch, where's the patch like a little girl asking for her cabbage patch........... well here it is so stop bitching you turd herder.

[Vengeanze]

They did communicate that to us, maybe you want to read the sticky for this beta patch again.
It is the purpose of a beta patch, which is by it's definition unfinished and experimental, to see how it runs and apart from the effects bug it runs just fine. So they are going to iron this out and release a stable retail patch.

In the meantime roll back to a previous version or turn the effects off.

We could only be upset if this had been the retail patch.

It's the tendency over time. Fix one, introduce two new.
If such an obvious thing as the explosion bug is in the beta (you know there are something called alpha right?) then that is for me a clear indication that something's wrong in the development chain.

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

I have to wonder what part of 'beta' do these people not understand?

I mean the download clearly says 'beta' in the title.. right?

So I don't think they can say they didn't realize it is a 'beta' patch.. But than again their are people in their 30s trying to sue cigarette companies claiming they didn't realize smoking was bad.. Even though cigarette packages have had warning labels for over 30 years.. So I guess I am not surprised that a few people try to..

I guess I just never realized there were 'so many' of these 'few' types of people.

Here luthier gives us a beta patch to 'test'.. Yet these people act shocked that there is a bug in a beta patch? To the point that some are having a total break down hissy fit and saying they give up..

@ luthier.. I know you meant well..

And I know you thought you might be able to receive some useful feedback by releasing this beta patch to the masses.. The idea being more people beta testings means you will be able to find and fix bugs sooner..

And I know you even went as far as to say in your first post, i.e.



Yet they act as if you said nothing at all.. based on the majority of the responses thus far..

I think you might be better off sticking to the way you have done it in the past.. Just release the beta patch to your smaller select group of testers..

Oh sure that means it will take longer to find bugs because there are less people beta testing..

But when you consider that 'most' of the 'masses' are not even willing to make use of a work around (turn effects to low) to continue beta testing..

You got to ask yourself is it worth the trouble?

Clearly 'most' of the 'masses' here have no idea of what beta means and the purpose behind releasing a beta patch

Maybe the question should be 'why do we even bother'? Of what value is a beta patch in terms of information gathering when it locks up the sim within seconds (not related to explosions) and one has to kill it with Task Manager....generating no crash dump files whatsoever? It is unplayable, with far worse FPS and no I won't turn down one of the few things that make it enjoyable. Whose fault is that? Ours? FYI, we essentially 'agreed' (for 'agreed' read 'were duped') to being Alpha testers when we bought this, not to mention being conned into buying something that bears no resemblance to what CoD actually is. Most here have done their fair share of testing, (and shown quite remarkable patience). That wasn't the deal....if you remember. ;)

Half a year on, still the 'one step forwards, two back' dance. FYI I have made a truckload of bug reports and tried to help, but it feels like trying to help a CRACKHEAD who pockets the money you gave him for food and clothes and returns to the demon glass pipe. :grin:

It's a p*ss take of Biblical proportion and most people have little enough free time to enjoy themselves as it is. I already have a job, don't need need two. CoD at times is work. I am not a 1c employee, and while I will try to help (and certainly have done) within reason, getting things sorted is in fact their job. Capische?

Cheers. :)

[mazex]

I have to wonder what part of 'beta' do these people not understand?

I mean the download clearly says 'beta' in the title.. right?

So I don't think they can say they didn't realize it is a 'beta' patch.. But than again their are people in their 30s trying to sue cigarette companies claiming they didn't realize smoking was bad.. Even though cigarette packages have had warning labels for over 30 years.. So I guess I am not surprised that a few people try to..

I guess I just never realized there were 'so many' of these 'few' types of people.

Here luthier gives us a beta patch to 'test'.. Yet these people act shocked that there is a bug in a beta patch? To the point that some are having a total break down hissy fit and saying they give up..

@ luthier.. I know you meant well..

And I know you thought you might be able to receive some useful feedback by releasing this beta patch to the masses.. The idea being more people beta testings means you will be able to find and fix bugs sooner..

And I know you even went as far as to say in your first post, i.e.



Yet they act as if you said nothing at all.. based on the majority of the responses thus far..

I think you might be better off sticking to the way you have done it in the past.. Just release the beta patch to your smaller select group of testers..

Oh sure that means it will take longer to find bugs because there are less people beta testing..

But when you consider that 'most' of the 'masses' are not even willing to make use of a work around (turn effects to low) to continue beta testing..

You got to ask yourself is it worth the trouble?

Clearly 'most' of the 'masses' here have no idea of what beta means and the purpose behind releasing a beta patch

+ 100



Mazex

[Vengeanze]

Maybe the question should be 'why do we even bother'? Of what value is a beta patch in terms of information gathering when it locks up the sim within seconds (not related to explosions) and one has to kill it with Task Manager....generating no crash dump files whatsoever? It is unplayable, with far worse FPS and no I won't turn down one of the few things that make it enjoyable. Whose fault is that? Ours? FYI, we essentially 'agreed' (for 'agreed' read 'were duped') to being Alpha testers when we bought this, not to mention being conned into buying something that bears no resemblance to what CoD actually is. Most here have done their fair share of testing, (and shown quite remarkable patience). That wasn't the deal....if you remember. ;)

Half a year on, still the 'one step forwards, two back' dance. FYI I have made a truckload of bug reports and tried to help, but it feels like trying to help a CRACKHEAD who pockets the money you gave him for food and clothes and returns to the demon glass pipe. :grin:

It's a p*ss take of Biblical proportion and most people have little enough free time to enjoy themselves as it is. I already have a job, don't need need two. CoD at times is work. I am not a 1c employee, and while I will try to help (and certainly have done) within reason, getting things sorted is in fact their job. Capische?

Cheers. :)

Well put Orville. I've spent more time testing and tweaking this game than actually enjoying it.
It's more than obvious that 1C do not have their own testers and that they rely on us to do their work. I wouldn't mind being a beta tester but alpha? Nah.
I'm not sure I like this new process where the customers/clients are the alpha testers. Make a parallell with buying a car or any other product if you will.

- "Great. Now the turn indicators work but they're inverted (handle down=right indicator and vv). I love the new iPhone gadget you introduced but now the brakes don't work anymore."

I suggest 1C asks the community for beta testers and pick out 300 or so for a closed beta. Then sets up a closed beta server and give the testers a t-shirt and a mug or something and mention them in the "thank you" text in the game.

[Tvrdi]

I have to wonder what part of 'beta' do these people not understand?

I mean the download clearly says 'beta' in the title.. right?

So I don't think they can say they didn't realize it is a 'beta' patch.. But than again their are people in their 30s trying to sue cigarette companies claiming they didn't realize smoking was bad.. Even though cigarette packages have had warning labels for over 30 years.. So I guess I am not surprised that a few people try to..

I guess I just never realized there were 'so many' of these 'few' types of people.

Here luthier gives us a beta patch to 'test'.. Yet these people act shocked that there is a bug in a beta patch? To the point that some are having a total break down hissy fit and saying they give up..

@ luthier.. I know you meant well..

And I know you thought you might be able to receive some useful feedback by releasing this beta patch to the masses.. The idea being more people beta testings means you will be able to find and fix bugs sooner..

And I know you even went as far as to say in your first post, i.e.



Yet they act as if you said nothing at all.. based on the majority of the responses thus far..

I think you might be better off sticking to the way you have done it in the past.. Just release the beta patch to your smaller select group of testers..

Oh sure that means it will take longer to find bugs because there are less people beta testing..

But when you consider that 'most' of the 'masses' are not even willing to make use of a work around (turn effects to low) to continue beta testing..

You got to ask yourself is it worth the trouble?

Clearly 'most' of the 'masses' here have no idea of what beta means and the purpose behind releasing a beta patch

the game was alpha when it was released....

and he bothers because we purchased this half finished product...

[addman]

Well put Orville. I've spent more time testing and tweaking this game than actually enjoying it.
It's more than obvious that 1C do not have their own testers and that they rely on us to do their work. I wouldn't mind being a beta tester but alpha? Nah.
I'm not sure I like this new process where the customers/clients are the alpha testers. Make a parallell with buying a car or any other product if you will.

- "Great. Now the turn indicators work but they're inverted (handle down=right indicator and vv). I love the new iPhone gadget you introduced but now the brakes don't work anymore."

I suggest 1C asks the community for beta testers and pick out 300 or so for a closed beta. Then sets up a closed beta server and give the testers a t-shirt and a mug or something and mention them in the "thank you" text in the game.

Have to agree a bit here. The purpose of a patch (correct me if I'm wrong here), be it alpha, beta or whatever is to improve upon earlier release, not make it worse. Stop saying "luthier don't bother, those ingrates don't understand you like we do" because every single person on this forum appreciate the work they do BUT their work leaves us dumbfounded over and over again. 1 step forward, 2 steps back etc.

Also, try to get it in your heads that Luthier isn't releasing patches, he's trying to finish the game! At this pace this game shouldn't have been released before Q4 2012. Of course we moaned and wanted it released ASAP, who wouldn't have wanted it released?! That wasn't the reason they released it though, it was some other reason, most likely lack of dollar reasons.

Anywho, don't point fingers at the community, we are IL-2! Fact is, we are playing an alpha stage game on it's way into beta.

[Tree_UK]

Really, I think Luthier shouldn't bother anymore, its clear this project is well over the heads of the DEv's, give the game to the community, let the real pro's fix it like they did Il2.

[JG52Krupi]

Really, I think Luthier shouldn't bother anymore, its clear this project is well over the heads of the DEv's, give the game to the community, let the real pro's fix it like they did Il2.

Lmao what a load of bs.... Ahahah.

For me the game is running quite well, obviously you can't test it fully until they remove the crash bug.

Tree stop throwing your toys out of the pram.. It's a beta and luthier specifically stated that some system were experiencing problems... I could agree with your toy throwing if this was a proper patch but this is a BETA we are meant to test it.

That said from what I have seen cockpits over saturated and land is back to being too pastel coloured.

[Flanker35M]

S!

Well, Luthier and his team were given a pile of unfinished code done over 6 years, restarted and whatever. I do not envy his task of finishing this product. So this is what we got for now and until Luthier's team get their work done we just have to test and wait.
But fact still is that the game is far from being even remotely ready. Potential, a step to right direction or a beta patch is NOT same as beign ready.
I already shelved the game and went to other games like World Of Tanks, A-10C Warthog etc. and just check the progress of CoD now and then. Maybe in a year or so it is mature enough to actually be what it should have been from the start. Really, I wish the Cod Would be ready and a shining start, but now..choose yourself.

[Topo]

Those complaining about it without considering that is a beta is likely to be those who have not yet accepted the fact that months ago bought a simulator in an alpha state.
The damage has been done at the release, and now the only possible thing we can do is be positive, cooperative and patient.

just my 0.02 eurocents

[Vengeanze]

We are Alpha testing. I vote for 1C to do closed testings instead. Then we wouldn't have this bullshit every beta(read:alpha).

This community testing must be so ineffective. There's no testing protocol or report syntax and 1C gets a shitload of uncomprehensive mails that they have to sort out to find real reoccuring issues that's not related to other stuff.
Not to mention the zillions beta bug threads that soil the forum.

[JG52Krupi]

Dolt how else will they be able to test the huge number of different setups that we run...!!!

[Ataros]

Hotfix is available.

[ATAG_Dutch]

In answer to the OP,

Because it's his Job.

[Whiski]

Gentlemen, even though a beta was released with a "huge" bug, and now a hot fix in place to remedy said bug. We are moving forward and that is what matters. The speed at which the hot fix was released shows that the cause was minor and the repair quick.

It could be much worse, like some games in the past that were released and left as they were, bugs and all with no further development.

I thank the developers for their continued work in this project and I for one will test 100 more betas (bugs and all) to reach a solid and complete game.

We expect their continued support for this game so why should they expect less from us? Yes, I know we paid for the game, that is all the more reason for us to give what we can and give positive support. I can guarantee, people are much more responsive to constructive input than negative reaction.

The patch works fine for me since hot fix, love the sound, love the colors and I do find it running smoother with very little stutter...I have not flown the new beta online for testing yet.

Cheers Mates, S!

Whiskey

[ACE-OF-ACES]

@ NedLynch.. @ capt vertigo.. @ mazex.. @ CWMV... @ Flanker35M.. @ Topo.. @ Whiski

Thank you guys for the feedback and letting me know that there are some reasonable people in this forum! People with a realistic view of the world..

You have restored some of my confidence that there are some 'adults' mixed in with the 'masses' S!

@ Vengeanzw.. @ RCAF_FB_Orville.. @ Tvrdi.. @ Tree_UK.. @ Dutch 851

None of your post were worth quoting.. Best to treat them like I would treat a kid in a store who pointing at something on the shelf with his/her eyes full of tears and screaming 'I want I want I want'

Basically ignore them and keep walking.

But I do want to thank you for proving just how spot on my original post is!

I do have to give a special shout out to addman.. Though his post was not as temper tantrum filled as the ones above..

I want to quote something he said that proves that you and yours have no concept of what the word beta means, i.e.

The purpose of a patch (correct me if I'm wrong here), be it alpha, beta or whatever is to improve upon earlier release, not make it worse.

As I said.. no idea what 'beta' means in that he clearly has 'patch' confused with 'beta patch' and 'beta testing'

[Tvrdi]

@ NedLynch.. @ capt vertigo.. @ mazex.. @ CWMV... @ Flanker35M.. @ Topo.. @ Whiski

Thank you guys for the feedback and letting me know that there are some reasonable people in this forum! People with a realistic view of the world..

You have restored some of my confidence that there are some 'adults' mixed in with the 'masses' S!

@ Vengeanzw.. @ RCAF_FB_Orville.. @ Tvrdi.. @ Tree_UK.. @ Dutch 851

None of your post were worth quoting.. Best to treat them like I would treat a kid in a store who pointing at something on the shelf with his/her eyes full of tears and screaming 'I want I want I want'

Basically ignore them and keep walking.

But I do want to thank you for proving just how spot on my original post is!

I do have to give a special shout out to addman.. Though his post was not as temper tantrum filled as the ones above..

I want to quote something he said that proves that you and yours have no concept of what the word beta means, i.e.



As I said.. no idea what 'beta' means in that he clearly has 'patch' confused with 'beta patch' and 'beta testing'

Your talking about apples and we are talking about oranges. Your lost dude in your defender of the crown crusade. I never whined. Just said the truth. Btw Im enjoying this game now although there still many bugs and a room for optimisation (with pretty strong machine I still need to tone down some settings to have a decent performance).
cheers

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Let me guess.. your a smoker too?

[Tvrdi]

Let me guess.. your a smoker too?

whataver makes you happy in your "righteous rant"

[ACE-OF-ACES]

I see I have upset you with something I said..

As if I struck a nerve..

Yet your reply seems to have more behind it than just what I said?

As if you feel kind of silly for your inital rant in light of the hot fix being provided just hours later to fix the thing you were whinning about

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

I see I have upset you with something I said..

As if I struck a nerve..

Yet your reply seems to have more behind it than just what I said?

As if you feel kind of silly for your inital rant in light of the hot fix being provided just hours later to fix the thing you were whinning about

:grin:

Just the facts, M'am. If they punched you in the chops you'd probably thank them for it and say, 'please, more, harder!' :grin:

No one is angry, hence the proliferation of smilies in the post. Long past that, what precisely in the post was not true at the time of writing? Exactly. Thanks for making the game not crash anymore pal, wooooot! You're my hero! :grin:

PJ Barnum- 'A sucker born every minute'. :grin:

Carry on though, you're a good laugh. :grin:

[ACE-OF-ACES]

I see I have upset you with something I said..

As if I struck a nerve..

Yet your reply seems to have more behind it than just what I said?

As if you feel kind of silly for your inital rant in light of the hot fix being provided just hours later to fix the thing you were whinning about

[LoBiSoMeM]

I see I have upset you with something I said..

As if I struck a nerve..

Yet your reply seems to have more behind it than just what I said?

As if you feel kind of silly for your inital rant in light of the hot fix being provided just hours later to fix the thing you were whinning about

The hotfix was provided fast because TreeUK and other naysayers do the job: complaint about everything. They spot the probblem ASAP!

I don't see any problem at all in beta testing here: we have GREAT human material to test all sort of bugs! Some walk with hands full of stones to throw at first sight of bugs!

I'm not the best guy to do that: i look at the "bright side of life", the naysayers testers not! They do a great job!

They don't need to be "polite", they need to spot bugs!

[ACE-OF-ACES]

LoL

[Tvrdi]

I see I have upset you with something I said..

As if I struck a nerve..

Yet your reply seems to have more behind it than just what I said?

As if you feel kind of silly for your inital rant in light of the hot fix being provided just hours later to fix the thing you were whinning about

ROFL I never whined about that bug...its in beta isnt it? So obviously was to be fixed soon...I WAS unhappy (at least) with alpha stage of the RELEASED game (uplayable for most of us at that time) which is now in beta stage...so we are progressing...you just came late to the party and you have a gun...and you need to "kill" someone..

[ACE-OF-ACES]

whataver makes you happy in your "back peddling rant"

[Flanker35M]

S!

Testing a beta is more than throwing insults or using a less friendly tone. I have done testing on some games from IL-2 to Ground Control series and so forth. The devs appreciated bugs that were explained in detail and how to reproduce them. Add to this the system settings etc. and you had to write a quite comprehensive post/mail. That is what we should do here, like the the status of CoD or not. I bet the message goes to Luthier without excessive raging or whining..or whatever you want to call it.

My curiosity rose so I am currently installing CoD from scratch to see what happens with the rig I have in my signature. If not satisfactory or finding something then a report and uninstall for another wait. I am very busy even without CoD ;)

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Agreed 100%

[Tvrdi]

tsting and reporting bugs....this is what im doin...(btw I was also a beta tester in various sims including ROF)..but Im also vocal on forum and have the right to do so.... I was the one repossible for the fix of one of the biggest bugs in original IL2. And who is Ace of aces? He is our freshman who just recently registered just to act as "hypnotised die hard fan"....this is theatre thats for sure

[ACE-OF-ACES]

whataver makes you happy in your "back peddling rant"

[Tvrdi]

whataver makes you happy in your "back peddling rant"

take a pill....gbye

[ACE-OF-ACES]

or smoke a cig?

[Flanker35M]

S!

I've seen AoA around for a while in several forums so not a so new guy to IL-2 series I bet ;) But anyways..I think all agree that we could focus more on helping Luthier and his team by providing well compiled information what does not work or could use an improvement rather than insulting each other at every turn and turn threads to a flame fest. After all we ALL want that CoD would be THE sim for years to come as IL-2 was and still is. My .02€..over and out to test.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

I've seen AoA around for a while in several forums so not a so new guy to IL-2 series I bet ;)
Bet! :)

[BadAim]

What a freaking zoo. I'm sure there is some useful information somewhere in this forum, I just can't find it for all of the pissing and moaning, not the least of which is all the pissing and moaning about the pissing and moaning, then everyone gets there feelings hurt and have to argue about that endlessly. C'mon people, act like adults for five minutes.

We're trying to help a developer fix a mess that was not caused my him here. Otherwise there is no reason to download a beta patch to begin with, much less complain about it.

As for the state of the game on release, that is old, old news. I for one am sick of hearing about it already, we know all about it. Can we just stop burying all of the useful info with sniveling?

I'll never get that two minutes back.......

[ATAG_Snapper]

What a freaking zoo. I'm sure there is some useful information somewhere in this forum, I just can't find it for all of the pissing and moaning, not the least of which is all the pissing and moaning about the pissing and moaning, then everyone gets there feelings hurt and have to argue about that endlessly. C'mon people, act like adults for five minutes.

We're trying to help a developer fix a mess that was not caused my him here. Otherwise there is no reason to download a beta patch to begin with, much less complain about it.

As for the state of the game on release, that is old, old news. I for one am sick of hearing about it already, we know all about it. Can we just stop burying all of the useful info with sniveling?

I'll never get that two minutes back.......

+1

Last night I emailed Luthier (per his request to all of us) a zipped .cpp file re two PC crashes I experienced with this latest beta, along with my system specs and a description of what I was doing in CoD when the crashes occurred. I'm sure many others did the same. This a.m. we were greeted with a Hotfix patch and I like to think in some way our contributions helped the devs with this quick fix.

And you're right. I've been waiting for Storm of War/Cliffs of Dover as long as anyone. I certainly feel the frustration of having a long-awaited sim released in a broken, unfinished state. But we all want it fixed and for that to happen cooler heads must prevail. Egos and hurt feelings must be set aside and, as a sim community, help the devs in the most effective way possible: use the vast range of our PC machines to run the beta and retail patches to report, in useful detail, what works and what doesn't.

For those who understandably feel that their precious $50 was taken under false pretenses -- you're right; it sucks! But as in life itself, if you want "fair" then go see your mama. Put the sim away and wait for the ultimate fix. But stop clogging these beta threads with whining and snide backbiting. To achieve the goal of a fixed Cliffs of Dover we need forum members who will either take the lead or follow a procedure, but at least get the he11 out of the way.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

For those who understandably feel that their precious $50 was taken under false pretenses -- you're right; it sucks! But as in life itself, if you want "fair" then go see your mama.
Bingo!

[ATAG_Snapper]

Bingo!

It was either that, or "Suck it up, Muffin!" LOL

(and, yeah, I'm putting on my flame-retardant suit.......)

[Tree_UK]

Credit where its due, Luthier as managed to get the ACE OF ACES licking his butt, which intrests me more than the game at the moment.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Thanks Tree..

That 5th grade play ground butt licking responce not only confirmed my inital post.. but made me feel young again.. In that I have not heard such banter since the 5th grade! S!

[Tree_UK]

Thanks Tree..

That 5th grade play ground butt licking responce not only confirmed my inital post.. but made me feel young again.. In that I have not heard such banter since the 5th grade! S!

Well the name calling started from your end of the playground, no point wasting my inteligence on a child.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

A year ago then? :grin:
Oh god I wish!

[Catseye]

I suggest 1C asks the community for beta testers and pick out 300 or so for a closed beta. Then sets up a closed beta server and give the testers a t-shirt and a mug or something and mention them in the "thank you" text in the game.

This happened to me in the past when I was part of the outside Beta team for Falcon 4 and also for Flanker. Got a great T-shirt from the Flanker Guys and credit in the published book.

[Catseye]

+1

Last night I emailed Luthier (per his request to all of us) a zipped .cpp file re two PC crashes I experienced with this latest beta, along with my system specs and a description of what I was doing in CoD when the crashes occurred. I'm sure many others did the same. This a.m. we were greeted with a Hotfix patch and I like to think in some way our contributions helped the devs with this quick fix.



Same here. Followed the instructions for reporting on events and found a pleasant surprise fixing the crashes this morning. Well done guys!

Anything else is a pedantic rant. As AoA said, if you don't know how to Beta test or at least read the instructions for reporting - DON'T DOWNLOAD THE BETA! Save the rest of us from listening to you sitting on the floor, sucking your thumb, wailing and kicking your heels on the tiles. It's so tiring. . . . . .

[Tavingon]

Sure is fun testing the beta, Id rather be doing this and helping make suggestions than be sat in the dark waiting for the full release

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Sure is fun testing the beta, Id rather be doing this and helping make suggestions than be sat in the dark waiting for the full releaseThat is the approach everyone should have when downloading any software with the word 'beta' in it!

These 'others' that expect perfection from a 'beta' would do themselves well to avoid anything that has the word 'beta' in it what with the hissy fits temper tantrums they evoke..

Just not healthy for them to get so bug eyed about it.. That and it would save the rest of us from having to sift threw all their rants when looking for useful feedback on the topic

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

Wow Ace (and gang)......thats a sizzling 12lb 'Irony Steak' with House special 'Silly Sauce' right there. Spamming a forum 'Whining' about 'Whiners' (AKA people expressing an opinion contrary to their own).........Delicious. :grin: With all the 'name calling' and indignant ire of course coming from that end. Give it a rest, peeps. :grin:

People are always going to have views which from time to time will be different from your own *yep, its crazy, I know lol.* That is the whole point of a forum......unless I'm mistaken. Let it be.

Christ. Never mind. :)

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Wow Ace (and gang)......thats a sizzling 12lb 'Irony Steak' with House special 'Silly Sauce' right there. Spamming a forum 'Whining' about 'Whiners' (AKA people expressing an opinion contrary to their own).........Delicious. :grin: With all the 'name calling' and indignant ire of course coming from that end. Give it a rest, peeps. :grin:

People are always going to have views which from time to time will be different from your own *yep, its crazy, I know lol.* That is the whole point of a forum......unless I'm mistaken. Let it be.

Christ. Never mind. :)
Sorry, but you are a NO GO at this station with your cute.. but weak attempt to change the subject/history of this thread

This thread is not a whine about whiners or different opinions (your spin)

This thread is about people, like you, who don't understand what 'beta' means (my point)

Now, I can understand 'why' you would 'try' to change the subject/history of this thread.. what with your silly initial and follow up posts

But, in attempting to do so you only make you and yours look even more silly..

If that is possible?

So, gold star for effort!

But no sale

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

Sorry, but you are a NO GO at this station with your cute.. but weak attempt to change the subject/history of this thread

This thread is not a whine about whiners or different opinions (your spin)

This thread is about people, like you, who don't understand what 'beta' means (my point)

Now, I can understand 'why' you would 'try' to change the subject/history of this thread.. what with your silly initial and follow up posts

But, in attempting to do so you only make you and yours look even more silly..

If that is possible?

So, gold star for effort!

But no sale

Ace, I've done more 'beta' testing and found more bugs on many forums than you've probably had hot dinners sunshine, going waaaaaay back and involving any sim you care to mention.

Nowhere did anyone say 'beta should be perfect' (ridiculous) your words, no one else's. I said they should be testable. Self evidently, if not this obviously defeats the point. Again for posterity, nothing I wrote was untrue at the time of writing, suck it down. Since I've been PM'd no less than 4 times by 4 different people (none of whom are on this 'whine' thread you started) warning me not to bother with you (for reasons I won't divulge) I think I'll leave it there. The only person looking daft here is you. You really are a bore, and obviously spoiling for an argument. Trololol. Waste of time, like your pointless thread. :)

The steak was great BTW, could have done with more of your patented silly sauce though. Good stuff. :grin:

Ciao.

[Tvrdi]

That is the approach everyone should have when downloading any software with the word 'beta' in it!
These 'others' that expect perfection from a 'beta' would do themselves well to avoid anything that has the word 'beta' in it what with the hissy fits temper tantrums they evoke..


but the game was released in alpha stage...and sold as final product.....you dont have arguments...

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Ace, I've done more 'beta' testing and found more bugs on many forums than you've probably had hot dinners sunshine, going waaaaaay back and involving any sim you care to mention.
Based on your initial hissy fit reply it casts doubt on your beta testing experience.. In that typically people with beta testing experience have MORE understanding of what goes into a 'it', NOT LESS! Which your initial post proved you have very little understanding of what goes into 'it'

For example that initial post of your started off with


Maybe the question should be 'why do we even bother'?

And the rest of that post only goes on, in summary, with your whining about feeling like an 'alpha' tester and helping a 'crack head' and referring to it all as a p*ss take of biblical proportions

Does that reply sound like someone with a wealth of knowledge and experience in beta testing?

I think most would agree it does not

SAVVY?

Or, put in your words, from that 1st post of yours

Capische?

Nowhere did anyone say 'beta should be perfect' (ridiculous) your words, no one else's. I said they should be testable. Self evidently, if not this obviously defeats the point.
It was and is testable.. Only thing you had to do was put a little effort into reading the posts by others that found a work around so they could continue to keep testing.. You know the things good beta testers do.

Again for posterity, nothing I wrote was untrue at the time of writing, suck it down.
Never said it was un-true! Just pointed out that complaining about find a bug in a beta patch is like

Complaining about getting wet after jumping into a pool
Complaining about getting burnt after running into a burning building
Complaining about getting sun burnt after laying on the beach all day
Complaining about getting shot after pointing a gun at your head and pulling the trigger
Complaining about getting laid after ... mmmmm on 2nd thought clearly that one does not apply to you

As in all these results should be 'expected' from these actions

Which is what you did in your initial hissy fit tantrum filled post

Since I've been PM'd no less than 4 times by 4 different people (none of whom are on this 'whine' thread you started) warning me not to bother with you (for reasons I won't divulge) I think I'll leave it there.
Promise?

The only person looking daft here is you. You really are a bore, and obviously spoiling for an argument. Trololol. Waste of time, like your pointless thread. :)
This means so much to me from the guy who said beta testing CoD is equivalent to helping a crack head

The steak was great BTW, could have done with more of your patented silly sauce though. Good stuff. :grin:

Ciao.
Ok.. ok.. ok. I give you two gold stars

Feel better now?

[ACE-OF-ACES]

but the game was released in alpha stage...and sold as final product.....you don't have arguments...
Too funny.. you don't even know what beta means and now your trying to claim that your the one that determines what is beta and what is alpha?

Please

[Sailor Malan]

Baaaaaaaaaa

[Chivas]

Personally I'm very happy they sold me an "alpha" with the prospect of the sim being finished rather than cancelling the project. If they told us it was an "alpha" or "beta" there wouldn't have been enough copies sold to finance further work.

The statement that the community fixing the devs shody work is a joke as we would have nothing to fix if it weren't for the developers doing most of the work. I suppose we could wait for the community to build a far superior product from scratch, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. Although the developers of the IL-2 series were community members who thought they could build a superior product to what was on the market and succeeded. Yet the so called community still turns on them with a vengence.

[Rjel]

Personally I'm very happy they sold me an "alpha" with the prospect of the sim being finished rather than cancelling the project. If they told us it was an "alpha" or "beta" there wouldn't have been enough copies sold to finance further work.


I do think those types of business practices are deceptive to say the least, whatever the product might be. While it might accomplish the short term goal of continued development, it might well sacrifice long term repeat sales. Too many feel burned by this release to the point that they may or may not be back. Hopefully those of us who stick will be sufficient enough in numbers to ensure more releases. I would think Luthier knows that well enough to avoid any more public relation disasters.

[Chivas]

I do think those types of business practices are deceptive to say the least, whatever the product might be. While it might accomplish the short term goal of continued development, it might well sacrifice long term repeat sales. Too many feel burned by this release to the point that they may or may not be back. Hopefully those of us who stick will be sufficient enough in numbers to ensure more releases. I would think Luthier knows that well enough to avoid any more public relation disasters.

The early release accomplished the "long term goal", now we have a strong possibility of the series continuing for years. If it wasn't released as is, it was finito, done, dead, there was no more development funds available to finish the project. Unless you believe they released the sim unfinished just to piss everyone off.

Further public relation disasters should be avoided now that the game engine is basically working, and you only need to flesh out the new theaters. BUT it will depend on how long it takes to fix the bugs and add missing features, before they can work full tilt on the new theaters. That said new features can still be added to COD as they release the new theaters, the same way they developed the original IL-2 series.

[Rjel]

Unless you believe they released the sim unfinished just to piss everyone off.


Not what I said. I said what they did was deceptive. As in they knowingly lied to those of us who supported them for years that CoD was running well on a less than state of the art computer. If you choose not to remember those pre-release statements that's fine. For me, I prefer to take a more balanced approach. I'm still hoping CoD lives up to it's potential while keeping in mind what was claimed and soon proven to be BS. I'll be supportive, not blind.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

I do think those types of business practices are deceptive to say the least, whatever the product might be.
What type of business practices?

Keep in mind that Chivas, as sensible and as reasonable and as adult of a view he has on this, which I and many others share

Does not work for 1C, nor does he have any proof that 1C intentionally released a 'alpha' let alone 'beta' product.

Which is not to say they didn't, only that I know of no contractual agreements that 1C failed to provide to us the users. Put another way, what advertisement on the package or advertisement at the steam download did CoD not provide?

I know we were 'told' (not to be confused with promised) of many things over the past 6 years of CoD development that were 'intended' to be in the initial release, but didn't end up in the initial release.. But can 'anyone' point to anything advertised on the box or at the STEAM download that turned out not to be in the game?

Note I am honestly asking here!

And I am talking real things, not advertisements like 'best flight model' or best 'AI' which is subjective and thus debatable.

I am talking about real things (read false advertisement) like say, 20 flyable aircraft when in fact only 18 are flyable. Things like that!

Ill bet there are none, because if there were, it would be a simple mater for these poor but hurt smacktards to get their money back! And since they are still here instead of spending their money on some other game like Quake, I think we all (read adults) can agree that buggie does not equate false advertisement

[Rjel]

What type of business practices?

... I think we all (read adults) can agree that buggie does not equate false advertisement

As Chivas said, if they had told people the game wasn't working at release (some might say broken), would people have purchased it? Instead it seems that misinformation was put out that the game was running on a less than top of the line computer just before CoD's initial release to generate sales I would assume. There was genuine excitement about that on the UBI forum only to be ruined by less than glowing user reports. I find that deceptive. I said nothing about false advertising. I understand what buggy is. I understand all features previously mentioned over CoDs development lifetime might not make the initial release. What I don't understand is claiming boldly that a product works acceptably well when clearly it didn't. That is deception, if not an outright lie. More than that it was and is disappointing considering the relationship we previously had with the Il2 team.

[LoBiSoMeM]

Too much talking. I love this "alpha", "beta", "totally porked sim" since day one, and now...

Ch2bf-QOVCI

EVEN MORE!

[Fliegenpilz]

Too much talking. I love this "alpha", "beta", "totally porked sim" since day one, and now...

Ch2bf-QOVCI

EVEN MORE!

My words... +1 :D

[Momod]

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoBiSoMeM View Post
Too much talking. I love this "alpha", "beta", "totally porked sim" since day one, and now...

Ch2bf-QOVCI

EVEN MORE!
My words... +1

Me Too.
My glass is half full and filling nicely at least now we have a decent server (Big thanks to the ATAG team) North Africa and Barbarossa or even Circus Planeset (Channel 41-42) would be a welcome addition.

[ATAG_Snapper]

Too much talking. I love this "alpha", "beta", "totally porked sim" since day one, and now...

Ch2bf-QOVCI

EVEN MORE!

That video is worth a thousand words!!!!!

[nearmiss]

Mostof us enjoy receiving the patches. It is a good reassurance things are happening, and hopefully improving.

I look at the names of contributors to this thread. It's a fact, most of you have been vehement complainers at various times. Timely information feeds the lions is my take on it.

So yeah, bring on beta and patches I'm please to DL every one of them and give them a go.

Happy Sunday to all.

[ATAG_Snapper]

Mostof us enjoy receiving the patches. It is a good reassurance things are happening, and hopefully improving.

I look at the names of contributors to this thread. It's a fact, most of you have been vehement complainers at various times. Timely information feeds the lions is my take on it.

So yeah, bring on beta and patches I'm please to DL every one of them and give them a go.

Happy Sunday to all.

+1

Happy Sunday to you, too! :D

[ACE-OF-ACES]

As Chivas said, if they had told people the game wasn't working at release (some might say broken), would people have purchased it?
Well one mans broken is another mans working

The word broken is very subjective and debatable

On one end of the scale some would define broken as the game does not even run/start
On the other end of the scale some would define broken as the color of the dash board is 'not correct'

So with that in mind, can you name one, or more, things that you consider to be broken?

Just so we know where you fall on that scale

Because I personally don't see anything I would call broken that would be consider a reason to not release the game.. Even in it's initial version release it was very playable.. As LoBiSoMeM, Fliegenpilz, Momod, Snapper, and nearmiss stated in their reply post yours.

As noted the term 'broken' means different things to different people, and as I suspected in my previous post, no one will be able to point to a 'real thing' that is missing from the game that was listed on the box. Thus 1C is NOT guilty of deceptive business practices' IMHO.

Because god knows if they were, one of these but hurt smacktards would have already started a class action suit against 1C/ubi listing said item. The fact that there is no such thing only proves what I already stated, buggie software does not equate to false advertisement.

Instead it seems that misinformation was put out that the game was running on a less than top of the line computer just before CoD's initial release to generate sales I would assume.
Another 'non real thing' example

For those whos game does run fine they do not belive misinformation was put out
For those whos game does not run fine they belive misinformation was put out

But neither can point to something that says it is guaranteed to run fine on 'their' PC

What with all the verity in PCs these days only a unrealistic person would expect game software to run perfect on all PCs upon it initial release. Thus once again 1C is NOT guilty of deceptive business practices' IMHO.

There was genuine excitement about that on the UBI forum only to be ruined by less than glowing user reports.
Which is true of most if not all new games

People tend to get a little excited.. and even hyper excited to the point that no release will meet their expectations! You know these types of people, they are the ones that expect a 'beta' patch to be perfect and free of bugs. The types that live and operate in a very unrealistic view of the world and therefore will never be satisfied.

I find that deceptive.
Well that is your opinion

But know that you have pointed to no 'real thing' IMHO, just subjective and debatable things. Case in point, look at all the people who posted after your last post that consider the game to be very playable as is. Granted there are some people is this world that will be happy staring at the blue screen of death, but I don't think any of those people that posted after you did those extreme types. They find a lot of value in the game as is. So knowing that some people are happy with it and some people are unhappy with it tells you that this is not deception on 1Cs part.. More different expectations on the users part! Read as different opinions on what the definition of broken/deceptive means, not some conspiracy by 1C.

I said nothing about false advertising. I understand what buggy is. I understand all features previously mentioned over CoDs development lifetime might not make the initial release.
That is good to hear!

What I don't understand is claiming boldly that a product works acceptably well when clearly it didn't.
That is easy to understand onces you stop and consider the verity in PC

That is deception, if not an outright lie.
Disagree 100%

More than that it was and is disappointing considering the relationship we previously had with the Il2 team.
That cuts both ways!

1C could say the same about the user.. What with 1C's history of support and providing free upgrades I think 1C must be kind of surprise at the response it is getting from 'some' of these sold called users they thought they had a relationship with.

[ElAurens]

Beta testing is messy, often frustrating, almost always tedious work that often leads to me just shutting the computer down (if the game test in question didn't do it for me...) and taking a break.

Sure it has it's rewarding moments, like seeing stuff before the general community if it's a closed beta, or knowing that you helped in some small way to make the title in question better for everyone. However, mostly its boring, repetitive work with lots of note taking and usually done alone.

In essence it's not fun, and it's not for everyone.

So rather than come in here and make wind up posts about the state of how the game was released, or how the BETA crashed your system, why not just go back to the standard release version, fly the sim as it is and wait for those who can handle beta testing to do their work so you can play.

That alone would go a long way towards making things better for us all, and create a more civil environment on this now going down in flames forum.

[Vengeanze]

Mostof us enjoy receiving the patches. It is a good reassurance things are happening, and hopefully improving.

I look at the names of contributors to this thread. It's a fact, most of you have been vehement complainers at various times. Timely information feeds the lions is my take on it.

So yeah, bring on beta and patches I'm please to DL every one of them and give them a go.

Happy Sunday to all.

I dunno which category I fall into but I've been a contributor to this thread and I've been complaining. But I stopped when they released the hotfix. Now I'm enjoying and beta testing this sim like everyone else. It's a masterpiece.
However, I'm still stunned how they could miss the so obvious explosion bug. Only reason I can see is that they do not really test the game (just the parts they've been working on) prior to releasing a beta thus using us as their testers. Some are ok with that and other not so much. But that's what we got now so I'm suckin it.
EDIT: Just read ElAurens post and want to say that releasing a public beta and then assume that it'll work like a closed beta is not possible. It's like putting a bucket of cakemix infront of your kid and tell him not to eat anything yet cause "it's not done".
Sorry, as long as it's public I'll download it and will make my voice heard in this forum.
But like I said earlier, I vote for a closed beta.

I've got two issues with CloD. Number one is that the optimization hasn't been done yet. On the contrary framerate are even worse than earlier.
My fps is around 30 now when it use to be close to 40. I won't lower any more settings so optimization is my main interest right now.

Second, all the small details that are wrong, like inverted controls, weird colors, spelling errors, sucky campaign, missing AI comms, non-intuitive menues, defuncked loadouts, etc is a sign of a programming culture that I'm not use to or perhaps lack of resources (programmers).

I think it's important to understand that most if not all of us in here are great fans of the IL-2 series and we all want CloD to "be all it can be". I think alot of the complaining springs from frustration and eagerness.

[Pudfark]

I dunno which category I fall into but I've been a contributor to this thread and I've been complaining. But I stopped when they released the hotfix. Now I'm enjoying and beta testing this sim like everyone else. It's a masterpiece.
However, I'm still stunned how they could miss the so obvious explosion bug. Only reason I can see is that they do not really test the game (just the parts they've been working on) prior to releasing a beta thus using us as their testers. Some are ok with that and other not so much. But that's what we got now so I'm suckin it.
EDIT: Just read ElAurens post and want to say that releasing a public beta and then assume that it'll work like a closed beta is not possible. It's like putting a bucket of cakemix infront of your kid and tell him not to eat anything yet cause "it's not done".
Sorry, as long as it's public I'll download it and will make my voice heard in this forum.
But like I said earlier, I vote for a closed beta.

I've got two issues with CloD. Number one is that the optimization hasn't been done yet. On the contrary framerate are even worse than earlier.
My fps is around 30 now when it use to be close to 40. I won't lower any more settings so optimization is my main interest right now.

Second, all the small details that are wrong, like inverted controls, weird colors, spelling errors, sucky campaign, missing AI comms, non-intuitive menues, defuncked loadouts, etc is a sign of a programming culture that I'm not use to or perhaps lack of resources (programmers).

I think it's important to understand that most if not all of us in here are great fans of the IL-2 series and we all want CloD to "be all it can be". I think alot of the complaining springs from frustration and eagerness.

Exactly....

[zwiebacksaege]

So you complain about how we can dare to raise critics on a beta patch because you think we don't understand the word "beta"? Well the word "patch" is also inside this, dear friends!
And patch in my opinion means that an existing thing is made better.
I just don't understand why formerly working things need to be destroyed for placing new features - this is just not what I expect to be a "patch" - beta or not. Maybe we just need a new name for it. :-) midnight try-out or something like that...

[robtek]

So you complain about how we can dare to raise critics on a beta patch because you think we don't understand the word "beta"? Well the word "patch" is also inside this, dear friends!
And patch in my opinion means that an existing thing is made better.
I just don't understand why formerly working things need to be destroyed for placing new features - this is just not what I expect to be a "patch" - beta or not. Maybe we just need a new name for it. :-) midnight try-out or something like that...

And that, liebe Zwiebacksäge, tells us exactly that you haven't understood the "beta"-thingy.

[mustang137]

So you complain about how we can dare to raise critics on a beta patch because you think we don't understand the word "beta"? Well the word "patch" is also inside this, dear friends!
And patch in my opinion means that an existing thing is made better.
I just don't understand why formerly working things need to be destroyed for placing new features - this is just not what I expect to be a "patch" - beta or not. Maybe we just need a new name for it. :-) midnight try-out or something like that...

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff254/UnionPac/Misc/1214781156114.jpg

[6S.Manu]

So you complain about how we can dare to raise critics on a beta patch because you think we don't understand the word "beta"? Well the word "patch" is also inside this, dear friends!
And patch in my opinion means that an existing thing is made better.
I just don't understand why formerly working things need to be destroyed for placing new features - this is just not what I expect to be a "patch" - beta or not. Maybe we just need a new name for it. :-) midnight try-out or something like that...

I see your point. It's a thing that I stated long time ago.

Here we are not testing a "patch". We are testing a new version of the game.

So we should not call it "Beta-Patch" but "CoD Version X - Beta".

When the game will be finished (speaking about contents) then we'll be provided with real patches.


Look at the ugly thing called "Red Orchestra 2": the game is complete but is a mess (so many bugs!) and I'm really mad at it, because without the bugs it would be enjoyable. This game needs patches.

Instead I don't care about CoD's bugs since IMO it's still a unplayable game (and infact I'm not actually playing with it). This game needs to be finished.

[ElAurens]

In this case the workd BETA supercedes the word patch.

And as some of us suspected, most of you do not understand this.

[Davy TASB]

In this case the workd BETA supercedes the word patch.

And as some of us suspected, most of you do not understand this.

:grin:

[ACE-OF-ACES]

So you complain about how we can dare to raise critics on a beta patch because you think we don't understand the word "beta"?
Correct!

Just replace 'raise critics on' with 'whine about finding a bug in' and you will be 100% correct!

Well the word "patch" is also inside this, dear friends!
So?

And patch in my opinion means that an existing thing is made better.
In your opinion, but clearly not everyone opinion.

I just don't understand why formerly working things need to be destroyed for placing new features - this is just not what I expect to be a "patch" - beta or not.
Because you clearly do not understand the interactions of software changes.. As in how a fix hear can sometimes break something there, or how a coding mistake itself can break something. They are only human, hence the whole concept behind 'beta' testing

Maybe we just need a new name for it. :-) midnight try-out or something like that...
Nope, just need people understand the meaning of the current word 'beta' in that it means try-out

[ACE-OF-ACES]

And that, liebe Zwiebacksäge, tells us exactly that you haven't understood the "beta"-thingy.
+1

[ACE-OF-ACES]

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff254/unionpac/misc/1214781156114.jpg
rotfl

[ACE-OF-ACES]

So we should not call it "Beta-Patch" but "CoD Version X - Beta".
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet

[ACE-OF-ACES]

In this case the workd BETA supercedes the word patch.

And as some of us suspected, most of you do not understand this.
Bingo!

[zwiebacksaege]

Even if some or may be most of you do not agree with me, I can't understand what's the reason to get insulting? The effort my small post is disassembled just looks like someone's paying you money for it instead of investing it into proper software development...

[Trooper117]

Don't worry about it mate, we all get frustrated with the game at times.. some people have made it their mission to belittle anyone who doesn't have the same view as themselves.. it's the norm in just about any forum you care to visit.
Get them face to face for a conversation on the same subject and they wouldn't say things in quite the same way I assure you.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Even if some or may be most of you do not agree with me,
Most

I can't understand what's the reason to get insulting?
Insulting?

The effort my small post is disassembled just looks like someone's paying you money for it instead of investing it into proper software development...
Now your claiming it is conspiracy theory?

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Don't worry about it mate, we all get frustrated with the game at times..
True

some people have made it their mission to belittle anyone who doesn't have the same view as themselves.. it's the norm in just about any forum you care to visit.
Nope, it has nothing to do with a difference in views/opinions

It has everything to do with the definition of the word 'beta' and the responsibilities that come with testing beta software

Get them face to face for a conversation on the same subject and they wouldn't say things in quite the same way I assure you.
Maybe for some, but at 6'4" at 240lbs I have never had any problem telling anyone what I think face to face

[Trooper117]

And there you have it,.. I took on people of the same stature during P company milling.. .. didn't stop me reminding them size and bulk isn't everything when I gave them a flippin good pasting.. They looked a little different after.. lol!

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

This is why we 'make waves'. This is why we care. Violently, and if need be, in extremis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHh8isGtB6w

Thy will be done. :D

[zwiebacksaege]

don't be too sure that most of the people agree in boot-licking the devs for every single feature they give us half a year after paying for it.
and i'm not claiming anything I just wish the devs are working as intense on the game as you cry about critic.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

don't be too sure that most of the people agree in boot-licking the devs for every single feature they give us half a year after paying for it.
Boot Licking?

So let me see if I understand you correctly..

You didn't understand the meaning of word 'beta'..

And the community pointed that out to you in their reply back to you..

Your claiming that those who tried to help 'you' are part of some sort of 1C conspiracy and/or boot lickers?

Is that what you want us to belive?

Instead of just admitting you didn't understand the meaning of the word 'beta'

and i'm not claiming anything I just wish the devs are working as intense on the game as you cry about critic.
Implying or claiming.. take your pick

[ACE-OF-ACES]

This is why we 'make waves'. This is why we care. Violently, and if need be, in extremis

Thy will be done. :D
Yawn

[philip.ed]

The fact is that a patch is usually indicative of progress; improving what is already tangible and playable. In this case, as far as development goes, the team are using this forum as their testing area, and with this in mind, we can't expect progress at any stages. Certainly we can expect to see the game expanded, but whether this expansion is of a high standard is questionable.
Take the landscape colours: Beta 1 was a brilliant step to a fairly accurate representation of England, and Beta 2 is completely reactionary. That is not progress. Is it a patch? The change carries the word patch, but it's not an improvement. And the word patch is usually metaphorical for fixing something.
The lighting has been 'patched', the sounds patched. The cockpits? Well, Beta 1 degraded perfect work, and Beta 2 has pretty much ruined it.

But wait! The word Beta solves everything :rolleyes: No, it doesn't. Issues are expected with development, a patch won't always improve the game, a Beta patch even more so, and both may throw up unexpeted problems; but at no stage is it expected that a patch will undo brilliant work. Beta or no beta, the title for that kind of 'destruction' is irrelevent. And my post can be deconstructed as many times by Aces-of-Aces, his work will be irrelevent to the fundamentals of what a Beta is. If we are viewing the Beta as a testing area for changes, then yes, it could be applied here, but is that the case? Has Luthier stated that they are trying out some new colours, and asked us what we think? Has he asked people who actually live in Blighty to post their constructive opinions, or asked the experts among us like fruitbat? No, he hasn't. In this case, this is a change made. For someone who views the change as improvement, it may be viewed as a patch, but as someone who has flown over England many times, as far as terrain colours go this is a major step backwards. Not a patch. And don't even get me started about the cockpits. Is removing the beautiful reflections in the gauges patching the game? God no! Even at beta stage, one would expect a 'patch' to add to the game. Not take away!

Enough from me, just my 2P. We are testing Beta software, and there-in lies why some will post their truthful opinion: to see the game actually improved.

Boot Licking?


And the community pointed that out to you in their reply back to you..





A few members...hardly the community, unless we really are being narrow minded here?

[Trooper117]

and i'm not claiming anything I just wish the devs are working as intense on the game as you cry about critic.

Well, No-one knows how hard the devs are working but I'd guess pretty hard.. their livelihoods depend on their success after all..
I'd like to think they are giving it max in the office.. :grin:

[ACE-OF-ACES]

The fact is that a patch is usually indicative of progress; improving what is already tangible and playable. In this case, as far as development goes, the team are using this forum as their testing area, and with this in mind, we can't expect progress at any stages. Certainly we can expect to see the game expanded, but whether this expansion is of a high standard is questionable.
Take the landscape colours: Beta 1 was a brilliant step to a fairly accurate representation of England, and Beta 2 is completely reactionary. That is not progress. Is it a patch? The change carries the word patch, but it's not an improvement. And the word patch is usually metaphorical for fixing something.
The lighting has been 'patched', the sounds patched. The cockpits? Well, Beta 1 degraded perfect work, and Beta 2 has pretty much ruined it.

But wait! The word Beta solves everything :rolleyes: No, it doesn't. Issues are expected with development, a patch won't always improve the game, a Beta patch even more so, and both may throw up unexpeted problems; but at no stage is it expected that a patch will undo brilliant work. Beta or no beta, the title for that kind of 'destruction' is irrelevent. And my post can be deconstructed as many times by Aces-of-Aces, his work will be irrelevent to the fundamentals of what a Beta is. If we are viewing the Beta as a testing area for changes, then yes, it could be applied here, but is that the case? Has Luthier stated that they are trying out some new colours, and asked us what we think? Has he asked people who actually live in Blighty to post their constructive opinions, or asked the experts among us like fruitbat? No, he hasn't. In this case, this is a change made. For someone who views the change as improvement, it may be viewed as a patch, but as someone who has flown over England many times, as far as terrain colours go this is a major step backwards. Not a patch. And don't even get me started about the cockpits. Is removing the beautiful reflections in the gauges patching the game? God no! Even at beta stage, one would expect a 'patch' to add to the game. Not take away!

Enough from me, just my 2P. We are testing Beta software, and there-in lies why some will post their truthful opinion: to see the game actually improved.
Add one more to the list

[zwiebacksaege]

again i'm not claiming anything as you always want to believe. I just want to give the hint not to be too sure that most of the people who bought this game are satisfied the way it develops. You seem to know that most of them do because of 2 or 3 posts.

so now that you explained the word beta so fine to me... you may also tell me why it wasn't in big letters on my collectors edition?

[Trooper117]

Bingo!

[philip.ed]

Add one more to the list

Which list is this? I posted my honest opinion to expect mature debate. That comment is childish, and lacks little substance. If you posseseed any analytical skills, it would be clear that I had agreed with your view on the title of Beta, but had refuted the idea that a Beta patch always shows mprovement which negates criticism.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

again i'm not claiming anything as you always want to believe.
Implying or claiming.. take your pick

I just want to give the hint not to be too sure that most of the people who bought this game are satisfied the way it develops.
Based on your record thus far.. I can understand why you would want to retreat from your earlier claims to this above

You seem to know that most of them do because of 2 or 3 posts.
Nope

Not based on two post, based on my experience that most (read adults) understand what 'beta' means

so now that you explained the word beta so fine to me... you may also tell me why it wasn't in big letters on my collectors edition?
Looks like you need it explained to you further.. because based on what you just said you still don't get it

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Which list is this? I posted my honest opinion to expect mature debate. That comment is childish, and lacks little substance. If you posseseed any analytical skills, it would be clear that I had agreed with your view on the title of Beta, but had refuted the idea that a Beta patch always shows mprovement which negates criticism.
Philip..

You seem to have me confused with someone that cares about what you have to say..

Know that I don't!

And I haven't for some time now!

I know your still upset with me for how you got set straight wrt trying to lock my posts back in the AAA forums.. But let it go bud! And if you have anything you want to talk about, feel free to PM me instead of posting tangent topics in this thread. S!

[philip.ed]

Mate, I have no personal issues with you at all.
that is completely childish. I don't even post in the modding forums any-more because I haven't played Il-2 1946 for ages.
I'm quite bemused by that, as I always thought you were a fairly mature individual. Tangent topics? I have stayed on topic, and have no wish to appear hypocritical, unlike yourself.
Irrelevent personal issues aside, it is quite clear why you don't wish to challenge my argument; because it quite clearly embodies the idea of a 'Beta' 'patch' in a rather more fluid, eloquent way than what has been posted previously. But it is a debate, and I'm happy for someone to disagree. At the end of the day, it is just my opinion.

So no hard feelings on my part, but I'm sorry that I have upset you.

EDIT-to save further posting, the PM part which I misunderstood was that I have no wish to regurgiate past activities and have personal discussions. I only posted here to have my opinion voiced; I didn't expect personal challenge. Moderator, feel free to delete these irrelevent posts if you wish. Thank you. :)

[ACE-OF-ACES]

So what part of PM me did you not understand?

[zwiebacksaege]

i'm very sorry about having disturbed this wonderful thread. i will keep my dumb feedback to holy beta patches for me in future. very sorry again just to talk about this.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

i'm very sorry about having disturbed this wonderful thread. i will keep my dumb feedback to holy beta patches for me in future. very sorry again just to talk about this.
And I am very sorry that you are not able to admit you didn't and don't understand what 'beta' means

[Trooper117]

So what part of PM me did you not understand?

Hey you self obsessed fub.. want to challenge me to a bit of PM bullying? because thats what you are, arrogant, large, internet bully boy..
C'mon fub.. PM me and lets get at it.. and yes, I remember you from AAA, you were just the same then, and the whole forum went downhill as soon as the likes of you started berating people who didn't agree with you..
C'mon big boy, lets go!

[zwiebacksaege]

that's the way life is... no light without shadow. there will always be dumb people like me.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Hey you self obsessed fub.. want to challenge me to a bit of PM bullying? because thats what you are, arrogant, large, internet bully boy..
C'mon fub.. PM me and lets get at it.. and yes, I remember you from AAA, you were just the same then, and the whole forum went downhill as soon as the likes of you started berating people who didn't agree with you..
C'mon big boy, lets go!
LOL

Trooper.. let it go! Before you pop something you need!

[Tvrdi]

Its not the betas what bothers me. In fact we are all using betas on our own. It helps fixing bugs. Its the fact that the game was released in alpha stage and was sold and advertised as complete and working product. Why they dont have dedicated beta team like in ROF? Why the sim wasnt beta tested (obviously wasnt) with help of dedicated beta team before release? This way we could avoid all the mess, hate and BAD ad for this sim.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

that's the way life is... no light without shadow. there will always be dumb people like me.
Never said you were dumb

None of us knows everything!

We all have our strong and weak points

What sets us apart in the end is if we can admit we have weak points

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

Couldn't have put it better meself, ed.

Bravo.

[zwiebacksaege]

no of course you don't. you imply it with your high-handed style.

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

Mate, I have no personal issues with you at all.
that is completely childish. I don't even post in the modding forums any-more because I haven't played Il-2 1946 for ages.
I'm quite bemused by that, as I always thought you were a fairly mature individual. Tangent topics? I have stayed on topic, and have no wish to appear hypocritical, unlike yourself.
Irrelevent personal issues aside, it is quite clear why you don't wish to challenge my argument; because it quite clearly embodies the idea of a 'Beta' 'patch' in a rather more fluid, eloquent way than what has been posted previously. But it is a debate, and I'm happy for someone to disagree. At the end of the day, it is just my opinion.

So no hard feelings on my part, but I'm sorry that I have upset you.

EDIT-to save further posting, the PM part which I misunderstood was that I have no wish to regurgiate past activities and have personal discussions. I only posted here to have my opinion voiced; I didn't expect personal challenge. Moderator, feel free to delete these irrelevent posts if you wish. Thank you. :)

Couldn't have put it better meself, ed.

Bravo.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Its not the betas what bothers me.
Funny in that in your earlier post that seemed to be exactly what was bothering you

In fact we are all using betas on our own. It helps fixing bugs.
It can help

But when people expect a 'beta' patch to be 'bug free' and/or not 'change' anything to the point that they get so upset that they fall to the floor in the fetal position as if 1C touched them in their NO NO place.. Well that is not helpful

Its the fact that the game was released in alpha stage and was sold and advertised as complete and working product.
Not fact

Your opinion

As I asked someone else in an earlier post

Can you point to something advertised on the side of the box that is NOT provided? Something real like "15 FLYABLE AIRCRAFT" when there is only 10 flyable, and not something subjective/debatable like "MOST REALISTIC FLIGHT MODEL"

Because I have looked and I don't see anything missing

And if you were expecting a 'bug free' software product on DAY ONE

Well that is another thread in and of itself that would be along the same lines of not understanding what 'beta' means, but more along the lines of 'unrealistic expectations'

Why they don't have dedicated beta team like in ROF?
If I had to guess it might have something to do with RoF charging $ for add ons

Why the sim wasn't beta tested (obviously wasn't) with help of dedicated beta team before release?
Once again you have proved you do not understand what 'beta' means and that you have not concept of what goes into software development

This way we could avoid all the mess, hate and BAD ad.
Best way to avoid it is for people who don't understand the what 'beta' means and the concept of beta testing is for them to not download 'BETA' patches

It really is that simple

[ACE-OF-ACES]

no of course you don't. you imply it with your high-handed style.
Sorry you feel that way but feeling that way does not make it true

But since you brought it up, I would call you ignorant to what 'beta' means, not stupid

In that ignorant means your capable of understanding once it is explained to you, where as stupid means you will never get it

Thus far you are on the stupid road.. but not so far down that road that you could not turn back to the ignorant fork in the road

All it take is for you to muster up enough energy to over come your ego such that you can admit you were wrong about what 'beta' means

[Gerbil Maximus]

Dunno bout you lot, but i didnt pay, and in no way was led to believe that i was paying, £35 for a beta, and that 6 months on would be only a fraction of the game that was and still is advertised on release.
Away you cut it, we all got ripped. Just because its sort of playable now doesnt make it worth it.
Personally I think it all hinges on the next offical patch, because no matter how many fanbois there are here, they cant save it unless they all do something like buy 5 copies a week for the next few months :-P

[Topo]

The problem is'nt the beta patches, obviously they aren't perfect, they are beta after all.
The problem is the entire sim released in alpha stage.
At this point, the only options is to be patient and collaborative.
The sim can only be better after time, and now i start to be happy with it.
But isn't serious to negate the problem IMHO.

Sorry for my english...

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Dunno bout you lot, but i didnt pay, and in no way was led to believe that i was paying, £35 for a beta, and that 6 months on would be only a fraction of the game that was and still is advertised on release. Away you cut it, we all got ripped. Just because its sort of playable now doesnt make it worth it.
Interesting

There is that 'claim' again.. That we did not receive something that was advertised on the box

So, maybe I am missing something that was listed on the box (or STEAM download site)

So please.. can anyone point me to something 'REAL' that we did not receive that was advertised?

Anyone?

Personally I think it all hinges on the next official patch, because no matter how many fanbois there are here, they cant save it unless they by 5 copies a week for the next few months :-P
Enh.. I don't know, based on 1C track record I think they will pull it off.. It might take awhile but I honestly belive that a year from now CoD will be held up as the best flight sim ever. I could be wrong but I hope not! But based on 1C track record with IL-2, what with all the support and patches that not only fixed things but added new content.. I think our only change is with 1C in that other game makers take the money and run.

[Gerbil Maximus]

I hope im wrong but hey this team isnt the 1C team from the past are far as i know, Not that it should make any difference.
I dont like getting getting into this naming crap but i'll give you one point. The rest, well if your happy with no multi-core ,AA, fullscreen etc etc then cool. But also there were lots of features talked about for years on these forums before release. It guts me that so much was cut also because of this epifilter.

Latest-gen graphics engine with DX10 and DX11 API support. Huge variety of photorealistic ground vehicles, buildings and other environmental elements recreate minute details of 1940s Europe.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

I hope im wrong but hey this team isnt the 1C team from the past are far as i know.
Good point

I don't know how much if any of the original IL-2 team is coding CoD

But hopefully it goes deeper than the current crop of programers and more to do with the company philosophy of making a great flight sim

I don't like getting getting into this naming crap but I'll give you one point. The rest, well if your happy with no multi-core ,AA, fullscreen etc etc then cool.
Well don't feel bad

Your not the 1st one to make the claim

Only to find out the claim is baseless

But also there were lots of features talked about for years on these forums before release. It guts me that so much was cut also because of this epifilter.
As I expected and noted the first time this came up

A lot of features were talked about over the past 6+ years of CoD development

Most of which did not make it into the initial release

But to be fair, a lot of those features were myths that got talked about so much by so many other than 1C that a lot of people think 1C said it

Combined that with human nature where we tend to have higher expectations than it is understandable why so many 'feel' let down.. But understanding why people 'feel' let down does not equate to an excuse to act like spoiled brats either!

Latest-gen graphics engine with DX10 and DX11 API support. Huge variety of photorealistic ground vehicles, buildings and other environmental elements recreate minute details of 1940s Europe.
Not sure what that post was suppose to prove? But assuming that is lifted from the CoD box I would say we got all that and more!!

Thus the offer still stands

Can ANYONE point to ANYTHING that was ADVERTISED that we DID NOT RECEIVE?

I know the answer is NO because if there was ONE THING MISSING these but hurt hissy fit types would already be FACE BOOKING each other wrt a class action law suit to get their $50 buck back

[Vengeanze]

Join a 128-player jump-in/jump-out multiplayer mode where battles can last hours, days or even weeks.
Show me to the server plz

Latest-gen graphics engine with DX10 and DX11 API support
DX11 support?

Be involved in strategic cooperative missions
Coops?

All flyable aircraft have been painstakingly researched, resulting in incredibly accurate cockpit interiors.
Inversed controls, etc, etc



And I'd like to meet the guy who got the minimum specs wothout micro- and macrostutters.
Minimum:
Pentium® Dual-Core 2.0GHz
2GB RAM
DirectX® 9.0c compliant, 512Mb Video Card

[Chivas]

Many if not most of the original development team are still working on the development and the development has basically the same business model of supporting this sim and adding new content for years.

Yes many of the features are delayed due to technical and other difficulties, but haven't been dropped.

It is what it is, but you have the choice of either throwing the development under the bus, and losing your investment, or support them with a good possibility of many years of top combat flight sim enjoyment.

It appears that the development has so far weathered the huge challenge of releasing an unfinished product, hopefully the sales are strong enough to get them through the finishing of this first installment and the release of their next theater. If they make it that far then the development will be secure.

Hoping the sim will survive and trashing it every chance you get is totally counter productive. I'm not talking about constructive criticism here.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Before I reply.. Vengeanze.. Please tell me you are NOT serious? And that you just so upset that you felt the need to try something.. That or you didn't understand the question and the examples I gave showing the difference between 'REAL' vs. 'SUBJECTIVE' features.

Now lets begin..

Join a 128-player jump-in/jump-out multiplayer mode where battles can last hours, days or even weeks. Show me to the server plz
So let me see if I understand you correctly here..

It is 1C's fault that no one has put up a server yet that allows 128 players.

Is that what you want me to belive?

Latest-gen graphics engine with DX10 and DX11 API supportDX11 support?
Hey.. you 'might' have found one? Not sure, so allow me to ask, what are you basing your statement that CoD is not DX11 compliant?

Be involved in strategic cooperative missions Coops?
So let me see if I understand you correctly here..

It is 1C's fault that no one has put up a coop server yet?

Is that what you want me to belive?

All flyable aircraft have been painstakingly researched, resulting in incredibly accurate cockpit interiors.Inversed controls, etc, etc
So let me see if I understand you correctly here..

It is 1C's fault that your don't know how to make use of the inverse option in the setup?

Is that what you want me to belive?

And I'd like to meet the guy who got the minimum specs wothout micro- and macrostutters.
Minimum:
Pentium® Dual-Core 2.0GHz
2GB RAM
DirectX® 9.0c compliant, 512Mb Video Card
If you did get a chance to meet the guy.. You would most likely meet an 'adult' that realizes that he will NOT be able to run the game with all options set to HIGH, and therefore like an 'adult' make use to the many options that CoD provides that allows him to turn down some options to obtain the fps that is suitable to him. Unlike 'children' that expect and want it all and think options are silly

So out of the 5 examples you gave, only 1 comes close, but as noted I would like to know what make you think CoD is not compliant?

[Vengeanze]

Hoping the sim will survive and trashing it every chance you get is totally counter productive. I'm not talking about constructive criticism here.

I understand what you're saying Chivas Regal and we're both after the same thing. However, I'm a Darwinist on this one so if the resources and/or competence ain't enough to make a viable product within reasonable time then let it die.
I'll continue bitching about the missing AI Comms cause that's one example of things that should have been in the 31 march release.

Now, anyone seen a Community manager lately?

[Vengeanze]

*something about something not related that I stopped reading after two sentences*

Seriously aOa, you don't seem to know it but you disqualified yourself a long time ago.
I won't bite cause you always got a nasty bullying undertone.
No offense but I prefer debating with others. It's not you, it's me. ;-)

[ACE-OF-ACES]

I'm a Darwinist on this one so if the resources and/or competence ain't enough to make a viable product within reasonable time then let it die.
So if Vengeanze is not happy.. it should die for everyone?

I think not

Now if your really that un-happy.. Be adult about it and 'let it die' for you!

It's easy!

There is this option that allows you to un-install the game! I highly recomend that you make use of it!

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Seriously aOa, you don't seem to know it but you disqualified yourself a long time ago.
I won't bite cause you always got a nasty bullying undertone.
No offense but I prefer debating with others. It's not you, it's me. ;-)
Sorry if the facts have upset you so much.. but there is the un-install option calling your name! Go for it!

[ACE-OF-ACES]

In light of Vengeanze epic fail in an attempt to list missing features..

The offer still stands!

Can ANYONE point to ANYTHING that was ADVERTISED that we DID NOT RECEIVE?

Anyone?

I know the answer is NO because if there was ONE THING MISSING these but hurt hissy fit types would already be FACE BOOKING each other wrt a class action law suit to get their $50 buck back

[Tvrdi]

Ace of shi*es....damn how many posts you did (in a short time) just to show how f**ing si*k you are.....ahaha

I thought your just another hypnotised die hard fan with too much of free time....but ur si*k

you dont exist dude....fluushhh!!

[zwiebacksaege]

what else should you do while the game's not working ;-)

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Ace of shi*tes....damn how many posts you did (in a short time) just to show how f**ing si*k you are.....ahaha

I thought your just another hypnotised die hard fan with too much of free time....but ur si*k

you dont exist dude....fluushhh!!
So let me see if I understand you correctly

I showed you how wrong you were..

But instead of admitting your wrong, or providing an argument to the contrary

You decided to take the adult path and attack me personally

And to try and imply that the number of post I have in response to those who replied to me some how diminishes the information provided in my posts

That might work on the but hurt temper tantrum crowd that expects perfection from a patch with 'beta' in the title

But not the rest!

So a big gold star for effort

But no sale

[tk471138]

I have to wonder what part of 'beta' do these people not understand?

I mean the download clearly says 'beta' in the title.. right?

So I don't think they can say they didn't realize it is a 'beta' patch.. But than again their are people in their 30s trying to sue cigarette companies claiming they didn't realize smoking was bad.. Even though cigarette packages have had warning labels for over 30 years.. So I guess I am not surprised that a few people try to..

I guess I just never realized there were 'so many' of these 'few' types of people.

Here luthier gives us a beta patch to 'test'.. Yet these people act shocked that there is a bug in a beta patch? To the point that some are having a total break down hissy fit and saying they give up..

@ luthier.. I know you meant well..

And I know you thought you might be able to receive some useful feedback by releasing this beta patch to the masses.. The idea being more people beta testings means you will be able to find and fix bugs sooner..

And I know you even went as far as to say in your first post, i.e.



Yet they act as if you said nothing at all.. based on the majority of the responses thus far..

I think you might be better off sticking to the way you have done it in the past.. Just release the beta patch to your smaller select group of testers..

Oh sure that means it will take longer to find bugs because there are less people beta testing..

But when you consider that 'most' of the 'masses' are not even willing to make use of a work around (turn effects to low) to continue beta testing..

You got to ask yourself is it worth the trouble?

Clearly 'most' of the 'masses' here have no idea of what beta means and the purpose behind releasing a beta patch


you are a retard....you see when you pay for something maybe you expect to be taken advantage of and to not get a product you paid for....maybe you do not have any dignity and dont care about your self and the stuff you buy (your property) to work....but some people still feel that when they buy something it should work as advertised....generally when companies have their customers test their products they get paid...and sometimes they get paid QUITE WELL....That is why people are mad....they feel that they didnt buy a game that could be considered in a beta state...i could care less as i am patient and know that they WILL get the game in order, and until then i would save alot of heartache by simply playing other games i enjoy and participating in other activities that i enjoy....its that easy...

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Yawn

Add one more to the list!

In light of tk471138 epic fail in an attempt to list missing features..

The offer still stands!

Can ANYONE point to ANYTHING that was ADVERTISED that we DID NOT RECEIVE?

Anyone?

I know the answer is NO because if there was ONE THING MISSING these but hurt hissy fit types would already be FACE BOOKING each other wrt a class action law suit to get their $50 buck back

[Tvrdi]

Yawn

Add one more to the list!

In light of tk471138 epic fail in an attempt to list missing features..

The offer still stands!

Can ANYONE point to ANYTHING that was ADVERTISED that we DID NOT RECEIVE?

Anyone?

I know the answer is NO because if there was ONE THING MISSING these but hurt hissy fit types would already be FACE BOOKING each other wrt a class action law suit to get their $50 buck back

it seams you lost your memory recently....when the game was released it was unplayable on most machines (performance wise)....and on promo videos from Luthier everything seemed ok....only with latest beta pacth it gets better but still far away from problems...most still has major slowdowns near more planes or when ditching, some of them have constant CTDs, AA (still) not working (do you think its normal for a w21st century sim to be released without working AA? And still months after the release it doesnt work). We are not talking about features here.....do you remember antiepilepsy comedy show? CLOD is main actor....

[ACE-OF-ACES]

it seams you lost your memory recently....when the game was released it was unplayable on most machines (performance wise)....and on promo videos from Luthier everything seemed ok....only with latest beta pacth it gets better but still far away from problems...most still has major slowdowns near more planes or when ditching, some of them have constant CTDs, AA (still) not working (do you think its normal for a w21st century sim to be released without working AA? And still months after the release it doesnt work). We are not talking about features here.....do you remember antiepilepsy comedy show? CLOD is main actor....
In light of Tvrdi epic fail in an attempt to list missing features..

The offer still stands!

Can ANYONE point to ANYTHING that was ADVERTISED that we DID NOT RECEIVE?

Anyone?

I know the answer is NO because if there was ONE THING MISSING these but hurt hissy fit types would already be FACE BOOKING each other wrt a class action law suit to get their $50 buck back

And can someone take the time to explain to Tvr that most machines is not all machines, and if you have time tell him how unrealistic it is to expect prefection in any software release these days.. On only has to take a look at all the service packs for each windows OS to get a clue.. And maybe even point out that for every one game he can find that never had a patch I can point to hundreds that did

[philip.ed]

You decided to take the adult path and attack me personally



Which was what you did earlier today to me? The hypocrisy of your posts discredits any credible argument you may have even put forward.

As far as what wasn't included, are we to believe that Oleg Maddox's posts are indicative of anything promised in the game's release? If yes, there is a shopping list of features, be sure to check his posts. A dynamic campaign, a map-builder (shown in videos, albeit fairly old) photorealistic terrain textures, the ability to man AAA guns. The list goes on.
None of this was advertised on the box. as far as what is on the box, the game may be developed into DX-11. It has no DX-11 features. That is misleading.
The minimum specs are completely wrong.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Which was what you did earlier today to me?
What?

Folks.. take note that philip is 'trying' to imply that I did such a thing.. Before you jump to that conclusion note that he did not quote anything I said that would remotely fit the brush he is trying to paint me with

Also know folks that philip is 'still' upset with me for things that went down a long time ago!

As for an example of a actual personal attack.. Here is one by philip, i.e.

Someone lock this. Kill two trolls with one stone.

That is how it is done folks!

Note I don't have to try and muddy the waters and fool you into thinking something.. I can point to and quote it!

@philip.. let it go bud! Before you pop something you need!

[zwiebacksaege]

up to now i can only see one "epic fail" in this thread...

[ACE-OF-ACES]

up to now i can only see one "epic fail" in this thread...
Well put the mirror down and read the posts, youll see more

[robtek]

Thanks AoA!!!

That you hold the bastion against ignorance, selfishness and much, much more.

I would have lost my nerve quite a while ago. :D

[tk471138]

it seams you lost your memory recently....when the game was released it was unplayable on most machines (performance wise)....and on promo videos from Luthier everything seemed ok....only with latest beta pacth it gets better but still far away from problems...most still has major slowdowns near more planes or when ditching, some of them have constant CTDs, AA (still) not working (do you think its normal for a w21st century sim to be released without working AA? And still months after the release it doesnt work). We are not talking about features here.....do you remember antiepilepsy comedy show? CLOD is main actor....

Thank you for this, you saved me time, that i would have otherwise wasted on this fool...i mean its because of people like him that the PC game industry is like this...people are more than willing to accept games released like this and they even go a step further and defend those who release such products...

[nearmiss]

There you go again. Managing the past again.

You can't fix it, Oleg is gone. Luthier has picked up the pieces and to my way of thinking he is making progress.

Many people are posting good things about the COD now. That is not a negative IMO.

So why does anyone bother to create these threads?

[Codex]

There you go again. Managing the past again.

You can't fix it, Oleg is gone. Luthier has picked up the pieces and to my way of thinking he is making progress.

Many people are posting good things about the COD now. That is not a negative IMO.

So why does anyone bother to create these threads?

+1

I've been wondering the same thing after having read all 11 (oops 15 pages) pages during my lunch break, and having not been enlighten. In Australia we have a term for things like this, it's usually includes the substance that is found in sewers and the action of mixing it in a bowl ;)

[Vengeanze]

Same problematic situation as when you buy a car from a friend or family. One tends to overlook the problems so when the car crash down all you're left with is a bad taste in your mouth and an aching behind.
You guys have become "Luthiers best friend" and can't take a step back to see the short-comings.

I'm aware that this thread ain't progresing anywhere but I like to b*llsh!t so...! :-D

[Tvrdi]

what is hilarious is that Im flying this sim every night now and "ACE OF ACES" is nowhere....because he is polluting this board...is he a kid? I hope so...

[Vengeanze]

what is hilarious is that Im flying this sim every night now and "ACE OF ACES" is nowhere....because he is polluting this board...is he a kid? I hope so...

I've seen that before - big mouths in the forum but invincible online.
Perhaps his online name is Ace of AI Aces. U checked for that? ;)

Or we just missed him online and he's there every night dominating the skies. :-P

[SYN_Repent]

this was advertised by steam as a feature, not sure if we got it tbh, and didnt they change it in the recent beta patches, and perhaps i read something about the whole 3d engine being changed??

New Groundbreaking 3D Engine – Huge variety of photorealistic ground vehicles, buildings and environments.


heres something advertised on the ubisoft webshop, do we have these working yet??

Be involved in strategic cooperative missions

[RAF_Nudge]

Releasing a beta that locks the game at first explosion????!!!?!?! :o
How does that give you confidence in their competence?
How could it slip through?
If they knew about it then perhaps communicate that to us - their unpaid beta testers.

Sorry if anyone disagrees with me...actually no I'm not...

But for most I think they expect far TOO MUCH from thier systems!
I am using above the recomended specs on a dedicated gaming rig and by no means is it top notch either. My game runs fine on full settings, but maybe I'm one of the lucky ones? I don't know..My specs are at the bottom of post.


MY POINT HERE IS:
To post as much detail including your crash dump files and system specs as well as your current graphics drivers and even sound drivers etc for the developers to look over and allow them to determine what the issues are....and thus move foward with beta to an official release sooner rather than later..

I myself have had the installer stop working and drop out of game forcing a game restart but have not got any crash dumps at this stage. Folder is empty?

MY SYSTEM
CPU Phenom II X4 965 @ 3.4 Ghz (Quad Core)
MB Gygabyte GA-78LMT-S2P
GPU Gigabyte 1gb GTX550 ti Nvidea Drive Ver 280.26
RAM G.Skill 8gb DDR3 1333mhz
OS Win 7 Home Premium 64Bit OEM
PSU A-Power M80 Plus 550W 80+ Certified
CASE Antec 300 gaming tower with twin 140mm fans 1x inlet 1x exhaust
MONITOR Acer 21.5" V223HQBD 5ms Monitor
HDD WD 3.5" 500gb Blue Sata 3 7200rpm
JOYSTICK Saitek Cyborg evo

[SYN_Repent]

your game runs "fine" nudge?? im sorry but i think your perception of fine and everyone else's must be out of whack, as looking at your screenshots there, the cpu and gfx card you have, there is no way the game would run "fine" on high settings, especially the settings your using, christ, if its true then we all need to build your system.

fine for me is 60 fps, locked at my vsync, what fps are you getting to state a fine performance??

[Tvrdi]

your game runs "fine" nudge?? im sorry but i think your perception of fine and everyone else's must be out of whack, as looking at your screenshots there, the cpu and gfx card you have, there is no way the game would run "fine" on high settings, especially the settings your using, christ, if its true then we all need to build your system.

fine for me is 60 fps, locked at my vsync, what fps are you getting to state a fine performance??

+1

I have a "modern rig" and still need to reduce the settings to have good performance...I noticed slowdowns only when I ditch or (sometimes) when more planes are around me...

[Skoshi Tiger]

fine for me is 60 fps, locked at my vsync, what fps are you getting to state a fine performance??

Using your criteria Repent, NO flight sim that I have ever bought (going back to Elite on my Apple][+ and I've had a few of them) has ever run "fine" at release. Until I see a video of you running the original Il2 playing the Black Death track at a consistent 60 FPS I will take your comment with a grain of salt!

Cheers!

[JG52Krupi]

what is hilarious is that Im flying this sim every night now and "ACE OF ACES" is nowhere....because he is polluting this board...is he a kid? I hope so...

Lmao so true.

[JG52Krupi]

New Groundbreaking 3D Engine – Huge variety of photorealistic ground vehicles, buildings and environments.
[/B]

Look at something called the FMB and check the game out... Its pretty damn good, certainly a step beyond rof.

[robtek]

Thank God, this thread is where it belonged to from day one.

[Gerbil Maximus]

Interesting

There is that 'claim' again.. That we did not receive something that was advertised on the box

So, maybe I am missing something that was listed on the box (or STEAM download site)

So please.. can anyone point me to something 'REAL' that we did not receive that was advertised?

Anyone?


Enh.. I don't know, based on 1C track record I think they will pull it off.. It might take awhile but I honestly belive that a year from now CoD will be held up as the best flight sim ever. I could be wrong but I hope not! But based on 1C track record with IL-2, what with all the support and patches that not only fixed things but added new content.. I think our only change is with 1C in that other game makers take the money and run.

Mate you got your one point i promised about Dx11. There are many others that have been cut from the game by the Lead Developers own admissions due to epifilter. I refuse to believe that you have been posting since 2010 and didnt watch the same development process that we have been watching, and I'm sure the data has been ommended on the avertisements. I cannot prove it but I believe that what i saw on release has been ommended to what it is now, which of course is the right thing to do.

But more to the point what the hell is wrong with people here? are these forums just full of people that want to insult each other.

We can disagree and discuss without the insults

[ParaB]

Its pretty damn good, certainly a step beyond rof.

I'd disagree. While the recent changes to the colours/lighting have indeed improved the visuals in CloD I still think RoF looks a lot better. One of my biggest problems is that South England in CloD simply doesn't look like South England while RoF's terrain does IMO an excellent job of recreating the looks of 1914-18 north-west France.

IMHO the composition of textures, lighting and 3d objects provides a much more pleasant result than CloD. Oh, and RoF has working FSAA... ;)

Of course, your mileage may vary.

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll92/Para_Bellum/rof1.jpg

[Trooper117]

C'mon guys, lets not start bashing other games.. I have Rof, IL2 1946, CoD, FSX and others, and they are all great in their own way..

[JG52Krupi]

I'd disagree. While the recent changes to the colours/lighting have indeed improved the visuals in CloD I still think RoF looks a lot better. One of my biggest problems is that South England in CloD simply doesn't look like South England while RoF's terrain does IMO an excellent job of recreating the looks of 1914-18 north-west France.

IMHO the composition of textures, lighting and 3d objects provides a much more pleasant result than CloD. Oh, and RoF has working FSAA... ;)

Of course, your mileage may vary.

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll92/Para_Bellum/rof1.jpg

Nice pic.

You will see, once we have FSAA the lighting and weather sorted then we can compare pics :D until then compare pics with no weather.

[JG52Krupi]

C'mon guys, lets not start bashing other games.. I have Rof, IL2 1946, CoD, FSX and others, and they are all great in their own way..

I'm not bashing I love rof but the multiplayer left me wanting more, there are a number of things that rof do not model and il2 already does... I will continue to support both games.

[SYN_Repent]

Look at something called the FMB and check the game out douche... Its pretty damn good, certainly a step beyond rof.

theres nothing ground breaking in there, game breaking maybe, cos its got some pretty models of hangars and kubel wagons, is that a ground breaking 3d engine.

[Trooper117]

I'm not bashing I love rof but the multiplayer left me wanting more, there are a number of things that rof do not model and il2 already does... I will continue to support both games.

Yes mate.. me too! :mrgreen:

[SYN_Repent]

Using your criteria Repent, NO flight sim that I have ever bought (going back to Elite on my Apple][+ and I've had a few of them) has ever run "fine" at release. Until I see a video of you running the original Il2 playing the Black Death track at a consistent 60 FPS I will take your comment with a grain of salt!

Cheers!

perhaps you read my comment wrong, but you admit that when we are getting to the stage of 60fps then we can talk fine?? and tbh mate, we are hardly still in the new release stage are we?? six months has passed since then.......

i could show you rise of flight running at a constant 60 fps, during actual game play, not some silly black death benchmark,the old il2 also ran at 60 fps during game play, ya can have a full shaker of salt with this comment, watch you dont get any on ya though, you might melt :)

[JG52Krupi]

Lmao butt hurt rof fanboy I appreciate both games but rof has some flaws it's not my fault that your too blind to see this, but it's nice to have a taste of what bliss went through for simply for stating his opinion when he was with syn.

Like I said I support both games and some have things the other doesn't obviously rof has been out for a while now and is more polished.

It's your kind of utter bs that will drive a wedge between the two communities.

[RAF_Nudge]

your game runs "fine" nudge?? im sorry but i think your perception of fine and everyone else's must be out of whack, as looking at your screenshots there, the cpu and gfx card you have, there is no way the game would run "fine" on high settings, especially the settings your using, christ, if its true then we all need to build your system.

fine for me is 60 fps, locked at my vsync, what fps are you getting to state a fine performance??

Remember this is a dedicated game pc only there is no rubbish running in the backgound burning resources and causing latency issues of wich most may misinterpret as a graphics issue or lag. As for my in game perfomance I will endevour to post evidence of how well it runs on my system...My game is very playable although I have not yet checked framerates I imagine they are not more than average of 30fps the maximum the human brain/eye can register. However it is smooth to play even with those settings in nvidea settings as global settings..the only lagging i experience is from the servers online with regard to caching player skins and spawn lag...dont get me wrong of course the game is not up to standards and in my opinion yet to be of merchentable quality and as such should be a closed beta test..however its too late for that as this is the best possible way I think the developers can confront the ongoing battle with this development.

BUT THE POINT OF MY POST IS NOT ABOUT MY SYSTEM BUT ABOUT OTHERS...and there crash.dmp files and specs etc so the info can be used to address the short comings of the game....A WELL KNOWN FACT THESE SHORT COMINGS...(The developers already know all this what they need is constructive feedback with supporting evidence that they can use to move forward. But for some reason everyone continues to state the obvious without providing the info the developers have requested. YES post the issues you are having but also POST the info requested or dont be a part of the Beta testing for the patches PLAIN AND SIMPLE thats my point.

OK SYN_Repeat I havesearched all 47 of your posts, but alas not once have you provided any details with regards to usable info such as crash.dmp or even your system specs???????

As this is my point exactly, so I ask you this...what are your specs mate? And what game settings are you using with what results?

At least from us (All on these forums) doing this we can maybe try each others settings to see if we get the same results or different?

My bet is that you are using an ATI GPU?

For those having issues if you have a spare HDD try a clean Operating Sytem install and running the game from there.

[Vengeanze]

BUT THE POINT OF MY POST IS NOT ABOUT MY SYSTEM BUT ABOUT OTHERS...and there crash.dmp files and specs etc so the info can be used to address the short comings of the game....A WELL KNOWN FACT THESE SHORT COMINGS...(The developers already know all this what they need is constructive feedback with supporting evidence that they can use to move forward. But for some reason everyone continues to state the obvious without providing the info the developers have requested. YES post the issues you are having but also POST the info requested or dont be a part of the Beta testing for the patches PLAIN AND SIMPLE thats my point.
Have to agree even though I haven't sent anything to the devs.
Will better myself and try to do that tonite.
Luthier specifically asked us who experienced lowered fps to send him our specs.
I'll do that together with a list of things I think they need to address asap.

Then I'll come back and b!tch some more. ;-)

[Skoshi Tiger]

perhaps you read my comment wrong, but you admit that when we are getting to the stage of 60fps then we can talk fine?? and tbh mate, we are hardly still in the new release stage are we?? six months has passed since then.......

i could show you rise of flight running at a constant 60 fps, during actual game play, not some silly black death benchmark,the old il2 also ran at 60 fps during game play, ya can have a full shaker of salt with this comment, watch you dont get any on ya though, you might melt :)

I've got ROF and on my system there is no way I can get 60FPS consistently. If your saying that the benchmark for fine is a consistent 60FPS your telling me that ROF cannot be considered 'fine'!

Black Death is supposed to push a system. What is the ROF equivalent?

Oh! And the language! I work with troubled children and I expect the sort of language you have been using at work (I'm paid for putting up with it) But like a lot others, I use this forum as a form of recreation and basically the words you are using are offensive and are against the rules for the forum.
I sure you are mature enough to understand it is uncalled for.

Have a nice day!

[SYN_Repent]

Lmao butt hurt rof fanboy I appreciate both games but rof has some flaws it's not my fault that your too blind to see this, but it's nice to have a taste of what bliss went through for simply for stating his opinion when he was with syn.

Like I said I support both games and some have things the other doesn't obviously rof has been out for a while now and is more polished.

It's your kind of utter bs that will drive a wedge between the two communities.

im no RoF fan boy, i was an il2 fan, and recruited bliss into SYN based from that, your the one who started with the childish name calling, douche indeed, and what the hell do you know about what happened with bliss?? youve no balls mate, neither hairy nor crystal.

its not about being blind, are you still saying the 3d engine is ground breaking??

[Davy TASB]

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x69/Digital_Eon/gif/2vamw79.gif

:lol:

[SYN_Repent]

Black Death is supposed to push a system. What is the ROF equivalent?

Oh! And the language!

first of all, yes your right, its supposed to push a system, but its not gameplay is it?? mr.nudge is playing the game, with high settings, using a sub par system (compared to up to date components) and claims it runs "fine", and as i stated, what is his opinion of fine?



@ nudge, check my posts again mate, there are a few where i have stated my system specs, i have discussed ATI crossfire, in the last beta and before then i had the game running fairly well, not satisfied, but better than some of the poor souls on here who are truly dissapointed, and that is with ATI crossfire, my statement to you was that your opinion of fine using those settings and an inferior rig, and my settings which are lower, are different.

I7 870 @ 4.2ghz
2x ATI 4890 1GB crossfire (working @ 42% per card, varies with settings (scaling) )
8GB ram
24" monitor
win 7 64

nudge, explain to me what exactly is a dedicated gaming machine?? even an xbox or playstation isnt one of these anymore.

[robtek]

@Syn_Repent

It would be far more interesting if you could prove that it isn't ground breaking!

Proving!, not loud mouthing it isn't.

[JG52Krupi]

im no RoF fan boy, i was an il2 fan, and recruited bliss into SYN based from that, your the one who started with the childish name calling, douche indeed, and what the hell do you know about what happened with bliss?? youve no balls mate, neither hairy nor crystal.

its not about being blind, are you still saying the 3d engine is ground breaking??

Whatever dude. I was talking about the ground models they are fantastic and you were the guy that mentioned ground breaking not me.

Yeah yeah you have no balls lol this is a forum dude what the hell are you on...

And you are a douche if you think the ground models in rof can be compared to those in cod lmao...

[JG52Krupi]

In all honesty I haven't seen anything ground breaking in gaming for quite some time, in terms of rof and cod... The damage model visuals in rof and the detail in the cod cockpits are the only things that have left me slightly stunned... But ground breaking... nope, close yes, but I'm sure both games have surprises in store for us.

[MD_Titus]

Luthier bothers with the forum as he is obviously a masochist. That or his self-esteem is so mighty he feels the need to be brought back down a bit so comes here for a read.

Oh and ROF was pony in it's first 6 months of life. Good now, but i've not touched it since the implementatuon of field mods - don't like being gouged for money, especially after spending in excess of £100 in 18 months.

[spiritdmp]

I imagine they are not more than average of 30fps the maximum the human brain/eye can register

This just isn't true. It may depend on the person, or the game (or both) but some types of games with fast movement (first person shooters / driving games)
I can only play with much higher framerates.

Games (particularly console ones) locked at 30fps use film-like tricks such as motion blur to achieve the illusion of smooth movement. (This is coincidentally also why crysis was 'playable' for most people with frame rates in the 20s-30s)

http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm

[SYN_Repent]

krupi, check back a few pages, ace of aces was asking what was advertised what we havent got, the ground breaking 3d engine was advertised on two websites, the clod official, and ubisoft, you admitted yourself then that we aint got whats advertised in that respect and that its not ground breaking.

why do you keep bringing up RoF? why do you think im comparing ground models in clod to RoF, ive not mentioned that once, never have i said RoF models are superior either in number or quality, your just making that bs up....

lol, lmao, douche......its just a forum dude

[RAF_Nudge]

first of all, yes your right, its supposed to push a system, but its not gameplay is it?? mr.nudge is playing the game, with high settings, using a sub par system (compared to up to date components) and claims it runs "fine", and as i stated, what is his opinion of fine?



@ nudge, check my posts again mate, there are a few where i have stated my system specs, i have discussed ATI crossfire, in the last beta and before then i had the game running fairly well, not satisfied, but better than some of the poor souls on here who are truly dissapointed, and that is with ATI crossfire, my statement to you was that your opinion of fine using those settings and an inferior rig, and my settings which are lower, are different.

I7 870 @ 4.2ghz
2x ATI 4890 1GB crossfire (working @ 42% per card, varies with settings (scaling) )
8GB ram
24" monitor
win 7 64

nudge, explain to me what exactly is a dedicated gaming machine?? even an xbox or playstation isnt one of these anymore.

I only use the machine for games not surfing the net and downloading torrents etc i have two laptops and another desktop for that but this is way off topic in relation to my first post.

Once again...YOU HAVE COMPLETLEY MISSED THE POINT OF MY FIRST POST

But to answer the question of FPS I am getting an avg of 20fps with fraps on those settings with my system what are you getting with yours? If you are getting this or more then whats your problem are you have game locks/freezes/crashes? If so then I refer to the original reason and topic for my first post and ask why have you not uploaded crash dumps etc?

I was under the impression that the game did not support dual cards..so i guess this could be the root of your problem given the following info.

Pixel Rate
The GeForce GTX 550 Ti will be much (more or less 35%) more effective at FSAA than the Radeon HD 4890 1GB, and able to handle higher resolutions better. (explain)

GeForce GTX 550 Ti
21600 Mpixels/sec

Radeon HD 4890 1GB
16000 Mpixels/sec

Difference: 5600 (35%)

SOURCE: hwcompare.com

My game runs and is very playable online and off I did also notice that most of your posts are simply digs at others with no real constructive point other than creating conlict and friction amongst those on the forums...and therefore really don't contribute to the forums in a productive way!:evil:

[Trooper117]

I cannot believe the use of the language I've been seeing on these forums is beneficial to anyone.
Its the kind of foul mouthed jargon that I use when I'm with my platoon, grown men in a grown up enviroment with no kids present, and yes, children visit this forum.
Lets cut it out gents.

[nearmiss]

perhaps you read my comment wrong, but you admit that when we are getting to the stage of 60fps then we can talk fine?? and tbh mate, we are hardly still in the new release stage are we?? six months has passed since then.......

i could show you rise of flight running at a constant 60 fps, during actual game play, not some silly black death benchmark,the old il2 also ran at 60 fps during game play, ya can have a full shaker of salt with this comment, watch you dont get any on ya though, you might melt :)

It is one thing to dispense your worldly wisdom in a posting, quite another to always find a way to insult someone before you are done writing.

The insults you keep putting out are going to get you banned. The only reason I make this post is to let others with a similar literary skills to be forewarned.

Syn_Repent and JK52Krupi, next time you guys pull these kinds of stunts you'll get a ban for it. Yes, this posting isn't as bad as some, but the point is made.

A quote from previous poster - Gerbil Maximus, "We can disagree and discuss without the insults"