Antropomorphic Control Needs A Fix

[tf_neuro]

The problem is that many game controllers (including some very popular ones) keep sending small signals to the game all the time. That's usually too little to actually affect gameplay but enough for Antropomorphic control to detect it and freeze all the other controls for the time it's supposed to freeze them... except that before the controls are 'thawed' again, the game controller sends more 'micro-signals' and Antropomorphic control re-freezes everything. This keeps happening all the time, effectively preventing a lot of users from playing the game as long as Antropomorphic control is on.

I guess one solution could be to lower the sensitivity of the Antropomorphic control, like for instance requiring a change of at least "so much" and not faster than "this fast" to freeze the controls. For instance a direct jump from 0 to 100 then back to 0 caused by a spike would be ignored because too fast. A lot of tiny movements caused by buggy game controllers would be ignored as too fast and/or too small, but change made by the player couldnt be faster than 'so' because of limits in the physical univerese, and it would never be smaller than 'so', because of the same limits but also because such a tiny change wouldnt have any effect and the player wouldnt have any reason to make it (except possibly bumping one slider while trying to move another one... but I guess that could be ignored too...)

OK, I admit it, I have no idea what im talking about. Anyways, I'd like to have Antropomorphic Control usable by everyone, including players on those buggy controllers that are pretty much everywhere (even good quality stuff can develop that kind of problem, my CH Throttle Quadrant is an example...)

[Retaliator]

The problem is that many game controllers (including some very popular ones) keep sending small signals to the game all the time. That's usually too little to actually affect gameplay but enough for Antropomorphic control to detect it and freeze all the other controls for the time it's supposed to freeze them... except that before the controls are 'thawed' again, the game controller sends more 'micro-signals' and Antropomorphic control re-freezes everything. This keeps happening all the time, effectively preventing a lot of users from playing the game as long as Antropomorphic control is on.

I guess one solution could be to lower the sensitivity of the Antropomorphic control, like for instance requiring a change of at least "so much" and not faster than "this fast" to freeze the controls. For instance a direct jump from 0 to 100 then back to 0 caused by a spike would be ignored because too fast. A lot of tiny movements caused by buggy game controllers would be ignored as too fast and/or too small, but change made by the player couldnt be faster than 'so' because of limits in the physical univerese, and it would never be smaller than 'so', because of the same limits but also because such a tiny change wouldnt have any effect and the player wouldnt have any reason to make it (except possibly bumping one slider while trying to move another one... but I guess that could be ignored too...)

OK, I admit it, I have no idea what im talking about. Anyways, I'd like to have Antropomorphic Control usable by everyone, including players on those buggy controllers that are pretty much everywhere (even good quality stuff can develop that kind of problem, my CH Throttle Quadrant is an example...)

Completely agree with you... Got the same issue. Even if I'm not touching any controls at all on my X45, occasionally throttle, prop pitch and mix get stuck! Please guys at 1C, address this!!
Thank you

[Khamsin]

In reality, the problem with anthropomorphic controls is much deeper, and will probably NEVER be solved in a computer game.

In reality, a pilot can make a choice in priorities ..... he's diving down on a 109, and in order to maintain his pursuit curve he would need both hands on the stick .... but he also wants to cut throttle to avoid a quick firing solution and quicker overshoot.

He would most likely be willing to give up that perfect pursuit curve in order to get better control over closure rate.

But in a computer simulation, you don't get the choice ..... you are forced to accept the priorities some software designer has selected for you. Can't cut throttle because you have both hands on the stick ..... can't change pitch because you are cutting throttle (notwithstanding the fact that in most aircraft the pitch control is adjacent to the throttle control) etc etc etc.

Anthropomorphic control is a great idea in theory ..... but I just don't see how it will ever work correctly in practice.

[Majo]

I have been able to verify these issues with both CH Hotas and Thrustmaster Warthog.

Please do not forget about this.

Could you consider putting this option on hold on multiplayer mode until it is solved?

Could you consider reviewing the number of elements monitored with this anthropomorphic option so the integration in the simulator will be simplified?

I understand that in single player the option should be kept.

Salutes

[JG53Frankyboy]

if i would be the developer, i would delete this feature from the realismsetting, meaning deleting it totaly. It might beeing a good idea - but not realy functional with the players gamedevices in general.
Dont put any further effort in it.....

and i doubt that any smart multiplayer host has it enabled ;)

[White Owl]

It occurs to me that the clickable cockpit, combined with the realistic tendency of the planes to constantly roll with no aileron trim available, means a kind of anthropomorphic control just naturally happens anyway. If I want to click on something in the cockpit, I move one hand from the throttle to hold the stick steady and use the other hand for the mouse... very similar to managing controls in a real airplane. This is good.

The anthropomorphic control option just seems to add frustration without enhancing the sim experience, IMO. I'm a mostly full switch player, but I leave that one off now.

[VO101_Tom]

I agree with this, this thing in a theory great, but causes an irritation only in practice.

[Plt Off JRB Meaker]

Antropomorphic control is a complete nonsense IMO,and I personally have not used it from the offset of the game.

[Blackdog_kt]

I would really use it if it could filter out the controller spikes.

If it was working correctly (eg, individualized for each aircraft, if it has controls nearby that can be used with a single hand then they would work simultaneously like the throttles, instead of arbitrarily setting a two controller limit) i would also like to see it used on full switch servers.

Otherwise anyone with half a brain can run around with macros that simplify everything and it doesn't even take an expensive HOTAS set to do that now that we have things like GlovePie.

[ATAG_Doc]

I love it actually. Make the person work harder.

[CharveL]

Controller axes get sampled according to the position of a particular pot. The problem is that quite often it happens to rest in between two values (i.e. Between 244 and 255) so the computer "jitters" between them. You van sometimes see this in the calibration software.

Of course it can be filtered out quite easily by the devs by simply ignoring changes of less than 1 or two points I'd imagine but this could be the "spiking" you guys are talking about.

Tbh I've left it off from the beginning as the last thing I need is further buggy features to distract from having some fun with my limited time but the feature is intriguing, at least as a means of stemming the script-whores online, if they get it sorted out.

[Wolf_Rider]

remove it from the sim.... try telling a piano player they can't have both hands and a foot going at the same time, a rally driver they can't steer/ change gear/ heel 'n' toe the brake and gas all at the same time (crikey, even the knee can come up help with the wheel on ocassion)


as most people realise, that when the hands have learned where to go, the hands can get there quite quickly... the hands can also adapt with one hand able to do two functions. ie hold the throttle and thumb the pitch with the other holding the stick on acm... so setting the AC to account for spikey controls may in reality be dumbing down the function

[ocococ]

Yes I would also remove it from the game. The frustration it creates is not worth the slightly extra realism. Ignoring user input without any feedback is stupid. Just get rid of it.

[Tiger27]

remove it from the sim.... try telling a piano player they can't have both hands and a foot going at the same time, a rally driver they can't steer/ change gear/ heel 'n' toe the brake and gas all at the same time (crikey, even the knee can come up help with the wheel on ocassion)


as most people realise, that when the hands have learned where to go, the hands can get there quite quickly... the hands can also adapt with one hand able to do two functions. ie hold the throttle and thumb the pitch with the other holding the stick on acm... so setting the AC to account for spikey controls may in reality be dumbing down the function

I agree in a way about removing it, they have probably used enough resources for these type of features, but the idea is good, it would be more to stop people making macros and scripts to do everything instantly, I imagine it would be easy to map key strokes to my G15 so that when I want cruise etc it is as simple as hitting a button and the rads open, prop pitch is set and so on, but I say if people want to do that let them, I like adjusting levers and switches it gives you something to do on the way to the target.

[335th_GRAthos]

I think this program feature is magnificent (when it will be working properly), this is the difference between HOTAS (Hands On Throttle and Stick) of modern warplanes and the period before.

With the right joystic set (which probably most of us have) you can do wonders which in real life those days were not possible.

It adds a significant difficulty factor (which I do not miss because I already have enough) during a dogfight.


For all other things e.g. when I want cruise etc it is as simple as hitting a button and the rads open, prop pitch is set and so on, but I say if people want to do that let them, it causes no problem, it is sufficient to add some time delay betwen the commands and you will have no problems.

[Blackdog_kt]

remove it from the sim.... try telling a piano player they can't have both hands and a foot going at the same time, a rally driver they can't steer/ change gear/ heel 'n' toe the brake and gas all at the same time (crikey, even the knee can come up help with the wheel on ocassion)


as most people realise, that when the hands have learned where to go, the hands can get there quite quickly... the hands can also adapt with one hand able to do two functions. ie hold the throttle and thumb the pitch with the other holding the stick on acm... so setting the AC to account for spikey controls may in reality be dumbing down the function

All that is fine and dandy if the controls are within reach of a single hand. In many cases they were not.

It's like Athos says:

I think this program feature is magnificent (when it will be working properly), this is the difference between HOTAS (Hands On Throttle and Stick) of modern warplanes and the period before.


Exactly, this is what gives these warbirds much of their character.

This feature needs to be corrected, not discarded. If people want to use their macros they can fly on servers that don't use anthropomorphic control, or add delays between their macro commands to ensure they will work and be stuck waiting for them to finish before they can issue another (not good if something changes mid-combat and one needs to alter their inputs).


There's two things needed to fix this:

1) Filter out the spiking from our game controllers:
For example, give the anthropomorphic controls algorithm a bigger deadzone, maybe after measuring the amount of spiking in a controller through a tool in the options in order not to have people abusing it to sidestep the algorithm. For example, the allowable deadzone for anthropomorphic controls would be the measured jitter zone plus X% of that range either way to ensure smooth function of the algorithm, even if the actual joystick deadzone is different. This means that a small motion of the stick would still register on the control surfaces and not on the anthropomorphic control algorithm but it would be a very small one, not useful for combat but only for slight corrections during level flight or cruise.
It's not completely unrealistic either, it's like the pilot is holding the stick steady in level flight with his knees for a moment, while operating a couple of other controls with his hands ;)

2) Make it a custom-tailored function for each aircraft. If the aircraft had the oil and water rad controls right next to each other, or the flap and trim controls side by side (like the 109), or the throttles/pitch/mixture levers are side by side (every twin engined aircraft) in order to enable the pilot to operate them with a single hand then this should be reflected in the anthropomorphic control modeling: it should be possible to use such controls simultaneously with one hand.

However, if the oil rad control is on the left console of the cockpit and the water rad control is on the right one (again like the 109), or the water rad controls in a twin are rotating switches that have to be individually squeezed between a thumb and index finger and turned (like the 110) operating both at the same time should register as two hands being used and disable any input on the stick.

This is more or less what i would do if it was my choice:

Side by side levers: Throttles on a twin-engined plane, or throttle and mix/pitch for one engine at a time. Usable with just one hand if they are situated close enough (they usually are).

Close-by push-buttons or spring loaded switches: Usable with 2-3 fingers if they are part of the same section/instrument of the cockpit, they should count as one hand again.

Any of the above types of levers or switches/buttons that are more than an average hand's size away: Using them simultaneously counts as two hands.

Rotating switches: Since they need to be grabbed/held and rotated, operating more than one at any time should count as two hands being used and disable other inputs.

[II./JG1_Krupinski]

I found the same details as the OP, small amounts of input from the joystick axis' and I couldn't do much in the cockpit.

Should it be taken out? No, just don't use it. Many of us see the potential value added here and hope they don't take it out.

What I did was switch all the items on my axis (rotary and sliders) to three position switches. Middle position is no input, then the up and down took care of the movements. If you don't have a three position switch, you can use two buttons (IE: F for flaps moving up, V for flaps moving down).

Things I had on these dials and sliders, radiators, prop pitch, flaps, etc.