Anti-epilepsy filter?

[carguy_]

Well said.
Way to go Ubi. Let's put a knife in the eye of 99% of people to please the 1%. Some credit should also go to the crazy Ameerikan legal system for allowing ridiculous legal cases.


Funny you brought it up, because the majority of Europe is nothing like the American legal system! I for ona am 90% sure that in my country a lawsuit in such case wouldn`t hold up. And Ubi is somehow assuming that it would lose every single case over a lack of such epilepsy filter.

[Herra Tohtori]

Ok, after sleeping a bit I can take a more rational look into this.

My earlier comments still hold true: This type of blanket policy from Ubisoft is silly, there is virtually no chance of litigation anyway if the seizure risk is clearly announced in the product. Optional filter to reduce the thing would be laudable. There is also no way to safeguard against photosensitive epileptic seizures completely, so probably somewhere, at some time, will suffer a seizure anyway looking at the filtered game, so I don't know what protects Ubi from litigation there.

However, like some in this thread have pointed out, we have only heard the developer's version of the events so far. While I want to give them the benefit of doubt considering they are the ones with most intimate knowledge of their game, I would wait to hear back from Ubisoft as well on this issue.

I'm not cancelling my order, at least not at this point. I'm fairly confident that at some point the game will run smoothly on a modern PC. What I am more concerned of is that the anti-epileptic measures will disfigure the realistic graphics - things like propeller effects and the like, which tend to be flickery in real life (making them nonflickery and "epileptic-safe" would make them look worse). Even then, simply an option to switch that off to achieve better looking results would be preferred option.



Oh and by the way, games and videos don't cause the sensitivity to epileptic seizures. They simply act as a trigger for people who have that sensitivity. Blaming them for causing seizures is foolish, much like blaming peanuts for peanut allergy.

In fact, instead of screening games and video for their tendency to cause epileptic seizures, it would be better to screen people for their tendency to suffer photosensitive epileptic seizures. What better way to find out than expose them to situations that can trigger it - in safe environment rather than wait until they get a car and drive along a road with trees on the side and the sun shining from the side, flickering on and off between the trees, causing them to get an absentia seizure and veering to the opposite side of the road or hitting pedestrians or whatever?

Or, as one of my friends pointed out, if they're walking on the street, see an ambulance with flashing blue lights, collapse on the street and get run down by a truck?

There are much more dangerous spots to find out you're susceptible to photosensitive epileptic seizures than while playing a video game. In that light, the fixation to video games and their risks seems disproportionate.

Oh and much like epileptic seizures, oversensitivity to something like peanuts can develop sort of silently, and then when a person is exposed to peanuts, they go into anaphylactic shock and can die seemingly out of nowhere.

That doesn't mean removing peanuts from all products is necessary. It is a good reason to keep track on where peanuts are used, and mark not only products that contain peanuts, but those manufactured on lines where peanuts are also used. This is a standard in food industry, and it's sufficient for them to put a small label in food products that might have traces of peanuts.

So, if Ubisoft's policy really is a blanket statement to refuse releasing any games that fail some arbitrary epilepsy screening, I find that utterly ridiculous.

Waiting to hear back from Ubi via Ms.Kleaneasy, and hoping that a sensible solution can be achieved despite how unlikely it's looking just now.

[swiss]

The other solution here seems to be that I should tell him that no, you can't play computer games ever in your life even if all your friends do it all the time. That is not for you, go can go play on the yard outside instead...

Afaik there are other triggers as well.
What about Strobos? Every Disco has them.

:confused:

[jimbop]

According to the article referred to by Tree, there IS NO legal requirement to implement such a filter.

That's why it's called 'voluntary'. Ubi's choice and given then 2008 lawsuit I can understand why (short review here (http://www.joystiq.com/2008/06/12/mom-wins-her-fight-in-rayman-raving-rabbids-epilepsy-ordeal/)). If you want to publish with them you have to do it their way. Not to mention the public health angle.

[KeyCat]

UBI's "Silent Hunter 5" was a sim I was looking forward to greatly (bought 3 and 4). I cancelled the pre-order when I found out about the constant-connection-to-UBI-servers. Rise of Flight I also skipped.


Same for me and I unless I can buy a Steam free and filter free version of IL-2: CoD somewhere I will skip this one as well...

To bad UBI continue to act like morons, it affect us flightsim fans as well as 1CMaddox!

:mad:

/KC

[jimbop]

My guess is it is probably down to poor communication on both sides and a late understanding that CoD wasn't going to pass Ubi's QA. You can imagine the awful moment of realisation! This was probably there since 2008 but no one from Ubi thought to make sure 1C understood it - hardly a late policy change or anything like that I think.

I haven't cancelled my steam pre-order yet. I am hoping that we will see some decent vids emerge from Russia over the next couple of days showing settings tweaks (disable this, modify that) that remove the game-stopping problems in the short term. Then optimisation patches should cure it properly over the coming months.

Anyway, the Australia release is April 1 (yeah, you US guys aren't feeling so bad about the delay now, huh?) so enough time to wait and see.

[MicroWave]

...So should I let him play computer games or not, for the rest of his life?...

That's your decision to make until he is old enough to make this decision for himself. That's what all the parents do. People (children included) have all sort of disabilities and live with them. This forum is not the right place to ask for parenting advice.
It makes me sad to hear that your child has problems, but bringing this up again and again is pathetic.

[mazex]

That's your decision to make until he is old enough to make this decision for himself. That's what all the parents do. People (children included) have all sort of disabilities and live with them. This forum is not the right place to ask for parenting advice.
It makes me sad to hear that your child has problems, but bringing this up again and again is pathetic.

Pathetic? Thanks for that.

[mazex]

Afaik there are other triggers as well.
What about Strobos? Every Disco has them.

:confused:

Even if they are cutting down on them for the same reasons (government recommendations etc) I have 10 years of testing until that problem comes into play ;)

[Tree_UK]

That's your decision to make until he is old enough to make this decision for himself. That's what all the parents do. People (children included) have all sort of disabilities and live with them. This forum is not the right place to ask for parenting advice.
It makes me sad to hear that your child has problems, but bringing this up again and again is pathetic.

You should be ashamed with that statement, really you should.

[Shrike_UK]

Just posting this here as i havent noticed any mention of it.
http://www.mcvuk.com/features/808/OPINION-Retail-vs-Steam

Also hasnt it also been mentioned that the code changes to IL2 CloD were irreversable. This means that the dev team will have to work extremely hard wit the restrictions going forward. I know a bit about software development, and when a developer says its irreversable, they mean it. You cant just add an option, cant just add it back in, its gone forever because to reintroduce it may break all other existing code, and cause a complete re-write.

We can only hope that FPS will be worked on, and the title will be salvageable with optimisations somehow in the form of patches.

[jimbop]

You should be ashamed with that statement, really you should.

+1. And anyway, mazex is right on topic - have you even read the thread title, MicroWave?

[swiss]

Even if they are cutting down on them for the same reasons (government recommendations etc)


http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/konfus/c020.gif

http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/boese/a015.gif


I think I should check the turn signals of my car, I'm afraid the the could flash to fast...

[swiss]

You should be ashamed with that statement, really you should.

Reality check: failed.
He's right.

[brando]

My earlier comments still hold true: This type of blanket policy from Ubisoft is silly, there is virtually no chance of litigation anyway if the seizure risk is clearly announced in the product. Optional filter to reduce the thing would be laudable. There is also no way to safeguard against photosensitive epileptic seizures completely, so probably somewhere, at some time, will suffer a seizure anyway looking at the filtered game, so I don't know what protects Ubi from litigation there.

However, like some in this thread have pointed out, we have only heard the developer's version of the events so far. While I want to give them the benefit of doubt considering they are the ones with most intimate knowledge of their game, I would wait to hear back from Ubisoft as well on this issue.

I'm not cancelling my order, at least not at this point. I'm fairly confident that at some point the game will run smoothly on a modern PC. What I am more concerned of is that the anti-epileptic measures will disfigure the realistic graphics - things like propeller effects and the like, which tend to be flickery in real life (making them nonflickery and "epileptic-safe" would make them look worse). Even then, simply an option to switch that off to achieve better looking results would be preferred option.



Oh and by the way, games and videos don't cause the sensitivity to epileptic seizures. They simply act as a trigger for people who have that sensitivity. Blaming them for causing seizures is foolish, much like blaming peanuts for peanut allergy.

In fact, instead of screening games and video for their tendency to cause epileptic seizures, it would be better to screen people for their tendency to suffer photosensitive epileptic seizures. What better way to find out than expose them to situations that can trigger it - in safe environment rather than wait until they get a car and drive along a road with trees on the side and the sun shining from the side, flickering on and off between the trees, causing them to get an absentia seizure and veering to the opposite side of the road or hitting pedestrians or whatever?

Or, as one of my friends pointed out, if they're walking on the street, see an ambulance with flashing blue lights, collapse on the street and get run down by a truck?

There are much more dangerous spots to find out you're susceptible to photosensitive epileptic seizures than while playing a video game. In that light, the fixation to video games and their risks seems disproportionate.

Oh and much like epileptic seizures, oversensitivity to something like peanuts can develop sort of silently, and then when a person is exposed to peanuts, they go into anaphylactic shock and can die seemingly out of nowhere.

That doesn't mean removing peanuts from all products is necessary. It is a good reason to keep track on where peanuts are used, and mark not only products that contain peanuts, but those manufactured on lines where peanuts are also used. This is a standard in food industry, and it's sufficient for them to put a small label in food products that might have traces of peanuts.

So, if Ubisoft's policy really is a blanket statement to refuse releasing any games that fail some arbitrary epilepsy screening, I find that utterly ridiculous.

Waiting to hear back from Ubi via Ms.Kleaneasy, and hoping that a sensible solution can be achieved despite how unlikely it's looking just now.

Thank you for providing a rational overview of the situation. I would also like to see a sensible solution for this latest barrier to the new game.

[MicroWave]

Pathetic? Thanks for that.

You're welcome.
If you need more parenting tips use the PM.

[mazex]

Reality check: failed.
He's right.

Who is right?

[MicroWave]

You should be ashamed with that statement, really you should.

Why is that?

[swiss]

Who is right?

The oven.

When I grew up, having a disability had an impact on the affected person, however, they could expect the rest to show some consideration.

In 21st century it seems having a disability has an even stronger affects on the rest and limits their life.

[Herra Tohtori]

Is there truly a need to descend on personal level in this discussion?

I think the facts of the matter are quite sufficient to render anyone miserable without mixing in any interpersonal arguments.

[mazex]

Is there truly a need to descend on personal level in this discussion?

I think the facts of the matter are quite sufficient to render anyone miserable without mixing in any interpersonal arguments.

Well, for some weird reason I brought a real world example into a thread that is about anti-epilepsy protection. I think that is on topic? I can only guess that swiss and micro have no kids - or at least they have not been staying at a hospital for months not knowing if you kid has serious brain damage... And in this case the example fits perfectly as this is what it is all about. Every time my kid play a game I do feel a bit anxious about if it could cause some problem that has been "sleeping" for years to wake up. And I will continue to have that anxiety for the rest of my life I guess. So when Ubisoft and many other publishers are forced to listen to lobbyists and government recommendations and that is mocked here I do feel a bit concerned...

And then being called pathetic just makes me little tiny bit disappointed...

[swiss]

Is there truly a need to descend on personal level in this discussion?

I think the facts of the matter are quite sufficient to render anyone miserable without mixing in any interpersonal arguments.

True.

I think I will just relax and wait for the benchmarks to drop in.


Could take a moment to cool down though, meltdown was close...;)

[Moggy]

The oven.

When I grew up, having a disability had an impact on the affected person, however, they could expect the rest to show some consideration.

In 21st century it seems having a disability has an even stronger affects on the rest and limits their life.

And being disabled I don't find your comments insulting in the slightest.

[Herra Tohtori]

Well, for some weird reason I brought a real world example into a thread that is about anti-epilepsy protection. I think that is on topic? I can only guess that swiss and micro have no kids - or at least they have not been staying at a hospital for months not knowing if you kid has serious brain damage... And in this case the example fits perfectly as this is what it is all about. Every time my kid play a game I do feel a bit anxious about if it could cause some problem that has been "sleeping" for years to wake up. And I will continue to have that anxiety for the rest of my life I guess. So when Ubisoft and many other publishers are forced to listen to lobbyists and government recommendations and that is mocked here I do feel a bit concerned...

And then being called pathetic just makes me little tiny bit disappointed...

Much as I sympathize with you, I can't help but point out that there's almost no common denominator between congenital epilepsy of a newborn child and photosensitive epileptic seizures triggered by a video game.

I don't expect people with serious sensitivity to visually triggered seizures to be able to play many video games at all, regardless of what measures are taken to prevent the induction seizures by the game. If they do play a video game while aware of the associated health issues, it becomes their responsibility (or their parents', in case of minor person).

I'm not trying to say that an epileptic person shouldn't or can't enjoy a gaming experience, as every person's brain is different. What I am saying is that handicapping the game because of a limited gain to a very limited demographics is both logically and economically senseless.

The demographic that would most benefit of this kind of thing are the people who have a dormant sensitivity to seizures, being unaware of it. In that case, sure, introducing anti-epileptic measures might postpone the manifestation of the problem or, with good luck, prevent it - but the sensitivity will be there, known or unknown, and some factor could activate it at a much worse time than while playing a video game.

Know thyself, as the Pythagorans are reputed to have said.

After all is said and done, the video game is no more culpable of the seizure than the person who's having it. Blaming the video game is a symptom of profound misunderstanding of the problem - games and videos can't trigger a seizure if the exposed person doesn't already have the sensitivity for it (either genetic or acquired*), and conversely no filtering can prevent seizures in people who are heavily sensitive to such a thing.

Like said before, I'd be completely fine with anti-epileptic measures, if it weren't for the alleged loss of performance and visual quality.

As it stands, though, it seems like a big loss for limited or no gain, and like has been pointed out in the thread, the stuttering and low FPS in general could possibly be even worse for people with PES... and sure as hell detrimental to the enjoyment factor for everyone who plays the game.


But, I'm going to adapt a wait and see approach. 34.90 euros isn't that big a money, and assuming the game will be patched into playable condition, it'll eventually be worth it.

I doubt my computer could run it very well at this point anyway, so the problem isn't critical for me especially, but I bet people with brand new SLI/Crossfire setups are going to be bummed beyond belief.


*by acquired I mean changes to brain as a result of physical injury, illness, narcotics or other factors such as a proton beam through head (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoli_Bugorski). Sensory stimulation alone can hardly account for the neural changes that are associated with epileptic symptoms.

[mwolf]

Just read 28 pages

only thing I can say is why did they published the simulation if they knew that there is a problem, you can not convince me that they did not know it.
We waited so many years for it we could waited a motnh or two more.

I will get it that is for sure, only question is when?

[MD_Titus]

28 pages, 95% waaaahmbulance rating, how many posting have actually laid hands on the game? Or even on vids that had full context (hardware and graphics setting) with them? And to cap it all some are even taking the piss out of people with epilepsy, or showing the kind of disregard that would be welcome in an einzatzgruppen clearing out homes for the handicapped 70 years ago.

This place disgusts me.

Get a frigging grip. If this is the biggest and most important thing in your life, then you'd be better off stepping under a train than waiting for it's release and patches.

[the Dutchman]

This place disgusts me.

We are all nerds and LOVIN' IT!:mrgreen:

[Hecke]

We CANNOT make these optional.

Sure you can, just let it switched on by default.

That can't be the future that hardware demanding games have to struggle with such bullshit and that high end hardware (SLI, ...) even causes issues.
Laughable ...

P.S: Most people told ya that UBI sucks balls, but you go for it. Here's the cashback.

[Tvrdi]

email sent to getgames asking for cancelling order.....it was meant to be a happy week....will see how the things will go......damn UBI...Oleg made a deal with the devil...

btw as I can see ppl are cancelling orders on mass....at least according to posts at UBI...and I think this time its not just pretending...I just hope UBI will not kill COD.....with their retarded decisions...

[Hecke]

I cancelled my order, too.

No money from me to support this crap. Either get this XXXX optional or make it possible for people from other countries to get a version (1C?) which has this optional and has english language or no money from me and many others.

[T}{OR]

We will probably never know, but I can't keep wondering WHY was UBICrap chosen as a publisher, AGAIN?!

And more importantly - why did the development team agree on implementing this? We knew already that UBI is no good, but wasn't there a way out of this mess?

Provided that the first 2 could have not been different / better - why wasn't it delayed further?? This will only hurt sales and has a terrible chance to hurt the new series in the making.


Will post this in a separate thread.

[swiss]

btw as I can see ppl are cancelling orders on mass....at least according to posts at ubi...and I think this time its not just pretending...

That's gonna be sooo much fun for the stores who made their preorders based on customers preorders.

[bw_wolverine]

Too sad about the state of affairs to go back and check through the previous posts, but here it is again if so:

Kotaku reports on the issue.

http://kotaku.com/#!5785573/russian-devs-blame-antiseizure-requirements-for-crummy-sturmovik

[MadTommy]

i havent order it yet.. but had planned to get it when released.. think i'll wait now. I can't say the graphics i've seen look that impressive, bit dissapointed.

Will await better feedback/reviews.

[bw_wolverine]

+1 Great Promition, by the way ! (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1808573)

I edited the title of that thread after cooling off a little since last night. I want this to be fixed. I'm just frustrated and sad by it.

I have nothing against measures designed to help people, but this seems like mandating all dogs to be shaved bare because some people have allergies.

Or forcing only one person to ride an elevator at a time because some people are really overweight.

Or making all restaurants in the world never serve anything with peanuts because someone with a peanut allergy might order PEANUT SURPRISE by mistake.

Please please please make this an option that those of us who don't suffer from epilepsy aren't made to resent those who do.

[Longy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwOW8fnL5F0
It seems to be running smooth there, and it probably runs better when he's not recording.

[swiss]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwOW8fnL5F0
It seems to be running smooth there, and it probably runs better when he's not recording.

It's not, he said it only looks fluent in the vid - in rl it somewhat hangs every 2 secs.

[bw_wolverine]

It's not, he said it only looks fluent in the vid - in rl it somewhat hangs every 2 secs.

Maybe load the youtube video with a 56.6kbps modem and it will be more realistic? :P

[T_O_A_D]

WTF!

Make it clickable, so those of us willing to ride without a helmet can Dammit!!!

Put a dam warning label, and a splash screen in it, and get the thing released!

[joker68]

I have nothing against measures designed to help people, but this seems like mandating all dogs to be shaved bare because some people have allergies.

Manual will be provided in Braille only, too.
:evil:
Question: the russian version have this anti-epileptic feature optional, really? Can someone confirm this?

[swiss]

Actually this topic made me google "epileptisy test".

You'll get some funny results like this: WARNING NOT FOR EPILEPTICS (http://fletchowns.net/what.html)

Not suited for drunks either... lol

[Hecke]

Actually this topic made me google "epileptisy test".

You'll get some funny results like this: WARNING NOT FOR EPILEPTICS (http://fletchowns.net/what.html)

Not suited for drunks either... lol


How do I know if i'm epileptic?

What would happen watching this if I were?

[swiss]

How do I know if i'm epileptic?

What would happen watching this if I were?

You'd probably have to record yourself while watching it.
Ever heard of google?

It was more some kind of sick joke though. ;)

[C_G]

I wonder how many lawsuits have been filed against UBI in the decade since Il2 was first released?

Certainly the old 109 MK108 cannon flash [for those who remember the blinding wall of flame] would have triggered some poor soul to have a seizure... /jk

[easyhomewin]

XXXX, better get cracking with a patch

[Borsch]

It's not, he said it only looks fluent in the vid - in rl it somewhat hangs every 2 secs.

Did you all notice that propellers are damn near INVISIBLE from inside the cockpit? When rpms change- they stay invisible- and that is completely irreversible due to epilepsy rules - quoting Ilya here.:(:-x

[swiss]

Did you all notice that propellers are damn near INVISIBLE from inside the cockpit? When rpms change- they stay invisible- and that is completely irreversible due to epilepsy rules - quoting Ilya here.:(:-x

Biggest bummer. Those effects will never come back even with optimized framerate.

I am so p*ssed.

[PeterPanPan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwOW8fnL5F0
It seems to be running smooth there, and it probably runs better when he's not recording.

Nice vid, thanks for posting. PC spec please?

[swiss]

Nice vid, thanks for posting. PC spec please?

Read the thread. Or the YT comment.

[Trumper]

In the UK if a TV programme or news report has flashing photography in it they give a verbal warning that it contains flash photography
Surely if they can broadcast live to millions all at once a sim/game is capable of issuing a warning so that anyone carrying on past the warning accepts responsibility of their own actions.

[PeterPanPan]

28 pages, 95% waaaahmbulance rating, how many posting have actually laid hands on the game? Or even on vids that had full context (hardware and graphics setting) with them? And to cap it all some are even taking the piss out of people with epilepsy, or showing the kind of disregard that would be welcome in an einzatzgruppen clearing out homes for the handicapped 70 years ago.

This place disgusts me.

Get a frigging grip. If this is the biggest and most important thing in your life, then you'd be better off stepping under a train than waiting for it's release and patches.

Don't normally do this, but +1 to you ;)

[PeterPanPan]

Read the thread. Or the YT comment.

Well, I am at work having a sneaky peak at this, so haven't really got time to read through 30+ pages, but thanks for your friendly advice Swiss.

[swiss]

Well, I am at work having a sneaky peak at this, so haven't really got time to read through 30+ pages, but thanks for your friendly advice Swiss.

Just because it's you:

It's not, he said it only looks fluent in the vid - in rl it somewhat hangs every 2 secs.

Q9450@2,67 4GB RAM GTX280 res:1650 Mid-Settings

[Kianoni]

I'm tired of this is bullshit.
I blame the hysterical people wanting to prevent everything fun from everyone because some effect from something might affect someone.
Someone died because he/she had a condition and played a game? He/she might have died anyway for some other thing than a game triggering his/her condition.

[Flying Pencil]

Coddling at its worst.

I am an real aircraft pilot, and this is something we are made aware of and taught how to respond (look away from the flashing light!).

Flash induced Epilepsy has never >directly< killed anyone AFAIK, however it can be an issue if operating a vehicle.

What is vital is if one does have epilepsy so they will be aware.
In short, if a game triggers a bout of epilepsy, it is a GOOD thing (tm) becuase one will now how to deal with it when it happens again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosensitive_epilepsy

[David603]

Here you go from 2008. The dev's screwed up, Im sure in time they will work it out.

http://spong.com/article/15691/Ubisoft-is-Screening-Video-Games-for-Epilepsy
Sigh...

Did you not read the other thread on the Epilepsy filter?

The oversight, if it can be called such, was that Oleg's team had not developed a game that has been epilepsy tested before (Il2 1946 was published before this was introduced). Therefore they were unaware of how many issues would appear during testing.

The game was submitted to Ubisoft for routine epilepsy testing and failed the test spectacularly. Response was to attempt to correct each and every little cause separately, but there was not enough time. Ubisoft won't publish without issues being solved. Result, this stopgap solution is pushed out.

Short term solution will be to make disabling the epilepsy filter an own risk thing.

Long term will be to fix the individual issues.

So I will buy the game, hope it runs acceptably on my PC or the short term solution arrives soon, and wait for the long term fix. Its at most a temporary inconvenience, so I'm not going to act like its the end of the world

[MD_Titus]

Sigh...

Did you not read the other thread on the Epilepsy filter?

The oversight, if it can be called such, was that Oleg's team had not developed a game that has been epilepsy tested before (Il2 1946 was published before this was introduced). Therefore they were unaware of how many issues would appear during testing.

The game was submitted to Ubisoft for routine epilepsy testing and failed the test spectacularly. Response was to attempt to correct each and every little cause separately, but there was not enough time. Ubisoft won't publish without issues being solved. Result, this stopgap solution is pushed out.

Short term solution will be to make disabling the epilepsy filter an own risk thing.

Long term will be to fix the individual issues.

So I will buy the game, hope it runs acceptably on my PC or the short term solution arrives soon, and wait for the long term fix. Its at most a temporary inconvenience, so I'm not going to act like its the end of the world

some sense!

the wailing that's occurring you'd think it actually, in the grand scheme, mattered.

[Vevster]

In the UK if a TV programme or news report has flashing photography in it they give a verbal warning that it contains flash photography
Surely if they can broadcast live to millions all at once a sim/game is capable of issuing a warning so that anyone carrying on past the warning accepts responsibility of their own actions.


http://www.gamesradar.com/ds/rayman-raving-rabbids/news/house-of-commons-to-debate-video-game-epilepsy-testing/a-20080612153339781043/g-20060405165411533021

http://www.videogameseizures.org/Prevention_Strategies.html

In December 2008 video game manufacturers in the UK agreed to test their video game images for seizure safety prior to release

Btw, website about (seizures) is one of a lawyer sueing some editors for seizures

[furbs]

What ever happened, its still very underhand not to let people know BEFORE the release date, and not find out by reading the russian forums.

[Richard]

Thank god I didn't preorder it. As of now, the game looks FUBAR, so I'll wait 'til they sort out the problems.. (2 weeks, be sure!)

[swiss]

Coddling at its worst.

I am an real aircraft pilot, and this is something we are made aware of and taught how to respond (look away from the flashing light!).

Flash induced Epilepsy has never >directly< killed anyone AFAIK, however it can be an issue if operating a vehicle.

What is vital is if one does have epilepsy so they will be aware.
In short, if a game triggers a bout of epilepsy, it is a GOOD thing (tm) becuase one will now how to deal with it when it happens again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosensitive_epilepsy

But think of it - you could faint and hit the keyboard with your head!

And as a result you break it, or even worse, generate an infinite number of repeating keystrokes.

[swiss]

Btw, website about (seizures) is one of a lawyer sueing some editors for seizures


Tar and feather him, or even better, burn him on a stick.

[Kianoni]

Tar and feather him, or even better, burn him on a stick.

I suggest him to investigate how many people have fallen off cliffs of Dover while wearing hiking boots and sue the boot manufacturers.

[Devastat]

It seems that because of epilepsy-gate muzzleflashes, sparks and flying debree have been removed as well from current version of CoD. But the game sounds very good :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwOW8fnL5F0&feature=player_embedded

[Tree_UK]

Sigh...

Did you not read the other thread on the Epilepsy filter?

The oversight, if it can be called such, was that Oleg's team had not developed a game that has been epilepsy tested before (Il2 1946 was published before this was introduced). Therefore they were unaware of how many issues would appear during testing.

The game was submitted to Ubisoft for routine epilepsy testing and failed the test spectacularly. Response was to attempt to correct each and every little cause separately, but there was not enough time. Ubisoft won't publish without issues being solved. Result, this stopgap solution is pushed out.

Short term solution will be to make disabling the epilepsy filter an own risk thing.

Long term will be to fix the individual issues.

So I will buy the game, hope it runs acceptably on my PC or the short term solution arrives soon, and wait for the long term fix. Its at most a temporary inconvenience, so I'm not going to act like its the end of the world

So I was right then after all the Dev's screwed up not Ubi. Now stop 'sighing' and apologise theres a good chap.

[WhiteSnake]

This is Male Cow Poop, Other Publishers got games wich are way worse for people with Epilepsy (Crysis 2 being the latest example of these games) and a simple Epilepsy Warning is enough.
No need to ruin a game wich took 6 years to develop :(

If you have to take it a step further than add a huge fat red Epilepsi warning against a black background that shows upfor 3 seconds each time the geme is started, that should cover you legaly against being seud against some idiot with Epelipsy whose gonna play a computer game for hours on end.

(Legal statment: not saying here that Epileptics are idiots, just the ones who know there epileptic and than go and play a game for hours untill they have an attack, and than sue the publisher for having an attack)

Anyway, this Male Cow Poop means im not buying the game, like atleast 10 others i know that where gonna buy the game before but arte no longer buying it now, some even had there preoders canceled, so good luck selling your game has an build in performance loss/stutter and on top of that doesnt run on a Multi GPU Cards, Crossfire and SLI setups, and looks pooped.

[bw_wolverine]

Is MS FSX subject to the anti-seizure stuff? If so, I'm sure a lot of the stuff that seems wrong can be fixed, it'll just take time (prop spinning, etc.).

I just don't understand how all the stuff in CoD can 'fail' when I look at some recently released games that seemingly haven't failed.

Modern Warfare, Bulletstorm, all of those FPSs. Wings of Prey for that matter. ArmA 2.

ArmA 2 must be an epileptic's worst nightmare if played during night missions!

Is it only Ubisoft that has this restriction? What are some other Ubisoft very recent titles? Those must have to pass this restriction too.

[PeterPanPan]

Just because it's you:

Thanks mate ;)

[MugiSNK]

I think this is my first post...

I'm just getting my copy on the 31st.
Then I'm going to install it, and wait for patches.

Anyone know if I can run this on a HD5570?

[Thee_oddball]

I think this is my first post...

I'm just getting my copy on the 31st.
Then I'm going to install it, and wait for patches.

Anyone know if I can run this on a HD5570?

you mean 5750? if so yes, i am getting between 40-60fps avg,

[MugiSNK]

you mean 5750? if so yes, i am getting between 40-60fps avg,

No I mean the HD5570
I can run games like Wings of Prey on high/higher with 40-50 FPS

[Devastat]

@MugiSNK

I have i7 920, and Radeon hd 5850 with 12gb ram. The game is not playable. However, i don't think it is up to the hardware but the problems that resist in the game itself at this stage.

[Komrad]

@MugiSNK

I have i7 920, and Radeon hd 5850 with 12gb ram. The game is not playable. However, i don't think it is up to the hardware but the problems that resist in the game itself at this stage.

Agreed, MG had to take the axe to their own code to fit in with UBI's requirements.

Lets hope it does not take to long for them to sort out the problem.

Bryan.

[MadBlaster]

you mean 5750? if so yes, i am getting between 40-60fps avg,

Sorry, but you have posted in three different places different results as to avg. frame rate. There is a big different between 60 avg, 40 avg and something less than that. In another post you say it drops down in the teens. I understand the desire to be optimistic. I am trying to be as well. But please try to be realistic. We want useful data. Do us all a favor and do a benchmark test. Use the in game filter, not fraps. Fly around for 5 minutes over land, water and near aircraft. Then tell us what the min/max/avg numbers all. You don't even have to post a screenshot. I will take your word on it. Thank you.:)

[MugiSNK]

Thanks for the quick replies. I'm just getting my copy, and then I'm going to wait for some proper patches before doing anything. Just sticking to 1946 until that day.

[MugiSNK]

After what Luthier told us, it is clear that COD is a "unfinished product"...
It is about 3 to 6 months short of being fully optimised, wich corresponds to the time they spent " implementing" the filter code that creates all sorts of problems with the playability...
What will happen though , and could be devastating, is that the reviews from all specialised magazines and websites will probably be quite bad if the game runs at 20 FPS at medium settings... And my first reaction to Luthier's comments are probably the same as many fans here, is to wait and see...
And that is also critical....

SAlute !

Here it is. I think 1C didn't want to keep pushing Cliff's release date, so they released it! What's the deal? Some people can barely play it, some cannot!
Just support 1C for now, let them built up an amazing new IL-2 the upcoming months.

[Thee_oddball]

Sorry, but you have posted in three different places different results as to avg. frame rate. There is a big different between 60 avg, 40 avg and something less than that. In another post you say it drops down in the teens. I understand the desire to be optimistic. I am trying to be as well. But please try to be realistic. We want useful data. Do us all a favor and do a benchmark test. Use the in game filter, not fraps. Fly around for 5 minutes over land, water and near aircraft. Then tell us what the min/max/avg numbers all. You don't even have to post a screenshot. I will take your word on it. Thank you.:)

i have flown alone 1000 feet low was 40 avg was 63 and high was 97 :) :)
did a 4x4 dog fight over land and sea low was 10 avg was 44 and high was ...70..i think :)
and i did some treetop trimming which was around 30 avg :) but will be making a video in the next couple days i hope and will post some screen shots

p.s i was not using fraps and all fps are from inside the cockpit

[MugiSNK]

Just to make clear:
This issue definitely decreases FPS rate?
I can run Wings of Prey on higher settings, 1280x800 res without problems, 40 fps. It would be a shame to see such an high quality promised game turning into an unplayable game for mid-range PC's like mine.

I hope they will fix this at the next release next week :)

MugiSNK



(edit: get 333)

[MadBlaster]

i have flown alone 1000 feet low was 40 avg was 63 and high was 97 :) :)
did a 4x4 dog fight over land and sea low was 10 avg was 44 and high was ...70..i think :)
and i did some treetop trimming which was around 30 avg :) but will be making a video in the next couple days i hope and will post some screen shots

p.s i was not using fraps and all fps are from inside the cockpit

Thanks. Those numbers give me hope.

[DarthElvis]

I want to confirm that everything said here is true, we have implemented some drastic features for anti-epilepsy protection which are affecting FPS and killing SLI support.

We CANNOT make these optional. That will allow an opportunistic or an unfortunate person suffering from epilepsy to sue Ubisoft for damages and literally close down the studio for good.

This was a stop-gap measure to make sure the game gets released. As I explained in the clumsily-translated Russian article, everything in our game causes seizures - gunfire, explosions, fire, sun passing behind canopy framework, etc. Basically flight sims are an epileptic's nightmare.

We'll work to improve the framerate and perhaps address individual issues individually as opposed to applying a single rough post-effect filter, but it is basically a very sad situation. Something completely unrelated and unexpected came to our sim with a giant axe and whacked at it at the last moment. We just didn't have time to properly address it.

Then you just lost a customer. Sorry. Not being able to disable the filter is unacceptable. I don't have epilepsy, no-one in my family does. I don't really care for others making decisions for me, "for my own good".
Blame UBI. Although I don't understand why you guys are still with that pack of hustlers and liars. It's not like they have never screwed you over before. I think the ROF or the Eagle Dynamics model would work for you as well.

[jimbop]

Then you just lost a customer. Sorry. Not being able to disable the filter is unacceptable. I don't have epilepsy, no-one in my family does. I don't really care for others making decisions for me, "for my own good".
Blame UBI. Although I don't understand why you guys are still with that pack of hustlers and liars. It's not like they have never screwed you over before. I think the ROF or the Eagle Dynamics model would work for you as well.

What are you talking about? They have already patched in an option to disable the filter.

[Triggaaar]

Then you just lost a customer. Sorry. Not being able to disable the filter is unacceptable.Great first post, well done.

[naffer]

Although I don't understand why you guys are still with that pack of hustlers and liars.

I'd say they're legally obliged. I can't think of any other explanation.

[grunge]

I would have buyed the game wether it had the Storm of War name...if ubi is responsible for this sad epi thing (?) an only steam release would be also a good alternative. I have doubts now about CoD.

I won't buy it for now that's sure. I'm deeply dissapointed, i buyed all the other IL2 games till Sturmovik 46 and i'm still very happy with the sim. Btw. i got an MS FFB2, and no forcefeedback...comeon... :(

[Eckhart]

Then you just lost a customer. Sorry. Not being able to disable the filter is unacceptable. I don't have epilepsy, no-one in my family does. I don't really care for others making decisions for me, "for my own good".
Blame UBI. Although I don't understand why you guys are still with that pack of hustlers and liars. It's not like they have never screwed you over before. I think the ROF or the Eagle Dynamics model would work for you as well.

This epilepsy problem has been driven out of proportion. Some pimple faced UBI lawyer came up with this great idea and ruined that game. Such unrealistic fear reaction is typical for French companies (saw it in other domains as well and that can ruin a company as well). Just a greedy lawyer making some money...:evil:

Now let's face reality (and I am highly qualified regarding the medical question of epilepsy). There are many flightsims out there and some are made by companies with much larger pockets than 1C (Microsoft?). How many lawsuits have taken place on the claim that a Flightsim game triggered epilepsy????

From a medico-legal point of view, no videogame can create epilepsy. It just reveals a pre-existing condition which remained unknown to the patient until he started to play. It is therefore a beneficial event which will lead the patient to consult and perhaps change his professional orientation (no he should not apply for a job as a A380 pilot with AirFrance).

It is therefore sufficient to put in the usual warning about this game triggering an epileptic fit in people who are already known to have epilepsy or are ignoring this status up to now. Both categories should seek medical advice regarding the use of videogames.

That's it. You did your duty. The doctor will be responsible for what happens next and not you. Not putting an anti-epilepsy filter into the game is not a discriminating action towards a certain part of the population. You have epilepsy..stay away from videogames. You are blind...don't apply to become a bus driver...

So my advice is to go and have a lawyer write such an advertisement for you. Then tell the pimple faced UBI responsible that he is more at risk for getting a class action regarding selling a broken product and that he can save his money ( and @ss) by backing off the epilepsy filter.

Then you can just go back and use the formerly developed product with all the SLI power and high FPS....and you will have a IL2 crowd rushing to buy COD.

My 2 cents

Cheers,

Eckhart

ps: Sorry for being so long and windy

[Wolf_Rider]

Games for Windows site carries the epilepsy warning too now...

[ATAG_Doc]

I have an idea. Why not distribute this though an adult content distributor? Where we get our seedy magazines we can also pick up a rated X copy of this sim.