controls damaged yet trim works

[jojovtx]

Was flying online in a 110C7 and lost my aileron controls to a flak burst. Was able to maintain use of aileron/roll via trim buttons. Maybe a bug or is it a feature?

[TUCKIE_JG52]

Same here, but on Bf110's elevator. Got it damaged and trim still work very effectively...

[Sauf]

I think its a feature, I lost elevators from a flak hit on the SYN server bout 3 weeks ago in a 109 and managed to make it back to France using the trim but yesterday got shot up by a spit and it didnt work at all. I put it down to trim being controlled by a secondry cable(?) to the stick and the spit damaging both, could be wrong but that was my take on it. Maybe Kurfurst or someone can shed some more light on the actual control setups in the 109/110.

[VO101_Tom]

... or someone can shed some more light on the actual control setups in the 109/110.

A drawing is from the Bf 109-E and Bf 110-B manual. The Trimm and the elevator have separate control.
http://www.pumaszallas.hu//Private/VO101_Tom/Bf109E_control.jpg
http://www.pumaszallas.hu//Private/VO101_Tom/Bf110B_control.jpg
http://www.pumaszallas.hu//Private/VO101_Tom/Bf110B_trimm.jpg

[jojovtx]

Very cool that it is a feature. At the risk of sounding like a Fanboi we got to think that if they take the time to detail the trim control cable separately that it must be incredibly complex to make a single change to the code without effecting countless other details.

[IvanK]

In the case of the 109 the trim wheel moves the horizontal stab not a tab on the elevator surface itself. A damaged Elevator cable would result in most cases of the elevator surface "streamlining" itself. If that was the case and the Trim/stab controls were undamaged then pitch control via trim (via the stab) might still be possible.

[JimmyBlonde]

This is an excellent feature. I always loathed the lack of redundancy in the 1946 control DM modelling since trim is a separate system to the control surface itself.

+1 to the Like column for CoD.

PS. Is the trim control absent when the actual control surface is shot away entirely?

[drewpee]

Its hard to say if its attentional or not, time will tell. It's been a bit of a cheat in the IL2 series where if you black out from high Gs you can pull up from a dive using your trim.

[IvanK]

Its hard to say if its attentional or not, time will tell. It's been a bit of a cheat in the IL2 series where if you black out from high Gs you can pull up from a dive using your trim.

No cheat at all. If you are "Blacked out" you can still smell,touch hear and feel ... you just cant see, so control input is still possible. If you go to the G LOC stage then control input is not possible.

[335th_GRAthos]

A drawing is from the Bf 109-E and Bf 110-B manual. The Trimm and the elevator have separate control.

Impressive! Thanks for posting this information Tom!

Poor guys of the service team (counting the number of points they have to spread fat on...).

~S~

[pupo162]

yo ucna still trim out of a G blackout in Clod :rolleyes:

[zipper]

In the case of the 109 the trim wheel moves the horizontal stab not a tab on the elevator surface itself. A damaged Elevator cable would result in most cases of the elevator surface "streamlining" itself. If that was the case and the Trim/stab controls were undamaged then pitch control via trim (via the stab) might still be possible.


During the battle of Midway, Ensign Albert K. Earnest flying Grumman TBF-1 (Bureau # 00380 - the very first production TBF off the assembly line!) of VT-8 (Midway Island) was one of the first of the Midway launched attackers to suffer damage, among other things losing his elevator control. After leaving formation to aim at the nearest Japanese picket ship and drop his torpedo he prepared for the inevitable ditching due to the lack of pitch control and, after instinctively re-trimming for impact, discovered he had pitch control after all. After a long, round-about flight back to Midway he managed to land the second time around (He figured the LSO, still waving frantically, was just going to have to be ignored) with the right landing gear still retracted. The plane was shipped back to North Island Naval Base, San Diego where it was closely examined by Army and Navy engineers and the major aircraft manufacturers. The plane wound up in the back of a hangar gathering dust until, sometime in 1945, some "body" (a chief? an officer? who knows?) decided to scrap it during a base-wide clean-up. I hope they scored well during THAT inspection! In the link below are the pictures of this aircraft at Midway. Worth noting are the tarp that had been used to cover the body of Seaman 1st Class Jay D. Manning in the turret, damage to the underside of the wingtip caused during landing and, germane to the discussion, the position of the elevator trim tab - full nose up - pitch (actually, rate of descent) on final then being controlled by power. The German fighters, as noted by others, use a trimmable stab (just like J-3s and airliners), the 109 manually and the 190 electrically. It always bothered me how losing the controls would cause the loss of trim in the game.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/events/wwii-pac/midway/mid-4a.htm

"A Dawn Like Thunder" is a good book. :D

[Strike]

As an aircraft mechanic I claim with great self-appointed justice and knowledge that this is indeed a feature! :p

As long as the elevator control cables/rods aren't jamming the elevator control surface, or it is stuck in any other way, the trim-surfaces should provide enough force on the elevator control surface to move it aerodynamically.

Some modern designs have "servo control surfaces" that are there as a relief for the pilot to lessen the force needed to deflect the controls.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Control-tab.png

Whilst some aircraft designs use this as a primary control feature, the same operational parameters could indeed be applied to the aircraft trim-tab such as seen on the 110 or the adjustable tailplane on the 109. Disadvantage is that the control method isn't very responsive and will vary with airspeed.

By the way, the anti-servo tab works the opposite way of the servo-tab to provide MORE force on the stick so that an aircraft with very light controls won't be too unstable for the pilot.

[raaaid]

servotabs

thats why using the trim you can pull more force than using the stick

actually old il2 bat turns with the trim were totally realistic

shouldne we had not delay at all in the trim ;)

rbj?

[335th_GRAthos]

rbj?


ROFL !!!!!!

Yeaah, I also think of him, now that I have ten working sliders....