Crossworlds - Questions about skills

[Renevent]

These are all in regards to the new arena campaign in Crossworlds:

1. Does the skill that gives +% of gold after victory work in this campaign? What about Nigh time operations? It looks like the arena is underground but not sure if there's any bonus applied.

2. Items that gran +% to gold and/or exp...do they work in this campaign?

Thanks!

[DGDobrev]

1. It works, I have tired it. Night operations works too, but you have to wait till it's night. Problem is, if you get to rely on trophies skill for extra gold, something is wrong, as the extra gold isn't all that much.
2. Most definitely. Learning level 3 + hand of Necropolis will get you to level 62 or more :)

[Renevent]

Not sure I understand...but the gold received after an arena win is all you get...and trophies (3/3) gives +300% gold. That's a huge increase. Maybe I'm not sure how to play the arena that well though but I am short for gold by a huge margin that I can't hire half the troops I want for by the 4th or 5th round.

And how sure are you it works? I tried using saves to kill a boss with and without Trophies and couldn't really tell a difference...though the amount of gold you get after a win seems to vary even by itself.

[DGDobrev]

The money you receive from killing the boss and from bounty heroes are one thing, the fixed amount of money you receive by the NPC's for such a win is something completely different. For example, if the boss is supposed to give you 900 gold for killing it, it will give you 990 gold with trophies level 1. If a bounty or let's say, an arena win is worth 40k, this is exactly the amount you're going to get - regardless of the Trophies skill level.

Maybe this is why you feel the money you get isn't all that much.

[Renevent]

Ah I see...so the 40K I was getting wasn't given for the battle, rather it was a quest reward.

Appreciate the help, thanks :grin:

[Zechnophobe]

The money you receive from killing the boss and from bounty heroes are one thing, the fixed amount of money you receive by the NPC's for such a win is something completely different. For example, if the boss is supposed to give you 900 gold for killing it, it will give you 990 gold with trophies level 1. If a bounty or let's say, an arena win is worth 40k, this is exactly the amount you're going to get - regardless of the Trophies skill level.

Maybe this is why you feel the money you get isn't all that much.

I think you may want to recheck your numbers DG! The Trophies skill is reworked to give a lot more gold. While it doesn't net you that much in the arena, it gives HUGE amounts of loot with the bounty hunter quests, because those battles themselves generate a ridiculous amount of gold, I'm not even sure why. I had trophies 3 and was getting hundreds of thousands of gold from just the battle (later ones at least) before the award money was even given.

[Fatt_Shade]

Hi all :-)
I cant find tread considering this : does any1 else find Neatness skill to be useless cause it strenghten skills of only 1 unit, Mechanic ?????
Might class skills are usefull for all undead-Dark commande, archers-Quick draw,
Mind class skills all neutrals-Voice of dragon, Persuasion-moral for rases
Magic class skills if ply as mage you get Archmage-lower leadership for all mage units.
So to me neatness skill us completly useless. I dont play for no-loss, or 7 day game end, just for fun of it.
But spending this much runes for 10, 15, 20 % upgrade of only 1 unit is realy useless.
Neatness skill should upgrade all unit sumoning skills : Orc tracker, Royal griffin etc . . . for same amount as for Mechanics . . . just my thought. Then it would be meaningfull to spend runes on it, and it would be so much usefull.
Any coments pls ?

[travelingoz]

The neatness skill allows you to destroy artifacts producing crystals and runes from them. Therefore it's a very important skill for most mages. At lvl 2 and 3 of neatness there's a chance you will get might/mind/ magic runes from destroying lvl4-5 artifacts so the skill is also useful for other classes as you generally have more gold than you need in the later stages of the game. :grin:

[Fatt_Shade]

I do get use of neatnes, but what i dont get why it strenghten only 1 unit ( out of like hundred diferent ) in all game !
Mechanic isnt only unit that have sumoning skills in game ( 15 at least have it ) so i think it unfair just for that, either neatnes buf up sumons of all sumoning units or not any of them. That is what i thought.
On neatnes usefullnes for mage i agree, but on +10,15,20 % for sumon droids repair droids i just think is stupid.

[travelingoz]

Well in AP it didn't buff any units at all....so consider this as an unexpected bonus to a skill that was valuable anyway! :rolleyes:

[onepiece]

I don't think it's that valuable since you have to destroy enough items just to recover the 16 mind runes and 2 magic runes for level 2 and 27 and 6 for level 3 respectively. And while most items aren't used, I think that it will be hard to destroy enough just to recover the investment.
At least now is more useful for a dwarf army.

[travelingoz]

Well the way to look at it is at least you have a chance of getting some runes invested back with this skill (i always seem to end up with stacks of green runes anyway).
If you invest in the mage Alchemy skill, there's no chance of getting anything back!

[Metathron]

If you invest in the mage Alchemy skill, there's no chance of getting anything back!

Except a profusion of spells. :-P

[Fatt_Shade]

Again i think you ppl dont get my point. Would any1 use dark commander if it gives +atack/initative for sekeltons (no other undead unit), or quick draw if it poweres up only elves (not any other archer unit).
Just seems unfair, either make new neatnes skill same for group of units ( any unit that can summon other units ), or dont change it at all.
This way game developers only made it more easy for no-loss game with invincible droid army. And no other reason.

[onepiece]

@Fatt Shade; I get the point but a skill like that would disrupt greatly the game (although mage summon does it too). I think it could be changed but wouldn't it be too similar too mage summoner skill since it also affects units called by other units?

Maybe it could affect units with more "mechanical" traits? (droids, engineers, catapults, cannoneers, or even knights and paladins since they have a metal armor? (units who need a lot of heavy equipment maybe?))

[Fatt_Shade]

@ onepiece Ok i agree, it would be change in game if there is something other then AI to fight against. With AI you summon and comp kills youre summons, if there was PvP games you would kill enemy summoning units first.
If neatness was bufed up for all summoning units i guess it would make no-loss game less tedious, cause i saw ppl playing 100+ round battles.
If they make something like HoMM hot seat then there changes will be needed, but now against comp, for whitch many ppl say it is doable on imposible with some ridiculus rules (here i mean on `impy` and his chalanges :-) Change in neatness will only make battles in witch ppl spend rounds to only get mana regen/round obsolete.
No-loss game is doable that we all know now, but no-loss with <hour per battle would be nice :-)

[ckdamascus]

@ onepiece Ok i agree, it would be change in game if there is something other then AI to fight against. With AI you summon and comp kills youre summons, if there was PvP games you would kill enemy summoning units first.
If neatness was bufed up for all summoning units i guess it would make no-loss game less tedious, cause i saw ppl playing 100+ round battles.
If they make something like HoMM hot seat then there changes will be needed, but now against comp, for whitch many ppl say it is doable on imposible with some ridiculus rules (here i mean on `impy` and his chalanges :-) Change in neatness will only make battles in witch ppl spend rounds to only get mana regen/round obsolete.
No-loss game is doable that we all know now, but no-loss with <hour per battle would be nice :-)

I hope you are joking. No-Loss does not mean slow and tedious. Slow and tedious just means you don't have a solid and efficient build.

No-Loss can be extremely fast, easy, and fun with the proper army make up and preparation.

If you want the fastest, easiest, No-Loss, Impossible game, look into the Warrior class.

After each battle, Bloodthirst and enough maximum Rage ensures you can cast Mana Accelerator in round 1, so you dont' even have to wait for the mana regeneration between battles.

I killed Ktahu in 6 rounds, Impossible, No Loss, only level 48.

Baal went down in 15. If I was higher level, maybe even sooner. Unicornxp took him out in 5 rounds.

Again, he did it with no-loss, and Impossible.

[atlatea]

I agree, most people do not want their battle to become so long, remember that we have many other things to do in life, not only playing king's bounty.

1 hour or more per battle is just too ridiculous, at least for me.

All classes can do fastest game, no loss. But againts bosses, warrior and paladin have slight advantage (leadership and attack rules againts bosses), those two usually take down bosses in 10 to 15 rounds with full troops (even the hard one like k'tahu and baal).

[ckdamascus]

I agree, most people do not want their battle to become so long, remember that we have many other things to do in life, not only playing king's bounty.

1 hour or more per battle is just too ridiculous, at least for me.

All classes can do fastest game, no loss. But againts bosses, warrior and paladin have slight advantage (leadership and attack rules againts bosses), those two usually take down bosses in 10 to 15 rounds with full troops (even the hard one like k'tahu and baal).

Well, real time or game time? If you mean real time, most mages end up extending the battle artificially to ensure they can restore their mana. A warrior can just skip that step.

Unless they are doing something like the emerald dragon trick, but that is a special build. A warrior can nearly steam roll anything, and just be ready to hit a minor battle again easily.

Against bosses, I think mages have a severe disadvantage though. Unless they are doing something like the solo black knight combo with splinter. :(

I think against the gremlin, I end up taking like 25+ rounds, maybe 30? Mostly because I end up using divine armor + stone skin just to physically hit the gremlin. I eventually run out of dual cast, so I have to do some befangled magic spring combo in there and calm rage once in a while too. I also use summons to try to do extra damage too, and make sure they force retaliations against the other summons, not my main damager. It is really tedious and not fun.

It really drags it out. Then I have to also care for the rest of the units if they do a mass attack. Sometimes it is difficult to halt the enemy from a mass attack.

If the answer is to use ranged units, well ranged units take a lot from the mass attack and don't deal enough damage without all the right items and the necessarily amounts of leadership. Paladin and Warrior classes have the leadership needed.

When I beat Ktahu with the warrior, I couldn't easily figure out a way to stop him from his second mass attack, except... to kill him before he can do it. :)

I don't have that option with the mage.

I couldn't figure out how to beat Ktahu with a full army with a mage. If the answer is a solo stack... that automatically makes it tedious unless we are talking about black knights. And even that is annoying since EvilN sucks up a turn.

Soloing driller with the mage and trolls was NOT fun at all. :( I think it took me 60 rounds one time (tried to do it early to get a powerful shooter army... that didn't work well against other bosses due to low leadership anyways :( ).

[atlatea]

Well, i mean game time haha.

As for mage, this is my least played class, probably i've only played it 2 if not 3 times (i forgot about it). To me, it seems the most boring class of the 3.

Anyway, most people said warior is the best. Though paladin is the easiest if you do virtual no loss. But i guess there is few or several things that mage outshine those 2, from my experience mage always has easiest time againts dragons, just throw mass astral damage spell (now we have black hole), and they're done. And if you're going for heavy int and mana build and destruction spells type, it can finish most battle as quick as the other two (if not quciker) without much thinking like the other two, but yeah, you must wait for your mana to regen. Though it suffer in case of boss fight.

K'tahu is soloable with mage without black knight, i never tried it myself, but my younger brother solo him with red dragons (of course with heart of dragons + drakonix) but he said it's better with green dragons (as it can regen your mana), and i think he has a scale set or some phys. resistance item, the dual cast play a major role here (as you can buff your dragons quickly).

[onepiece]

Is just that for people it is too tedious to just think of the "perfect" build for them and try for no-loss, since it also requires a lot of thinking and being very careful and one mistake = reload.

Most of us are busy (haven't been able to play a thing for weeks now) so no-loss is just too much time to invest in it (I go for the old "heavy losses? no problem bro!" strategy XD; well not really).

Of course is very possible but sometimes there are not that many options that haven't been used before and not everybody wants to play with the strategy of someone else (and creating a very good one yourself for no loss is quite the invest in terms of time) so people prefer to just enjoy the game than to for the "hardcore" playthrough

That said it's still a very special feeling when you complete no-loss on impossible with a "perfect" build of your own (got some ideas I'm gonna try when I finish the loads of "real life" (as in no King bounty being played) by mid-December.

P.S: Hope that by that time there's gonna be an awesome new scenario to play created with the editor or this would be one of the most waited-no useful editors in a long time.

[atlatea]

Well, we off topic again.

Yeah i agree, i don't do no loss game anymore, as i've recently graduated from college and begin to work, more busy days ahead.

One thing i had about having casualties/loss is restocking, i hate the game time spent to go back to restrock, yeah for me finishing the game fast is more important than no casualties.

Well, casualties never decrease your final score anyway, even if you have losses/casualties of trilion, your score will never decrease. But game time matters.

That being said, no loss /casualties game means low variety of troops choice. Well, i try to minimize the loss by using paladin class with resurection, that one allow me to have no loss in the end (dead unit are resurected 100%).

As for editor, if it weren't for the bugs (editor is very buggy), i'd have succesfuly create few more islands designed for high lv (lv 45 or more, suggested lv is 55) with its own mod, this islands are created to be unlocked after you got all races's continent map, the purpose is obvious, you can have nice hard battles using your favourite armies. Enemy minimum hero lv is 55, with the strongest one having higher stat than caretaker and armies more than scrounger, most of them love to do AoE spell, so expect casualties, unless you manage to win using single black knight, but then again some lands are modified to have undead army suffer triple damage from non undead (expect your black knight to be blown to bits). This island is also created to block overpowered strategy, eviln spell effect is also modified, at first i'm trying to reverse its effect, but i've changed my mind. However it seems that you still can manage using single black dragon (of course with casualties), but i don't know for sure. This island also provides all troops type with horde amount, most item set and all composite items, several more quests, new items (i'm trying to create them, they can be acquired through quests) and about 20 ancient knowledge scroll.

I've also trying to create super mod for this island, that is a boss mod, yeah i want to create my own superboss that is more powerful than the other bosses, even baal, however it seems near impossible to achieve, i'm also having a hard time searching for the correct model. This boss play a very important role for this new islands, as most quests are tied to him, this new island gives new lore corcerning the great dragon and your pet.

The sad news are, it is incomplete due to bugs, this annoying bugs forced me to search for other alternatives (of course to no avail at the moment).

[BB Shockwave]

Some people say you have to keep Paladins/Inquisitors in your ranks for No-Loss, IMHO that is not necessary (but it helps). I have done no-loss (albeit on Normal) with a Warrior using an all-Lizardman army. Resurrection for level 1-4 units and time back for my Tirexes. In the Legend, I modded the (useless) Last hero spell into an "Animated Dead" spell, that resurrects Undead the same way as Resurrection - and did no-loss with an all-Undead army.

I like playing no-loss, it is challenging, and frankly, it has been a hobby of mine since like, forever. I even played games like HOMMIII and Blitzkrieg this way (granted I grudgingly accepted loosing infantry in the latter, and in HOMM could only do this with expert Earth magic and Resurrection). I feel like a good commander at times like this, who looks after his troops. :)

Fatt Shade has a point though - I wish the AI would take advantage of some spells. In The Legend, there weren't many enemies that used Phantom, but it was major fun simply dispelling their phantoms... The enemy should use that and Exorcism more often.

[atlatea]

Paladin is almost a must in impossible, not only because for its resurection ability, but they're currently the best tank (high phys resistance + def as high as black dragon). Then if you use paladin class, it's one of your most damaging unit (if you have lv 3 medal).

[BB Shockwave]

I know Impossible is really hard, I am talking about just Hard.

By the way, Knights have been really demoted now. I mean, they have less HP then Paladins, and their abilities and talents are much less usefull. They were really tough units in KB The Legend...

[atlatea]

Even in hard, i'll bring paladin, remember that it also depends on personal taste, my favourite are elf and human, so i'll almost always bring paladin, though it's not always appear on the battlefield.

Yeah knight in the legend was one of my main unit. I don't really notice any differences beetwen knight in TL and AP/CW, except perhaps they get nicer armor in AP/CW.

[Zechnophobe]

Paladin unit is pretty solid through the entire game on all difficulties. Not necessarily the best, but it is very consistent. It's second wind ability combined with certain other units is remarkable. I like it with Beholders, or Shamans, sometimes Dryads.