right wing keeps dipping down

[Doc_uk]

Controler warthog
I have set up most of my controler, but for some reason in flight, the right wing wants to keep dipping down
any advice help?
regards
josh

[JG52Uther]

Depending on the plane,you can set elevator,aileron and rudder trim in controls.
109 only has elevator trim,Spitfire has all three I think.

[Doc_uk]

Depending on the plane,you can set elevator,aileron and rudder trim in controls.
109 only has elevator trim,Spitfire has all three I think.
Ive done the aileron trim, and it re-levels , but it just keeps dipping down
and its hard work trying to keep it level lol

[JG52Uther]

Its the summer of 1940,of course its hard work! ;)

[Doc_uk]

Its the summer of 1940,of course its hard work! ;)
ok will try a few other planes see if it still happens with them
Do you live on these forums, im surprised you can find time to fly JG52Uther:grin:

[JG52Uther]

I spend more time talking about CoD than flying it,as I spend a lot of time working on a laptop :(

[Doc_uk]

I spend more time talking about CoD than flying it,as I spend a lot of time working on a laptop :(
Well you no what they say m8, Its good to talk :)

[minus10]

To confirm it's a trim issue due to wind, use trim to get level in one direction and then bank 90 degrees and level off. You should have to re-trim.

Even better, do a 180 degree turn and see if it's banking the other way.

If it's trim due to engine torque or similar, you can try turning that off and seeing how level you fly.

If you suspect it's the controller, disconnect that and fly with keys and check behaviour.

I thought I had a problem, but after a lot of flying around in several different aircraft, I am fairly convinced it is due to the FM and that you need to trim a fair amount to maintain S&L flight. The banking I find is countered well enough on Brit fighters with a touch of rudder trim.

It could well be observer error, but I noticed that my trim changed when flying straight from over land to over sea and crossing a fair distance. I would also have to re-trim after banked turns like above.

What I would love confirmed is how complex a wind model (if at all thus rendering all my fiddling moot) is employed. Trying to use fliers' tricks like looking at the smoke from a burning wreck (I'd use domestic chimneys or power stations in rl) doesn't seem to help as it always goes straight up. Likewise, clouds do not seem to drift so no help there.

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

there are options for keys or axes to use for trimming plus options for up 1 notch down 1 notch or level .im a complete beginner in trimming so which do you use and do you have to do it all through the flying,also my ch fighterstick in IL2 the wheels on the base let you trim the aileron and nose etc but this doesnt seem to work on this 1, also the wheels when i try to assign say its the same axes for ailerons so no seperate function,didnt do that with il2?
thanks lot of questions i know lol

[BlackbusheFlyer]

To confirm it's a trim issue due to wind, use trim to get level in one direction and then bank 90 degrees and level off. You should have to re-trim.

Even better, do a 180 degree turn and see if it's banking the other way.

If it's trim due to engine torque or similar, you can try turning that off and seeing how level you fly.

If you suspect it's the controller, disconnect that and fly with keys and check behaviour.

I thought I had a problem, but after a lot of flying around in several different aircraft, I am fairly convinced it is due to the FM and that you need to trim a fair amount to maintain S&L flight. The banking I find is countered well enough on Brit fighters with a touch of rudder trim.

It could well be observer error, but I noticed that my trim changed when flying straight from over land to over sea and crossing a fair distance. I would also have to re-trim after banked turns like above.

What I would love confirmed is how complex a wind model (if at all thus rendering all my fiddling moot) is employed. Trying to use fliers' tricks like looking at the smoke from a burning wreck (I'd use domestic chimneys or power stations in rl) doesn't seem to help as it always goes straight up. Likewise, clouds do not seem to drift so no help there.

Wind really does not effect an aircraft in flight unless you get am abrupt change of direction of the wind. The aircraft is flying in a body of air which is moving, so the main effect is the track the aircraft takes over the ground.

The reason for lateral trimming of an aircraft is largely related to the gyroscopic effect of the prop. At high revs it will cause the tendency to slowly drop a wing. Too prove the point, try reducing prop RPM and manifold pressure to a slow cruise and you will find the rudder input required to maintain straight and level flight is reduced.

To solve this most pilots either hold a little rudder or preferably tweak the rudder trim. Bare in mind, every change of RPM/Man Pressure will require re-trimming the aircraft, Power, Attitude, Trim is handy to remember.

It's the way it works in the real world.

[minus10]

Yes, you do need to maintain trim during flight as flight conditions change if you want your aircraft 'hands free' (i.e. so that you don't have to apply constant input pressures).

Trim wheels are much better than button clicks for fine trimming. I use a G940 and in the axes tab of the controls config was able to assign three trim wheels from the main stick to the three trim axes. Unless there is a specific issue with CH support, I would assume the method is the same and just double click the trim you want to assign on the right and then move the corresponding trim wheel on the stick. I did have to recalibrate the wheels first.

Likewise, out of the box, I had weird pedal assignment and just had to ensure that each control axes was assigned correctly in the same way. Somehow I had a throttle wheel assigned to rudder.

[minus10]

Wind really does not effect an aircraft in flight unless you get am abrupt change of direction of the wind. The aircraft is flying in a body of air which is moving, so the main effect is the track the aircraft takes over the ground.

The reason for lateral trimming of an aircraft is largely related to the gyroscopic effect of the prop. At high revs it will cause the tendency to slowly drop a wing. Too prove the point, try reducing prop RPM and manifold pressure to a slow cruise and you will find the rudder input required to maintain straight and level flight is reduced.

To solve this most pilots either hold a little rudder or preferably tweak the rudder trim. Bare in mind, every change of RPM/Man Pressure will require re-trimming the aircraft, Power, Attitude, Trim is handy to remember.

It's the way it works in the real world.

Indeed, that's what I would expect, I just wondered if the game FM/wind implementation got it right, and why I started trying to nail down the cause of the trim need.

I've solo'd in a glider so am used to having to trim but without an engine :) As you say, during flight if you change power and attitude (which I seem to do a lot in a sim such as this), your trim may well need changing.

The effect you talk about in regards to engine torque I have found most notable and most dangerous when at slow speed with flaps down coming in to land and you think you'd messed up the threshold and apply a touch of power and get it wrong. Too much and over she goes. It's not pretty. In a glider all I did was fondle the air break for power control and there was no torque in that :D

[BlackbusheFlyer]

Indeed, that's what I would expect, I just wondered if the game FM/wind implementation got it right, and why I started trying to nail down the cause of the trim need.

I've solo'd in a glider so am used to having to trim but without an engine :) As you say, during flight if you change power and attitude (which I seem to do a lot in a sim such as this), your trim may well need changing.

The effect you talk about in regards to engine torque I have found most notable and most dangerous when at slow speed with flaps down coming in to land and you think you'd messed up the threshold and apply a touch of power and get it wrong. Too much and over she goes. It's not pretty. In a glider all I did was fondle the air break for power control and there was no torque in that :D

I flew a glider many many years ago, was a fun experience. I have flown most commonly available prop planes at one time or another in my 20 year career. Certainly the real thing is much easier to trim than a simulator as you can not feel the stick or rudder pressure relaxing as you turn the trim wheels.

I have never had the pleasure of flying a real spit unfortunately however with that huge prop and a merlin to drive it the P-Factor would be fairly pronounced.

[StreetGang]

I was trying to trim the hurricane as it was also pulling annoyingly to the right, though I've read that the hurricane doesn't even have aileron trim, is that right ?

This was with wind turned off and no joystick plugged in. I had also wrongly mapped the 'notch' aileron right and left functions instead of the trim functions. So every time I'd move the yoke, from my perspective, the trim would reset and I was baffled until I figured out I wasn't actually trimming. Then even more annoyingly after I had mapped 'trim' it wasn't making an effect on the hurricanes ailerons anyway.

Are we supposed to fly the hurricane with a constant left leaning ?

[BadAim]

I was trying to trim the hurricane as it was also pulling annoyingly to the right, though I've read that the hurricane doesn't even have aileron trim, is that right ?

This was with wind turned off and no joystick plugged in. I had also wrongly mapped the 'notch' aileron right and left functions instead of the trim functions. So every time I'd move the yoke, from my perspective, the trim would reset and I was baffled until I figured out I wasn't actually trimming. Then even more annoyingly after I had mapped 'trim' it wasn't making an effect on the hurricanes ailerons anyway.

Are we supposed to fly the hurricane with a constant left leaning ?

I'm not sure about your gaming background, but COD is meant to be a flight simulator, and a simulator of the most powerful and dangerous machines of their day (they commonly killed their own pilots at alarming rates), irl these aircraft took many months of training to just fly competently, and even then few mastered them.

So, to answer your question simply........yes.

[b101uk]

I think you may find the constant slight turn to the right with the hurricane is because the rudder is from the off trimmed slightly to the right of centre rather than by default at 0 trim, if you trim the ruder (ctrl + z or x) it stops this constant slight turn to the right. ;)

[minus10]

I flew a glider many many years ago, was a fun experience. I have flown most commonly available prop planes at one time or another in my 20 year career. Certainly the real thing is much easier to trim than a simulator as you can not feel the stick or rudder pressure relaxing as you turn the trim wheels.

I have never had the pleasure of flying a real spit unfortunately however with that huge prop and a merlin to drive it the P-Factor would be fairly pronounced.

This is why I miss FFB. One of the first things I learned was to feel (and hear!) the buffet as you approached stall, and how to trim such that you could feel the controls go 'hands off'.

RoF is impressive in this respect and, when my engine is shot out, the closest experience I have had in a sim to gliding. I think the wind noise has a huge amount to do with this.

[StreetGang]

I'm not sure about your gaming background, but COD is meant to be a flight simulator, and a simulator of the most powerful and dangerous machines of their day (they commonly killed their own pilots at alarming rates), irl these aircraft took many months of training to just fly competently, and even then few mastered them.

So, to answer your question simply........yes.

Ah, well I wouldn't exactly call myself an overly hardcore simmer, I like to dabble mostly, with hopes of being hooked again. I started on LHX Attack Chopper and Chuck Yeager back in the day, moved on to 1942 Pacific Air War, Falcon 3 and US Navy Fighters, found the original IL2 and played that for a bit. In between 1946 sorties I've messed around with Lomac/Flaming Cliffs and recently have bought Blackshark and the new A-10 sim but I've yet to play them to any great degree. I completely passed by the Janes and SU27 games though. My favourite has to be 1942, even though IL2 is great, my fondest memories were with Pacific Air War, probably because it was my first real sim.

So yeah I do understand these machines are essentially bricks with wings that require some modicum of skill to operate.

Rudder trim seems to have helped a bit, I just wasn't using it enough.

Strangely, the 'quick flight - england free flight', I didn't have a problem with for 5 - 6 attempts before, now starts me off with a borked engine, flames coming out of the exhausts and oil splatted all over the pit after about 10 seconds, then the engine loses most of it's power, weird.

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

Yes, you do need to maintain trim during flight as flight conditions change if you want your aircraft 'hands free' (i.e. so that you don't have to apply constant input pressures).

Trim wheels are much better than button clicks for fine trimming. I use a G940 and in the axes tab of the controls config was able to assign three trim wheels from the main stick to the three trim axes. Unless there is a specific issue with CH support, I would assume the method is the same and just double click the trim you want to assign on the right and then move the corresponding trim wheel on the stick. I did have to recalibrate the wheels first.

Likewise, out of the box, I had weird pedal assignment and just had to ensure that each control axes was assigned correctly in the same way. Somehow I had a throttle wheel assigned to rudder.

thankyou

[Doc_uk]

Well i think, that this is not right, ive seen some vids of other user flying cod, and there aircraft control is almost rock steady, but no matter what i try, these planes always want to dip, turn right, this sim should not be this hard to control
I can understand some you are saying, But, this is how its ment to be, well if i was flying these fighter in relal life then i would bloody land and tell my crew to sort it out :)

Can we get any offical word from the makers, that this is how its meant to be or
is there a problem?

I have just tested all fighters in this game, and every one dips to the right constantly.
Tested the bomber and they are ok.....

[BlackbusheFlyer]

Well i think, that this is not right, ive seen some vids of other user flying cod, and there aircraft control is almost rock steady, but no matter what i try, these planes always want to dip, turn right, this sim should not be this hard to control
I can understand some you are saying, But, this is how its ment to be, well if i was flying these fighter in relal life then i would bloody land and tell my crew to sort it out :)

Can we get any offical word from the makers, that this is how its meant to be or
is there a problem?

I have just tested all fighters in this game, and every one dips to the right constantly.
Tested the bomber and they are ok.....

In real life it is effortless to trim a plane out, in fact I do it without thinking about it. In a simulator however it's much more difficult as there is no 'feel'. The effect is very much real though. Many aerobatic types with large power plants and sizable props often need constant rudder to counter the P factor.

A twin prop usually has contra rotating props which counteract yaw so you should notice no right turn tendancy.

What I do is keep on a bit of rudder, as trimming in either FSX or IL2 is a bit like chasing your own tail. In a real plane I can hold an altitude to 20 ft or so and a heading to a couple of degrees, in all but the most turbulent conditions. In a sim I am much less accurate. With practice you should get to know how much rudder pressure to hold for a given power setting. Hope that helps.

[Peril]

Wind really does not effect an aircraft in flight unless you get am abrupt change of direction of the wind. The aircraft is flying in a body of air which is moving, so the main effect is the track the aircraft takes over the ground.

The reason for lateral trimming of an aircraft is largely related to the gyroscopic effect of the prop. At high revs it will cause the tendency to slowly drop a wing. Too prove the point, try reducing prop RPM and manifold pressure to a slow cruise and you will find the rudder input required to maintain straight and level flight is reduced.

To solve this most pilots either hold a little rudder or preferably tweak the rudder trim. Bare in mind, every change of RPM/Man Pressure will require re-trimming the aircraft, Power, Attitude, Trim is handy to remember.

It's the way it works in the real world.

So rare to find a man who knows his stuff in this world ;)

It's like belting your head against a brick wall trying to explain this, so few programmers seemed to understand it in the past. Hopefully IL2 staff understand the concept of wind as a moving box of air ;)

[Megatherion]

I am having the same problem, even with all realism settings turned off. All speeds and altitudes and trim settings, the plane constantly banks right. I noticed that in the no cockpit view(ctrl F1), the very bottom left HUD "ball" that show the stick position shows the ball a tiny bit to the right of center, thus the right banking. Another thing I found is that when I hold the joystick a tiny bit left and get the ball centered and the plane flying level, then pause, then let go of the stick, then unpause, the plane flies level until any stick input is given, then it's back to banking right again. I tried 2 joysticks, Saitek X65F ($400) and Logitech Extreme 3D Pro ($10) and the same thing on both sticks.Trim has absolutely no effect on this banking. Sure hope this gets fixed.

[robtek]

It is not a bug!!! It is a feature!!!


:D :D :D

[Megatherion]

I would have no problem with this if the torque and gyro realism effects were turned on, but with all realism effects turned off, the plane should be able to fly level with hands off. I unplugged all my joysticks and flew with the keyboard (yuck!) and the problem is still there. Does everyone have this problem or is it just a few of us, can anyone fly hands off straight and level(applying trim as needed) with the spitfire or hurricane?