From tiny to huge, the future of gaming and potential.

[Heliocon]

I wanted to post this because I think its a good story about what a small band of devs can acheive. I played EVE-Online for four or so years, but havent been active for coming up to two years now. If you know about the company, they started out as a bunch of guys (under 15) who had a dream of making a space mmorpg. They worked the last 4 or so months before release without any pay, one of them even mortaged his parents house to get it out the door. Upon release it was a flop, hardly any subscribers. They didnt give up and kept working at it, adding and fixing content, and giving their famous free expansions including a total revamp of the games graphical engine. When I started playing server pop maxed out at 22k or so at peak time. Now they are over 50k online at peak and have I believe over 300k subscribers. They are a huge success, and icelands biggest IT company. They have offices in Iceland, UK, US, and China. This is company went from rags to ruins but what kept the subscribers and players active was the devs close community involvement and bonds, and their commitment to provide a great experience and not nickle and dime the players. They now have a seconnd MMORPG underway, a FPS aswell as eve itself and a new dx10/dx11 only integrated character system for eve players in station and inside their ships. The next step is they are linking their FPS Dust514 to eve, console players on the ground work for eve players as mercenaries. http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/03/26/eve-online-a-future-vision-trailer-shows-a-future-vision-of-eve-online/

The reason I am posting this is because I believe there is alot in common with the IL2 series and EVE. They are both very much "niche" games, yet eve has expanded its tiny market segment into the second biggest mmorpg community in the world. Both companies have humble beginings but over time built on success and created great followings. Even more then that, if integration between different genres of pc gaming works, it works in WW2! Now I am not saying this should happen now, or even be seriously considerd. I am just trying to make a point in that COD has huge potential if the devs iron it out, promote it properly and attract a wide audience - NOT by dumbing it down, but by getting exposure and showing people who previously had 0 interest in flight sims, that they are actually really fun.

In the long run, who knows - maybe one day we will get a call over the radio requesting close air support?

[ElAurens]

Following the history of SoW/CoD I think it is pretty clear that Oleg intended for it to have a ground based (fps) component at some point in future. Merely looking at the details of the vehicles and ground objects makes this abundantly clear.

Of course none of this will come to pass if we all run around screaming about how bad the initial release is and refuse to purchase it. Yes, I have changed my stance and now will indeed have the sim on day of release in the US.

This (CoD) is the most ambitious release in the history of WW2 flight simulation, and for reasons that remain unknown to us, it has seemingly been pushed out the door too soon.

So, what do we do to bring about the end result we all want? Point accusatory fingers at both publishers and the dev team? No. What good will that do in the end? They are all under enough pressure as it is. And don't think that I'm saying that real constructive criticism should be quashed. I'm not. But constantly hammering 1C, UBI, and Maddox Games over problems that they are already painfully aware of serves no good purpose.

I have spoken to a couple players who are now using the Russian version. These are old hands at the sim, and far from "fanboys". Their verdict? Yes there are many problems, but, the things that are good still overshadow the current teething problems. Both of them have encouraged our little group of players to buy the sim, because the potential is so great. And that is what we intend to do.

If CoD fails, the future of WW2 combat flight simulation goes down with it.

We, as the consumers, have the power to keep that from happening.

Call me a fanboy if you want, I don't really care, but I intend to be flying this sim well into my mid 60's.

You can come along for the ride or not. But why miss out on the fun.

Life is too short.

[Deadstick]

+1 on those sentiments.

I will still be buying it on release day (April 1st on Steam for this part of the world).

I believe that Maddox games will come up with solutions to all these problems, and they will have my money as a token of support.

Was IL 2 perfect when it first came out? That is what patches are for.

I was thinking about getting the Russian version from YuPlay, but I will wait and see how the rest of the world release turns out.

[kestrel79]

I'm with you guys too. I'll admit the fps have looked a bit rough but still some of the stuff I'm seeing is blowing my mind.

I'll buy it on steam day 1 US release. It's only going to get better...

[Codex]

If CoD fails, the future of WW2 combat flight simulation goes down with it.

Not really mate. I can assure you there are other garage developers out there coding away in their spare time wanting to recreate that era of flight combat.

[Space Communist]

Not really mate. I can assure you there are other garage developers out there coding away in their spare time wanting to recreate that era of flight combat.

If this game fails we will be playing IL-2 for the next 5 years, at least. There's nothing else even on the radar.

Some random guy in a garage is not going to do a better job than what we have here.

[MadBlaster]

Not really mate. I can assure you there are other garage developers out there coding away in their spare time wanting to recreate that era of flight combat.

Hi Codex.:grin:

[Codex]

If this game fails we will be playing IL-2 for the next 5 years, at least. There's nothing else even on the radar.

Some random guy in a garage is not going to do a better job than what we have here.

How do you think Oleg started IL-2?

[Codex]

hi codex.:grin:

lol

[MadBlaster]

lol

Release date???;)

[Space Communist]

How do you think Oleg started IL-2?

Sure, but ok if there is an Oleg II waiting in the wings somewhere, we can guarantee it will be years and years before he gives us his masterpiece.

It's this or nothing so we're just going to have to support it as best we can.

[IAF_Phantom]

+1 on those sentiments.

I will still be buying it on release day (April 1st on Steam for this part of the world).

I believe that Maddox games will come up with solutions to all these problems, and they will have my money as a token of support.

Was IL 2 perfect when it first came out? That is what patches are for.

I was thinking about getting the Russian version from YuPlay, but I will wait and see how the rest of the world release turns out.
+1

And I'm pushing that the whole IAF will be there to fly in these skies as soon as possible.

[Blackdog_kt]

No offense Heliocon, but i can now realize where your at times aggressive forum posting comes from :-P

I've been an EvE player in the past and if you guys think that the sim community is cranky, you really have no idea how things work over there.

That doesn't detract from the fact that EvE Online was an awesome game (at least when i started playing, i got bored when they started making bigger and bigger stuff that took longer to build).

In fact this parallel you draw is very sound and it does hold a lot of merit, even if the genre and business model is fundamentally different.

EvE became a success by being player-driven in almost all aspects (from development of new features to actual storyline) and due to the fact that it's a perfectly affordable hobby. Back when i used to play they charged a $15/month flat rate that included everything (patches, minor content updates, full-on expansions, the whole nine yards), which is a much more customer friendly way than other MMO games do business ("hey, to play with the new equipment your subscription is not enough, you have to buy a $60 expansion too").

This is what i always liked about Oleg's system as well, i prefer to pay $50 for a complete expansion and have the tools to recreate a new theater of air combat right off the installation disc, rather spend the same money on hunting down individual bits and pieces that are sold as stand-alone DLC packs. Even if the price is the same, having the complete package is always better for me.

[Heliocon]

No offense Heliocon, but i can now realize where your at times aggressive forum posting comes from :-P

I've been an EvE player in the past and if you guys think that the sim community is cranky, you really have no idea how things work over there.

That doesn't detract from the fact that EvE Online was an awesome game (at least when i started playing, i got bored when they started making bigger and bigger stuff that took longer to build).

In fact this parallel you draw is very sound and it does hold a lot of merit, even if the genre and business model is fundamentally different.

EvE became a success by being player-driven in almost all aspects (from development of new features to actual storyline) and due to the fact that it's a perfectly affordable hobby. Back when i used to play they charged a $15/month flat rate that included everything (patches, minor content updates, full-on expansions, the whole nine yards), which is a much more customer friendly way than other MMO games do business ("hey, to play with the new equipment your subscription is not enough, you have to buy a $60 expansion too").

This is what i always liked about Oleg's system as well, i prefer to pay $50 for a complete expansion and have the tools to recreate a new theater of air combat right off the installation disc, rather spend the same money on hunting down individual bits and pieces that are sold as stand-alone DLC packs. Even if the price is the same, having the complete package is always better for me.

I was very polite, I always said "thank you" once I killed and then looted the person's wreck... I swear! ;)

[Richie]

Was IL-2 2001 pretty much perfect when it came out....For it's time I would say 95% of perfect. It's lack of bigger German bombers was the only let down I think. The Stuka came along in an early patch with the F4 and Emil but never a 110 Heinkle III or Ju-88. The only other thing I can think of is it was entirely the Russian front witch wasn't a problem for me but may have been for some who wanted to fly American or British aeroplanes and Western arenas.

An old review

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/sim/il2sturmovik/review.html

[CharveL]

Well said, El. I knew you'd come around.

And I think a lot of the criticisms are merited based on what we've seen so far but that won't stop me from supporting the process.

[Richie]

Following the history of SoW/CoD I think it is pretty clear that Oleg intended for it to have a ground based (fps) component at some point in future. Merely looking at the details of the vehicles and ground objects makes this abundantly clear.

Of course none of this will come to pass if we all run around screaming about how bad the initial release is and refuse to purchase it. Yes, I have changed my stance and now will indeed have the sim on day of release in the US.

This (CoD) is the most ambitious release in the history of WW2 flight simulation, and for reasons that remain unknown to us, it has seemingly been pushed out the door too soon.

So, what do we do to bring about the end result we all want? Point accusatory fingers at both publishers and the dev team? No. What good will that do in the end? They are all under enough pressure as it is. And don't think that I'm saying that real constructive criticism should be quashed. I'm not. But constantly hammering 1C, UBI, and Maddox Games over problems that they are already painfully aware of serves no good purpose.

I have spoken to a couple players who are now using the Russian version. These are old hands at the sim, and far from "fanboys". Their verdict? Yes there are many problems, but, the things that are good still overshadow the current teething problems. Both of them have encouraged our little group of players to buy the sim, because the potential is so great. And that is what we intend to do.

If CoD fails, the future of WW2 combat flight simulation goes down with it.

We, as the consumers, have the power to keep that from happening.

Call me a fanboy if you want, I don't really care, but I intend to be flying this sim well into my mid 60's.

You can come along for the ride or not. But why miss out on the fun.

Life is too short.


agree

[Luftrofl]

I hope it ends up being like WWII Online only better. Infantry, armor, and air simulator all in one.

[SlipBall]

The future is that the spit chick gets pregnant, her son a natural ace:-P

[ElAurens]

Well said, El. I knew you'd come around.

And I think a lot of the criticisms are merited based on what we've seen so far but that won't stop me from supporting the process.

Thanks Charv.

[Heliocon]

The future is that the spit chick gets pregnant, her son a natural ace:-P

Ding, score! You are an ace.

uhh thatsoundedbetterinmyheadandtherewasnopunintendedt hisisawkwardIwillstoptypinglikethisnowandifyougott hisfaryouneedsomethingbettertodothantotryandreadth is!

[Zoom2136]

I hope it ends up being like WWII Online only better. Infantry, armor, and air simulator all in one.

Don't forget the navy!!!!

And I would gladly pay 10$ or 20$ / month for that!!!!

[Heliocon]

I would like to note an important differance here between the two companies though. In eve (less so now since its so huge) the devs frequently chatted with players on the forums. Had many many dev blogs and updates, engaged the player base and formed a community.

That seems to be completely lacking here, I have seen only a handfull of dev posts in 6 months (I would say around 5).

[Space Communist]

I would like to note an important differance here between the two companies though. In eve (less so now since its so huge) the devs frequently chatted with players on the forums. Had many many dev blogs and updates, engaged the player base and formed a community.

That seems to be completely lacking here, I have seen only a handfull of dev posts in 6 months (I would say around 5).

Umm, that is probably the extent of the devs that speak any English so really who can blame them.

[Heliocon]

Umm, that is probably the extent of the devs that speak any English so really who can blame them.

They need to hire a community manager, or recruit someone who is bi-lingual.