Spitfire going the wrong direction...

[senseispcc]

Hello,

I must write that the Spitfire heading indicator is reverse 180 indicated is 0.
I did see thios when flying over London and going to Biggin Hill the course indicated was 003 not 150 as it should be.
Strange!:confused:

A little note; the artificial horrizon is stil stuk after some barrel rolls.

I hope this to be corrected or justified.
This fantastic, great simulation should be perfect. It is nearly so, thanks to the creators team. :)

[IvanK]

Err No.

Heading indicator is spot on. you are making the same error that many RAF pilots made, There was a real Human factors issue with this compass.

1. Align Compass verge ring such that Parallel lines are parallel with the big pointer with a small cross bar on the top.
2. To remove the ambiguity ensure the red N is being pointed to by the large needle with crossbar.
3. Read the Magnetic heading from the blue text ... (or 12 O'clock position on the compass verge ring)
4. set this on the DG. Also note DG gyro precession is modelled as well, as are compass turning and acceleration errors.

There is a good description on this forum.

As to the AH ... search the forums for the discussion. Basically Gyro precession and toppling are modelled.

I have navigated all over this map using the RAF compass and DG system it works well if used as it was designed to be used.

[whoarmongar]

These are not bugs they are features.

Your instruments will topple after extreme manouvers, this is normal.

Your course setter must be set before takeoff,

Theres lotsa threads about all of this on this forum, really its best to search this forum before posting. I know its exasperating when faced with a complex sim when the PDF manual is so difficient. To be honest the manual IS really rubbish I know. It could be so much better, I have seen really simple little games with better manuals,
For example it tells you that engine managment is very complex, then sorta glosses over it. hardly any explanations at all
It makes no mention of having to set your coursesetter, So the new pilot takes off flies around a bit then thinks "Hey the seas on my right side, surely it should be on my left". or "what the hell its six pm but the sun is setting in the east. Or do as I did, fly across to France then set what I thought was a NW course for Blighty and end up hopelessly lost somewhere near the dutch border (I think).

So enjoy this Sim, and search these forums thoroughly, coz you will find this forum far more informative than that manual.

Oh and look at the thread "where the hell am I going" for full instructions on setting your course. No link or quote, sorry its good practice go look for it.

Now just dont ask about " Fuel Mix" or where to find the airport maps so that you know which way to turn when pulling out of a hanger to find the runway, or even how to turn when taxiing, or how to start the engine with CEM enabled or why your engine keeps blowing up, or why your spitfire wont rev above 2000 rpm or why does my wing keep dropping, or................ ok

[whoarmongar]

[QUOTE=IvanK;272826]Err No.

Heading indicator is spot on. you are making the same error that many RAF pilots made, There was a real Human factors issue with this compass.

And not just RAF pilots. On 23 June 1942 Oberleutnant Arnim Faber landed his FW 190 at Pembrey in South Wales, after getting disorientated in battle with Spitfires operating from Exeter, he obviously flew NW thinking he was going SE. and so handed a shiny new FW190 totally undamaged to the RAF. Fighter Command conducted performance measurements and tactical trials v the Spitfire IX (ie the latest spit at that time) and concluded that the FW190 climbed better between 15000-23000ft and had a better role rate. As at this time the majority of RAf Spits were MkVs this was a bit of an eye opener for them.

[senseispcc]

[QUOTE=IvanK;272826]Err No.

Heading indicator is spot on. you are making the same error that many RAF pilots made, There was a real Human factors issue with this compass.




Sorry but Biggin Hill is South East of London not north West. It is not the compass it is the direction indicator just above the compass.
For the artificial horizon it get stuck and stay there in a random corner of the instrument, in a real aircraft you can cage it and when flying horizontal uncage it for fly with the instruments or is it impossible to fly at night without horizon outside, if this is true good luck to land at night.

[BadAim]

What Ivan was saying is you have to set the Direction Indicator by the compass, it's not set when you start out.

[senseispcc]

What Ivan was saying is you have to set the Direction Indicator by the compass, it's not set when you start out.

If you start in flight how do you set the direction indicator, no mouse avaible in my cockpit. :o
If you find this funny why is it not the same in the Hurricane?

[Sternjaeger II]

Guys,you need to bear in mind that whilst we like yanking our planes all over the place with violent manoeuvres,in real life u avoid that as much as possible. Precession and gyro tumbling are extremely accurate and probably unprecedented in the sim world.

[whoarmongar]

Its exactly the same in the damn Hurricane. This is a sim. in 1940 the gyro was uncageable. Go to your settings and apply some keys to set the compass and DirIndicator,use glance at dashboard and move the stick out the way to see clearly, just make this part of your preflight routine before takeoff and if your still confused read some posts,if you start in flight post patch the DI is auto set for you. If your gyro has toppled its still posible to fly blind, you have other instruments it just takes practice, speed is your best indicator ie slowing =climb, speeding up= down, and you have other turn indicators as well, try it, topple your instruments then just fly on your dashboard view, its difficult I grant you but it is possible. as for landing blind well I cant I make sure im home before dark.

[IvanK]

If you start in flight how do you set the direction indicator, no mouse avaible in my cockpit. :o
If you find this funny why is it not the same in the Hurricane?

Exactly as I indicated in my post use the 4 steps. Determine current heading from the main compass, then set the DG on that heading .... then turn on to your desired heading using the DG.... thats exactly how its meant to work and exactly how it works in game.

If you dont want to use the mouse then set the appropriate keybindings to adjust the compass and DG courses.

[senseispcc]

Exactly as I indicated in my post use the 4 steps. Determine current heading from the main compass, then set the DG on that heading .... then turn on to your desired heading using the DG.... thats exactly how its meant to work and exactly how it works in game.

If you dont want to use the mouse then set the appropriate keybindings to adjust the compass and DG courses.

Give US then thousand pages of technical manual to fly this things?! NO? how strange!

[BadAim]

There's lots of stuff we are having to learn on our own and/or with other peoples help. I for one appreciate Ivan's help here. The biggest problem I'm having is to get a decent view of the compass, it must have been a total "pita" in the real Spit to update the gyro in flight.

[senseispcc]

There's lots of stuff we are having to learn on our own and/or with other peoples help. I for one appreciate Ivan's help here. The biggest problem I'm having is to get a decent view of the compass, it must have been a total "pita" in the real Spit to update the gyro in flight.

Thus the need for a complet Manual. :cool: Thanks for your help but I shall take fly training to play a game :rolleyes:

[BadAim]

That's the whole point there matey! CloD isn't just another flying game, it's among, if not the most advanced flight simulators ever made for the general public (bugs notwithstanding). It's supposed to take some time to learn, it should right well be damn hard to get the hang of, if it's doing it's job right, you'll have to turn to mates with more experience to help out.

CloD is simulating the bleeding edge military weapons of their day, and they commonly killed their own pilots at an alarming rate, (at one point the Luftwaffe was loosing just as many pilots to accidents as to the allies!). This stuff is supposed to be hard. Enjoy it, your stepping into history.

And by the way, I agree 100% that we need a more comprehensive manual. It just may fall on us (this community) to write it.

[senseispcc]

That's the whole point there matey! CloD isn't just another flying game, it's among, if not the most advanced flight simulators ever made for the general public (bugs notwithstanding). It's supposed to take some time to learn, it should right well be damn hard to get the hang of, if it's doing it's job right, you'll have to turn to mates with more experience to help out.

CloD is simulating the bleeding edge military weapons of their day, and they commonly killed their own pilots at an alarming rate, (at one point the Luftwaffe was loosing just as many pilots to accidents as to the allies!). This stuff is supposed to be hard. Enjoy it, your stepping into history.

And by the way, I agree 100% that we need a more comprehensive manual. It just may fall on us (this community) to write it.


When do you start?

[squidgyb]

That's really not a pleasant attitude to take mate - be a little respectful, these guys are actually trying to help you - but not spoon feed you.

I'd like a decent manual as much as the next man (and for comparison I own the KA-50 manual - while I haven't seen one of the legendary Falcon 4.0 bound manuals, the KA-50 manual is a glorious piece of work, and more of a concentrated encyclopaedia entry on modern attack helicopters and the KA-50's systems) - I'm prepared to wait for either 1c/Dev team to produce an official one, for the community to make one, or to learn myself.

Without the expectation that others will do it for me.

[senseispcc]

That's really not a pleasant attitude to take mate - be a little respectful, these guys are actually trying to help you - but not spoon feed you.

Without the expectation that others will do it for me.

A little respect is due to me also!!!:evil:
Ok like always this forum is going to hell, I find their attitude very respectful for someone that is searching to understand the subject they could not explain, if you think they are the one being badly treated I should think twice. Banish me and I shall be happy to be out of this elitist fantasy world.
I am very crossed with your attitude is this a totalitarian society where when you are not happy; DIE! or be silent do not make any fuzz.
When you try to explain something, try to do it for a thing you know of!



Extract from a site that tries to explain the Spitfire compass;

http://spitfiresite.com/2009/03/swinging-the-compass.html

Anonymous early Spitfire Mk. I on compass swing, location unknown. This view shows to advantage the dinstinctive features of the earliest production Spitfires Mk. I: wooden two-blade propeller, unarmoured windscreen, straight cockpit canopy, thin and tall aerial mast and (barely visible) rudder horn balance guard.

Compass swinging was a rather time-consuming task which could be simplified considerably by placing an aircraft on a rotating platform such as this. With a fitter sitting in the cockpit and the aircraft in flight-ready configuration, the engine was started and then the platform aligned so that the aircraft faced the 0 degree (north) heading. Then the fitter would check if the aircraft magnetic compass was in alignment with the magnetic north. If not, he would adjust the compensator screws with a non-magnetic screwdriver until the compass read 0 degrees. Then the procedure would be repeated for the 90-degree (east), 180 (south) and 270-degree (west) headings.

After these adjustments the compass was checked once again by turning it around stopping at each 30-degree heading and recording the compass readings, fine-tuning the compensator screws to ensure that there was no more than a few degrees difference between any of the indicated headings on the compass and the actual heading.
[Crown Copyright, via Jenny Scott]

[nearmiss]

The manual has never been the strong point with IL2 either.

There have always been discussions about issues not covered in the actual docs for IL2.

Many people will be creating articles and information documents over time.

So, if anyone expects to buy the BOB COD and read a 1000+ pages of documentation you'll do better to go with an older sim where users have created enlargements to documents.

Most of us would rather the developer spent the time and money on improvements to the sim. We don't have to know all the little sweaky stuff, just the more important things that need clarification to basically use the sim.

[IvanK]

A little respect is due to me also!!!:evil:
Ok like always this forum is going to hell, I find their attitude very respectful for someone that is searching to understand the subject they could not explain, if you think they are the one being badly treated I should think twice. Banish me and I shall be happy to be out of this elitist fantasy world.
I am very crossed with your attitude is this a totalitarian society where when you are not happy; DIE! or be silent do not make any fuzz.
When you try to explain something, try to do it for a thing you know of!



Extract from a site that tries to explain the Spitfire compass;

http://spitfiresite.com/2009/03/swinging-the-compass.html

Anonymous early Spitfire Mk. I on compass swing, location unknown. This view shows to advantage the dinstinctive features of the earliest production Spitfires Mk. I: wooden two-blade propeller, unarmoured windscreen, straight cockpit canopy, thin and tall aerial mast and (barely visible) rudder horn balance guard.

Compass swinging was a rather time-consuming task which could be simplified considerably by placing an aircraft on a rotating platform such as this. With a fitter sitting in the cockpit and the aircraft in flight-ready configuration, the engine was started and then the platform aligned so that the aircraft faced the 0 degree (north) heading. Then the fitter would check if the aircraft magnetic compass was in alignment with the magnetic north. If not, he would adjust the compensator screws with a non-magnetic screwdriver until the compass read 0 degrees. Then the procedure would be repeated for the 90-degree (east), 180 (south) and 270-degree (west) headings.

After these adjustments the compass was checked once again by turning it around stopping at each 30-degree heading and recording the compass readings, fine-tuning the compensator screws to ensure that there was no more than a few degrees difference between any of the indicated headings on the compass and the actual heading.
[Crown Copyright, via Jenny Scott]

That procedure is Compass swinging and is common to ANY magnetic compass in pretty much any aircraft. Compass swinging is an engineering task to remove or quantify compass errors produced by magnetic structures in the aircraft itself. Most errors can be removed by tiny compensation magnets in the compass body itself. For those that cant then a Steering sheet is provided. This typically lists the small heading corrections required to fly a specific heading. Like to Fly Heading 030 Steerr 032 etc. Even your Airliners today have these.

[whoarmongar]

What they are doing is aligning the compass. You are not expected to do this in CoD.
In COD your compass is aligned, the needle points north.
What you are expected to do is line up your coursesetter (the tram lines) to your already aligned compass , stage 1.
then you take this reading and input it into your directional gyro ( the readout on your dashboard inconveniently hidden behind the stick) stage2.
It takes about 15seconds to do this. just make it a preflight ritual, It gives you something to do while you wait for your engines to warm up.

[II./JG1_Wilcke]

Time to start making checklists for all the different AC, Pre-flight, Pre-Engine Start, Post-Engine, Pre-Taxi, Taxi, Run-Ups, Take off, Climb, Cruise, Combat, Descent, Pattern, Approach and Shut Down.

[jadeguy]

thanks for the info, chaps!