Hotas setup for the upcoming Cliffs of Dover

[Royraiden]

Edit*Bought the CH Combatsick,Throttle Quadrant and Pro Pedals.

First of all Im new here so If there is a hardware section or similar where this should be posted please let me know.So right now I got a Logitech Force 3dPro which I've used for a whole year,the main problem it got is that the centering is terrible,causing unstable movements even when Im trying to fly straight(just cruising).My other problem is the twist rudder, which almost every time I press the trigger I twist the stick throwing my aim off.So since this game is coming pretty soon I figured out that it would be better for me to get a whole hotas setup instead of just replacing the stick to have a better experience and enjoy the game better.Im almost sure of what to get but would like some feedback.This would be the setup:

-CH Combatstick 568 USB
-Saitek Throttle Quadrant
-Saitek Rudder Pedals

I want to know if having saitek+ch would give me any trouble while mapping controls,also if anyone has any of these items or their counterparts(ch rudder pedals and throttle quadrant)please let me know what you think of it.
My budget is $300 including shipping.There are other setups in this price range as the G940 and the X-52/X65.But out of those three I dont like the looks of the x/52 and the whole idea of the force sensing on the x65 is not of my liking.As for the Logitech, the whole setup seems nice but after my experience with my current joystick and a lot of reviews of people complaining about various issues, I guess I wouldnt buy it either.

[Matt255]

Out of the parts that you consider, i only had the Saitek Throttle Quadrant and cannot recommend it.

The potis seem to be of pretty bad quality. One axis began to spike after 3 months of normal use (less then 10 hours a week). The second axis started with that problem one month later, i then had to replace the throttle quadrant (i used the X52 throttle [without stick] then).

Atleast 3 other people in my squadron had the same problem after about same use.

Some of those switched to a G940 and most are very happy with it, however, some have replaced the stick with a FFB2 (which they had before buying the G940). But overall, i think the G940 is better then its (or Logitechs) reputation.

I currently use a Hotas Warthog and Simpeds and am very happy with those too, but they are not in your price range.

[Royraiden]

Out of the parts that you consider, i only had the Saitek Throttle Quadrant and cannot recommend it.

The potis seem to be of pretty bad quality. One axis began to spike after 3 months of normal use (less then 10 hours a week). The second axis started with that problem one month later, i then had to replace the throttle quadrant (i used the X52 throttle [without stick] then).

Atleast 3 other people in my squadron had the same problem after about same use.

Some of those switched to a G940 and most are very happy with it, however, some have replaced the stick with a FFB2 (which they had before buying the G940). But overall, i think the G940 is better then its (or Logitechs) reputation.

I currently use a Hotas Warthog and Simpeds and am very happy with those too, but they are not in your price range.
Thats the kind of feedback I was looking for.Just by reading reviews one could think that some of these products are excellent,but maybe that's not the case for some.My other option would be the CH throttle quadrant but that would cost me like $50 more.Did you have any problems mapping it?And what joystick were you using with the throttle?

[speculum jockey]

The G940 still has the reversal bug issue with the throttle and the rudder. Also some units overheat after a few hours of use.

If you're getting one of the Saitek's be sure it's from a store near you so you can drive back and exchange it for one without spikey axis.

[Royraiden]

The G940 still has the reversal bug issue with the throttle and the rudder. Also some units overheat after a few hours of use.

If you're getting one of the Saitek's be sure it's from a store near you so you can drive back and exchange it for one without spikey axis.

Im gonna buy the rudder pedals from a local Compusa,the rest from newegg.And those are the issues I was referring to.

[Meusli]

Why not buy the CH rudder and throttle controls? I use that setup and with their programing software and profiles found on their website site setting these up is no problem at all.

[Royraiden]

Why not buy the CH rudder and throttle controls? I use that setup and with their programing software and profiles found on their website site setting these up is no problem at all.

I've read that the CH pedals have almost no resistance and are too narrow.As for the throttle I like it but its like $50 dollars more.Since you got the pedals, how good is the resistance, and are they wide enough for you?I am a small guy so that might not be a problem, and they are available at the local compusa also.

[David198502]

i have the ch fighterstick now for about one month!i can really recommend it!!!before i bought it,i also asked here in the forum about opinions.it really helped me in making a decision.everything the members here told me about the stick was true.
as i think to know, the combat stick is the same as the fighterstick without the hat switches.the stick is really precise and fits perfect in hand.even after several hours nonstop gaming it still feels comfortable.and the other big plus is, that it really seems to be undestroyable.its built really solid.im really happy with it. for the other devices i cannot tell about, as i dont have them. but i consider to buy the trhottle and pedals from ch, as this company convinced me with its stick.

[JG52Uther]

I have a CH fighterstick,CH pedals,and a Saitek throttle quad!
I cannot fault the fighterstick or pedals (apart for the pedals being narrow) I have had them for years,and they still work and feel like new.
The Saitek throttle quad,while a good concept,feels very flimsy,and one of the levers is malfunctioning,and does not register full movement anymore.

[Matt255]

Did you have any problems mapping it?And what joystick were you using with the throttle?
No problems whatsoever (only used it with IL2, WoP and RoF). I really liked it alot, even though it does feel a bit too plasticy for its price.

But if it didn't have that spiking problem, i would still use it for some axes atleast. The concept is excellent, three levers and a few buttons, plus the ability to attach it to your table and combine multiple units. Too bad that the quality doesn't live up to that.

I used the FFB2 with the X52 throttle and Simped pedals.

I've replaced the FFB2 and X52 throttle with the Warthog in november. I can recommend both the FFB2 and the X52 throttle aswell, both worked very well for me.

[Qpassa]

G940 Force feedback > all

[ghodan]

G940 Force feedback > all

Until your unit fails/has a problem.

CH hardware almost never fail.
Only negative side is:
CH Pro throttle has almost no resistance.
CH Rudder pedals are small and low resistance.

What i got from reading alot of forums:
G940: overheating issue, hat problem (flimsy?) , throttle die , some part of the throttle causing spike (there is a community fix for that, remove some screw), some problems with the rudder.

Warthog: Alot of throttle's DIE , problem with joystick centre.

Saitek: Pots wear out quick.

[Meusli]

I've read that the CH pedals have almost no resistance and are too narrow.As for the throttle I like it but its like $50 dollars more.Since you got the pedals, how good is the resistance, and are they wide enough for you?I am a small guy so that might not be a problem, and they are available at the local compusa also.

They do not have a lot of resistance in the pedals and seeing as they are the only pedals I have owned I can not say if they are narrower than the rest. What I will say is that they will not break on you after a lot of use and I have no personal problems with the resistance and narrowness. What I did though is a looked on eBay and got the throttle, pedals and fighterstick for a bargain price of £150 and they were all like brand new because of the build quality. What other joystick setup would you feel comfortable buying second hand?

[Azimech]

In the past 9 years I had to repair my MS FFB2 once, a part had ruptured which resulted in a sloppy feeling. So I bought another that was broken with almost the same defect and used the good part. I love the stick but still I feel the quality isn't what it could have been.

I have two saitek three axis throttles and I concur with the bad quality of the pots. However I used some contact spray and the problems are almost gone. The rest I have compensated with adjusting filtering.

I'm building my own pedals out of heavy wood and car parts and use the internals of the other MS stick for the signals.

[Royraiden]

They do not have a lot of resistance in the pedals and seeing as they are the only pedals I have owned I can not say if they are narrower than the rest. What I will say is that they will not break on you after a lot of use and I have no personal problems with the resistance and narrowness. What I did though is a looked on eBay and got the throttle, pedals and fighterstick for a bargain price of £150 and they were all like brand new because of the build quality. What other joystick setup would you feel comfortable buying second hand?

Honestly as far as the joystick,I would not settle for less.Having a imprecise joystick(my current one)I want to get the best if not close to.Right now as other have said the Combat stick is almost the same as the Fighter stick but lacking a hat switch,which to my liking is positioned in a weird spot which I wouldnt use.So I save a few bucks on the Combatstick.I had a chance to play with the X52,while I really liked the throttle I could not say the same for the stick, feels to plasticky and looks to me as it had came out of a space ship lol.I ve checked on ebay and amazon for both used and new but this items are all rare(CH).Theres only like 3 items for the pro throttle and they are almost $100.For that price I would get the ch quadrant without blinking.

[Royraiden]

G940 Force feedback > all

I know how forcefeedback affects the whole experience,thats why I got my current joystick.But it seems that it is a compromise with precision.Until some brand makes a reliable and precise ffb joystick I'll stick with non FFB.

[Royraiden]

i have the ch fighterstick now for about one month!i can really recommend it!!!before i bought it,i also asked here in the forum about opinions.it really helped me in making a decision.everything the members here told me about the stick was true.
as i think to know, the combat stick is the same as the fighterstick without the hat switches.the stick is really precise and fits perfect in hand.even after several hours nonstop gaming it still feels comfortable.and the other big plus is, that it really seems to be undestroyable.its built really solid.im really happy with it. for the other devices i cannot tell about, as i dont have them. but i consider to buy the trhottle and pedals from ch, as this company convinced me with its stick.
What I read in reviews seems to be true for the CH stuff.CH sticks seem to be superior than the rest.Thats good.

I have a CH fighterstick,CH pedals,and a Saitek throttle quad!
I cannot fault the fighterstick or pedals (apart for the pedals being narrow) I have had them for years,and they still work and feel like new.
The Saitek throttle quad,while a good concept,feels very flimsy,and one of the levers is malfunctioning,and does not register full movement anymore.
More points for CH :)

For the guys that have agreed on the narrowness of the CH pedals, are you tall,small?

[JG52Uther]

I am 5'10 ,and average build.To be honest I find the CH pedals fine to use,but think cramped Bf109 rather than spacious P47! ;)

[Royraiden]

There should be fine for me then.Well so far the setup will be:
-Combatstick 568
-CH Rudder Pedals
-???????
I want the CH throttle so bad but damn it so expensive.

[Matt255]

I'm a little over 1.80m and i think the CH pedals are too narrow. That's the main reason why i got the Simpeds.

I think it's a matter of taste if you prefer Saitek pedals or CH pedals.

I never heard of a problem with the CH sticks or throttles though.

Warthog: Alot of throttle's DIE , problem with joystick centre.

I know of exactly one dead throttle after the firmware update (and even that one is not really confirmed) and 5-10 before the firmware update. And i visit those Warthog forums alot. That sure is not good for an expensive product like that, but it's not like every throttle dies and you shouldn't buy Warthogs just because of that. I'm convinced it's because of problems with grounding the PC and controller and the Warthog being an (almost) full-metal controller suffers from this problem more noticably then others.

Not sure what you mean with the joystick center problem. It does have a very stiff spring, but that's more a matter of opinion. It could be a bit weaker for me, but then all other (non FFB sticks) were way too weak for me.

[Royraiden]

I'm a little over 1.80m and i think the CH pedals are too narrow. That's the main reason why i got the Simpeds.

I think it's a matter of taste if you prefer Saitek pedals or CH pedals.

I never heard of a problem with the CH sticks or throttles though.


I know of exactly one dead throttle after the firmware update (and even that one is not really confirmed) and 5-10 before the firmware update. And i visit those Warthog forums alot. That sure is not good for an expensive product like that, but it's not like every throttle dies and you shouldn't buy Warthogs just because of that. I'm convinced it's because of problems with grounding the PC and controller and the Warthog being an (almost) full-metal controller suffers from this problem more noticably then others.

Not sure what you mean with the joystick center problem. It does have a very stiff spring, but that's more a matter of opinion. It could be a bit weaker for me, but then all other (non FFB sticks) were way too weak for me.

My current stick has a lot of play in the center.Letting my hand off the stick will not cause the stick to re-center itself like it should,some times it stays to one side or the other,or forward or backward.Trimming is useless, because everytime I move the stick it will not come back to the same point.I recently had a chance to play with the non forcefeedback version of this stick,and it was dead center every time I let go off it.The tension seemed a bit better too.

[kingpinda]

My saitek throttle quadrant is perfectly fine but maybe I don't use it as much as other players do. I use it for prop pitch, flaps and mixture in IL2. and for throttle in DCS black shark while using my hotas throttle for the collective.

I had a saitek 52 but quickly dumped it because of the spring function. near centre its tedious to make small movements you over compensate and Jerry will shift in and out of your crosshairs.

I'm using the logitech G940 and I can't live without it. Actually I had no problems with reverse axis. I just invert in menu and all is good to go. Didnt actualy know this was a problem. Or you guys must mean something other than I what i think you guys mean. In december there has been a firmware update and now I can adjust my center spring in black shark no problems. It used to be with the new firm ware: Spring on 100 percent and no way of changing it.

The mini stick though i havent figured out how to make it work A-OK. maybe its fixed with the new firmware but I still get oversensitivity where it will jump or keep travelling when I slew a target box on tanks with for instance black shark or A-10.

Maybe if i use a bigger deadzone it will be fixed dunno.

The pedals are good but I thought the return to center was annoying and even with the knob totally on loose it still had to much force for my taste. So i took it apart and got rid of the big spring. now it feels like 1 big axis instead of 2 with a deadzone. that way i can use miniscule rudder modifications to get those pesky germans.


Indeed stay away from the saitek force sensing. Its i think only good for realistic modern fighters. It looks mighty fine but if you want to feel the plane instead of the plane feeling you... :p stay away :) For immersion in wwII crates a movable stick seems much better. Let alone the FFB its awsome in sims like ROF and FSX and cool and realistic in DCS black shark where the stick stays in position where its trimmed.


PS what did you guys or guy mean that they changed their 940 joystick for
the ff2b? Do they only use the 940 throttle and pedals and hide their g940 joystick under their table while using the ff2b? or did they modify the g940 joystick by taking it apart and putting the handle of the ff2b in it??

[Sokol1]

CH throttle quadrant but that would cost me like $50 more

Consider that for U$ 50,00, you are buying 3 more axis, 3 more two way button, excelent programmability of CH Mannager, and a well know CH reability/longevity.

Sokol1

[Royraiden]

Consider that for U$ 50,00, you are buying 3 more axis, 3 more two way button, excelent programmability of CH Mannager, and a well know CH reability/longevity.

Sokol1

Im considering it,I also found out that is available at the local store too!!!Im gonna go all CH if I can get those 2 locally.

[ghodan]

I'm a little over 1.80m and i think the CH pedals are too narrow. That's the main reason why i got the Simpeds.

I think it's a matter of taste if you prefer Saitek pedals or CH pedals.

I never heard of a problem with the CH sticks or throttles though.


I know of exactly one dead throttle after the firmware update (and even that one is not really confirmed) and 5-10 before the firmware update. And i visit those Warthog forums alot. That sure is not good for an expensive product like that, but it's not like every throttle dies and you shouldn't buy Warthogs just because of that. I'm convinced it's because of problems with grounding the PC and controller and the Warthog being an (almost) full-metal controller suffers from this problem more noticably then others.

Not sure what you mean with the joystick center problem. It does have a very stiff spring, but that's more a matter of opinion. It could be a bit weaker for me, but then all other (non FFB sticks) were way too weak for me.


Go to the simhq forum and then to the hardware/stick part.
Go search for warthog problems... you will be shocked.
I almost bought a Warthog, but after spending one day finding posts about bad things i will NOT buy a Warthog.

[Raggz]

Go to the simhq forum and then to the hardware/stick part.
Go search for warthog problems... you will be shocked.
I almost bought a Warthog, but after spending one day finding posts about bad things i will NOT buy a Warthog.

U got maybe 10 or so complaining about the corrupt flashmem issue with the throttle unit out of at least 3000 sold units so far. And the problem has been fixed in the latest firmware. Don't see why this is so horrible. Have you ever been to the saitek forums? ;)

btw, i bought the Warthogh and it's by far the best HOTAS i ever owned.

[ghodan]

U got maybe 10 or so complaining about the corrupt flashmem issue with the throttle unit out of at least 3000 sold units so far. And the problem has been fixed in the latest firmware. Don't see why this is so horrible. Have you ever been to the saitek forums? ;)

btw, i bought the Warthogh and it's by far the best HOTAS i ever owned.

If you already found 10 on the simhq forum... how many guys worldwide would have that problem?
Not all hog owners will post their failure on the simhq forum.

Best thing that could happen for flight sim lovers is that CH product release a new hotas. They said openly that they would not launch a new hotas in 2010, but its now 2011...

[Matt255]

Go to the simhq forum and then to the hardware/stick part.
Go search for warthog problems... you will be shocked.
That's the forum i'm in all the time. And if you would take a look at how many of those guys really have a dead throttle and then substract the number of guys that said before they would never buy a TM hardware again and suddenly end up with a Warthog at its release (or before its release :D) and then immediatly have the same problem and then substract the number of people that got a dead throttle after the firmware, you'll be down to maybe 5 and most of those only registered because of that problem.

I got the Warthog after reading all those complains to see if those guys are right and if the Warthog is really so bad like those guys say and so far, apart from the slightly too strong spring (which could easily be fixed by myself if i wouldn't be so lazy..), i have no complains whatsoever and the throttle is definately the best throttle around for this price (in the ->300 € price range).

[Royraiden]

With all due respect guys,since the warthog is out of my budget,please dont go that way with the discussion.Aesthetically it looks really great,but it is too damn expensive for me.I wish CH made something similar but resembling a WW2 fighter stick like the P-51's or 109's.I dont like so many buttons on the stick, although they come in handy.We WW2 flightsimmers are a hard to please.

[Rainmaker]

i use saitek throttle quadrant, and i am very satisfied with it!!! its awesome

[ghodan]

With all due respect guys,since the warthog is out of my budget,please dont go that way with the discussion.Aesthetically it looks really great,but it is too damn expensive for me.I wish CH made something similar but resembling a WW2 fighter stick like the P-51's or 109's.I dont like so many buttons on the stick, although they come in handy.We WW2 flightsimmers are a hard to please.

There is a Messerschmitt 109 stick and throttle and pedals :grin:
http://www.valiant-studio.eu/tarmac/html/en/hangar.php
Price is a bit high.

[Royraiden]

There is a Messerschmitt 109 stick and throttle and pedals :grin:
http://www.valiant-studio.eu/tarmac/html/en/hangar.php
Price is a bit high.
That would rock,but the price not so much :(
*Edit* Just watched the video...Im about to cry!!!!How cool is that damn it.

[ghodan]

That would rock,but the price not so much :(
*Edit* Just watched the video...Im about to cry!!!!How cool is that damn it.

You can have it.
Just sell stuff.... like your left kidney
;)

[Royraiden]

You can have it.
Just sell stuff.... like your left kidney
;)

May a 109 get at your 6 and empty its cannon shells on you for teasing me with that gear.

[Royraiden]

My HOTAS of choice these days is MS Sidewinder FF 2 stick, Saitek X65F dual throttle, Saitek rudder pedals. gave up on the Saitek force sensing stick as its a bit of a gimmick IMHO but it does work well in jet sims, the dual throttle was too stiff, but I've taken it apart and removed the half moon piece at the bottom, now its perfect, may not be cosmeticly realistic for a WW2 sim, but it has all the hats and buttons you need for a simulation of any kind, even RoF, the rudder pedals I've had for about three years, no complaints.

I just hope the Saitek X-65F twin throttle was tested with CoD, for some reason it does not fully recognise the new twin engined bomber in RoF nor does it for ED DCS BS and FC2, fine in FSX and other sims with twin engines though.

Wonder too if CoD will support individual toe brakes?

I bet it will.Doesnt Il-2 1946 support it?

[Ltbear]

No problems whatsoever (only used it with IL2, WoP and RoF). I really liked it alot, even though it does feel a bit too plasticy for its price.

But if it didn't have that spiking problem, i would still use it for some axes atleast. The concept is excellent, three levers and a few buttons, plus the ability to attach it to your table and combine multiple units. Too bad that the quality doesn't live up to that.

I used the FFB2 with the X52 throttle and Simped pedals.

I've replaced the FFB2 and X52 throttle with the Warthog in november. I can recommend both the FFB2 and the X52 throttle aswell, both worked very well for me.


Im stil a FFB2 and X52 user, the stick is from 2002 and stil going strong....Im actualy one of those who power shopped when i heard they would stop production and stil have 4 new ones stored (FFB2)lol....

With COD i will go with some hardware upgrades, multithrottle etc..track IR will deffently take over the pan mouse thing on the X52. Not sure what to get yet since im upscaling the hardware from a FFB2 so i can mount a chair on it and have a FFB cocpit lol....

LTbear

[JG53Frankyboy]

i also plan to 'upgrade' my flygear by adding a HOTAS throttle to my M$ FFB2 for CoD !

so,with the throttles of X65F and X52pro it is working.
they connect themsleves, have thier own USB cabel, to the PC AFAIK
with the throttle of the G940 too?
is the throttle of the G940 not connected to the Joystick ?

[kingpinda]

i also plan to 'upgrade' my flygear by adding a HOTAS throttle to my M$ FFB2 for CoD !

so,with the throttles of X65F and X52pro it is working.
they connect themsleves, have thier own USB cabel, to the PC AFAIK
with the throttle of the G940 too?
is the throttle of the G940 not connected to the Joystick ?

Yes. Only 1 usb goes from joystick to pc. 2 nine-pins go from throttle and rudder to the base of the joystick. They look like old game-port or vga pins. So if you just want to use the throttle from the g940 you need to connect the joystick also and hide it under your desk or so. Maybe though you would be able to connect the 9-pin to something... Don't know.

[speculum jockey]

Yes. Only 1 usb goes from joystick to pc. 2 nine-pins go from throttle and rudder to the base of the joystick. They look like old game-port or vga pins. So if you just want to use the throttle from the g940 you need to connect the joystick also and hide it under your desk or so. Maybe though you would be able to connect the 9-pin to something... Don't know.

I think that Logitech missed the boat on that one. They should all have USB connectors so that they could have sold the rudder/throttle/stick together or as seperate packages for people who don't want the whole thing. You could still plug them all into one another then into the PC (requiring only one connection) but the option would be there to mix and match.

[Royraiden]

SH#T!!! The Combatstick is no longer in stock at newegg,the ch rudder pedal are also all gone.Things are not looking good for me.Do you happen to know how fast they restock items like those?Cliffs of Dover announcement seemed to had a direct effect on ch product sales lol.

[ghodan]

SH#T!!! The Combatstick is no longer in stock at newegg,the ch rudder pedal are also all gone.Things are not looking good for me.Do you happen to know how fast they restock items like those?Cliffs of Dover announcement seemed to had a direct effect on ch product sales lol.

Yeah, if only CH products would hurry up with launching a new generation hotas.
They told me they are not going to launch a new gaming product in 2010.
but its 2011 now.
Maybe it helps if you all post asking for a possible month,quarter,year estimate for a new hotas launch:
http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/showthread.php?7204-CH-products-2010/page4

I would like to buy the CH fighterstick (combat stick is almost impossible to get around here and fighterstick has more "buttons") and throttle quad.
But i dont like the CH pro throttle: Almost no resistance and flat travel.And no rotary's.
And the CH pedals while very reliable and strong look to small for me compared to saitek pedals, specially the new combat pedals.

What i want most is a new CH hotas and new CH pedals (so not current models)
2nd option for me would be Logitech G940. Complete package for nice price and has force feedback.
3rd option would be Warthog with Saitek combat pedals... expansive combo. And i am afraid of quality issue on the hog. And Saitek is known for quick spiking pots?
I will wait just before or after launch to see if CH products announce something.

I own a unmodded cougar now and a Saitek X45 + Saitek throttle quadrant.

[Heliocon]

I know basically nothing at all about these setups, only what I have googled and read here. Atm using a Logitech extreme 3d pro, which is a joystick with base buttons, two triggers, hat and four buttoms around the hat. I use the twist feature for rudders, and my left hand on the mouse to move my head in the game.

Is there a big jump in enjoyment if I was to get a tracker + full setup? Do oyu think you would enjoy the game even without all the gadgets? Just wondering what people think since they are an expensive purchase for just 1 game alone.

[ghodan]

I know basically nothing at all about these setups, only what I have googles and read here. Atm using a Logitech extreme 3d pro, which is a joystick with base buttons, two triggers, hat and four buttoms around the hat. I use the twist feature for rudders, and a mouse to move my head in the game.

Is there a big jump in enjoyment if I was to get a tracker + full setup? Do oyu think you would enjoy the game even without all the gadgets? Just wondering what people think since they are an expensive purchase for just 1 game alone.

Track-IR is a must have.
And its not only usable for one game.
Its usable in all flight sims.
All hardcore race sims.
And usable in Arma2.

check the game list:
http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/03-enhanced-games/enhanced-games-all.html

[Royraiden]

Track-IR is a must have.
And its not only usable for one game.
Its usable in all flight sims.
All hardcore race sims.
And usable in Arma2.

check the game list:
http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/03-enhanced-games/enhanced-games-all.html

If only it was cheaper.I 've used freetrack without a problem and I only spent like $40 including a 30 dollar webcam.I've read many times that you can use the Track clip Pro with freetrack,it is sold for like $35 so if you dont want to build anything thats a great option.Im going to buy the trackclip pro but dont know where to get it.

[Sokol1]

There is a Messerschmitt 109 stick and throttle and pedals :grin:
http://www.valiant-studio.eu/tarmac/html/en/hangar.php
Price is a bit high.

And Tarmac Aces plan a RAF spad grip for yours universal base:

http://delcure.simon.perso.sfr.fr/Tarmac/Spade_grip/vue_1.jpg

http://delcure.simon.perso.sfr.fr/Tarmac/Spade_grip/vue_2.jpg

http://delcure.simon.perso.sfr.fr/Tarmac/Spade_grip/vue_3.jpg

;)

Sokol1

[Royraiden]

And Tarmac Aces plan a RAF spad grip for yours universal base:

http://delcure.simon.perso.sfr.fr/Tarmac/Spade_grip/vue_1.jpg

http://delcure.simon.perso.sfr.fr/Tarmac/Spade_grip/vue_2.jpg

http://delcure.simon.perso.sfr.fr/Tarmac/Spade_grip/vue_3.jpg

;)

Sokol1

Im not a fan of those RAF sticks, but for reality sake,AWESOME!!!A lower quality version of their products would get the attention of a lot of people.We love WW2 warbirds yet we fly with F-16 sticks.Those guys should be admired for producing that kind of gear.

[ElAurens]

I have used the full CH setup for years without issues. Fighterstick, Pro Throttle and Pedals.

Personally, I'd say that unless you are going to fly multi engine aircraft exclusively, get the Pro Throttle instead of the Quadrant. It has better placed, and more, buttons.

[Royraiden]

I have used the full CH setup for years without issues. Fighterstick, Pro Throttle and Pedals.

Personally, I'd say that unless you are going to fly multi engine aircraft exclusively, get the Pro Throttle instead of the Quadrant. It has better placed, and more, buttons.

I want more levers,for me the quadrant is more versatile.Single or twin engine control,mixture,prop pitch, trim.

[ghodan]

There was a 2 man company who build high quality spitfire controls.
Unfortunaly one of them died and the company quit production :(

http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/spitsim-spitfire-cockpit-simulator-product-review.html

http://spitfiresite.com/uploaded_images/spitsim_011.jpg

[Therion_Prime]

Ha! My Warthog just arrived! :-D I just hope my throttle doesn't die as well .....

[Royraiden]

There was a 2 man company who build high quality spitfire controls.
Unfortunaly one of them died and the company quit production :(

http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/spitsim-spitfire-cockpit-simulator-product-review.html

http://spitfiresite.com/uploaded_images/spitsim_011.jpg

That looks.......sturdy!!!If only the big brands started making stuff like this :(

[speculum jockey]

That looks.......sturdy!!!If only the big brands started making stuff like this :(

That thing would probably cost upwards of $1500 given the amount of metal parts and the machining required. Also if one of the major companies tried to make this it would be crammed with the crappiest pots ever and would get you the same accuracy as a typical $40 joystick.

[Toeknee]

Moving swiftly on from lady bits to joysticks...

As an enthusiastic newbie to IL2 (seriously, I don't know what it is but IL2:CoD has me seriously excited - kudos to the devs and community) I've been scouring the forum for recommendations of suitable joysticks that don't cost the earth but will serve as a decent entry level setup.

So far I've read good things on the Saitek Aviator in another thread, and the Thrustmaster T-Flight HOTAS Torian mentions here. There's not much between them in cost, however, one is HOTAS,the other has a split throttle, one has a handy looking rocker switch (a friend suggested using this for yaw control over the twisty stick, thoughts?) , the other doesn't etc. etc. *brain explodes*

So, to those experienced folk; which would you buy if you were about to take-off into the rather wonderful horizon of IL2 for the first time?

Thanks in advance!

[Blackdog_kt]

Purely in regards to yaw/rudder control:

I have used a couple of microsoft sidewinder sticks over the years (i still use the 2nd one,a precision 2 model, i've had it for more than a decade) and they have the twist-grip type of stick. It's not extremely accurate but good enough, it gives a fast response and it suits me because all the flight control surfaces are manipulated by my right hand, while i use my left hand for throttle and whatever i have mapped to the keyboard.

I recently got a friend of mine back into flight sims, but his old saitek x-35 only had a gameport connector. I gave him some internet links about stick customizations and Leo Bodnar's BU0836 USB chip (a joystick controller for custom-made sticks), so he managed to convert his old x-35 HOTAS from gameport to USB by rewiring it through the BU0836 controller. All fine and dandy up to this point, but my buddy only used to fly Falcon 4.0 back in the day, not prop fighters where rudder control is important.

After just two evenings of flying a few multiplayer missions in coop mode (all in all, less than 6 hours total gametime), the rocker switch on the x-35 was the first thing he complained about. I have never tried a rocker switch mind you, so it could be a case of personal taste.
In his own words however, he describes it as "having too small a throw/range of movement to be of any usable accuracy, it's either centered or almost all the way to the side and it's killing my precision".
In fact, his next project is to go to a carpenter and have a couple of rudder pedals cut out for him, which he will wire to a potentiometer and onto the BU0836, so my one and only "review"/testimonial of using a rocker switch for rudder control has been a negative one.

On the other hand, i've never used one so i'm curious to know if someone thinks it's actually good and why.

[speculum jockey]

Speculum Jockey

Srry, just had to tell u how much I laughed when I saw that username....brilliant.
I work in Obstetrics & Gynae (doing nite duty as I write). Showed it to the Midwife I'm working with & she cackled too. How about some others...
Amnic8tr, MECHonium_Warrior, DeeNdsee, Avian_Flew, IdreamOfGynee.
Srry off topic I know.
Torian

Really like that last one!

You wouldn't believe how many people have PM'ed me asking what kind of joystick my avatar is. I tell them its a Thrustmaster.

Speaking of joysticks, I'd love to take my cheapo Saitek Cyborg and remove the handle from the base, place a long (~40cm) column between the two, re-attach them and see how that works for a replica WWII flight stick. I'd obviously have to set up some blocks to keep from snapping it at the base, but I think it would really do the trick for the immersion factor. Only problem would be I'd then have to spring for some rudder pedals.

[Royraiden]

I'm not sure why folk desire realistic looking WW2 controllers? In flight sim we make so may concessions to reality we might as well just go and buy one of the commercially available HOTAS controllers and be done with it.

I mean, even if you were to buy a realistic looking Spitfire controller, that realism is diminished as soon as you start using the keyboard for extra control functions a possible realistic Spitfire controller might have, then what if you decide to fly a ME 109 ... that's your realism out of the window :)

Unless you are going to build a fully functional Spitfire (or whatever) cockpit and just fly that one aircraft in the sim, then I honestly feel you would be better off with a generic HOTAS.

IMHO of course and fair play to those that feel they really want to go this route.

Its just a matter of taste,as much as I would like a good looking 109 joystick I know thats not going to happen,let alone a simpit or whatever its called.Thats too extreme for me.Nevertheless I would really LIKE to have ww2 themed gear for flying Il-2.Gear that resembled better those types or airplanes instead of jetfighters.

[Royraiden]

Fair enough, but you would probably get more mileage out of a generic HOTAS :)

Im gonna buy a CH setup...is that generic enough for you?? Haha,seriously though this thread has gone a long way,I thought I wouldnt get much replies.

[Flanker35M]

S!

Using TM Warthog + CH Pro Pedals. Good combo and should work in CoD too :) Can't wait to fly that Bf110..IF flyable for player :)

[Flanker35M]

S!

Hmm..could take a look but do they sell these kickers in EU too?

[ghodan]

I'll tell you what is a worthy addition to WW1 and WW2 simulation fans, and its often overlooked as a gimmick, is the Buttkicker device, bolt one of these to your PC chair and fire up RoF and you will be amazed, you really need to try one to experience it ... It works way better than you would imagine, in a real WW1 or WW2 aircraft you would feel the engine at different throttle settings through the seat of your pants, the Buttkicker goes some way to replicating this ... I'll always remember trying it in RoF for the first time and flying over flack, one flack burst was so close it literally made me jump out of my seat with a massive thump through the seat that could be felt even over the the engine vibrations.

Best of all the Buttkicker has no PC performance hit draw back, just plug it in and go.

I'm looking forward to trying it in IL2 CoD and feeling as well as hearing the magnificent sound of the Merlin engine.


Agreed.
Had the same experience but over Pearl harbor.
Got hit by flak

yes you can buy them in the EU.
2 shops that i know straight away:
http://www.simw.com/ (Belgium but they send to all country's in EU)
http://www.aviationmegastore.com/ (Near airport Schippol , Amsterdam Nederlands)

Make sure you buy Buttkicker gamer v2
It has a wired remote and the amp is more silent and v1 are known for blowing up their own amp.

[Royraiden]

I'll tell you what is a worthy addition to WW1 and WW2 simulation fans, and its often overlooked as a gimmick, is the Buttkicker device, bolt one of these to your PC chair and fire up RoF and you will be amazed, you really need to try one to experience it ... It works way better than you would imagine, in a real WW1 or WW2 aircraft you would feel the engine at different throttle settings through the seat of your pants, the Buttkicker goes some way to replicating this ... I'll always remember trying it in RoF for the first time and flying over flack, one flack burst was so close it literally made me jump out of my seat with a massive thump through the seat that could be felt even over the the engine vibrations.

Best of all the Buttkicker has no PC performance hit draw back, just plug it in and go.

I'm looking forward to trying it in IL2 CoD and feeling as well as hearing the magnificent sound of the Merlin engine.
What is it exactly?I assume some kind of chair vibrator LOL.ROF has the best forcefeedback I've felt, taking off was intense with ffb.

[ghodan]

What is it exactly?I assume some kind of chair vibrator LOL.ROF has the best forcefeedback I've felt, taking off was intense with ffb.

Its like a subwoofer that does not make sound.
http://www.thebuttkicker.com/gaming/index.htm

It is hooked up on your speaker out of your sound card.
The amp filters on low end / deep sound.
Those sounds it "transfers" to the buttkicker unit that shakes/viberates.

Beter the explenation of the website:
http://www.thebuttkicker.com/ButtKicker%20Brand%20Technology/index.htm

What is a ButtKicker® brand low frequency audio transducer?

ButtKicker brand low frequency audio transducers are musically accurate, powerful, virtually indestructible and patented linear transducers, which recreate amplified audio signals in the feeling range. They are similar to loudspeakers, but instead of moving a cone, and transferring sound waves through the air, they attache to seats, floors, platforms, etc, and send low frequency sound directly into the listener's body. The effect is amazing.

It takes two senses to perceive full range sound. We hear sound, but we also feel sound, especially low frequency. Traditionally, it has taken big speakers, moving tremendous amounts of air, to feel the low frequency of sound. People like loud concerts because they want to feel the sound pressure in their bodies.

However, ButtKicker transducers reproduce the feeling range of audio in a more direct way than through air. The perception is actually better and sound pressure disappears. When using headphones, for example, with ButtKicker brand transducers, the listener perceives powerful, musically accurate, concert-level audio, but no one else hears anything. The sound is completely isolated to the listener.

This becomes very interesting for music monitoring and recording studios. Over one hundred of the top touring bands use ButtKicker products for stage monitoring because of the complete control they give them over their mix and sound level, without sacrificing any quality. Most musicians tell us immediately that they hear better and play better when using ButtKicker transducers.

In a recording studio, ButtKicker transducers allow for low volume, incredible isolation.. and, because the they were designed to be musically accurate, to fractions of frequencies, studio engineers are finding that their mixes are coming out tighter, cleaner and better balanced.

Music writers, producers and studio musicians who do soundtrack work for commercial companies and stage show producers, in large commercial facilities or smaller home studios are beginning to rely on ButtKicker brand low frequency audio transducers to check the accuracy of their mixes.


How They Work

ButtKicker low frequency audio transducers are in a class of their own.

Based on a revolutionary, patented design that is more musically accurate, more powerful and longer lasting than voice coil shakers and other tactile devices, ButtKicker brand low frequency audio transducers allow the user to feel powerful bass without excessive volume.

The magnetically suspended piston moves precisely in response to amplified audio signal input. This 3.25 lb mass generates tremendous force that is accurately transferred to whatever the housing is attached to.

ButtKicker brand transducers are virtually indestructible and maintenance-free, with many thousands of units in service for over six years... without failure. The ButtKicker brand family of low frequency transducers is used by the world's most demanding customers - IMAX, Disney, Universal Studios, professional and amateur musicians, theme parks and attractions, home theater professionals and enthusiasts, computer and console gamers and car audio installers.

[Cowboy10uk]

There was a 2 man company who build high quality spitfire controls.
Unfortunaly one of them died and the company quit production :(

http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/spitsim-spitfire-cockpit-simulator-product-review.html

http://spitfiresite.com/uploaded_images/spitsim_011.jpg


These are still available from RC Simulations.


Thank you for shopping with RC Simulations. click here for our information site.

For a complete guide to our ordering process please click here

Catalogue overview >>> Controls & Hardware >>> Spitfire Controls

Spitfire Controls Special Order Delivery 6-8 weeks
Spitfire Controls Special order 6-8 Weeks from date of order
6,210.00 GBP
Order no.: SC001 More details...

However You may have to take a new mortgage out to buy it, The price is Very Steep. After using this at the Rc Sims Flight Sim show a few years ago though, I can promise you its a wonderful piece of kit to use. Put it together with the snap together spitfire from http://www.creativecockpits.com/ And you have a full Spitfire Sim. Will look fantastic, although you may end up divorced ;)



Ill stick with my Warthog and Saitek Pro flight rudders for now.

[Royraiden]

I got mine second hand from Ebay quite cheap here in the UK.

Even if you are not pleased with it, they seem to retain their re-sale value well and you would not lose much by selling it on, mine is a keeper though.

Oddly it works better in some games and sims than others, does not work too well in Falcon 4, but that's a really old software sound engine, but in all versions of IL2 and anything newer than Falcon 4 it rocks ,,, and I mean rocks :)

If you are going for one, look for the new digital amp solid state version, mine is the original and has a little fan running in it that you can just hear, but then again I fly with good headphones and don't hear it anyway.

Oh yeah, in FSX the buttkicker is amazing too, as are games like ARMA 2 when you need to feel the sound as opposed to just hearing it.

Care to elaborate on how does it feel?Im kinda curious.For example does the vibration increase in proportion to every single throttle change?Stall buffet,gunfire,etc you get what I want to know.

[ghodan]

Care to elaborate on how does it feel?Im kinda curious.For example does the vibration increase in proportion to every single throttle change?Stall buffet,gunfire,etc you get what I want to know.

It reacts to low frequency sound and the power of the low frequency sound(s).
The more low and power full the sound of the thing happening, the more powerfull the shake/vibration of the Buttkicker

[DD_crash]

You will KNOW when you have been hit! :)

[Royraiden]

You will KNOW when you have been hit! :)

This game is gonna get me broke dammit.Hotas setup+better freetrack setup and now Ill add this to the wishlist.

[ghodan]

Ofcourse there is also the Ivibe
http://www.ivibe.com/default.htm

Version 3 is almost ready for sale according the the forum news.

This product does 2 things:
1) Same as the buttkicker , so react to low freq sound. But then with 5 or 6 "shackers/kickers"
2) If the game is supported then it will do some more inteligent stuff like forcefeedback.

[roadczar]

This looks really good. How comfortable is the seat?

Ofcourse there is also the Ivibe
http://www.ivibe.com/default.htm

Version 3 is almost ready for sale according the the forum news.

This product does 2 things:
1) Same as the buttkicker , so react to low freq sound. But then with 5 or 6 "shackers/kickers"
2) If the game is supported then it will do some more inteligent stuff like forcefeedback.

[kendo65]

Interesting thread. As the excitement builds for COD, I've just taken the plunge and ordered the CH Combat Stick and Pro throttle.

Need to get rudder pedals, and CH are the obvious choice, but I've heard that some people find them too narrow. Simpeds seem to get great reviews but the only site I can find

http://shop.strato.de/epages/Store6.sf/?ObjectPath=/Shops/219707

is currently out of stock for the no-toebrake versions (budget doesn't run high enough for the version with brakes!).

Does anyone know of alternative stockists for these pedals? I'm in UK.

Also, this is my first step out of fairly cheap all-in-one flightstick/throttles. What can I expect precision-wise from the CH products? A big difference?

Thanks.

[Royraiden]

Interesting thread. As the excitement builds for COD, I've just taken the plunge and ordered the CH Combat Stick and Pro throttle.

Need to get rudder pedals, and CH are the obvious choice, but I've heard that some people find them too narrow. Simpeds seem to get great reviews but the only site I can find

http://shop.strato.de/epages/Store6.sf/?ObjectPath=/Shops/219707

is currently out of stock for the no-toebrake versions (budget doesn't run high enough for the version with brakes!).

Does anyone know of alternative stockists for these pedals? I'm in UK.

Also, this is my first step out of fairly cheap all-in-one flightstick/throttles. What can I expect precision-wise from the CH products? A big difference?

Thanks.

Im going to order my Combatstick maybe by the end of next week, Ill come back and share my impressions.Im gonna go for the Ch throttle quadrant and I am still debating wether or not to get the Ch pedals because of them being narrow.I like the saiteks more but getting everything from one brand seems to be the logical choice.

[Triggaaar]

So did someone come up with the best solutions?

I expect to keep my MSFF2, and I'm looking for a throttle and maybe new pedals (I have driving pedals). I'm thinking of the CH quadrant throttle, any other suggestions on the best throttle/pedals to go with the MSFF2?

[ghodan]

So did someone come up with the best solutions?

I expect to keep my MSFF2, and I'm looking for a throttle and maybe new pedals (I have driving pedals). I'm thinking of the CH quadrant throttle, any other suggestions on the best throttle/pedals to go with the MSFF2?

Best solution?
Depends on the guys taste/style of hardware i think?

Best solutions in my mind are currently:
Thrustmaster Warthog with Saitek combat pedals.
Or if you like forcefeedback: Logitech G940 with saitek combat pedals instead of the pedals that come with the G940.

Or if you like ulta reliability then CH fighter or combat stick with their pro-thottle and throttle quad for more axis to bind to stuff and saitek combat pedals.

I silently hope CH will finally launch their new Hotas in 2011 complete with new redesigned pedals. (see me begging for info: http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/showthread.php?7204-CH-products-2010/page4 )

[Royraiden]

It would be a shame if Ch launched new gear a few months after I make my purchase,that would suck .

[ghodan]

It would be a shame if Ch launched new gear a few months after I make my purchase,that would suck .

Yeah i am also afraid for that.
in April 2010 i got a honest answer from CH products that they would not launch a new hotas in 2010.
See: http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/showthread.php?7204-CH-products-2010&p=43029#post43029

Buts its not 2010 anymore.
Maybe if you guys also post in this thread we can get a honest answer again from CH about 2011:
http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/showthread.php?7204-CH-products-2010/page4

I am so afraid that if i buy a Warthog (that is not cheap) and it will break some time in 2011 or 2012 that i will think back and regret not going for CH setup.
Or buy a Thrustmaster Warthog and then suddenly CH finally launch the commercial version of their A-10C stick (military version: http://www.ch-hangar.com/SiteFiles/Images/product_images/CHProd_IITSEC_2.jpg)
Of course their commercial A-10C stick would blow the warthog out of the water quality wise.
Don't care about the extra buttons the warhog has on the throttle base, i can make that myself with a Leo Bodnar usb chip (http://www.leobodnar.com/products/BU0836X/ or http://www.leobodnar.com/products/BU0836A/ )

[Triggaaar]

Best solutions in my mind are currently:
Thrustmaster Warthog with Saitek combat pedals.
Or if you like forcefeedback: Logitech G940 with saitek combat pedals instead of the pedals that come with the G940.

Or if you like ulta reliability then CH fighter or combat stick with their pro-thottle and throttle quad for more axis to bind to stuff and saitek combat pedals.So you think perhaps the Saitek combat pedals then :)

That's really handy if you think they're the best regardless if the rest of gear, although I can't see them for sale anywhere.

I'm tempted to pickup the CH Quad Throttle now, as I don't have a separate throttle yet.

[Luftwaffepilot]

woot? Ch wants to make a A-10 stick replica too?

What's so special about A-10 sticks.

[lbuchele]

Why not a good WW2 era stick and throttle set-up?
I think it's a gap in the market isn't it?

[Royraiden]

Why not a good WW2 era stick and throttle set-up?
I think it's a gap in the market isn't it?

Totally agree!

[Sokol1]

Why not a good WW2 era stick and throttle set-up?
I think it's a gap in the market isn't it?

Very small gap - dont interest the major brands (Saitek, CH, Thustmaster, Logitec...)

Some guy made they own.

Take some drawings:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/frisianviper/KG13B-version2.jpg

And original manual for KG-12B:

http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/k/Knueppelgriffe/Knueppelgriff%20KG%2012.pdf

Take some metal an carve you grip:

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu187/Siegfried278/KG13%20Project/pulido02.jpg
http://www.escuadron69.net/v20/foro/index.php?/topic/42443-mi-proyecto-kg13-personalizada/

Or get 1:1 plastic model of KG-13B:

http://hyperscale.com/images/controlstickbg_2.jpg
http://hyperscale.com/2009/reviews/kits/tailboombf109stickbg_1.htm

Assemble and make a mold plug and replicate in more resistant resin:

http://www.taffe.de/53958996b41421a0f/53958996b414daf3f/53958996e9130a107/index.html
http://www.escuadron69.net/v20/foro/index.php?/topic/43236-kg13a-steuerknuppelgriff-a-escala-11/

Or cast in metal, like this guy.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5284/5334229852_0fb5dea00b.jpg
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3133178/MMaister_s_KG13A_project.html#Post3133178

Realist, the more WW II era look that you can buy is this...

http://www.itreviews.co.uk/graphics/normal/hardware/h1155.jpg

And, the simulation market shout for more "Jet Fighter" sticks, ie. A-10 look from CH...

Sokol1

[ghodan]

@ Sokol:

Or just buy it:
http://www.valiant-studio.eu/tarmac/html/en/hangar.php

[Sokol1]

Ghodan,

I know (since 2005).

http://www.checksix-forums.com/showthread.php?t=105622
Interesting, the initial proposal mentions Oleg.

But, due high quality (all metal, ball bearing, hydraulic dampers..), 1:1 replica, small production, the prices are prohibitive to "mere simmers"... :(

So, people with skill, machinery (and money :) ) build their own.

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/start-finish-builds/spitfire-ix-cockpit-1-1-a-17217-2.html

This is not replica like Tarmac Aces, but a more "budget" option to get one KG-13 - grip only, to assembly in your stick base. Around 100 Euros (without switch's):

http://www.simaviatik.com/images/Me109/mail-5.jpg
http://www.simaviatik.com/en/index.php?show=me109

;)

Sokol1

[roadczar]

I just ordered a Thrustmaster Warthog setup. I hope it performs better than some of their past high end sticks. I’ll use my MSFFB2 as a backup.

[speculum jockey]

I just ordered a Thrustmaster Warthog setup. I hope it performs better than some of their past high end sticks. I’ll use my MSFFB2 as a backup.

Keep and eye on the throttle. From what I've heard that's the main issue with them degrading fast, having spikey axis, and so-forth. Still I think those issues have been somewhat rare, but common enough to show up on the net.

[roadczar]

Keep and eye on the throttle. From what I've heard that's the main issue with them degrading fast, having spikey axis, and so-forth. Still I think those issues have been somewhat rare, but common enough to show up on the net.

Really!? :evil: Spiking was the problem with their past units – got tired of replacing the pots.

[Matt255]

OK, some throttles died (do you have an ASUS motherboard? seems like those could be the problem in combination with the Warthog), but spikey axes are pretty much impossible with hall-effect sensors (the Warthog has no potis anywhere) and i never ever heard anything about spikey axes with the Warthog EVER.

And yes, i own that thing since november.

[ghodan]

Throttle of the Warhotg cant spike because they dont use pots!

It has a hall sensor per throttle.
confirmed in review: http://www.simhq.com/_technology3/technology_174b.html

[speculum jockey]

Sorry, thinking of the Saitek X-52, It's the warthog that had the throttles that arrived DOA or died early, not the spiking.

[Sokol1]

There's no problem with X-52 pots (rudder, throttle, trim) when is new - only after some use (~1 year).

Problem is with G940 throttle and trims (reverse bug) - apparently due short internal cables.

Sokol1

[Chivas]

I have a set of Saitek Pro Rudder pedals that work just fine. I've been trying to find a joystick to replace my no longer supported MSFF2 over the last few years. Starting from the Cougar, CH Fighterstick, Logitech G940, and Thrustmaster Warthog. None of them work as well as the Microsoft stick. I thought the G940 was greatly improved with the last drivers and firmware, but after a month or so I went back to the MSFF2 and was instantly a much better flyer and marksmen.

The CH Fighterstick will last you along time I just didn't like the clunky gimbal setup travelling thru the xy axis.

The original Cougar was like turning a tree trunk still routed to the ground.

The new Thrustmaster Warthog was exceedingly smooth except travelling thru center. All these sticks couldn't compare to the smoothness and accuracy of the MSFF2.

I currently use the Cougar throttle and Saitek Pro Rudders, with the MSFF2.

[speculum jockey]

There's no problem with X-52 pots (rudder, throttle, trim) when is new - only after some use (~1 year).

Problem is with G940 throttle and trims (reverse bug) - apparently due short internal cables.

Sokol1

Know some guys (plural) who had to return their X-52's multiple times to get one that worked properly out of the box. One of the biggest pieces of advice given to people considering the X-52 is to get it from a store nearby so you don't waste too much on gas.

[Royraiden]

I have a set of Saitek Pro Rudder pedals that work just fine. I've been trying to find a joystick to replace my no longer supported MSFF2 over the last few years. Starting from the Cougar, CH Fighterstick, Logitech G940, and Thrustmaster Warthog. None of them work as well as the Microsoft stick. I thought the G940 was greatly improved with the last drivers and firmware, but after a month or so I went back to the MSFF2 and was instantly a much better flyer and marksmen.

The CH Fighterstick will last you along time I just didn't like the clunky gimbal setup travelling thru the xy axis.

The original Cougar was like turning a tree trunk still routed to the ground.

The new Thrustmaster Warthog was exceedingly smooth except travelling thru center. All these sticks couldn't compare to the smoothness and accuracy of the MSFF2.

I currently use the Cougar throttle and Saitek Pro Rudders, with the MSFF2.

At last some info on the the Saitek pedals.For how long have you used them?If they seem to last then Im sold for the Saiteks.

[Chivas]

The Saitek Pro Rudders have been used for atleast a couple of years with problems, The toe brakes work great and I like their wide stance, and tension adjustment. I do not like the Saitek software for the toe brakes which is totally counter intuitive.

[swiss]

Know some guys (plural) who had to return their X-52's multiple times to get one that worked properly out of the box. One of the biggest pieces of advice given to people considering the X-52 is to get it from a store nearby so you don't waste too much on gas.

/sign.
They aren't bad at all, though.
Once you found working one.
And the price is sexy too, if the shop isn't too far away...

[Royraiden]

The Saitek Pro Rudders have been used for atleast a couple of years with problems, The toe brakes work great and I like their wide stance, and tension adjustment. I do not like the Saitek software for the toe brakes which is totally counter intuitive.

With problems or without?I guess you meant without.Can you use them without the software?Saitek software seems to be quite infamous.

[swiss]

?Saitek software seems to be quite infamous.

Experienced some problems with it under XP(BSOD) - with 7 it so rocks.

[Royraiden]

Im a bit confused this pedals are labeled as Saitek but below it says Madcatz.I know both are related but should I be worried if it is Madcatz or they both are the same?By the way Im gonna order the CH Combatstick now :D
http://www.compusa.pr/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4618705&CatId=141

[swiss]

Madcatz bought Saitek some time ago.

btw: http://store.gameshark.com/viewItem.asp?idProduct=4994&idCategory=312

[Royraiden]

Madcatz bought Saitek some time ago.

btw: http://store.gameshark.com/viewItem.asp?idProduct=4994&idCategory=312

199.99 is just too much.

[swiss]

199.99 is just too much.

Well those are the latest, and maybe, aren't superior at all...

If you have the chance try to look at the saitek pedals ($113) in real life.
The ones I had in my hands felt pretty wobbly*. Of course they still can last several years - but it's something that kept me from buying them.
and the fact the ask $150 for them over here, the combat pedals aren' even available.

You wont find cheaper ones though. Maybe you should also check ebay for CH's (USB!)..

*poor craftsmanship (true Saitek standards)

[roadczar]

OK, some throttles died (do you have an ASUS motherboard? seems like those could be the problem in combination with the Warthog), but spikey axes are pretty much impossible with hall-effect sensors (the Warthog has no potis anywhere) and i never ever heard anything about spikey axes with the Warthog EVER.

And yes, i own that thing since november.


Yes, Asus MB. I will see how it goes - should have it on Thursday.

[Royraiden]

Well those are the latest, and maybe, aren't superior at all...

If you have the chance try to look at the saitek pedals ($113) in real life.
The ones I had in my hands felt pretty wobbly*. Of course they still can last several years - but it's something that kept me from buying them.
and the fact the ask $150 for them over here, the combat pedals aren' even available.

You wont find cheaper ones though. Maybe you should also check ebay for CH's (USB!)..

*poor craftsmanship (true Saitek standards)

The Saitek are $115 and the CH $105 cant decide yet.

[roadczar]

...

The new Thrustmaster Warthog was exceedingly smooth except travelling thru center. All these sticks couldn't compare to the smoothness and accuracy of the MSFF2.

I currently use the Cougar throttle and Saitek Pro Rudders, with the MSFF2.

Hey Chivas it's been a while!

So you like MSFF2 better than Warthog? What happened to your Warthog setup?

[Chivas]

Hey Chivas it's been a while!

So you like MSFF2 better than Warthog? What happened to your Warthog setup?

Hey road...good ta cya

The Warthog was a beautiful peice of kit, and the ball joint (non gimbal system) was exceptionally smooth. Except while traveling thru center where there was a considerable change in force required. I also had some flaky buttons on the throttle so I descided to send it back and maybe purchase another in a year or so if they update the stick.

Unfortunately I still can't find a joystick better than the MSFF2, combined with the Cougar throttle and Saitek Pro rudders.

[Chivas]

With problems or without?I guess you meant without.Can you use them without the software?Saitek software seems to be quite infamous.

Yes I meant without problems, and yes you can use them without the software. The rudders are well made, but I wouldn't recommend an X52 joystick. Your best option is a MSFF2 which you can still pickup new on ebay, barring that the CH products are well built and will last forever.

There are some Microsoft SideWinder Precision 2 Joystick for USB Port on ebay ranging for 9 dollars and 39 dollars used and I think a couple of new ones ranging from 75 to 150 dollars.

[Royraiden]

Yes I meant without problems, and yes you can use them without the software. The rudders are well made, but I wouldn't recommend an X52 joystick. Your best option is a MSFF2 which you can still pickup new on ebay, barring that the CH products are well built and will last forever.

There are some Microsoft SideWinder Precision 2 Joystick for USB Port on ebay ranging for 9 dollars and 39 dollars used and I think a couple of new ones ranging from 75 to 150 dollars.

Im convinced to buy the CH Combatstick,was about to buy it yesterday but Im gonna wait till friday when I get paid.

[ghodan]

Can somebody explain to me why the MSFF2 is beter then the Logitech G940?

I see them as the only 2 forcefeedback options.

[T}{OR]

Can somebody explain to me why the MSFF2 is beter then the Logitech G940?

I see them as the only 2 forcefeedback options.

Optical sensors which almost don't wear at all over time - and the fact that people are still using them after ~10 years. If that isn't a testament to its quality I don't know what is. Not to mention that it is very precise (not on the Warthog and moded Cougar level but still very accurate).

G940 pots start to wear under a year, or so people say. Then there are other issues with it - bad cabling inside the throttle section (results in spiking), reversal bug (albeit removed but only for the stick, all other trim tabs & rudder pedals still have it), etc...

A real shame, Logitech could have had the best all around stick/HOTAS/system out there but they failed in doing so.

[swiss]

Can somebody explain to me why the MSFF2 is beter then the Logitech G940?

I see them as the only 2 forcefeedback options.

Better for... IL2.
Could be due to some driver issue as well - game and stick have roughly the same age.
Expect your G940 to work better in CoD.


I just bought a used FF2, should arrive tomorrow. I wonder how I'll like it.

[speculum jockey]

A real shame, Logitech could have had the best all around stick/HOTAS/system out there but they failed in doing so.

Thrustmaster: "Our joystick is metal, precision made, costs a fortune, but we still use some of the cheapest parts possible just to save $3.00 a unit".

Logitech: "We give you the whole deal, plus Force-feedback! Only we don't do any manner of in-depth or long-term testing, plus we use cheap pots! Did we mention we only update our software every 4 years?"

Saitek: "We're the joystick equivalent of Russian Roulette! Come on and take a chance! Every 10th customer is a winner!"

CH: "Yes! We're still in business. Our rudder pedals might make you infertile and our product line looks like a cataloge from 1995, but we make quality stuff."

[Royraiden]

Thrustmaster: "Our joystick is metal, precision made, costs a fortune, but we still use some of the cheapest parts possible just to save $3.00 a unit".

Logitech: "We give you the whole deal, plus Force-feedback! Only we don't do any manner of in-depth or long-term testing, plus we use cheap pots! Did we mention we only update our software every 4 years?"

Saitek: "We're the joystick equivalent of Russian Roulette! Come on and take a chance! Every 10th customer is a winner!"

CH: "Yes! We're still in business. Our rudder pedals might make you infertile and our product line looks like a cataloge from 1995, but we make quality stuff."
Thats some funny stuff!I just ordered my Combatstick and I got to admit that the base looks from the 80's. :D

[Chivas]

Can somebody explain to me why the MSFF2 is beter then the Logitech G940?

I see them as the only 2 forcefeedback options.

The MSFF2 is smoother, more precise and accurate than any joystick on the market because of the smooth gimbal system, and adjustable center tension that provides smooth, constant pressure movement thru all points of travel.

EVERY other joystick has abrupt force changes as some points of travel. This may be realistic, but it makes smooth precise flying and shooting, just a tad more difficult than it is with the MSFF2. Except maybe some Cougar mods that I haven't tried.

The con against the MSFF2 is its software isn't supported in Windows7, so you have to use the ingame software to assign buttons.

The G940 came close, but their grinding gears, and flaky centering software left them a little lacking.

The best of the non forcefeedback sticks is the Warthog. This stick has the smoothest feel but abrupt force change thru center.

[speculum jockey]

** Accurate summation of joysticks**.

What I find to be the biggest "WTF" is that it's 2011, we have multi core CPU/GPU systems, people have on average a TB or hard disk space, our mice use freaking lasers, we stream HD video over the internet, our displays are super thin and up to 27" wide, you can pick up a printer than scans and prints nearly as well as a photo studio for $100 or less, and not one company can make a joystick that is an all-around winner. Every joystick out there has some sort of issue that should not exist given the technology we have today.

Thrustmaster really has no excuse when they're charging as much for their Warthog as most college kids first car and Logitech should be ashamed since they sould have been able to see their G940 glaring errors with even a cursory glance.

[Royraiden]

What I find to be the biggest "WTF" is that it's 2011, we have multi core CPU/GPU systems, people have on average a TB or hard disk space, our mice use freaking lasers, we stream HD video over the internet, our displays are super thin and up to 27" wide, you can pick up a printer than scans and prints nearly as well as a photo studio for $100 or less, and not one company can make a joystick that is an all-around winner. Every joystick out there has some sort of issue that should not exist given the technology we have today.

Thrustmaster really has no excuse when they're charging as much for their Warthog as most college kids first car and Logitech should be ashamed since they sould have been able to see their G940 glaring errors with even a cursory glance.

The problem is that this market isnt the most profitable,that is no excuse by any means but they just dont give their best to accomplish the task of providing a reliable product.For example I used my brothers Logitech Force GT racing wheel and I found no problems except some minor cosmetic issues.Has been working great for more than a year and it seems it will continue working like it is supposed to for a long time.

[speculum jockey]

The problem is that this market isnt the most profitable,that is no excuse by any means but they just dont give their best to accomplish the task of providing a reliable product.For example I used my brothers Logitech Force GT racing wheel and I found no problems except some minor cosmetic issues.Has been working great for more than a year and it seems it will continue working like it is supposed to for a long time.

Exactly! I alsmost never hear about issues with their racing products. Never heard about a reversal bug, or overheating issues, or spiking axis, but as soon as they make a joystick I would be interested in buying. . . .

reversal
overheating
spiking
wearing out after a year
etc.

[Royraiden]

It is a shame that such expensive setups as the Warthog and G940 still have issues.Since my bad experience with my Logitech joystick I decided to stay away from any Logitech flight related hardware and even if I had the money to get the Warthog I wouldnt buy it.

[Chivas]

The Warthog is built by Thrustmaster.

[Royraiden]

The Warthog is built by Thrustmaster.

Im well aware of that, I was talking about expensive joysticks.

[ghodan]

Just when i was putting back the G940 and Warthog in my list of "maybe buy" reading your comments makes me scrap them from my list again.

CH setup?
But i don't like CH pedals size, 13 inch from left to right.
I don't like Pro throttle almost no resistance and straight travel.

Currently have a almost untouched X45 and saitek throttle quad.
But want to sell it before it going to spike.

Also have cougar but upgrade to hall sensors cost 220 dollar.

Wanna sell them and buy something that last.

[Royraiden]

Just when i was putting back the G940 and Warthog in my list of "maybe buy" reading your comments makes me scrap them from my list again.

CH setup?
But i don't like CH pedals size, 13 inch from left to right.
I don't like Pro throttle almost no resistance and straight travel.

Currently have a almost untouched X45 and saitek throttle quad.
But want to sell it before it going to spike.

Also have cougar but upgrade to hall sensors cost 220 dollar.

Wanna sell them and buy something that last.
CH throttle quadrant and Saitek rudder pedals could be an option for you.

[ghodan]

So does the forcefeedback of the MSFFB2 work good without a windows 7 driver in windows 7?

[T}{OR]

As advertised - you just don't have any means of lowering its strength. You have to do it in game and IL2 has no such option. Hopefully CoD will or else I will have to bolt it down to my desk. :)

[swiss]

Every joystick out there has some sort of issue that should not exist given the technology we have today.


You could build one, it's not even such a big deal.
The problem is relatively low sales numbers and a price of around $500.
I'm also pretty sure there are patent on every possible mechanical solution, so you'll either have to pay royalties or spend a crapload to find a way around them.

Plus you'll kick yourself out of business because your products never fail. :grin:

[KG26_Alpha]

So does the forcefeedback of the MSFFB2 work good without a windows 7 driver in windows 7?

It works fine and you can lower the centre tension FFB if you need to by editing the IL2 1946 Spring force feed back file with Fedit.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/8531046888





.

[Royraiden]

Have any of you seen a video review of CH products? Its amazing that theres not a single video in youtube showing the sticks or throttles only one or two of the pedals.I've only seen the the Combat and Fighterstick in a few videos of people vaguely showing off their simpit gear and in a few scenes of one of the first videos of this game when Ilya got interviewed.Ill have to make them when I get my gear.

[Royraiden]

Just ordered the CH PRO Pedals and CH Throttle Quadrant.The waiting game begins again.

[Sokol1]

Don't know more details about this DIY "WWII Hotas" (for lefties), but show nice ideas, modified car seat, extend stick (probable with DIY gimbal) with angled grip, throttle/button box with rotaries for trim (notice decals):

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/5016/wwiihotas.jpg (http://img708.imageshack.us/i/wwiihotas.jpg/)

Probable made with USB card like L.Bodnar BU0836 and grips from old stiks.

Looks better for IL-2 that these F/A something HOTAS. ;)

This VRInsight panel is useful (and bit expensive): push and toggle buttons, 6 rotary encoders (white knobs), 6 axis (2 knos, 4 sliders), 4 way siwitch (HAT).

http://www.flightires.com/shop/images/stories/2654205404cb5004c8edd0.jpg
http://www.simw.com/hardware/control-panel/multi-switch-panel.html

Sokol1

[No601_Merlin]

I have had quality issues with Saitek kit, however I have used the same HOTAS from CH for seven years and still going strong. If I was to change anything it would be the pedals but only because I don't like the foot rest design.

S!

[Royraiden]

I have had quality issues with Saitek kit, however I have used the same HOTAS from CH for seven years and still going strong. If I was to change anything it would be the pedals but only because I don't like the foot rest design.

S!

Thanks for the info,I know I wont be dissapointed.

[blampars]

I just broke down a few days ago and ordered a full ch setup.
Fighterstick
Throttle
Pedals

I read reviews and user comments on all the popular hotas setups, and going ch was a no brainer after a comparison. The following is just my observations after reading many forums and user comments on items.

X52/Pro - Low quality, modding almost required to get a decent functional set.

G940 - really promising, but reversal bugs in the pedals and throttle leave much to be desired. Radio silence on the logitech forum makes you wonder if those issues will ever be fixed at this point. This is what I was looking to get. (full setup on amazon for $239.00)

CH Products - Pricey, but durable. Lasts a long time and no major issues with the hardware. Big modding community to make your gear even better than it (hopefully!) already is. No need to mod the items out of the box.

Now if Amazon and TigerDirect will just get on the ball and SHIP my stuff to me I should be all set to do some real flying by next weekend. I've had IL2 since release in 2001 and have always been a Joystick/Keyboard/Mouse player. This is going to be great :cool:

[Royraiden]

I just broke down a few days ago and ordered a full ch setup.
Fighterstick
Throttle
Pedals

I read reviews and user comments on all the popular hotas setups, and going ch was a no brainer after a comparison. The following is just my observations after reading many forums and user comments on items.

X52/Pro - Low quality, modding almost required to get a decent functional set.

G940 - really promising, but reversal bugs in the pedals and throttle leave much to be desired. Radio silence on the logitech forum makes you wonder if those issues will ever be fixed at this point. This is what I was looking to get. (full setup on amazon for $239.00)

CH Products - Pricey, but durable. Lasts a long time and no major issues with the hardware. Big modding community to make your gear even better than it (hopefully!) already is. No need to mod the items out of the box.

Now if Amazon and TigerDirect will just get on the ball and SHIP my stuff to me I should be all set to do some real flying by next weekend. I've had IL2 since release in 2001 and have always been a Joystick/Keyboard/Mouse player. This is going to be great :cool:

Well I bought the whole CH hotas from Tigerdirect about a week ago, they havent been shippiped.From what I understood CH Products would then process the order and ship the items directly.

[blampars]

Well I bought the whole CH hotas from Tigerdirect about a week ago, they havent been shippiped.From what I understood CH Products would then process the order and ship the items directly.

ah bugger! My fighterstick is from tigerdirect and it's said to be handed to a third party for processing and shipping. Wait 7-10 days for that. That's probably CH, then. Looks like I'll be waiting a while for this stuff then. Amazon hasn't shipped the throttle or pedals yet either, probably same situation.

thanks for that, will keep me from growing impatient and pulling my hair out :-P

[Royraiden]

The waiting game continues.The shipping method for me is UPS worldwide so I guess I will wait even longer.When I bought the parts for my pc I got them shipped with with UPS ground and it took 2 weeks to get here.

[blampars]

Oh wow that's bad. Reminds me of sending away for things through the mail. Mail out the order form, wait 8 weeks to recieve item. C'mon interwebs!

btw just watched your WoP dogfight video using freetrack (reading your headtracking thread now, I'm thinking about TrackIR 5...) Good stuff. Would you recommend WoP?

[Royraiden]

Well I got into ww2 combat sims because of Wop.The graphics are amazing but the gameplay is sub-par.I went from begginer to simulator in less than a month and even at the hardest difficulty you can see on my video that it is farily easy.Well it wasnt meant to be a simulator after all.Its a great starting point for new pilots though.I played Il-2 after Wop and even with the outdated graphics I noticed right away that it was miles ahead.I couldnt even take off the first time I tried Il-2.As for the head tracking you cant go wrong with TrackIR but it is really expensive.Ill be forced to get it if Freetrack is not supported so I need to wait.Theres a lot of non-sense on that other thread people dont know what is relevant and what is not.

[blampars]

Well I got into ww2 combat sims because of Wop.The graphics are amazing but the gameplay is sub-par.I went from begginer to simulator in less than a month and even at the hardest difficulty you can see on my video that it is farily easy.Well it wasnt mean to be a simulator after all.Its a great starting point for new pilots though.I played Il-2 after Wop and even with the outdated graphics I noticed right away that it was miles ahead.I couldnt even take off the first time I tried Il-2.As for the head tracking you cant go wrong with TrackIR but it is really expensive.Ill be force to get it if Freetrack is not supported so I need to wait.

Ah gotcha. I'm no master pilot, and quite frankly I suck at dogfights (hope to improve with new gear!). The graphics in WoP look really good, which is why I was wondering about it. I beefed up my system with 2 gtx 460's in SLI back in september and have been itching to get a sim with some major eye candy. I love IL2, don't get me wrong, but I also love sexy visuals.

As for head tracking I've been using FacetrackNoIR. I've got it working reasonably well but it's still slightly slower and not super precise. I get a lot of drifting or bobbing when I look around. I could probably fine tune it more but documentation is scarce and I don't understand what the different settings do really. It's all experimentation :D If I can't get it down pat I'll probably whip out the charge for Track IR and hope the fiance doesn't notice. I still havn't figured out how I'm going to explain the full CH Hotas setup yet hehe...

[Royraiden]

You could download the Wop demo and see if you like it.If I were you I would start with it to get some experience and practice.One downside to it is that the demo does not record your input setup,so everytime you launch it you would have to setup your gear again.

[blampars]

oh hell, didn't even dawn on me to check for a demo heh.
Downloading from steam now ;)

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

got the CH fighter Stick Roy and I love it,took me a little while to get used to it after the x52 pro but so glad i bought it now:)
hope you get yours soon and Blampers:)

[blampars]

Amazon shipped out the pedals today so I should have them by Tuesday. That alone will make a big difference.

Roy, did you decide on a set? I can't remember if you said so or not.

[ghodan]

Wow nice discount action on CH products just before launch of Il-2 CoD:
http://www.simw.com/hardware.html?dir=desc&manufacturer=65&mode=grid

20% discount on all CH hardware

[Royraiden]

Amazon shipped out the pedals today so I should have them by Tuesday. That alone will make a big difference.

Roy, did you decide on a set? I can't remember if you said so or not.
Yes,I bought the Combatstick,Ch Throttle quadrant and Ch pro pedals.

[Royraiden]

got the CH fighter Stick Roy and I love it,took me a little while to get used to it after the x52 pro but so glad i bought it now:)
hope you get yours soon and Blampers:)

I remember you and that you used the x-52 from the Wop forum.I guess I will get my stuff during the first days of March.

[ghodan]

With the 20% discount on CH hardware at a shop not so far from my city i will go full CH setup.

Just compared the centre force / returen to centre force / precise aiming between a Saitek X45 and a original core Cougar.
Man i never released that the Cougar is that bad.
The metal feel and sturdiness always mesmerize me never paying attention to what is bad/wrong with the Cougar (only knowing from forums that the pots will spike sooner then later)

I am going for:
CH Fighterstick .More buttons/4way switched to configure then combatstick.
CH pro throttle .Not really my favorite throttle but i will just blindly believe in the precision and build quality.
CH Throttle quad .More axis to config, adds extra 2way buttons to my setup. nice for bombers and advanced engine management stuff.
CH Pedals .... Not my favorite at all, but i somehow like to stick to one brand with gear i use. and its cheap now with discount.

Thinking about buying the CH Eclipse Yoke to for bombers. But maybe my wife will think i am going totally crazy coming home with 5 CH boxes :-P

Update:
Then thinking about it again... CH pedals compared to Saitek combat pedals is only 50 euro difference at this moment.
50 euro difference is not much if we are talking about the most badly sized rudder pedals on the market today and the most awesome rudder pedals (Saitek combat pedals) on the market today.

[swiss]

and the most awesome rudder pedals (Saitek combat pedals) on the market today.


The "most awesome" are probably the simped F16.

[Royraiden]

The "most awesome" are probably the simped F16.

With an "awesome" price tag eh?

[swiss]

with an "awesome" price tag eh?

$400 :(

[Royraiden]

$400 :(

Thats just too much :(

[ghodan]

Simped are not the most awesome.
Because:
1) Price
2) Weight is to light you can kick them away as seen here at 0:20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42J_kgH7geM

Saitek combat pedals are BIG (Huge)
149 euro (if you look for them not the official 200 euro price tag)
And a lot of metal parts.
I am not talking about the normal saitek pedals.
I am talking about this beast http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/compedals.html

[Hecke]

Thank you ghodan for the link. I didn't know that Saitek had some new stuff now.

Is there any info about a hotas being worked on or just released?

[Winger]

First of all Im new here so If there is a hardware section or similar where this should be posted please let me know.So right now I got a Logitech Force 3dPro which I've used for a whole year,the main problem it got is that the centering is terrible,causing unstable movements even when Im trying to fly straight(just cruising).My other problem is the twist rudder, which almost every time I press the trigger I twist the stick throwing my aim off.So since this game is coming pretty soon I figured out that it would be better for me to get a whole hotas setup instead of just replacing the stick to have a better experience and enjoy the game better.Im almost sure of what to get but would like some feedback.This would be the setup:

-CH Combatstick 568 USB
-Saitek Throttle Quadrant
-Saitek Rudder Pedals

I want to know if having saitek+ch would give me any trouble while mapping controls,also if anyone has any of these items or their counterparts(ch rudder pedals and throttle quadrant)please let me know what you think of it.
My budget is $300 including shipping.There are other setups in this price range as the G940 and the X-52/X65.But out of those three I dont like the looks of the x/52 and the whole idea of the force sensing on the x65 is not of my liking.As for the Logitech, the whole setup seems nice but after my experience with my current joystick and a lot of reviews of people complaining about various issues, I guess I wouldnt buy it either.

The setup you consider will most likely be a big step upwards from what you have. However my opinion is that if youre a real flightsim fan and plan on flying the next years the best equipment is just good enough. So for me i decided to use a thrustmaster Warthog Hotas and some simped brake usb pedals. Currently i am active in Rise of flight and al i can say to this estup is WOW. Absolute precision. Costly but definately worth every cent.

Winger

[Winger]

Simped are not the most awesome.
Because:
1) Price
2) Weight is to light you can kick them away as seen here at 0:20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42J_kgH7geM

Saitek combat pedals are BIG (Huge)
149 euro (if you look for them not the official 200 euro price tag)
And a lot of metal parts.
I am not talking about the normal saitek pedals.
I am talking about this beast http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/compedals.html

Sorry but them being light is right but them just being pushed away is big BS since that only happens if you are braindead and DO NOT use the included hook and loop tape to fix them on the ground...

winger

[swiss]

Saitek combat pedals are BIG (Huge)


I found no info on the weight. Did you?



149 euro (if you look for them not the official 200 euro price tag)


Where?
Afaik there are no retailers other the saitek itself.



And a lot of metal parts.
I am not talking about the normal saitek pedals.
I am talking about this beast http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/compedals.html

I like the design too, however I'm everything but confident in quality when it wears a Saitek label.
Sorry.

[ghodan]

Dont know were you are from but here in Holland (netherlands) you can buy Saitek stuff anywhere.
The cheap prices for the combat pedals are:
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/unsorted/351478/saitek-flight-simulation-pro-flight-combat-rudder-pedals.html (4 stores that have it for 150 to 160 euro. saitek official price is 199 euro)

and my favorite online hw store has them to for under 150
http://www.salland.eu/product/953768/saitek-flight-simulation-pro-flight-combat-rudder-pedals-scb432020002-02-1.html

Weight 13.10 lbs

look at the size of it compared to the already big g25 or g27 race wheel pedals
http://img33.imageshack.us/i/full8897482720110110002.jpg/
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3/full8897482720110110002.jpg (http://img33.imageshack.us/i/full8897482720110110002.jpg/)



who designed those CH pedals?
Epic fail in size (and man parts comfort?)
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/6105/technology104a004.jpg (http://img827.imageshack.us/i/technology104a004.jpg/)

[swiss]

Dont know were you are from

Take a guess by the user name. ;)

Maybe I should consider getting them from NL, they unavailable here.
(-11% tax plus shipping) - at this price they are pretty interesting.

About the anti slip(they all slip):

Construction appears pretty good, metal pedals with plastic base however the extension that attached to the base where you place your feet has a metal cross base which adds to the weight & helps prevent slippage I guess. I have carpet & they still slip on that however Saitek supply velcro tape to help aleviate that problem. I have mine wedged up against a couple of tiles which in turn are placed against the wall to stop them from going anywhere.

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/326558-saitek-pro-flight-combat-rudder-pedals/

[Royraiden]

Dont know were you are from but here in Holland (netherlands) you can buy Saitek stuff anywhere.
The cheap prices for the combat pedals are:
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/unsorted/351478/saitek-flight-simulation-pro-flight-combat-rudder-pedals.html (4 stores that have it for 150 to 160 euro. saitek official price is 199 euro)

and my favorite online hw store has them to for under 150
http://www.salland.eu/product/953768/saitek-flight-simulation-pro-flight-combat-rudder-pedals-scb432020002-02-1.html

Weight 13.10 lbs

look at the size of it compared to the already big g25 or g27 race wheel pedals
http://img33.imageshack.us/i/full8897482720110110002.jpg/
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3/full8897482720110110002.jpg (http://img33.imageshack.us/i/full8897482720110110002.jpg/)



who designed those CH pedals?
Epic fail in size (and man parts comfort?)
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/6105/technology104a004.jpg (http://img827.imageshack.us/i/technology104a004.jpg/)

Thanks for that picture with both the CH and Saitek pedals.I guess is a trade off between comfort and reliability,plus im not a big guy so I guess Ill be fine with the CH.

[ghodan]

One more pic before i leave
http://www.aerosoft.de/shop-rd/bilder/screenshots/hardware/saitekcombatpedals/saitekcombatpedals_2.jpg
you can setup the brakes in different angels

[blampars]

With the 20% discount on CH hardware at a shop not so far from my city i will go full CH setup.

Just compared the centre force / returen to centre force / precise aiming between a Saitek X45 and a original core Cougar.
Man i never released that the Cougar is that bad.
The metal feel and sturdiness always mesmerize me never paying attention to what is bad/wrong with the Cougar (only knowing from forums that the pots will spike sooner then later)

I am going for:
CH Fighterstick .More buttons/4way switched to configure then combatstick.
CH pro throttle .Not really my favorite throttle but i will just blindly believe in the precision and build quality.
CH Throttle quad .More axis to config, adds extra 2way buttons to my setup. nice for bombers and advanced engine management stuff.
CH Pedals .... Not my favorite at all, but i somehow like to stick to one brand with gear i use. and its cheap now with discount.

Thinking about buying the CH Eclipse Yoke to for bombers. But maybe my wife will think i am going totally crazy coming home with 5 CH boxes :-P

Update:
Then thinking about it again... CH pedals compared to Saitek combat pedals is only 50 euro difference at this moment.
50 euro difference is not much if we are talking about the most badly sized rudder pedals on the market today and the most awesome rudder pedals (Saitek combat pedals) on the market today.

Just wanted to say I'm absolutely jealous you have a physical shop you can go to, to get cool stuff.. To my knowledge there is nothing of the sort over here, which is a bummer!

[swiss]

To my knowledge there is nothing of the sort over here, which is a bummer!

Take a guess why that is so. :(

[Royraiden]

Just wanted to say I'm absolutely jealous you have a physical shop you can go to, to get cool stuff.. To my knowledge there is nothing of the sort over here, which is a bummer!

Let me know if you get the Fighterstick shipped.I havent even been charged for my order :(

[blampars]

Let me know if you get the Fighterstick shipped.I havent even been charged for my order :(

FIGHTERSTICK USB W/ 8WAY SWITCH
Status: To Drop Shipper

Not yet shipped.


sad face

at least the rudder pedals are on their way

i don't think i'm going to order anything from tigerdirect again, i don't like how this is playing out much

@swiss -- i'm a terrible guesser, enlighten me :)

[Royraiden]

FIGHTERSTICK USB W/ 8WAY SWITCH
Status: To Drop Shipper

Not yet shipped.


sad face

at least the rudder pedals are on their way

i don't think i'm going to order anything from tigerdirect again, i don't like how this is playing out much

@swiss -- i'm a terrible guesser, enlighten me :)

Thats because of CH.Everything else I've ordered from them was delivered to me in 2 days and Im in the caribbean.

[swiss]

@swiss -- i'm a terrible guesser, enlighten me :)

10 - 15 Years ago there were a lot of shops around - then came the internet.
Better prices, less margin.
Given the fact your customer basis knows how to use the net, they learned to compare and go for the best price.
Shops with a staff and a expensive showroom couldn't compete, most of them are gone now.
Do you indeed win if you can get item x for the lowest price?
I don't think so.

Funny thing is, here in Zürich one the first hour e-shops has now a real, in fact pretty big, shop.

[blampars]

Thats because of CH.Everything else I've ordered from them was delivered to me in 2 days and Im in the caribbean.
Yeah, I just wish I would have known that ahead of time (i do look). I probably would have ordered right from CH themselves.

10 - 15 Years ago there were a lot of shops around - then came the internet.
Better prices, less margin.
Given the fact your customer basis knows how to use the net, they learned to compare and go for the best price.
Shops with a staff and a expensive showroom couldn't compete, most of them are gone now.
Do you indeed win if you can get item x for the lowest price?
I don't think so.

Funny thing is, here in Zürich one the first hour e-shops has now a real, in fact pretty big, shop.
Doh. Should have seen that one coming :P
I would just love to be able to TRY some of this stuff before I actually make the purchases. Unfortunately for me I'm the only "gamer" of anyone that I know, so I can't go try someone else's stuff before I get something. I wouldn't mind paying full retail for an item that I could have TODAY after I tried it out first. I do miss that about the olden days heh.

[Royraiden]

Yeah, I just wish I would have known that ahead of time (i do look). I probably would have ordered right from CH themselves.

Me too :(

[No601_Merlin]

Yeah, I just wish I would have known that ahead of time (i do look). I probably would have ordered right from CH themselves.


Doh. Should have seen that one coming :P
I would just love to be able to TRY some of this stuff before I actually make the purchases. Unfortunately for me I'm the only "gamer" of anyone that I know, so I can't go try someone else's stuff before I get something. I wouldn't mind paying full retail for an item that I could have TODAY after I tried it out first. I do miss that about the olden days heh.


This is one I made earlier :-P about six years ago actually for a friend considering CH HOTAS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5oABRybP90

[Royraiden]

This is one I made earlier :-P about six years ago actually for a friend considering CH HOTAS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5oABRybP90

Thanks for sharing.How is it working after 6 years?

[No601_Merlin]

Its still as good as the day I bought it. More expensive that the others available at the time but even if there was a problem I know CH have spares available unlike Saitek who could not supply me with a new support for an Eclipse 2 keyboard just last week, "we do not keep spares, RMA it" Out of warranty so I'm stuffed.

As I demonstrated you just need to be aware of the defined axis central rest ( I think thats part of why its lasted so long), I have got use to it.
I had to try this out driving 100 miles to do so as I am left handed, this was completely alien to me, now I would not consider using a control designed for left handers.

[Royraiden]

Its still as good as the day I bought it. More expensive that the others available at the time but even if there was a problem I know CH have spares available unlike Saitek who could not supply me with a new support for an Eclipse 2 keyboard just last week, "we do not keep spares, RMA it" Out of warranty so I'm stuffed.

As I demonstrated you just need to be aware of the defined axis central rest ( I think thats part of why its lasted so long), I have got use to it.
I had to try this out driving 100 miles to do so as I am left handed, this was completely alien to me, now I would not consider using a control designed for left handers.

Good.I cant wait for my Combatstick:grin:

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

is that a pic of you Roy?

[blampars]

This is one I made earlier :-P about six years ago actually for a friend considering CH HOTAS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5oABRybP90

hey thanks for that, looks good

[kendo65]

Simped are not the most awesome.
Because:
1) Price
2) Weight is to light you can kick them away as seen here at 0:20

Saitek combat pedals are BIG (Huge)
149 euro (if you look for them not the official 200 euro price tag)
And a lot of metal parts.
I am not talking about the normal saitek pedals.
I am talking about this beast http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/compedals.html

I've just got a set of Simped vario pro rudder pedals and am really impressed. Similar price to the Saitek.

Have to disagree that these ones move around - using them on carpet though rather than wooden floor - i haven't even felt the need to use the supplied velcro pads. Very nice and very precise control.

Using with CH Combat Stick and Pro Throttle. All excellent.

[Stipe]

Simped's are really nice. I tried both, the saitek rudders from a friend and then i bought simped vario pro. Very precise, sturdy and with velcro pads they don't move anywhere. No pots either. They will last you a minimum of 7-10 years.

[swiss]

Its still as good as the day I bought it. More expensive that the others available at the time but even if there was a problem I know CH have spares available unlike Saitek who could not supply me with a new support for an Eclipse 2 keyboard just last week, "we do not keep spares, RMA it" Out of warranty so I'm stuffed.


Do they really use their own supports?
Usually such stuff is made by a big keyboard manufacturer and relabeled.
Why dont you take a pic and post it in one of the big PC forums?

Maybe some recognizes it...

[Royraiden]

is that a pic of you Roy?

Yes Snake,Im the reincarnation of Adolf Galland!!

[Daniël]

Yes Snake,Im the reincarnation of Adolf Galland!!

:-P

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

Yes Snake,Im the reincarnation of Adolf Galland!!

lol i knew id seen that pic before somewhere:)

[Heliocon]

Man, I really dont know what to buy, I am kinda paranoid about throwing so much cash at a single game. Over that with the tech problems with the g940 I might just sit on my hand until I play COD and then decide if Iwill invest in the tech, does anyone know if any new setups / options are coming soon that are not incredibly expensive (or any decent force feedback joysticks?).

[Sauf]

Im in the same boat Heliocon, would love to buy the TM warthog and can maybe scratch the cash together but have been using saitek x45 and x52 over the last 6 years so would have to buy rudder pedals first as with the saiteks i only used the twist stick setup which i found ok, or maybe i just got used to it over the years, so thats another $200 which takes it to about $780, then there might be some pc upgrades i need :(

maybe we could get together and rob a bank! Im free most fridays.

[Heliocon]

Im in the same boat Heliocon, would love to buy the TM warthog and can maybe scratch the cash together but have been using saitek x45 and x52 over the last 6 years so would have to buy rudder pedals first as with the saiteks i only used the twist stick setup which i found ok, or maybe i just got used to it over the years, so thats another $200 which takes it to about $780, then there might be some pc upgrades i need :(

maybe we could get together and rob a bank! Im free most fridays.

Lol well I have been making due with a Logitech extreme 3d pro (twist stick also) - but if I am going for hotus I will probably get trackIR also so its alot, a big problem though is there just seems to be very few options, and all of them seem to have a big con. Like I was leaning to the g940 but with all the bug it has, and the fact that I find its material/build quality alittle "suspect" (all crappy looking pastic) I am just sitting on my hands for now. Too bad you cant go into a store anymore and cop a feel/look at them (yes this was the least dirty thing I could say).

[Blackdog_kt]

I've been using a microsoft sidewinder precision pro 2 for more than a decade now. I too was thinking of getting a hotas set a couple of years ago, but the sidewinder is not only reliable but also has a certain build quality and feel, so i ended up spending on a trackIR 4 instead.

Well, recently my trackIR camera died after a power failure, the trackclip pro with the LEDs works fine though and i've been experimenting with freetrack, trying to decide if it suits me or i should buy a used trackIR4 set.

I too have been thinking of upgrading my stick options, but a combination of my trackIR throwing a spanner in the works financially speaking, the value of the sidewinder stick i already have being so well proven after all these years and the issues with the rest of the hotas sets available currently (it looks like it's a choice between flimsy construction, bugs or extra high cost and even the not so top of the line options are not exactly cheap), i have been increasingly thinking of going for a customized solution.

Recently i got a friend of mine back into flight sims after a long break, he started flying IL2 and we are eagerly expecting CoD. He had an old saitek X35 hotas that uses a gameport interface, so i suggested to him Leo Bodnar's BU0836 USB joystick controller.
For those of you that might not know it, it's a USB capable joystick controller that comes in a few different versions (have a look here:http://www.leobodnar.com/ ). He opened up the hotas cables, rewired it all through the BU0836 and can now use his old set just fine.

Naturally, after seeing the small size of the chip and already knowing its capabilities i started getting ideas of myself. I don't have a lot of spare room where i keep my PC, so even if i were to spring for throttle quadrants and rudder pedals i'm not sure it would be a comfortable fit for my available space.

I talked to my buddy about it and we might start if off by building a set of pedals first (he put it in a somewhat funny way too, he said "sure why not, i'm not going to pay $200 for a glorified seesaw with a potentiometer in the middle :-P )
He's well versed in tinkering with electronics which i'm not exactly an expert on, but on the other hand he's clumsy and not really comfortable with the mechanical part. However, after many years of helping my father with small, improvised home improvement jobs i think i could pull it off, so we would have a good synergy going.

The good thing about it all is that i can start as simple as bolting 3-4 pieces of flat wood together as proof of concept and then start improving gradually as i go from there. However, my main aim would be to make something of metal construction at some point and use hall effect sensors instead of potentiometers. I think i'm going to keep the stick and maybe just modify it with hall effect sensors and rewire it through the BU0836, i'd really like to make an elongated modification but it won't fit anywhere near my desk. However, what i'm mainly aiming for is building a set of pedals, plus a throttle quadrant with a small bank of switches that i can bolt on to my desk with some sort of clamp assembly.
Some family friends run an auto repair shop which i think would be a prime spot to search for spare levers, mounting joints and what not instead of having to pay for custom machined parts that would increase the cost.

[blampars]

Man, I really dont know what to buy, I am kinda paranoid about throwing so much cash at a single game. Over that with the tech problems with the g940 I might just sit on my hand until I play COD and then decide if Iwill invest in the tech, does anyone know if any new setups / options are coming soon that are not incredibly expensive (or any decent force feedback joysticks?).

The way I looked at it is wanting a new flight sim experience in general, rather than spending all this money just for CoD. In reality, CoD is what drove me to buy the new gear. In some crazy chance that I end up hating the game when it comes out, at least I know I'm still going to have a stellar experience playing IL-2, or something from DCS, or whatever strikes my fancy.

The warthog hotas is nice, but it seems overkill to me at $500 for the average flight simmer. I ended up with the CH Hotas setup including pedals which was a smidge over 300 total and sprung for TrackIR 5 with the Pro Clip. All together I spent around 500 which was just the cost of the warthog without pedals. I normally wouldn't have spent that much on gaming at once, but I had worked a ton of overtime last pay due to snow and had the money to spare.

The point I'm making is it's not like the equipment you're buying is only going to work with CoD. It's going to make youre experience better with any sim you fly, and because of that, I think it's worth the investment if you're into sims as much as most of us are.

-b

[ghodan]

After months of thinking about what to get i have bought a full CH setup.

CH Throttle Quadrant
CH Pro Pedals
CH F-16 Fighterstick & Pro Throttle Bundle

If i really really like the stuff i will buy a CH yoke later this year to fly the bombers in IL2

[Royraiden]

After months of thinking about what to get i have bought a full CH setup.

CH Throttle Quadrant
CH Pro Pedals
CH F-16 Fighterstick & Pro Throttle Bundle

If i really really like the stuff i will buy a CH yoke later this year to fly the bombers in IL2

Where did you buy the stuff?

[ghodan]

Where did you buy the stuff?

http://www.simw.com/hardware.html?dir=desc&manufacturer=65&mode=grid

Normal price 458 euro
I got it for 366 euro
:cool:

And now i need to sell my saitek x45 + saitek throttle quad
and my Cougar.

[Royraiden]

http://www.simw.com/hardware.html?dir=desc&manufacturer=65&mode=grid

Normal price 458 euro
I got it for 366 euro
:cool:

And now i need to sell my saitek x45 + saitek throttle quad
and my Cougar.

I hope you get the gear soon.I have been waiting for 2 weeks for the items to be shipped :( Emailed CH Products but they havent answered yet.

[kendo65]

I hope you get the gear soon.I have been waiting for 2 weeks for the items to be shipped :( Emailed CH Products but they havent answered yet.

Not sure of your location, but i ordered the CH Combat Stick and Throttle from Amazon UK and it arrived within the week (free postage too)

[blampars]

I hope you get the gear soon.I have been waiting for 2 weeks for the items to be shipped :( Emailed CH Products but they havent answered yet.

CH Throttle and Pedals are out for delivery from my order with Amazon. Fighterstick from TD is still pending just like your stuff, roy. I don't know what the problem is, but frankly I'm thinking TD is full of bologna. Especially with the quickness that Amazon got my stuff shipped.

Thought about canceling my TD order and getting it elsewhere, but I hear that they can't seem to do that correctly either.
After losing my cool with them via e-mail, they finally gave me a correct tracking number for the thrustmaster joystick i bought/shipped to my buddy. Why the correct one was different than the one in the e-mail they sent me I have no idea. Never shopping TD again :P

Here's hoping you get your shipping notification tomorrow. You've been waiting far too long. :evil:

[Royraiden]

CH Throttle and Pedals are out for delivery from my order with Amazon. Fighterstick from TD is still pending just like your stuff, roy. I don't know what the problem is, but frankly I'm thinking TD is full of bologna. Especially with the quickness that Amazon got my stuff shipped.

Thought about canceling my TD order and getting it elsewhere, but I hear that they can't seem to do that correctly either.
After losing my cool with them via e-mail, they finally gave me a correct tracking number for the thrustmaster joystick i bought/shipped to my buddy. Why the correct one was different than the one in the e-mail they sent me I have no idea. Never shopping TD again :P

Here's hoping you get your shipping notification tomorrow. You've been waiting far too long. :evil:

I contacted CH and they dont know why is it taking so long either.Maybe they are not in stock.Anyways they should notify me what exactly is happening.Im really upset.:evil:

Edit*Went to check the status of my orders, and after 2 weeks one of them got canceled.Im so freaking pissed!!

[ghodan]

Who says CH Products is the factor for the slow delivery?
Tigerdirect is not even on the official "where to buy" list / Distributors list.

I will keep you guys updated on the delivery speed of my CH Products order at Simware (I could not go to the shop itself. Closed on Saturday, and on week days i work. So i did a post delivery order)

[Royraiden]

Who says CH Products is the factor for the slow delivery?
Tigerdirect is not even on the official "where to buy" list / Distributors list.

I will keep you guys updated on the delivery speed of my CH Products order at Simware (I could not go to the shop itself. Closed on Saturday, and on week days i work. So i did a post delivery order)

I know it is not CH fault, but Tigerdirect's.Ill try to cancel the other order and buy from an official dealer.

[blampars]

I know it is not CH fault, but Tigerdirect's.Ill try to cancel the other order and buy from an official dealer.

Sorry about your canceled order, that totally sucks! I think I'll give them a call tomorrow and *try* to cancel my order with them. I'll just get my stick from CH themselves and be done with 3rd party retailers (unless Amazon has them in stock again, but they only get a few at a time and they go quick!).

I'd hate to rub it in your face Roy, but the throttle and pedals are damn nice. You're going to like them when you finally get them. I don't know how people were complaining about the pedals being too narrow, they seem perfectly fine to me. It's not like my legs are smashed together trying to use them heh. I hope they don't slide on my carpet while in the heat of combat. The casual flight around an airfield I had, they worked fine. The rubber stoppers in the bottom seem better suited for a hard surface though.

Now I have the daunting task of trying to learn CH Control Manager. Poking around with it on my own for over an hour and still pretty much clueless. Going to have to find that Control Manager for Dummies PDF I looked at a few days ago....

Probably shouldn't even say these words for fear of starting some crazy war, but Track IR is leaps and bounds better than the FacetrackNoIR I was using with my webcam. Holy moly!

[Royraiden]

Well guess what, I got a phone call while I was at college from UPS.So I got the Combatstick at home!!!! :D Called tiger about the other order that got cancelled, they told me that they wont seel those items anymore.So Im gonna buy them from another site.Maybe Amazon, dont know yet.Lets unbox!!!

Edit**Holy sh)^& this thing is huge!!!!

[blampars]

Edit**Holy sh)^& this thing is huge!!!!

LMAO. I can only imagine based off the size of my throttle, which is also pretty damn big.

So I take it you got no notification or tracking number from TD about your combat stick being shipped???

[Royraiden]

LMAO. I can only imagine based off the size of my throttle, which is also pretty damn big.

So I take it you got no notification or tracking number from TD about your combat stick being shipped???

None whatsoever, and they havent charged me yet, I hope they dont LOL.Im just staring at this thing.It does seem like its built like a tank even though it is not heavy at all.

[blampars]

Absolutely lame on no tracking notification. Maybe I'm strange but I love watching my package move across the country and land at my doorstep haha.

Fingers crossed on not getting charged. For the time you waited and the extra grief, they'd better not charge you :P

[Royraiden]

Absolutely lame on no tracking notification. Maybe I'm strange but I love watching my package move across the country and land at my doorstep haha.

Fingers crossed on not getting charged. For the time you waited and the extra grief, they'd better not charge you :P

I doubt it is going to happen but no one knows :D.How was your experience with Amazon?And how much was the shipping?

[blampars]

Amazon experience was very good. Took them 2 days to get it shipped with tracking numbers available. Ordered everything on thursday and got it this afternoon. No complaints.

Orders over $25.00 ship free with their super saver shipping method. Their speedier shipping is relatively low cost if you opt to go that route.
The rudder pedals came with some free simulator software that I've yet to take a look at. An added bonus I guess.

I'd personally recommend trying to get the rest of your stuff through them, the pedals and the throttle were both around $95, fyi.

[Royraiden]

Amazon experience was very good. Took them 2 days to get it shipped with tracking numbers available. Ordered everything on thursday and got it this afternoon. No complaints.

Orders over $25.00 ship free with their super saver shipping method. Their speedier shipping is relatively low cost if you opt to go that route.
The rudder pedals came with some free simulator software that I've yet to take a look at. An added bonus I guess.

I'd personally recommend trying to get the rest of your stuff through them, the pedals and the throttle were both around $95, fyi.

Nice lol,I had paid $260 for both items on Tiger.

[blampars]

whew damn, that's a bit much I think.

Throttle's currently going for $96..
http://www.amazon.com/CH-Products-Throttle-Switches-3-Buttons/dp/B00006B84Z/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297814897&sr=8-1

Pedals are going for $95 and comes with that sim software.
http://www.amazon.com/Pedals-Software-Bundle-Flights-Wellington/dp/B00405SM5G/ref=sr_1_cc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297814956&sr=1-1-catcorr

[Royraiden]

Ill check them out in a bit, Ill order them tonight though so thanks.

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

Blampers,glad you got your stuff,and you Roy your stick,i agree the sticks are big and \\blampers, i agree about the ch control software,if you find help please post it |:).glad you like the pedals,im toying betweem saitek combat and the ch,using a thrustmaster hostas x throttle for thw rudder and stuff cus the x52 pro throttle dont have a rocker swith for rudder,do the pedlas centre themselves and if not how do you know your rudder is centred without looking in the dial in cockpit
thanks, and both of you enjoy:)

[ghodan]

All rudder pedals centre themselfs if you dont put pressure on them.
Rudder pedals give you more controle then the rocker switch on the Saitek X45.

[kendo65]

...

Now I have the daunting task of trying to learn CH Control Manager. Poking around with it on my own for over an hour and still pretty much clueless. Going to have to find that Control Manager for Dummies PDF I looked at a few days ago....

...

+1 on that. Got a Combat stick and Pro throttle about a week ago. I've calibrated the controllers using Control Manager and saved a profile - but it's hard to get a handle on the other features - and with the possibility of using modes and writing scripts things can get out of hand pretty quickly.

Unfortunately it's a little difficult to grasp some of the concepts from the provided help. Need to go back to the Dummies pdf again myself.

Should be very powerful and configurable once I've mastered it though!

[ElAurens]

After over 8 years with CH gear I have never figured out the control software for it. A classic example of software by programmers for programmers.

Fortunately every thing I need for the sim can be configured in the game itself.

Still the CH hardware is the best out there. Bullet proof.

[blampars]

blampers, i agree about the ch control software,if you find help please post it |:).glad you like the pedals,im toying betweem saitek combat and the ch,using a thrustmaster hostas x throttle for thw rudder and stuff cus the x52 pro throttle dont have a rocker swith for rudder,do the pedlas centre themselves and if not how do you know your rudder is centred without looking in the dial in cockpit
thanks, and both of you enjoy:)

The rudders center themselves when you dont put pressure on one of them, plus there is a type of 'slot' feel when they are centered. the thing i'm noticing is i'm always slightly hitting the toe brakes on them (the rocking part of the pedal), but that's probably due to how I'm sitting at my desk.

+1 on that. Got a Combat stick and Pro throttle about a week ago. I've calibrated the controllers using Control Manager and saved a profile - but it's hard to get a handle on the other features - and with the possibility of using modes and writing scripts things can get out of hand pretty quickly.

Unfortunately it's a little difficult to grasp some of the concepts from the provided help. Need to go back to the Dummies pdf again myself.

Should be very powerful and configurable once I've mastered it though!

I've gotten as far as you have with calibrating the controllers and saving that profile, or map. My problem comes when I assign, say, F and V for flaps up and flaps down with IL2. Save the profile, download it to my controler(s) and launch the game, those commands don't work. The other thing that confuses me is the direct mode, mapped mode buttons in the software. After I download my profile to the devices I can't seem to go back and edit them further as the buttons are all greyed out. I have to log out of windows and back in to get the software to recognize my button presses on the controllers again. I'm normally a pretty tech/software savvy guy but this software has me down on my knees right now lmao.
We're not even going to get into scripting at this point, although I've seen some nice examples of how it can be implemented. Right now I just want to get basic functionality out of my HOTAS so I can get used to it all.

After over 8 years with CH gear I have never figured out the control software for it. A classic example of software by programmers for programmers.

Fortunately every thing I need for the sim can be configured in the game itself.

Still the CH hardware is the best out there. Bullet proof.

I'm loving the feel of the hardware, but like you said that software is something else! Hopefully I can figure out how to get all my basic commands mapped at some point, as I'm having fits with it right now (see above).

[No601_Merlin]

I too struggled with that programming system, contacted CH tech support and they sent me a profile that I use. Everyone has a certain way of using the system.

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

lets start a CH programming club:)

[blampars]

we should, because i'm on day 2 and I haven't made a single bit of progress lmao. wow. :(

I'm uninstalling and reinstalling the software now, I don't know why but maybe it'll help. I'm getting no action from controllers inside IL2 now even though everything "works" in ch control manager.

i've never felt so computer stupid in my life haha

Update: When configuring for IL2, don't join all the controllers to act as one. I now have controls and buttons working. Now for mapping. :D

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

we should, because i'm on day 2 and I haven't made a single bit of progress lmao. wow. :(

I'm uninstalling and reinstalling the software now, I don't know why but maybe it'll help. I'm getting no action from controllers inside IL2 now even though everything "works" in ch control manager.

i've never felt so computer stupid in my life haha

Update: When configuring for IL2, don't join all the controllers to act as one. I now have controls and buttons working. Now for mapping. :D

yes i made that mistake too:)

[Gribbers]

I remember playing IL2 with a keyboard for about 2 years!!!!! Completed the Campaign no problem, but online was tricky/impossible!!! :grin:

Bought the Cyborg Evo with force feedback in 2005 and haven't looked back since...although I do have an issue with the twist rudder when I'm on a Bf-109's tail and keep 'ruddering' left/right when I'm trying to engage. :mad:

But hopefully I'll get another 6 years service out of it.

[Royraiden]

I just cant believe how precise this joystick is,miles ahead from my previous joystick.I was concerned with the size of the stick but it actually fits my hand perfectly.The button layout is well thought out, I can reach any button with ease.I like the long throw of it because it allows for fine adjustments.The tension is rather weak but I got used to it almost instantly.My only "complaint" so far is that the buttons dont go down too much when pressed,I thinks that design allows for durability but I would have liked a little more movement from them, specially the trigger.Downloaded the CH manager but apart from calibrating, I havent used it for anything else.I knew I was not going to be dissapointed by CH , so Im still waiting for my CH Pedals and Throttle Quadrant, should be here by monday.Judging by my first impressions on the Combatstick, I know Im going to love the rest of the gear.:grin:

[blampars]

I just cant believe how precise this joystick is,miles ahead from my previous joystick.I was concerned with the size of the stick but it actually fits my hand perfectly.The button layout is well thought out, I can reach any button with ease.I like the long throw of it because it allows for fine adjustments.The tension is rather weak but I got used to it almost instantly.My only "complaint" so far is that the buttons dont go down too much when pressed,I thinks that design allows for durability but I would have liked a little more movement from them, specially the trigger.Downloaded the CH manager but apart from calibrating, I havent used it for anything else.I knew I was not going to be dissapointed by CH , so Im still waiting for my CH Pedals and Throttle Quadrant, should be here by monday.Judging by my first impressions on the Combatstick, I know Im going to love the rest of the gear.:grin:

That's great to hear! I'm of course still waiting for my fighterstick heh. Flying with the pro throttle + pedals has greatly improved my whole experience by leaps and bounds. I'm shooting down more fighters than I ever have.

I'm going to have to jump into the control manager at some point, as after flying all today, I can see the need for multiple modes. Takeoff/landing, Combat, Cruising could all have their own settings on the same button = bliss.

If and when you jump into CH CM, I'd be interested to hear how you did. I'll probably mess with it over the weekend, but I'm almost certain it'll be like rocket science.

[Royraiden]

That's great to hear! I'm of course still waiting for my fighterstick heh. Flying with the pro throttle + pedals has greatly improved my whole experience by leaps and bounds. I'm shooting down more fighters than I ever have.

I'm going to have to jump into the control manager at some point, as after flying all today, I can see the need for multiple modes. Takeoff/landing, Combat, Cruising could all have their own settings on the same button = bliss.

If and when you jump into CH CM, I'd be interested to hear how you did. I'll probably mess with it over the weekend, but I'm almost certain it'll be like rocket science.

Ill try to fiddle with it tonight.Just in case you dont know , there is a lot of info on the official CH Forum, called the CH Hangar.Be sure to check it out if you need help.

[blampars]

Ill try to fiddle with it tonight.Just in case you dont know , there is a lot of info on the official CH Forum, called the CH Hangar.Be sure to check it out if you need help.

Yeah, I've been slowly sifting through all of it. There is a LOT!

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

good you got your stick Roy,yes i agree quality sticks.

[blampars]

Do any of you know any other places to get IL2 maps for the ch hotas (fighterstick, pro throttle, pro pedals)? I've downloaded all the il2 maps from ch-hangar and am not impressed yet. Not to mention most of them are quite old now, and I haven't found any "IL-2 1946" maps

Main reason I'm looking for a "good" one is to have a nice template to teach myself how to create a fully featured/functional setup for my new controlers without having to completely blunder through it all :)

Edit: Finally found a decent command file that I made some minor alterations to. Working on my mapping now which might take a while. if anyone is interested in having a look just send me a PM...

[ghodan]

Its now the 3rd working day after my online order of a full CH setup at simware.
The only action so far was a automatic reply after the order.
Then 2 working days nothing.
And the end of working day 2 i send i email asking if everything is ok with my order and what the status is of the stock.
The first half part of the 3rd working day is now over and still got no reply
:(

[Royraiden]

Its now the 3rd working day after my online order of a full CH setup at simware.
The only action so far was a automatic reply after the order.
Then 2 working days nothing.
And the end of working day 2 i send i email asking if everything is ok with my order and what the status is of the stock.
The first half part of the 3rd working day is now over and still got no reply
:(

Thats odd.I ordered the rest of my gear from MarvGolden, one of the official CH Products dealers,and my order got shipped the day after purchase.

[Royraiden]

Here some pics for comparison.
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/royraiden/IMG_6315.jpg
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/royraiden/IMG_6317.jpg

And just the Combatstick
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/royraiden/IMG_6301.jpg
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac258/royraiden/IMG_6297.jpg

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

nice pics Roy

[ghodan]

Ooh man its nice.
By the way why did you choose the combat stick and not the fighter stick?

I have to wait until probably next weekend until my CH gear arrives.
Its going to be a long long week.

[Royraiden]

Ooh man its nice.
By the way why did you choose the combat stick and not the fighter stick?

I have to wait until probably next weekend until my CH gear arrives.
Its going to be a long long week.

The only difference between the two is more buttons/more functionality.The amount of buttons on the Combatstick is enough for me.Plus, I find it odd to have a hatswitch on the left side of the stick,where the thumb rests.The Combatstick has a big red button there ,which is great for firing cannons.My previous stick had a similar button there and it served the same function.So for me it looks better and cost less.Its a matter of opinion to be honest.By the way, thanks Snake.

I made a short video with both sticks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UgrKPETcuM

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

hows it going Roy?

[Royraiden]

hows it going Roy?

I have only tested the stick with Wings of Prey,had a lot of fun though.I find myself forgetting about the dogfight and concentrating in just flying.Still waiting for the throttle quadrant and pedals.

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

I have only tested the stick with Wings of Prey,had a lot of fun though.I find myself forgetting about the dogfight and concentrating in just flying.Still waiting for the throttle quadrant and pedals.

lol i know what you mean re the just wanting to fly and get used to stick and some one comes and shoots you :).ive ordered the CH rudders now,out of stock early next week, throtlle next lol.let us know when you get your stuff.

[blampars]

Well I finally got my fighterstick today. Had originally ordered it on the 9th of feb, so it took waaay more time than I'm used to waiting.
I now have my full CH Hotas setup.

I only had an hour to mess around with the stick, but I'm happy with it so far. The movement is something that I'm going to have to get used to as far as the x/y axis being independent of each other compared to your "traditional" stick.
The other thing is it's huuuuge. My hand can't sit on the joystick hand rest at the bottom and my thumb reach to the top buttons without lifting my hand up slightly. Not TOO much of a problem considering what those keys are mapped to currently.

The response from the stick in IL2 compared to my old stick brings on a whole new level as far as flying goes. Where my old stick would make my plane bank/dive/climb at the slightest movement, this stick needs a bit more movement to get the same effect. After joy riding around getting a feel for the new stick, I completely smashed my landing gear and skidded to a halt on the runway when landing.

I guess I need more flight time with the new stick :-P

[JAMF]

Dunno if this has been posted in this thread, but if still looking for more info on programmable HOTAS options:

http://www.simhq.com/_technology2/technology_094a.html

[Royraiden]

Well I finally got my fighterstick today. Had originally ordered it on the 9th of feb, so it took waaay more time than I'm used to waiting.
I now have my full CH Hotas setup.

I only had an hour to mess around with the stick, but I'm happy with it so far. The movement is something that I'm going to have to get used to as far as the x/y axis being independent of each other compared to your "traditional" stick.
The other thing is it's huuuuge. My hand can't sit on the joystick hand rest at the bottom and my thumb reach to the top buttons without lifting my hand up slightly. Not TOO much of a problem considering what those keys are mapped to currently.

The response from the stick in IL2 compared to my old stick brings on a whole new level as far as flying goes. Where my old stick would make my plane bank/dive/climb at the slightest movement, this stick needs a bit more movement to get the same effect. After joy riding around getting a feel for the new stick, I completely smashed my landing gear and skidded to a halt on the runway when landing.

I guess I need more flight time with the new stick :-P

Nice to know that you like it.I got used to it right away,apart from the buttons movement,this stick is perfect for me.Just called UPS the rest of my gear should be here tomorrow.

[Royraiden]

Dunno if this has been posted in this thread, but if still looking for more info on programmable HOTAS options:

http://www.simhq.com/_technology2/technology_094a.html

Good read.

[ghodan]

I still dont have my CH stuff.
I have to wait about 1 more week.
This friday it will be 2 full weeks ago that i ordered the CH setup. :(

[Royraiden]

I still dont have my CH stuff.
I have to wait about 1 more week.
This friday it will be 2 full weeks ago that i ordered the CH setup. :(

Do you have at least a tracking number?

[ghodan]

What tracking nr?
It has not even been send yet! hahahahaha

It took them 1 week to respond to my order.
If i did not call to chase them maybe longer.
Then it took them 3 days to figure out what the correct amount of payment should be.
And now one of the CH products is not on stock (or all the CH stuff i ordered? They did not give stock info at all) and is delaying the order to be send.

[Royraiden]

Wow,bad deal then.I bought my stuff from Marvgolden from the US and they were a pleasure to deal with.I sent an email regarding the shipping method and 5 mins later one of their employees actually called me to explain how it would be shipped and to clarify some stuff for me.Great customer service.

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

Well I finally got my fighterstick today. Had originally ordered it on the 9th of feb, so it took waaay more time than I'm used to waiting.
I now have my full CH Hotas setup.

I only had an hour to mess around with the stick, but I'm happy with it so far. The movement is something that I'm going to have to get used to as far as the x/y axis being independent of each other compared to your "traditional" stick.
The other thing is it's huuuuge. My hand can't sit on the joystick hand rest at the bottom and my thumb reach to the top buttons without lifting my hand up slightly. Not TOO much of a problem considering what those keys are mapped to currently.

The response from the stick in IL2 compared to my old stick brings on a whole new level as far as flying goes. Where my old stick would make my plane bank/dive/climb at the slightest movement, this stick needs a bit more movement to get the same effect. After joy riding around getting a feel for the new stick, I completely smashed my landing gear and skidded to a halt on the runway when landing.

I guess I need more flight time with the new stick :-P

hi Blampars,glad your enjoying your gear,can you explain about how the trottle moves as in CH Pro Throttle is the only throttle that slides in a horizontal plane instead of rotating about an axis. so does it push/slide forward rather than move in an arc like the x52? thanks

[blampars]

Yeah, it slides forward and backward and doesn't arc. It's flat.
It's got a nice medium-light resistance to it when you move it. I like it, it feels good to me. But I have never had a throttle before this one so I can't speak of the comparison between it and the x-52 throttle exactly.

If you're coming from x52, it might be quite odd sensation compared to an arcing throttle but besides personal preference I dont see it being an issue in usability/functionality.

-b

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

Yeah, it slides forward and backward and doesn't arc. It's flat.
It's got a nice medium-light resistance to it when you move it. I like it, it feels good to me. But I have never had a throttle before this one so I can't speak of the comparison between it and the x-52 throttle exactly.

If you're coming from x52, it might be quite odd sensation compared to an arcing throttle but besides personal preference I dont see it being an issue in usability/functionality.

-b

thanks Blampers, thanks for confirming,no it wont be a problem im sure infact im looking forward to this different movent which i feel i will prefer. thanks again

[Royraiden]

Just got the rest of my gear so Im pretty excited!Im gonna test them and then share my impressions.:grin:

[blampars]

Just got the rest of my gear so Im pretty excited!Im gonna test them and then share my impressions.:grin:

saweeeet! have fun :)

[Royraiden]

The quadrant and pedals are working great I really like them,but,quite oddly the buttons on the joystick are not recognized in-game.So I cant map the trigger and the other buttons.I need some help, I need to shoot at some airplanes!!

[ghodan]

Youtube gear movie update!
Youtube gear movie update!
Youtube gear movie update!
:grin:

[blampars]

The quadrant and pedals are working great I really like them,but,quite oddly the buttons on the joystick are not recognized in-game.So I cant map the trigger and the other buttons.I need some help, I need to shoot at some airplanes!!

Roy, create a new map with Control Manager, make sure all devices have a device number. Use the control wizard button if you want, just make sure you dont link all your devices together as 1 device like i did. You wan't them to be seperate devices. Set your axis too with the drop down below the dx device menu.
Combatstick tab, mode 1, dx device drop down menu, CM Device 1.
Pro Pedals tab, mode 1, dx device drop down menu, CM Device 2.
Throttle tab, Mode 1, dx device drop down menu, CM Device 3.

Make sure all your buttons are checked with DX Mode by clicking the button on the controller or clicking the button on the picture of your device.

Save the map as whatever you want. Maybe DX_Control.map
Click the little download map button (8 button from the left) to download your dx control map to your controllers.

All your controllers and buttons on them should be recognized by the game at this point.. You should be able to assign a function in game to a button on your controller.

Try it out and get back to us. If you need more help PM me or something and we'll go from there.

To actually MAP your buttons to specific functions and use the multiple modes available, you're going to need to make a command file for the game you're playing. We can get into that later (its not that hard once you know how).

Youtube gear movie update!
Youtube gear movie update!
Youtube gear movie update!
:grin:

LMAO

[Royraiden]

Youtube gear movie update!
Youtube gear movie update!
Youtube gear movie update!
:grin:
Lol is that for me??
Roy, create a new map with Control Manager, make sure all devices have a device number. Use the control wizard button if you want, just make sure you dont link all your devices together as 1 device like i did. You wan't them to be seperate devices. Set your axis too with the drop down below the dx device menu.
Combatstick tab, mode 1, dx device drop down menu, CM Device 1.
Pro Pedals tab, mode 1, dx device drop down menu, CM Device 2.
Throttle tab, Mode 1, dx device drop down menu, CM Device 3.

Make sure all your buttons are checked with DX Mode by clicking the button on the controller or clicking the button on the picture of your device.

Save the map as whatever you want. Maybe DX_Control.map
Click the little download map button (8 button from the left) to download your dx control map to your controllers.

All your controllers and buttons on them should be recognized by the game at this point.. You should be able to assign a function in game to a button on your controller.

Try it out and get back to us. If you need more help PM me or something and we'll go from there.

To actually MAP your buttons to specific functions and use the multiple modes available, you're going to need to make a command file for the game you're playing. We can get into that later (its not that hard once you know how).



LMAO
Gonna try that, I didnt quite understand everything you said but Ill give it a shot.

[blampars]

Once you take a look at the program and try to follow what I said you should be able to figure it out.
kinda brief and what not but I wanted to post before I left for work so I had to make it somewhat quick.

Hopefully it works for ya, lemme know.

[Royraiden]

Once you take a look at the program and try to follow what I said you should be able to figure it out.
kinda brief and what not but I wanted to post before I left for work so I had to make it somewhat quick.

Hopefully it works for ya, lemme know.

Thanks for the help.I just woke up so I need to get out of this zombie mode first.I ll let you know.

[ghodan]

Lol is that for me??
.

Yes it is :cool:

[Royraiden]

Once you take a look at the program and try to follow what I said you should be able to figure it out.
kinda brief and what not but I wanted to post before I left for work so I had to make it somewhat quick.

Hopefully it works for ya, lemme know.
It worked you saved my life.
Yes it is :cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5lxR-vy7Dg

[blampars]

It worked you saved my life.


good to hear :-)

[Sokol1]

http://a.imageshack.us/img718/20/spit.jpg
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,272318.0.html
http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/spitsim-spitfire-cockpit-simulator-product-review.html

Sokol1

[Royraiden]

http://a.imageshack.us/img718/20/spit.jpg
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,272318.0.html
http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/spitsim-spitfire-cockpit-simulator-product-review.html

Sokol1

Thats just too much Sokol,would be great for the RAF fans out there though.