May day, somebody help me please!!!

[Flanker1985]

Hi, Guys. I have just bought this game a few days ago. But I have found this game is much more complex than the previous IL-2. Back in IL-2:1946, all we need to do is watch our atitude and speed, manifold pressure, RPM and our verticle velocity. But this one is so complex that I have no idea what else I need to know in order to fly. For example my engine often end up with "water Radiator Perforated". What does that mean??? What did I do wrong?
Also my engine often have other issues as well, sometimes I can't even start up.

This is the most realistic piston engine plane simulation I have even known. And I really want to learn. Can any one please teach me how to fly it apprepriately and what gadget else do I need to watch out for??

Thanks a lot. Really appreciate if someone can help me.

[CH_RoadDogg]

In the 109 Preflight I open the radiator half way, set oil radiator to one third,set prop pitch to 12 oclock,open fuel cock,turn on magnetoes, start engine.

Take off full throttle and when in air leave full throttle and adjust rpms with prop pitch watch rpm gauge keep rpms at mark on gauge with prop pitch and you should have no problems flying 109 at them settings.

[VO101_Tom]

The manual is here:

"C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\il-2 sturmovik cliffs of dover\manual\IL2CoD_MANUAL_UK.pdf"

It explains the basis things very well... read all!

[Flanker1985]

Hi, thanks guys.
But that manual offers very little detail.
For example when I start the engine, if I just push the thrust all the way, the engine will stall. Can anyone tell me why. And when I flying the aircraft, my engine will starts trouble all the time. Sometimes it says "water Radiator Perforated", which I have no idea what does that mean. Sometimes I just see smoke come out of the engine and I started to loss manifold press. And sometimes all of a suddent, the oil started to leak all over my cockpit. I have no idea why and what should I do and what didn't I do.

Also, unlike the previous IL-2 game, the mix was easy. But in this game, just one wrong mix setting and my engine could end up on fire -- literally. How do I know when do I re-adjust them, plus every plane are different.

And what's the difference between the "radiator" and the "oil radiator"?

Can you please teach me?? Thanks very much

[Razor]

Yes, the manual unfortunately doesn't go into detail on these things. There is however an extremely useful guide to flying the various aircraft here:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=24547

[Troll2k]

You have two radiators.A water radiator(engine cooling) and an oil radiator(oil cooling).

Water radiator perforated probably means it got too hot and and sprung a leak(poor Russian translation).

[VO101_Tom]

Hi, thanks guys.
But that manual offers very little detail.
For example when I start the engine, if I just push the thrust all the way, the engine will stall. Can anyone tell me why. And when I flying the aircraft, my engine will starts trouble all the time. Sometimes it says "water Radiator Perforated", which I have no idea what does that mean. Sometimes I just see smoke come out of the engine and I started to loss manifold press. And sometimes all of a suddent, the oil started to leak all over my cockpit. I have no idea why and what should I do and what didn't I do.

Also, unlike the previous IL-2 game, the mix was easy. But in this game, just one wrong mix setting and my engine could end up on fire -- literally. How do I know when do I re-adjust them, plus every plane are different.

And what's the difference between the "radiator" and the "oil radiator"?

Can you please teach me?? Thanks very much

Water radiator perforated, because the water overheated (you should open the water radiator), and the system went to pieces, because of huge pressure. The oil system is the same. You have to check the gauges in cockpit, and maintain the values in operating limit.

The engine has important limitations too, rpm, manifold pressure, emergency boost, etc, what it is necessary to pay attention to (these limits are written down in the manual "Flying the planes" section).

It writes a couple of words about the rest of the equipments, under the "controls" section. If it is not enough, look it up on the wikipedia. From basic things, like this, you find very detailed, illustrated explanations there.

You may ask it here, if you have an specific question. But if you ask it, to teach everything, because you don't know anything... this will not work.

[Blackdog_kt]

If you want to know the basics of piston engines, i suggest you go to www.a2asimulations.com and take a look at their manuals.

They make payware add-on aircraft for microsoft FSX and some of them have an extra add-on module called accusim that gives the player more realistic engine operation.

How does that help us you might say. Well, for one, the general principles of piston engine operation are the same.

Second, you don't need to buy one of their products to read the manuals, they are freely available as a PDF download.

Just make sure you are reading the accusim manuals and not "base pack" manuals that only cover the general aircraft characteristics.
The accusim manuals start with a general preface on piston engines regardless of what add-on aircraft they are dealing with, then they move into the specifics.

For example, here is the manual for their P-47: http://www.a2asimulations.com/wingsofpower/wop3_p47/downloads/P47_Accusim_Manual.pdf

A more useful one in our case would be their Spitfire manual, which you can find here: http://www.a2asimulations.com/wingsofpower/spitfire/WOP3_Spitfire_Accusim_Manual.zip

This pretty much has the same preface about general engine operation principles, then goes into more length about the Spitfire in particular.

I don't own a copy of FSX but i fly it from time to time on a friend's PC when i visit him, he's got a lot of well done 3rd party add-ons and that's how i learned CEM in the first place. When CoD was released i was able to just jump in right away because i knew the basics from my few FSX flights.

In fact, you'll find that because of the specialized nature of FSX add-ons (a single aircraft can sell for as much as cliffs of dover does), some have a lot more detailed and restrictions modeled than even our very well done aircraft in CoD: a lot of what you'll read in that spitfire manual might refer to cockpit controls that you can't interact with in CoD.

Never the less, it makes for some good reading and will have you up and running pretty soon.

My advice would be to:

1) Read these manuals.

2) Launch CoD, go to the QMB and start a free flight mission with an aircraft of your choice. You will spawn in the air, start at moderate power and full open radiators, then gradually increase power while closing radiators. If you do this right, the effect of your increased speed (more power and less drag from the rads) will be increased airflow and this in turn brings more cooling: you might end up being able to get away with lower radiator usage despite the higher power settings.
Just focus on seeing how much power you can apply with the least amount of drag imposed on you through radiators.

3) Go to the QMB and start the cross country mission. There's a nasty crosswind in that mission which will pull you to the right, but it's a stock ground start mission. Use this to practice how to turn on the engine, warm up and do some take-offs and landings or touch and go maneuvers.

Stick with one aircraft for an hour or two and you'll be comfortable enough to select a combat mission in the FMB to see how it all applies to combat ;-)

[JG52Uther]

Good advise from Blackdog ,but I would say an hour is not enough with one aircraft.Pick just one ,your favourite, and just try to learn it.
I have spent hours in the 109, and still mess up the engine sometimes. Today I did the cross country ground start mission in the He111, one of my favourites from il2, and was very happy that I managed to get it off the ground ,keep it in the air,and actually land it!
But, I know I was very inefficient in doing it, so obviously a lot more time needed! The work load on the pilots of a WW2 bomber must have been immense.
Even though I have had CoD for about 5 months now, I have not gone anywhere near most of the planes.Just too much to learn with one plane, and thats as it should be.

[Flanker1985]

Wow!!! That is a lot of details!!! Thanks a lot guys!!!! I just love you guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By the way, does anyone know that when would the eastern front version of this game come out?? Mr JG52Uther mentioned I should just train myself on my favourite plane. My favourite earlier war plane is the MiG-3 series， and middle war plane is the La-5 series and the late war plane is the La-7 series. So it is actually not in yet. Since this game is still called the "IL-2", so I was just thinking they would still make IL-2 into the game along with the Soviet, right. If anyone know about it, can you please let me know?? Thanks, much appreciated.

Thanks again for the help upthere. Now I know a lot. If you guys have a facebook account, please let me know and I'll add you guys.

[Flanker1985]

By the way, what hardware are you guys using?? I have a due core, 4GB ram and a GTX460. Almost enough to run the "wing of prey" on maxium setting. But it is still a bit slow when my setting on the COD is minium.

[NedLynch]

In my experience clouds on in realism settings gives you a big fps hit as well as shadows on in video settings and of course you have the anti-epilepsy filter off.
Announced yesterday the next update will bring improvements as well.

Oh, and what operating system do you have?

[Flanker1985]

In my experience clouds on in realism settings gives you a big fps hit as well as shadows on in video settings and of course you have the anti-epilepsy filter off.
Announced yesterday the next update will bring improvements as well.

Oh, and what operating system do you have?

My operating system is a Win 7 64bit

[NedLynch]

exellent :grin:

Btw., toggle the mirrors in the Spitfire and Hurricane off as well.

[Flanker1985]

Hey, Guys. I just found a few more button, can anyone please tell me what are they?? Thanks a lot.

The first thing is the "Fuel content Gauge selector", and this is not the same with the fuelcock, and I have not yet used it. So I have no idea what's its for??

"Slow-Running Cut out", this is not the same with the boost cut out, I tried to press it a few times, nothing happened.

"Operate hand pump", is this the fuel pump?? How come we never get to use it??

"Pilot Heater", is this an air condition?? What's so important to have an air condition since we are flying to outside the computer???

Also does anyone know where is the ignition key "I" in the cockpit?? I can't find it anywhere. And everytime I have to shut down the engine by cut the fuelcock.

[Blackdog_kt]

The first thing is the "Fuel content Gauge selector", and this is not the same with the fuelcock, and I have not yet used it. So I have no idea what's its for??

This is not for selecting which fuel tank to draw fuel from (that is the fuel cock) as you've found out, it's for selecting which tank's contents will be displayed on the instruments. For example, bombers like the Blenheim and Ju88 have multiple fuel tanks but only one set of fuel gauges. Using this control you can select which tank's remaining fuel the gauge will display.

It's one of those secondary controls that are not "time critical" (things that i don't use in the middle of combat) so i don't map them directly to keys, i just click on them in the cockpit with the mouse.



"Slow-Running Cut out", this is not the same with the boost cut out, I tried to press it a few times, nothing happened.

This is used to shut down the engine in RAF aircraft after landing. I think you need to press and hold the key down for a couple of seconds. Once the propeller stops turning you can shut off the fuel cock and magnetos too.


"Operate hand pump", is this the fuel pump?? How come we never get to use it??

From whatever kind of testing i've done, it seems to me that it's not a fuel primer pump that is used for starting the engine, but an emergency pump used to lower flaps/gear when things like hydraulics fail. For example, to lower gear in the 109 after a failure, first you enable the emergency gear mechanism (there's a separate lever for that and also a keybinding if you want to assign a key to it), then you set the gear lever to lower gear (just like you would do for normal extension) and finally, you start clicking on the pump or pressing the key you've mapped to it.

Similar mechanisms exist in other aircraft as well, for example the Spitifre. Some are hydraulic in nature and some pneumatic.


"Pilot Heater", is this an air condition?? What's so important to have an air condition since we are flying to outside the computer???

This is actually a pitot heater, not a pilot heater ;-)
When flying near or through clouds and the temperatures are low, it's possible for the pitot tube to get clogged up by ice particles. Your airspeed indicator and your altimeter work by measuring outside air pressure through the pitot tube, if the tube is iced up you get incorrect data displayed on your instruments. Turning on the pitot heater gets rid of the ice and ensures you have accurate instruments.



Also does anyone know where is the ignition key "I" in the cockpit?? I can't find it anywhere. And everytime I have to shut down the engine by cut the fuelcock.

The reason the "I" key exists is that while most aircraft have a similar set of start-up actions to perform (turning on the fuel supply, magnetos, etc), most of the aircraft of the time had very different starters to turn the engine around and help it start.

To run an engine you need a fuel supply, ignition (spark plugs and magnetos) and air. To make it start however, you need a way to overcome the piston's compression and make it turn a couple of times, then all those things come together and once a first burn cycle occurs the engine can then start and turn on its own. This is the job of the starter.

Some aircraft used direct drive systems, others used inertial starters (a flywheel being spun up to high RPM, then coupled to the engine drive via a clutch), yet others used a hybrid of both, some used external sources (ground crew vehicles) and even firing blank shotgun cartridges (this was how most spitfires started, except maybe the Mk.I which had a pneumatic reservoir).

There was also a lot of variation on where the power came from to energize the starter: common systems were on-board battery power or external power via support vehicles/ground crew generators, but it was not uncommon to have manual systems too.

For example, the 109 had an inertial starter but batteries were heavy back then, so they didn't install a battery powerful enough to sufficiently spin up the starter in order to save weight. It was actually the mechanics/ground crew that did it manually with a hand-operated crank, then the pilot engaged the clutch that coupled the spinning flywheel to the engine drive and the engine would turn and start.
If you've ever seen wartime films of luftwaffe personnel in black uniforms running to a line of 109s, inserting a hand-crank into the cowling and turning it like mad, this is exactly what they did.

In yet other cases things were more complicated. To start the Blenheim, the mechanics would be standing next to the engine cowlings to turn the starter magneto on/off as needed and operate the priming pump (the pilot didn't have the necessary controls installed in the cockpit, they were only found on the engine nacelles).

As you can see, the variation is so great that it would take a lot of work to simulate 100% and it would probably need a separate command menu (like the radio commands for wingmen) just to talk to the ground crew :-P

So they decided to go for a middle-of-the-road solution and give us the necessary controls to do what needs to be done up until the starter is engaged (setting the radiators, turning on the fuel, etc), while replacing all the variations in terms of starters with the "I" key to keep things manageable.

In other words, the "I" key represents engaging the starter but since there were so many different kinds of them and many required even more separate steps and possibly coordination with the ground crew, you won't find the equivalent of an "I" key in the cockpit.

[VO101_Tom]

Hey, Guys. I just found a few more button, can anyone please tell me what are they?? ...

Hi

Hand pump. You should pump some pressure to fuel system, before the engine start. This is out of order currently, it does not have significance in the game.

No "ignition" button in the cocpit, only the keyboard. In the 109, this switch would be here ( i ): click (http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5955/nomix109e1.jpg) You should stop the engine with magnetos. Switch them off, and the engine stopped.

Pitot heater, no pilot heater. Pitot tube - wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitot_tube) :) Here is a youtube video: click (http://youtu.be/z4Blu_Y1qtY) This pipe may freeze up if you are flying in humid, cold time. Shows on the video, that the speed-indicator, and the altimeter shows a wrong value. The heating prevents this, what may switch on.

[JG52Uther]

For example, to lower gear in the 109 after a failure, first you enable the emergency gear mechanism (there's a separate lever for that and also a keybinding if you want to assign a key to it), then you set the gear lever to lower gear (just like you would do for normal extension) and finally, you start clicking on the pump or pressing the key you've mapped to it.




I learn something new every day here! I have pulled the lever a few times just to see if the gear would drop, now I know why it didn't work!

[VO101_Tom]

From whatever kind of testing i've done, it seems to me that it's not a fuel primer pump that is used for starting the engine, but an emergency pump used to lower flaps/gear when things like hydraulics fail. For example, to lower gear in the 109 after a failure, first you enable the emergency gear mechanism (there's a separate lever for that and also a keybinding if you want to assign a key to it), then you set the gear lever to lower gear (just like you would do for normal extension) and finally, you start clicking on the pump or pressing the key you've mapped to it.


Hi.
Excellent summary, but I would have a question. Were is the hidraulic emegrency pump in 109? I know only the fuel pump... i dont think, that the hidraulic and fuel system used same lever...

For example, the 109 had an inertial starter but batteries were heavy back then, so they didn't install a battery powerful enough to sufficiently spin up the starter in order to save weight. It was actually the mechanics/ground crew that did it manually with a hand-operated crank, then the pilot engaged the clutch that coupled the spinning flywheel to the engine drive and the engine would turn and start.
If you've ever seen wartime films of luftwaffe personnel in black uniforms running to a line of 109s, inserting a hand-crank into the cowling and turning it like mad, this is exactly what they did.
...
In other words, the "I" key represents engaging the starter but since there were so many different kinds of them and many required even more separate steps and possibly coordination with the ground crew, you won't find the equivalent of an "I" key in the cockpit.

This is true partly only. The 109 ignition switch is there, where it is on the drawing. But you are right, a couple of steps are missing yet for the starting procedures (electric system switch, fuel pressure, oil pressure, flywheel, etc).

[Blackdog_kt]

Hi.
Excellent summary, but I would have a question. Were is the hidraulic emegrency pump in 109? I know only the fuel pump... i dont think, that the hidraulic and fuel system used same lever...


I've only found one pump in the cockpit (the one with the yellow handle, lower right of the instrument panel). I don't know if it's supposed to be a fuel pump but in the sim it seems to work as a gear pump.

[Flanker1985]

THanks guys!!! That's more detail than I imagined.

??? What??!!
Are you guys saying that in the Cliff of Dover, not everything are simulated?? That they still simplfied a few things??

[VO101_Tom]

??? What??!!
Are you guys saying that in the Cliff of Dover, not everything are simulated?? That they still simplfied a few things??

The game already very detailed, but yes, things were simplified, or omitted... isn't ready yet, but the developers working on it.

[VO101_Tom]

Not sure if its something left out or simplied, or simply a function we have no use for yet. I think I read somewhere that the hand pump was for fuel, but only necessary in cold weather (not sure why). So perhaps, due to the current game being France in the summer, it just something we don't see functioning.

There are special procedures onto a cold start, but it not concerns the fuel pressure. At every engine start, in all weather, you should use the fuel pump, if the fuel pressure under 0,5 atü (~0,5 kg/cm2) (in the E manual 0,5 atü, in the G-2 manual 0,3 atü).
Later (for example in G-2), you have electric fuel pump, but you can access the manual fuel pump through the inspection hatch underneath the forward section of the fuselage.

The gear emergency opening:
I just now tested, the manual pump helps the emergency opening in the game really. The notzug "system" is a simple cable, which releases a lock. The gear falls out with the help of the gravity if there is not oil pressure already in the cylinder. Anyway, not exist manual pump in the hydraulics system (one pump is on the engine), but has exist in the fuel system.
This is a bug then...

[Flanker1985]

Thanks guys for the patiently explainations, but now I have a few more stupid questions.

Due to my only piston engine plane experience was in the IL-2 forgoten battle and 1946. There were a lot of thing were not important back then but they are important now.
For exapmle, what is the differences between the oil pressure and the fuel pressure?? And what is the difference between the oil Temperature and the fuel Temperature?? All of them didn't seems important back then. Plus there are Oxygen Altitude and Oxygen Quantity, they didn't seem working in the COD.
And there are Voltmeter and Ammeter, there were there since the original IL-2. But didn't seem do anything.

[Blackdog_kt]

Oxygen indicators concern the pilot. Currently not functional, hopefully we'll get it at some point (it limits the amount of time one can fly at high altitudes).
Usually, the pilot would set his altitude and a semi-automatic system would maintain the correct oxygen ratio, but it was also possible to go to full oxygen for high-G maneuvering (i think it improves G tolerance/diminishes adverse G effects).

For example in the RAF fighters there are two gauges, one is the set altitude (changed by the butterfly valve) and the other is the amount of oxygen remaining.

The voltmeter measures the voltage of the on-board battery, it's an indication of your battery capacity.

The Ammeter measures how much electrical current passes through the instrument. Depending on where the instrument is located within the circuit, it could be measuring how much current is produced (if it's wired directly after the generator) or how much current actually reaches the battery (if it's wired right before the battery).

I think most of the times they were wiring it the second way to show "surplus" current, that is, the left-over amperage that reaches the battery after all of the electrical systems have taken their draw. This is useful for two reasons:
a) you can see if your battery is charging or discharging (in the event of negative amperage)
b) you can judge failures in electrical systems by seeing if turning things on results in a drop of indicated amperage.

Let's say we're flying an aircraft with electrically operated flaps, like the Fw-190. If we try to move the flaps and the ammeter is wired to show "surplus" current, then the indication should drop because the flaps draw some current and less amperage reaches the battery. If the indicator stays steady, then it's either a malfunction in the instrument itself or the flaps have failed and are not drawing power at all.

All this is extra useful in cases of generator failure (which can itself be judged if the amperage is abnormally low or negative and the voltmeter is decreasing when electrical systems are used), because the amount of battery capacity can be the difference between having your flaps usable for landing or not. Flying with a failed generator would indicate zero amperage if all electrical systems are shut off and negative values if anything electrical was turned on. In the second case, the voltmeter indication would gradually decline as well.

Correlating the data between the two, the pilot would turn off as many electrical systems as possible to keep the amperage as close to zero as possible (neither charging, since our generator has failed, nor discharging). Then, when setting up for the approach the pilot would check the voltmeter to see if the battery has enough "juice" to lower his electrically operated flaps.


I'm not entirely sure but i think the ammeter is functional in the RAF aircraft (haven't tested electrical systems much so i can't say about other aircraft). For example try turning on the lights, it might indicate a tiny drop.

[Flanker1985]

Thanks guys. Now I know everything I needed. All I need to do now is remember everything you guys told me and no more embarrase movement for me.

Thanks again and let's keep in touch.

I hope this thread can be of help for other pilots who are fresh out of the IL-2:1946 too.

[Varrattu]

The gear emergency opening:
... ... The gear falls out with the help of the gravity if there is not oil pressure already in the cylinder. Anyway, not exist manual pump in the hydraulics system (one pump is on the engine), but has exist in the fuel system.
This is a bug then...

Your findings are confirmed by the manual "BF109E Betriebs- u. Rüstanleitung", page 10, "Fahrwerknotauslösung bei Versagen der Öldruckanlage"

S! Varrattu

[mvsarturi]

Thank you for providing the link for the manual Blackdog, very interesting reading.

[VO101_Tom]

Thank you for providing the link for the manual Blackdog, very interesting reading.

If interest the technical publications like this, I suggest it then browse on this sites:
Luftfahrt-Archiv Hafner (http://www.luftfahrt-archiv-hafner.de/)
Deutscheluftwaffe.de/Archiv documents (http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/archiv/Dokumente/web/new%20site/frames2/Dokumente.htm)

Possible to find free downloads on the internet, but these a very detailed, superb lists.

[CrisGer]

Thank you all very much for these details they help a great deal for a Pilot Candidate like myself. Much appreciated.

[mvsarturi]

Nice, I'll take a look, thanks Tom.