Help on flying the 109

[ga_332]

1. Looks like i blow the engine each time, got oil on front just in 30 sec
2. 109 have only trim for elevator not Ailron?
3. Is magneto auto on 109?
4. Whats the diffrent on 109 E3/B
5. Radiator is auto?
6. Mixure only full og min 2 steps?
7. Hav ethe 109 WEP? Or emergency power on the engine?
8. Prop pitch is auto?

And how would you 109 pilots fly the 109 on with the spit in COD ;)

[6S.Manu]

1. Looks like i blow the engine each time, got oil on front just in 30 sec
Watch out for the temperatures. Do not go over 2500rpm.
2. 109 have only trim for elevator not Ailron?
Yes, only elevator.
3. Is magneto auto on 109?
No, put it manually at 1+2.
4. Whats the diffrent on 109 E3/B
It has the rack to carry bombs
5. Radiator is auto?
No, 2 states: closed / opened
6. Mixure only full og min 2 steps?
It should be auto iirc... but it's bugged
7. Hav ethe 109 WEP? Or emergency power on the engine?
press W and look at the ata indicator. WEP is for 1 min.
8. Prop pitch is auto?
No! you have to adjust it at every speed variation: keep full throttle and use the PP to keep the RPM constant.

And how would you 109 pilots fly the 109 on with the spit in COD ;)
It's a long story... :-)

[robtek]

The radiator is not only two positions! Push the "open rad" key and watch the crank on the right side of the cockpit, 3 and a quarter turns from closed to open.
Further is there a indicator pin on the right wing, though in reality it worked just the other way, it works -> full out -> rad open.

[ga_332]

Thx alot for taking the time "6S.Manu" :grin: and to you robtek ;)

[Winger]

1. Looks like i blow the engine each time, got oil on front just in 30 sec
2. 109 have only trim for elevator not Ailron?
3. Is magneto auto on 109?
4. Whats the diffrent on 109 E3/B
5. Radiator is auto?
6. Mixure only full og min 2 steps?
7. Hav ethe 109 WEP? Or emergency power on the engine?
8. Prop pitch is auto?

And how would you 109 pilots fly the 109 on with the spit in COD ;)

Radiator is neither auto nor does it only have "on" and "off". Its analog. Rotate the crank to open it. To see how much its opened look out the window to the right theres a small pin on the wing wich is fully extended when radiator is fully open.
The rest my preposter said nails it.

Winger

[ga_332]

Thx WInger, but when im in cockpit and try open, close Radiator the handel in the cockpit do not move? Do I jave to be airborn to make it work?

And when hiting WEP it enable it self but I cant turn it off?, dos it just turns its self off after 1 min? or ..............

[ga_332]

Some question

1. Cant open/close the Radiator in 109? is it a bug?
2. When Wep is turn on you cant turn it off? you have to wait 1 minut for it to auto tirns off?
3. When flying for a while the 109 start to shake, when I trottel down to almoust 0 trottel it stops, but when I trottel up again it starts to shake again, both in low and high alt have i broken the engine? The Temp looks fine and no oil :D
4. Should magneto always stay on 1+2 ?

[Viper2000]

I'm not sure why there's 2 settings, I'm sure in RL there must be times you'd want only 1 plug firing, but probably not modeled in the game

It's so that you can test that both magnetos are working properly before takeoff. The whole point of the system is that the engine will keep running on one mag, so you wouldn't know that one mag was broken unless you tested it.

Given that the "mechanical weathering" allows for random failures, it might be worth doing preflight checks in CoD, though I'm not sure quite how you go about "explaining" to the game engine that you refused to fly the mission because the aeroplane was U/S...

[ga_332]

Thx cheesehawk,

Looks like I had not turn on realisme on engine heat so that why the radiator on both oil and water did not work :D But it dos now ;)

What would be the Normal settings for radiators on oil and water be? Middel settings ;) or best temp............ and what is the dissedvantage if they are to cold.......

Still looking at the shakes......maybee as you said head shake i try turn that off.....ok testet it turn off head shake totaly gone? is this a bug?

Btw what RPM should you not overdue under 2500 or 3000?

[Viper2000]

2500 rpm max for one minute. 2400 rpm for 5 minutes, or 2300 rpm for 30 minutes.

If the oil gets too cold then the oil pressure will get too high & you'll break something. If the coolant temperature is too low then opening up to high power would probably cause thermal shock.

The reality is that once the aeroplane is flying you're quite unlikely to overcool it unless you're descending at idle power or something.

You obviously want to keep the radiators as close to closed as possible to reduce drag, whilst keeping temperatures within limits.

I don't know what the actual limits for the DB601 were off the top of my head, but generally coolant <120º and oil <90º is a good guess for a WWII piston engine.

[ga_332]

Thx Viper :)

Were do you have the data on rpm from........
The higher the RPM the more heat its generate for the temp on both oil and water and then again what should the max temp for oil and water be without damaging the engine..........Coolent below 120º and oil below 90º

[ga_332]

Thx again cheesehawk, good info and feed back ;)

[Gollum]

There are no "normal" settings for the rads on oil or water, but you want them to be closed as much as possible (for reduced drag) and keep temps where you want them. That being said, I tend to open both up fully after the engine has warmed up on start up, then take off, then close oil about 60% and water about 30% (hard to judge here, both are analog, you have to look at the controls and guess where you have set them), and cruise at 1.75-1.2 ATA and engine around 2000-2500. I haven't really pushed the engines hard yet, as I'm still trying to come to grips with where I want the prop pitch through hard maneuvering.

Not sure if the head shake is a "bug", or just something else we're not considering. I don't have any time (other than a ride in a P-51 at an airshow many many years ago, but I wasn't the pilot) in a single-engine high performance aircraft with 1940s technology. Perhaps there was some resonance in the airframe that is transmitted to the pilot we don't know about? At any rate, my ride is much smoother with the head-shake turned off, but I disabled it because it interfered with my TrackIR, the smooth ride was just a desirable side effect!

In normal flight, I don't exceed 2500, but for short bursts, I think 3000 is ok. While diving and pulling during the bomber intercept mission for example, I find myself letting the engine rev up past 2600-2700 several times, even up to 3200. No smoke was coming out of my engine, no oil on the windscreen, but I didn't let the engine stay in that range more than 3-5 seconds. After mission end, it showed my plane had suffered 20% damage, not sure if it was gunfire, or my own abusing the powerplant. Use high RPM past the redline at 2600 at your own risk.

I've had the same problem with the vibrating engine. The first time this happened to me it happened to both me and my buddy. We both flew over the channel and it began when we got to the cliffs.

During our flight we had constant RPM at around 2100 RPM, oil and water radiators both half closed ( for some reason our water radiators have 3 positions not fully movable like spit radiator ), and throttle around 3/4 maybe less. All temps seemed in range as well.

When we reached the cliffs both our engines started vibrating. throttle down, no shake, throttle up more and more viloent shaking.

My solution has be to keep water radiator fully open (third position) and oil 3/4 open and only close any of them further when diving or for short periods of combat. So far so good but find it weird that you guys are saying your radiators dont have "3 positions" and that you would have to keep the water radiator fully open during cruise conditions.

Anyone have the same issues?

[PVT_Shepperd]

The water radiators in the 109 are not fully adjustable. There is closed and automatic. Open them and they work automatically and keep your temperature at a (nearly) constant temp.
The oil radiators are fully adjustable.

[ga_332]

The water radiators in the 109 are not fully adjustable. There is closed and automatic. Open them and they work automatically and keep your temperature at a (nearly) constant temp.
The oil radiators are fully adjustable.
Ok ergo if you just open the radiators it would be automatically , and you can just fogett ite when flying is this correct :cool:

But Oil Temp you have to follow it and adjust it to keep it in the right range.

[Babi]

The water radiators in the 109 are not fully adjustable. There is closed and automatic. Open them and they work automatically and keep your temperature at a (nearly) constant temp.
The oil radiators are fully adjustable.

err.. no.

Can't say for the real thing, but in the game you have fully adjustable water radiator, with a mechanism similar to the flaps deployment. there are three "states":

-neutral, in which the radiator doesnt move (the radiator slider on the hud stays in the middle)

-opening, the radiator gradually opens up, but you have to keep the "open radiator" key pressed (the radiator slider on the hud is on the top)

-closing, the radiator gradually closes, but you have to keep the "close radiator" key pressed (the radiator slider on the hud is on the bottom)

[ga_332]

Ok I study the manual and look slike the 109 v spit is faster, better climber, dives better in the alt range of 0-5000 m .

So in short if you are flying the 109 keep you self in the alt range from 0-5000 and you should have the uperhand. Do you guys agree?

[Gollum]

Wow. didnt think there would be so many opinions.. Anyone know the real story? Also, my problem was not solved by opening all radiators. For some reason no matter what I do I get an engine vibration that starts about 20 min into flight that gets worse and worse as the flight goes on until its a constant shake rendering my plane unflyable.

My flight consists of constant 2300 RPM, 3/4 throttle, mixture auto, both radiators full open.

Have also tried with radiators in what I think is the middle option for water and halfway open oil radiator.

Have also tried both with constant RPM at 2100 and 2400.

No use. engine starts vibrating 20 min in and gets worse.

I thought I was doing something wrong but am getting the feeling it may be a bug.. Unless you guys know of something I am missing here?

Yes my flaps are in the closed position and my gear is up.

-Gollum

[Gollum]

Just tried it again. It seems as if the higher I go the more violent the shaking, then at 5 K I get carbourator failure. Mixture is auto right? So why does this happen? Even when I start a quick mission where we start at about 2 or 3 K the shakes are aleady happening. Is this just how the plane was ? I cant see that being possible.

Basically, if i stay under 2k I have no problem but if i venture above it I get shakes and then when I return to low altitude, it seems the damage is already done and I cant get rid of them.

Nobody else is having this problem?

-Gollum

[Gollum]

scratch that. Even at low altitudes this happens. It seems to be directly associated with ATA. Whenever I dont have the throttle pinned to max I get violent shaking. More and more with decrease in throttle. I've no Idea whats going on. Even with throttle pinned I get minor shaking. Again this is as soon as I load into quick mission so It cant be from prior mistakes and engine wear.

[Babi]

scratch that. Even at low altitudes this happens. It seems to be directly associated with ATA. Whenever I dont have the throttle pinned to max I get violent shaking. More and more with decrease in throttle. I've no Idea whats going on. Even with throttle pinned I get minor shaking. Again this is as soon as I load into quick mission so It cant be from prior mistakes and engine wear.

it's been reported by many players... it'a probably a bug, and as you said its strange because the lower the manifold pressure, the worst the shaking. so it can happen both at high altitude (pressure drops) or when not going at full throttle. hope they fix it soon because right now its a bit of a pain in the arse for 109 CEM flyers.

[Tymi]

it's been reported by many players... it'a probably a bug, and as you said its strange because the lower the manifold pressure, the worst the shaking. so it can happen both at high altitude (pressure drops) or when not going at full throttle. hope they fix it soon because right now its a bit of a pain in the arse for 109 CEM flyers.

The bug affects all the planes :( But the devs are aware of it and i hope we'll see a fix in the next patch! (beta should be out any minute now)

[Babi]

Tested rhe beta patch. its still there for me. :(

[Tymi]

Tested rhe beta patch. its still there for me. :(

Yep, same here :( I guess the bug wasn't high priority after all :(

[Blackdog_kt]

err.. no.

Can't say for the real thing, but in the game you have fully adjustable water radiator, with a mechanism similar to the flaps deployment. there are three "states":

-neutral, in which the radiator doesnt move (the radiator slider on the hud stays in the middle)

-opening, the radiator gradually opens up, but you have to keep the "open radiator" key pressed (the radiator slider on the hud is on the top)

-closing, the radiator gradually closes, but you have to keep the "close radiator" key pressed (the radiator slider on the hud is on the bottom)


This. It's easily confirmed if you go to an external view and watch them work while you press the appropriate commands.

The confusion comes from the fact that the HUD displays the state of the control, not the state of the water radiators, so that for example the HUD slider stays centered whenever you are not giving any radiator commands because it's in a neutral state. If you press the "open water rads" key the slider indicates the top position for as long as you keep opening them, similar when closing them, but that's only an indication of whether you are applying changes to the rads, not how open they actually are.

To gauge their actual position look at your wings, there are moveable pin indicators that extend and retract into the wings.


As for the engine shaking, it's something to do with the auto-mixture mechanisms. They are bugged not just in the 109 but in most other aircraft too (i've seen it happen in a Hurricane and in the 110 and i heard others say it also happens with the Spitfire), they run a bit too rich and that's why the engines run rough at high altitude. It's a known, reported bug and we're waiting for a fix.

As for the mixture don't touch it mid-flight in the 109, it's only got two positions: auto and cut-off.

I hope this helps clear up some of the confusion.

[MadBlaster]

the 109 doesn't have a carburetor, nor a manually adjusted mixture control. the game came with a manual. I learned read in preschool.:rolleyes:

[ga_332]

Big boys do not read manuals its probely the last thing we do, you should know that MadBlaster ;)

[ga_332]

Som more questions to you Gents regarding the 109 ;)

- Flaps have no indication 20,30% etc. you hav to mesure it Visualy...
- Combat flaps for 109 how much should you use, and whats the adventage for it.....
- How do you mesure bullets left in gun/Canon?
- Super Charger what is this? and when should you use it?
- Average speed for 109 is about 400km/h
- Indication on water/oil radiator, difficult to se how much you have open/cloed it
- Do the 109 have mirrors?

[Sven]

Som more questions to you Gents regarding the 109 ;)

- Flaps have no indication 20,30% etc. you hav to mesure it Visualy...
- Combat flaps for 109 how much should you use, and whats the adventage for it.....
- How do you mesure bullets left in gun/Canon?
- Super Charger what is this? and when should you use it?
- Average speed for 109 is about 400km/h
- Indication on water/oil radiator, difficult to se how much you have open/cloed it
- Do the 109 have mirrors?

Hello,

- Yes it was measured visually, since it was never really used in actual front situations, for example they only needed full flaps for landing, they didn't bother with take-off flaps most of the time.
-Combat flaps, well historically they didn't use them a lot but it certainly is possible, a few clicks will provide you with an increased turn rate but you will be sacrificing some speed for it, you shouldnt try outturn anythin in a 109 to be honest ;)
-There's no ammo counter in the Early series I believe, trust your feelings.
-Supercharger, like mixture, is automatic.
-Well FM seems to be a little porked, might link to the mixture problem we have atm.
-I believe there was a small pin on the radiator which would indicate how far it was opened but I don't know much about it, again trust your feelings.
-Mirrors? I believe they were a French invention to observe the war but also used by the other side of the channel.

Hope this helps a bit.

[Sauf]

re ammo counter, its on the lower left hand side off your dash, counter's for cannon rounds and lights for all guns when empty. Radiator indicators are on the wing roots, bit difficult to see as they are close to cockpit.

[Blackdog_kt]

re ammo counter, its on the lower left hand side off your dash, counter's for cannon rounds and lights for all guns when empty. Radiator indicators are on the wing roots, bit difficult to see as they are close to cockpit.

+1 on the ammo counter. There's two rotating number cards which indicate the amount of rounds in the cannons. There's also a way to see exactly how many rounds you have in the cowl-mounted machine guns, toggle the mouse cursor on and hover it over the ammo counter panel, you will get a pop-up telling you the exact amount of MG rounds left.

Combining these two (the actual instrument read-out and the pop-up) you can be absolutely certain about your ammo supply.

A similar instrument exists in the 110 but it doesn't have the pop-up indicating MG rounds, it's limited to displaying remaining cannon rounds. It's located on the upper right part of the instrument panel, left of the clock-type instruments that indicate the prop pitch position.

The interesting thing with that one is that it doesn't only tell you how many rounds are in the cannons, it will also tell you if the gunner has reloaded a replacement drum (there are three drums of 60 rounds each for the 110, reloaded by the gunner in flight): when ammo runs out you get a red light turning on for each cannon, when the reload is finished the lights turn off and the counter indicates 60 rounds per gun again.
Also, a nice little detail is that the guns don't reload at the same time but in sequence, so you can easily have a loaded and an empty cannon at some points during a mission.

Pretty useful to plan your attacks, for example knowing if you should make that diving pass or wait until your cannons are reloaded. ;)

[patrat1]

scratch that. Even at low altitudes this happens. It seems to be directly associated with ATA. Whenever I dont have the throttle pinned to max I get violent shaking. More and more with decrease in throttle. I've no Idea whats going on. Even with throttle pinned I get minor shaking. Again this is as soon as I load into quick mission so It cant be from prior mistakes and engine wear.


im a total noob at this, so take that into account.

i had the same problem as you in the 109, bad shaking and damaged engines. ive found that if you keep your ata high when you run at high rpms, you can eliminate the problem. you do this by managing your pitch and throttle settings. conversly, if you want to run at a lower rpm, lets say to cool your engine. you lower rpm by using prop pitch, and lower your ata using your throttle.

i started watching my ata and kept it high whenever i was running high rpms and lowered it when i was at low rpms and my problem with shaking and damaged engines went away.

i hope this helps.

[ga_332]

Salute all, big thx for answering helps me alot ;)

Sorry for askin, can you reload ammo in the air for the 109 ? or any plane?

[Sokol1]

Uncheck Limited ammo option...

Sokol1

[Blackdog_kt]

Salute all, big thx for answering helps me alot ;)

Sorry for askin, can you reload ammo in the air for the 109 ? or any plane?

Gunners on all Luftwaffe aircraft will automatically reload a magazine once it's depleted. You can see this if you go the gunner's seat and fire off some rounds. You can also map a reload command in the controls if you think you'll need a full magazine, instead of waiting for the previous one to empty (there is some sort of round counter mechanism on the magazine drums).

Apart from that, like i said in my previous post the cannons on the 110 are also reloaded mid-flight by the gunner (there are 180 rounds for each cannon, separated in three drums of 60 rounds each). I'm not sure if having your gunner killed would disable this function as it should in reality, haven't checked it yet.

[Strike]

No you can't for any single engine fighter. Multicrew aircraft have versions of infantry machine guns for different positions (normal not operated by the pilot, who controls wing or nose mounted guns), which can be reloaded.

Basically, any fix mounted guns will not be able to be reloaded without landing and the maintenance crew working on it, but gun turrets or stations (rear gunner on a Stuka for example) might have a drum, clip, belt that can be reloaded.

Actually the 110 simulates the rear gunner loading the ammo drums for the cannons one by one after they deplete. I think he reloads them twice for you..