Gun Convergence

[Whiski]

I am having a little trouble setting a proper gun convergence.

Can someone tell me the best setting for this as I seem to be missing something. I either fall short of my setting or the lead merges past the point of what I expect it to merge.

Also, is it best to have different settings for each plane? Would I need different setting for the 109 as compared to the Spit? Does the game model the physical effects of different ammo types into the setting as well?

Thanks in advance and your help is much appreciated!

[trumps]

i think within reason it comes down to personal preference mate. i personally have my convergence all set at 150m, i like to get up nice and close, then give it to em. my main ride is the E-1, and it packs no more punch that the spit or the hurri, but as against the cannon armed 109's the rate of fire is good and the muzzle velocities are high so where you aim is where you hit. no matter what you decide on it is just a matter of practicing and knowing how much you need to lead your target to hit at your chosen convergence bearing in mind the weapons you are using. in my case with the close convergence a fighterpretty much fills the sight, and i dont need a huge amount of lead when firing from a position that is not dead astern due to the flight time of the round being so short.

Craig

[TomcatViP]

Use a lot of tracer (see your gun belt) to get quick habits to your specific guns convergence.

Don't worry abt the tracer being sighted by your enmy. 1 sec burst is usually enough to make some significant damages but too short for 90% of your target to react.

Mine is set at 250m as I am more concern with my own safety when I am dealing with bombers.

~S

[TomcatViP]

It seems as if the gun convergence effect is bugged just like in old Il2. The less distance you set the more the shotgun effect you get.

FAct shld be more balanced and vary with the gun your airplane is equipped. For example talking abt less than 150 m of convergence with engine cowling mounted MG is ridiculous. Just like achieving low range convergence in flight with guns mounted on the outboard section of flexible wing. The hit rate shld be corrected accordingly.

Cld we hve a min realistic value or is that alrdy implemented ? BEcause all that Cheesehawk said for example is out of the loop here with CoD for now... And IMHO it shld !

I know that Aces of old IL2 are attached to their conv parameters. But CoD is a step further into realism and new players won't bother the change. I hope devs cd make the correction . The direct benefits for them wold be in less intense testing to tweak down gunshot effect each time they introduce a new plane.

Pls use kinetic/Chemic approximation for guns destructive power corrected with ballistic and a rigidity ratio to approximate the hit rate.

Yesterday I was able to blew up a poor Stuka with my riffle mounted Hurri with a 1sec burst at 120m conv. I can see my bullets crossing at conv range each others then still hve a tremendous destructive power in the diverging part of their trajectory !!
~S!

[ATAG_Doc]

You can talk about this topic forever. It's all what your preference is just try different settings.

[madrebel]

I have a question, does anyone have minimum convergence data?

The only data I have ever herd of was for spitfires who's cannon couldn't be converged below iirc 220m. Ever since I read that I have been looking for minimums for various other aircraft and haven't seen anything.

Like for example 109s. I've seen flight sims allow for all kinds of convergence settings for the centerline guns that just don't seem plausible to me. how much can you really raise or lower that motor kanone? can those cowl MGs really be adjusted much? what about the Emil MGFFs? I would think there is a limit for how close you can converge them.

So yeah, if anyone has source data relating to minimum convergence for any warbird I would like to see it.

[reflected]

Can someone tell me WHERE and HOW you can set it up and save?
Setting up in the "plane" hangar works, I just can't save or load it.

[JG52Uther]

Can someone tell me WHERE and HOW you can set it up and save?
Setting up in the "plane" hangar works, I just can't save or load it.

I set it up when online, and save it with another name.

[TomcatViP]

You can talk about this topic forever. It's all what your preference is just try different settings.

The prob is that this way you can set surrealistic settings with fancy results.

I think that most of us here are fed up with that old Il-2 behavior and are expecting a little bit more with CoD on that point.

Tht's the point of resurrecting this thread. And for god sake spare me the "it's the pilot not the plane" that bunch of über Aces keep replying to the average young players that don't understand how the hell some can achieve what they can not even trying hard.

[VO101_Tom]

I have a question, does anyone have minimum convergence data?

The only data I have ever herd of was for spitfires who's cannon couldn't be converged below iirc 220m. Ever since I read that I have been looking for minimums for various other aircraft and haven't seen anything.

Like for example 109s. I've seen flight sims allow for all kinds of convergence settings for the centerline guns that just don't seem plausible to me. how much can you really raise or lower that motor kanone? can those cowl MGs really be adjusted much? what about the Emil MGFFs? I would think there is a limit for how close you can converge them.

So yeah, if anyone has source data relating to minimum convergence for any warbird I would like to see it.

Hi. I have no data from minimum values (i never try it), only the factory settings:
http://www.pumaszallas.hu/Private/VO101_Tom/bugtracker/E3_convergence.jpg

This canvas helps the convergence setting 400m (100m away from the aircraft):
http://www.pumaszallas.hu/Private/VO101_Tom/bugtracker/Anschiesscheibe.jpg

(source: BF 109 E1 E3 starre Schusswaffe. You can DL from here (http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/other-mechanical-systems-tech/new-bf-109-manuals-thread-17837-2.html) if interest)

It can be found in the game, unfortunately, can not be used in the normal way :rolleyes:
http://www.pumaszallas.hu/Private/VO101_Tom/bugtracker/f195_shooting_range_1.jpg

http://www.pumaszallas.hu/Private/VO101_Tom/bugtracker/f195_shooting_range_1b.jpg

http://www.pumaszallas.hu/Private/VO101_Tom/bugtracker/f195_shooting_range_2.jpg

http://www.pumaszallas.hu/Private/VO101_Tom/bugtracker/f195_shooting_range_3.jpg

[II./JG1_Wilcke]

VO101 Tom,

Well done, great post been looking for documentation like that for awhile!

I wish the devs would have added an ingame screen where one could setup the aircraft and actually shoot at a target and then analyze the hits.

I see that we have horizontal and vertical convergance, do both those numbers have to match?

[SEE]

I don't know what the minimum convergences are Tomcat but something very odd has happened regards convergence with the last patch. I have been testing convergence and I am able to destroy (not damage) enemy ac out of my current convergence setting of 170m. Analysing the recordings I made seem to suggest that my convergence is default 300m even though set to 170m.

Either that or there has been a change in damage modelling where the introduction of ordinance deflecting off hard surfaces is striking vulnerable areas. I will stitch the vids together and see what you and others think but something is definitely odd or different.

[SEE]

Can someone tell me WHERE and HOW you can set it up and save?
Setting up in the "plane" hangar works, I just can't save or load it.

I don't do it in the Hangar, convergence for each ac is in the 'User' file which you can quickly edit using notepad. There are two 'User' ini files - one is in the 1c Publishing game install directory and another in the 'Steamapps' directory. I copy and paste my revised one into the steam apps as I think one is used for MP and the other for SP.

[VO101_Tom]

VO101 Tom,
Well done, great post been looking for documentation like that for awhile!

Thx. Take a look at that page, there are still many interesting documents (LW and Allied types as well). In addition there are two site, where a lot of similar stuff in (On these pages you need to pay, but much more document are available. Particularly the Hafner site):
www.luftfahrt-archiv-hafner.de (http://www.luftfahrt-archiv-hafner.de/)
www.cockpitinstumente.de (http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/archiv-englisch/dokumente/web/new%20site/frames2/Dokumente.htm)

I wish the devs would have added an ingame screen where one could setup the aircraft and actually shoot at a target and then analyze the hits.
It would be useful to measure. But I suspect that the spray pattern compared to photos, we would cry :rolleyes:

I see that we have horizontal and vertical convergance, do both those numbers have to match?
The 109 convergence should be (based of this document):
MG-FF horizontal: 200m, vertical: 400m
MG-17 horizontal and vertical: 400m

[madrebel]

thanks tom, i think i may have a 190 document very similar to that one. if i find it i'll post for comparisons.

does it seem odd to anyone else that minimum convergence isn't really known? maybe its just me idk.

[VO101_Tom]

thanks tom, i think i may have a 190 document very similar to that one. if i find it i'll post for comparisons.
This one? :)

http://iaro.3dmax.hu/images/2011/11/07/anlage3.jpg
http://iaro.3dmax.hu/images/2011/11/07/anlage2.jpg

[madrebel]

possibly yes.

[5./JG27.Farber]

I just use 200 on MG's and 100 on cannons...

[VO101_Tom]

I just use 200 on MG's and 100 on cannons...

100? Are you satisfied with it? It's almost Taran :)
My squad mate set his MG-FF convergence to 150m, but we clearly see the disadvantages in 1v1 combat. You lost the opportunity, to hit from long distance (if the 300 m means "long" ;) ).

[5./JG27.Farber]

I dont fire beyond 110 metres with cannon.... Its a waste of ammo (- in my opinion) I wish I could set them for about 80m's...

I would say 300 is extreme range. 200 is long and 100 medium...

What is Taran?

[VO101_Tom]

What is Taran?

Russian word for Aerial ramming (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_ramming).

[335th_GRAthos]

It can be found in the game, unfortunately, can not be used in the normal way :rolleyes:
http://iaro.3dmax.hu/images/2011/11/07/shot_20111107_163309.jpg


This is frigging awesome!

So much detailed work these 1c guys!!!!!! I love to hate them! :D

~S~

[jimbop]

Damn, I'd like to use that if it ever gets fixed up!

[Ataros]

I recommend trying these settings which are a modified version of historical ones shown above. They made a difference to me.

The convergences are reverted in game. Horizontal is vertical, vertical is horizontal.

So if u want to watch tracers' direction as mine then ur convergences should be as follows.
The convergences as it are shown in the game:
109E1 - head guns: vert-150, horiz-400
wing guns: vert-150, horiz-600
109E3/4 - head guns: vert-150, horiz-400
wing cannons: vert-150, horiz-500.

For Spit/Hurry try 109E1 settings or increase vert to 200-250 (ingame figures which are mixed up in the current version).

[jimbop]

Thanks Ataros, I missed that post.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Russian word for Aerial ramming (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_ramming).

Ahh ok, thanks. Yes I get close.

[Varrattu]

The 109 convergence should be (based of this document):
MG-FF horizontal: 200m, vertical: 400m
MG-17 horizontal and vertical: 400m

Referring the aircraft.ini, iL2CoD-v1.05.15950, the standard convergence for all BF109E is defined as follows:

nose mounted MG 2x Rheinmetall-Borsig MG 17 (7.92mm)
vertical convergence == 400 m (Visierschuss)
horizontal convergence == 420 m (Kreuzung)

wing mounted MG 2x Rheinmetall-Borsig MG 17 (7.92mm)
vertical convergence == 500 m (Visierschuss)
horizontal convergence == 300 m (Kreuzung)

wing mounted MG 2x Oerlikon/Ikaria MG FF (20mm)
vertical convergence == 500 m (Visierschuss)
horizontal convergence == 300 m (Kreuzung)

wing mounted MG 2x Oerlikon/Ikaria MG FF/M (20mm)
vertical convergence == 500 m (Visierschuss)
horizontal convergence == 300 m (Kreuzung)

~S~ Varrattu ;)

[VO101_Tom]

Referring the aircraft.ini, iL2CoD-v1.05.15950, the standard convergence for all BF109E is defined as follows:

nose mounted MG 2x Rheinmetall-Borsig MG 17 (7.92mm)
vertical convergence == 400 m (Visierschuss)
horizontal convergence == 420 m (Kreuzung)

wing mounted MG 2x Rheinmetall-Borsig MG 17 (7.92mm)
vertical convergence == 500 m (Visierschuss)
horizontal convergence == 300 m (Kreuzung)

wing mounted MG 2x Oerlikon/Ikaria MG FF (20mm)
vertical convergence == 500 m (Visierschuss)
horizontal convergence == 300 m (Kreuzung)

wing mounted MG 2x Oerlikon/Ikaria MG FF/M (20mm)
vertical convergence == 500 m (Visierschuss)
horizontal convergence == 300 m (Kreuzung)

~S~ Varrattu ;)

Hi. Interesting vaules :rolleyes:
(where is this file? It's a some kind of cracking stuff?)

[Varrattu]

Hi. Interesting vaules :rolleyes:
(where is this file? It's a some kind of cracking stuff?)

OT: The aircraft.ini like other files is stored in the SFS-filesystem. SFS-files are used for creating installer archives and software distributions. Reading a SFS-file / SFS-archive has nothing to do with hacking, cracking, patching, cheating or whatever ... ...

~S~ Varrattu

[28_Condor]

Hi!

I'm a little confused about what value to put in the game: meters or yards?

I ask because we need to put the the range to taget (convergence) in order to hit your target:

http://jimeez.weebly.com/setting-the-gunsight.html

If the convergence is in meters then first need to convert this measure in yards.

Another question: is still necessary to put in double the convergence on gunsight?

[TomcatViP]

Hi!

I'm a little confused about what value to put in the game: meters or yards?

I ask because we need to put the the range to taget (convergence) in order to hit your target:

http://jimeez.weebly.com/setting-the-gunsight.html

If the convergence is in meters then first need to convert this measure in yards.

Another question: is still necessary to put in double the convergence on gunsight?


Meter in the blue plane
Yards in the red planes

I don't think what is said on the link is true. Mine is setted at 250 yards for a 32ft wingspan on the Hurri and works fine that way.

[Al Schlageter]

Hi!

I'm a little confused about what value to put in the game: meters or yards?

I ask because we need to put the the range to taget (convergence) in order to hit your target:

http://jimeez.weebly.com/setting-the-gunsight.html

If the convergence is in meters then first need to convert this measure in yards.

Another question: is still necessary to put in double the convergence on gunsight?

Why bother to convert as a meter and a yard are almost the same distance.

200m = 218yd

[jimbop]

And you don't need to double any more. That bug was fixed.