109 E3 cant catch AI hurricanes?

[Bpdslayer]

With realistic CEM settings on, I have difficulties keeping up with AI Hurricanes. My CEM settings are like this: water radiator open, oil rad open, WEP on, throttle full, prop pitch adjusted to keep RPMs between 2100 and 2400.

First question, does anyone face such a problem? Was the E3 slower than the hurricane? Am I doing something wrong, like is there a optimum prop setting for speed? or rpm setting i should keep for speed?

I got frustrated as I couldnt keep up, most of the time, with the hurricanes i was up against in the 'even dogfight' quick mission.

Anyone can give me feed back on what i'm doing wrong?

[pupo162]

more revs i guess. 2500.

[Winger]

With realistic CEM settings on, I have difficulties keeping up with AI Hurricanes. My CEM settings are like this: water radiator open, oil rad open, WEP on, throttle full, prop pitch adjusted to keep RPMs between 2100 and 2400.

First question, does anyone face such a problem? Was the E3 slower than the hurricane? Am I doing something wrong, like is there a optimum prop setting for speed? or rpm setting i should keep for speed?

I got frustrated as I couldnt keep up, most of the time, with the hurricanes i was up against in the 'even dogfight' quick mission.

Anyone can give me feed back on what i'm doing wrong?

I keep RPMs at 2300 for maximum speed. Also slightly close the radiators and dont forget to apply some rudder to prevent sideslipping (costs speed) -> Keep an eye on the slipindicator in the cockpit. The lack of ruddertrim was a known weakness of the 109 E3.

Winger

EDIT: Pilots notes by Paul Sinnott show the influence of radiatorposition on topspeed:

At 16,400ft - 355mph, 2400 rpm +2,3lb/square inch boost pressure with radiators closed.
At 14,800ft - 330mph, 2400rpm +2,1lb/square inch boos pressure with radiators open.

[Bpdslayer]

Thanks for the replies, i'll try that. So radiators 3/4 open

[Doc_uk]

The Al are cheating, I tell you:grin:

[Winger]

Thanks for the replies, i'll try that. So radiators 3/4 open

Applying rudder to prevent sideslip is at least as important!

Winger

[Bpdslayer]

aiights, i'll watch the sideslip :)

[Blackdog_kt]

I initially had that problem too when i first ran that mission, until i started paying closer attention to my RPMs. During the course of just one mission i went from "i can't catch him" to running him down with ease and i wasn't even using WEP. I was running 1.3-1.35 Ata the whole time, staying within the engine limits.

The thing with the 109 is that you constantly have to work the pitch/RPMs depending on what you are doing.

It's like driving a manual transmission car, high RPM corresponds to low gears and low RPM corresponds to high gears:

Use high RPM for climbing, accelerating from a low initial speed,reducing speed in a dive (this last one with low or idle throttle, otherwise you'll exceed the RPM limits) and faster, more "nervous" response to throttle changes.
This is why take-offs and landings are done with fine pitch, it can keep your speed down on the descend and also give you the needed acceleration during take-off or a go-around. It's like going downhill in your car, down-shifting and relaxing the pressure on the gas pedal to stop your speed from increasing too much, then accelerating to climb the next hill.

Use lower RPM for fuel efficiency during cruise, accelerating in a dive and attaining your top speed. For example, trim for level flight and once the aircraft settles down wait until your airspeed stops increasing. Then lower the RPM a bit and you'll see the aircraft wants to climb, if you trim this climb out you get a bit more speed. If you repeat this process 2-3 times you'll get a higher airspeed for less fuel, as long as you don't start climbing steeply.
It's like driving on the highway and once you hit 100km/h you shift from 4th to 5th gear.

Radiator management and trim/manual rudder to counter slipping are equally important but easier to get right through practice and habit.

[Ivan Fooker]

Sorry guys, you can fly nearly perfect in Cod, but you will not be able to keep up with any AI plane...maybe u ll be able to get the Sunderland.
A Blenheim is turning you out and your arnt able to keep up.
So it has nothing to do with your flight artists atm.

The AI is cheating.
But i expect it will be fixxed when the major bugs/issues got fixxed.

[ATAG_Doc]

Dude I must have NOS on my E3 because I almost rear-end them. You have to find the sweet spot for a given situation. That's the fun part of CEM in this simulator. In other words you have to know what you're doing. I am not completely there yet but I am learning by feeling it and now CEM is the only way to go. It's just that much better. Knowing CEM is the difference between rookies and vets. Anyone with experience will be able to stay on the 6 of someone just learning so never venture out without an experienced wingman that can watch you.

[ATAG_Doc]

Also, pay attention to your relative energy states, flying now is really about conservation of energy in the 109. Don't turn and burn, and get low and slow against anyone, or you're simply not going to make up the distance quickly.

That means no more ground hugging turning and burning. You have to fly it as if your life really depended on it.

[Blackdog_kt]

Dude I must have NO2 on my E3 because I almost rear-end them.

Hahah, that's funny but it's also what i've experienced after taking the time to experiment and find out what works and what doesn't.

I don't know if the AI cheats but if it does, it certainly cheats on a much lesser degree that it used to do in IL2. I have no problem catching them in a 109 and i can hold my own just fine against AI Hurricanes in a 110 too.

It's not easy because it involves keeping your relative energy state in mind at all times while doing your best to maximize the differential in your favor through the right maneuvers and the correct CEM, but AI being impossible to catch? Not by a long shot, unless they do have the faster aircraft and they play it to its strengths.

[Ivan Fooker]

Well try to overhaul a Blenheim on its flight back home.
Try to keep on a Blenheims six in a dogfight.

The AI is not using the same limits as a player use.
CEM gives a player the possibility to get the rest of its engine.

But that has nothing to do with a not balanced AI, what it is atm.
There are already several threads about that topic.

If you think CEM seperates from Pros and Rooks...i must suppose you are no real pilot, which is absolutely ok, but dont expect too much in relation to RL from the CEM.
It is just the a piece of basics you cover with the ingame CEM.
Neverhtless the AI "cheats" ... more than in Il2...as in Il2 it kept almost to its limits.

[ElAurens]

Odd, I have no trouble running down any bomber, Human or AI, with any of the single seaters.

When I fly the Hurri, 109s always can disengage and leave me in the dust. At least the smart ones do, but mostly they stick around and try to mix it up with me, probably because they see the Hurri as easy meat.

I love it when they do that.

MUHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

[Blackdog_kt]

Well try to overhaul a Blenheim on its flight back home.
Try to keep on a Blenheims six in a dogfight.

The AI is not using the same limits as a player use.
CEM gives a player the possibility to get the rest of its engine.

But that has nothing to do with a not balanced AI, what it is atm.
There are already several threads about that topic.

If you think CEM seperates from Pros and Rooks...i must suppose you are no real pilot, which is absolutely ok, but dont expect too much in relation to RL from the CEM.
It is just the a piece of basics you cover with the ingame CEM.
Neverhtless the AI "cheats" ... more than in Il2...as in Il2 it kept almost to its limits.

I'm not saying using CEM somehow makes me a superior to those who don't, neither that it's completely lifelike and the AI sure needs some adjustment. All i'm saying is i have no problem doing what you describe, nothing more, nothing less, despite the current state of AI or how realistic the CEM is, that's all ;)

[Pluto]

To shoot down AI Hurricane with BF109 is not so hard (flying on full real with CEM). Just watch your proppitch and ATA (keep ATA arround 1.3 and RPMs arround 2000 most of the time), keep both radiators full open, the 109 is anyway much faster than the Hurricane. Just dont try to "dance" (twist and turn) with it. The Hurricane can do that much better than the 109.
If you have 3 or 4 against you, you better run!
:)

[David198502]

i have no problem either to catch hurries with my bf.prop pitch rpms are all i watch.i didnt focus on rudder trimming yet,but i will try as someone mentioned that its important as well.but catching hurries is easy

[moilami]

I'm not saying using CEM somehow makes me a superior to those who don't, neither that it's completely lifelike and the AI sure needs some adjustment. All i'm saying is i have no problem doing what you describe, nothing more, nothing less, despite the current state of AI or how realistic the CEM is, that's all ;)

Non CEMmers are equal to CEMmers in Air Quake. But other than that they simply blows, I guess.

[machoo]

The Al are cheating, I tell you:grin:

They do. They do mad vertical dives while at the same time barrel roll and pull up like a stunt plane. It's bollocks. And they do super insane vertical climbs.

[machoo]

Ps. The Ai have Haxx!

[He111]

Didn't the British use American hi-octane fuel in their spits and hurris? maybe that's the reason for Bf109E speed problems? .. COD is suppose to be very detailed, I suspect Oleg wouldn't forget a feature like fuel octane.

He111.

[ElAurens]

Currently the British aircraft are not getting the boost numbers that would coincide with 100 octane fuel use.

They are operating on 87 octane fuel.

[ICDP]

The only fighters in the sim that get close to (or match) their real world counterparts are the following:

Spitfire Mk IIa, it says +8 lb boost but it gets +12 boost speeds. So it matches +12 lb boost running 100 octane fuel.

Bf110C is getting speeds for DB601A-1 equiped machines. About half of the Bf110s in the battle had the BD601N which was much faster, it is not modelled in CoD.

All other are either woefully underperforming or as ElAurens states, they are running 87 octane fuel. The order of porkedness ranges from 40-70kph depending on altitude. So the Hurricane I (DH), Hurricane I (Rotol), Spitfire Mk I (DH), Spitfire Mk Ia (Rotol), Bf109E and Fiat G.50 are all far to slow.

[ATAG_Doc]

I'm going to attempt a video of this and show you and I will perform my kamikaze impersonation. Do this...get high as you can. Then take off. No wait I have that backward. Get as much altitude as you need to provide yourself a good attack angle and point your plane just ahead of them and keep it there. Give it gas. As you pick up speed you need to adjust prop pitch to a position that reduces your rpms and pressure to safe levels. Keep the throttle on full and watch your speed. It's not instant but as you approach them a convergence of your higher speed, higher altitude and convergence of your armament should be able to trash your bomber pretty well as you scream past them giving them the one finger salute. Rinse and repeat. And of course you can always run into them.

[DogTailRed2]

The AI trims to perfection and has no control wobble so it maxes out it's performance. A human opponent has too many variables to juggle so will never catch the AI. So the code needs to lower the AI performance a tad.

[TomcatViP]

don't forget to fly with the ball centered to lower the drag and increase your speed.

The F16 roll's rate is quite funny indeed. I always take thpe extra time to seat back and relax a couple of seconds. My guess is that it is a good add to the anti-epilepsy filter ;)

[andrea78]

I do not fly 109s, anyway in the 110 campaign (CEM+temp) it is quite easy shoot down at least 1 hurri or spit/mission.... and I'm not a good fighter pilot.