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WhYdOyOuThInKtHaThApPeNeD
02-10-2010, 03:18 AM
Do you get experience for killing enemy units that are summoned? Such as units summoned by a Friendly Gremlin. So if the Gremlin summons more enemies during battle do you get more XP for that battle than if you killed just what the battle started with? Also enemy thorns summoned by Royal and by each other, Demonologist, Druid, Dryad, etc.

Also, do you get more experience from a battle if you have fewer stacks of units. Meaning if I enter a battle with just 1 stack of Black Dragons and win do I get more XP than if I entered with the full set of 5 stacks?

Also does the power of your army ratio to the power of enemy army affect XP at all? Meaning if I've got a really weak army but defeat a powerful force do i get more, as opposed to if I've got a massive army and kill off just a few bears.

Does anyone know of any variable factors that affect the XP gained from battles?

TemjinGold
02-10-2010, 03:28 AM
I don't know for whether you get it for summons. I do know none of the other stuff in your post affects it.

DGDobrev
02-10-2010, 03:45 AM
You do get for summons. You get 0.017 XP per point of leadership, regardless of the stack, and regardless of your army composition. This is why I'm doing a test playthrough with max Black Knights to see if bosses can be exploited this way :)

As for the XP gained for battle, this is what modifies it:

Learning - up to 20%
Hand of Necropolis (gloves) - 10%, game can spawn 2 of them
Memoirs of the Marshal (artifact) - 5%
Shark Tooth (regalia) - 5%
Chain of Chance (belt, with gift bag) - 5%
Treasure Searcher medal - 7%

so in essence, you can get up to +62% XP per battle.

loreangelicus
02-11-2010, 11:57 PM
You do get for summons. You get 0.017 XP per point of leadership, regardless of the stack, and regardless of your army composition. This is why I'm doing a test playthrough with max Black Knights to see if bosses can be exploited this way :)


Are you sure about this? So in a suppression battle I could keep a friendly gremlin alive, pound away at the summoned enemies, and get more XP for this?

If so, this would be something to consider when suppressing items, especially level 4-5 ones.

DGDobrev
02-12-2010, 12:56 AM
I will have more data on that soon. I'm almost done with the playthrough where I'll leave a boss to summon more and more units and see whether they count. However, they should, because looking at the formulas and game files, it says 0.017 per point of leadership. There is no mention of stacks, summoned units and such.

Logically, that should include the summoned creatures as well.

loreangelicus
02-12-2010, 01:45 AM
Understood. I'm not sure if they changed it in KBAP, but in KBTL I'm pretty sure summoned units don't count towards XP. This is because in KBTL I've done multiple suppression battles on the Elven Crown (used it while killing elves at Ellinia) and while the gold varied, the XP is always the same.

But do continue with your analysis, they might have changed the XP formula in KBAP.

DGDobrev
02-12-2010, 02:25 AM
Hmmm, a mighty, mighty fail. I read a post were a guy said he finished the fight against the spider at turn 90 and got 77k XP for it on normal, so I assumed that summoned creatures count.

Well, they don't. Just fought the spider, summoned stacks went over 10k units (!!!), but the Black Knights' stood tall and managed to kill them. This is the first time I saw the Attack value go over 1000 (frenzy for the win!), but that was all there was to the fight. The end result was 11k XP with Ancient Knowledge scroll on. There is no way in hell this battle can provide 77k XP in one go.

EDIT: Oh, well... This can only be utilized for posterity. Damage inflicted in this battle went up to 3.5 mil. Now that was carnage.

KrazyDocK
02-12-2010, 03:25 AM
One last comment to the original poster:
While the comparison of your own army to the enemy army does not affect XP gained for your hero, it DOES affect XP gained for your pet dragon.

KD

Petwin
02-12-2010, 10:40 AM
Am I to understand that extending a fight to allow for more killing of summoned creatures does NOT give Amelie more xp, but WILL give the pet dragon more xp?

KrazyDocK
02-12-2010, 02:17 PM
Am I to understand that extending a fight to allow for more killing of summoned creatures does NOT give Amelie more xp, but WILL give the pet dragon more xp?

Well, not really. Usually extending a fight means leaving the enemy with a single small stack. Therefore the ratio of the enemy's current leadership over Amelie's current leadership will be very close to zero. And that's how much extra XP the dragon will get with each skill used at that point... almost zero.

KD

MaroonMaurader
02-12-2010, 03:24 PM
If you're using something like a single-troll stack, stronger towers and heroes that summon might give you a noticeable gain in dragon xp if you leave them around for a while.

As far as hero experience from summons, I just finished some simple testing by loading up old saves.

I fought Samman twice; once he used demon portal to summon 11 executioners, the other time to summon 11 executioners, 13 demons, and 24 demonesses. Both fights gave 22,204 experience.
I fought K'Tahu twice (cheating in advance to bump my leadership up to 120k to speed things up and make results easier to control); once he summoned 16 tirex and 207 hayterants. The second time he summoned 17 tirex, 674 gorguls, 74 brontors, and 241 gorguanas. Both fights gave 41,401 experience.
I fought the Pendant of Hypnosis twice. Once the gremlin towers summoned no units. The second time the gremlin towers summoned 9 beholders and 19 inquisitors. Both fights gave 520 experience.
I fought the Druidic staff twice. Once no units were summoned. The second time the druids summoned 100 bears, although the friendly griffin towers still summoned nothing. Both fights gave 2,176 experience.

loreangelicus
02-12-2010, 06:08 PM
This is very sad... so ancient knowledge scrolls are still the only way to hit level 60+. :(

DGDobrev
02-12-2010, 07:16 PM
Yes. It appears that summoned units do not provide any XP at all.

WhYdOyOuThInKtHaThApPeNeD
02-16-2010, 07:11 PM
Happened to be in a Chosha battle so let them summon for 101 rounds to see what the scores show. Over 200 Adult Gobots per round. Confirmed here also.

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/5269/101rounds.jpg (http://img697.imageshack.us/i/101rounds.jpg/)

MaroonMaurader
11-03-2010, 11:13 AM
Ok, here it is: the answer to all questions about how combat experience is gained. There are a few small points I had to make an educated guess about, but almost all of this is directly from the game files.

Experience gain after battles is controlled by a little function called arena.lua which is packaged into sessions.kfs. That function also handles gold earned from battles and a lot of record-keeping for end of game stats, and it might manage a few other things too (there are a few lines of code I wasn't too clear on). However, the basic formula is as follows:

experienceGained = [(total enemy leadership)*(leadership multiplier) + (boss experience)] * (1 + experience bonuses) * (enemy hero multiplier) * ("fake win" multiplier)

Total enemy leadership is the total pre-battle leadership of the enemy stack. It doesn't count summoned units, nor does it count the increase in leadership ghosts get from attacking, nor does it count anything else that might come up during the battle.

Boss experience is exactly what it looks like. Bosses are worth experience. You can read exactly how much if you want to check their .atom files in \data\data.kfs: 8000 for toad, 10000 for driller, 16000 for gremlion, 20000 for k'tahu, and 26000 for Baal.

The leadership multiplier is 0.017; you can find it in logic.txt in session.kfs. There's a little comment indicating that they might have thought it was actually 0.16, but I'm pretty sure that's not true - ivra's numbers (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=139797&postcount=2) don't add up if you use a 0.016 multiplier.

The experience bonuses are additive, not multiplicative. So a 20% leadership boost, plus a 5% boost from the medal, gives you (1 + .2 + .05) = 1.25 as a multiplier, not (1.2*1.05)=1.26.

The enemy hero multiplier is 1 if there is no enemy hero or if there is an enemy hero of level 0 (I'm not sure if this ever exists). Otherwise, it's 1.5 + 0.03*(enemy hero level); to give an example, a level-10 enemy hero boosts experience by a factor of (1.5 + 0.03*10) = 1.8.

I'm not totally sure what the "fake win" multiplier applies to, but I think it's for keeper battles (and maybe a few other weird battles?). It's 0.7 if your victory was a "fake win," and 1 if it was a normal win. You can check that too in logic.txt. Also, I'm pretty sure that gremlin towers in keeper battles don't give experience (their .atom files have no leadership entry and no experience entry, so I'm not sure where the game could get an experience value for them from).

Anyhow. I'm not sure how useful any of this information is, but I've been curious for a while about it so I went and looked into it, and now I figured I'd post it in case anyone else was curious.