General impossible difficulty (no loss)

[Chase]

Hey again, some of you might remember me from when I did this in TL as I had a decent thread going.

I noticed The Rider's post a few weeks back and I decided to give imp mage no loss a go again myself.

It is just insane. Im having a way harder time in AP then I had in TL. Its at the point where I just travel all over the place to see if I can score a kill on anything. Ive reached Verona and Ive cleared out the first 3 islands and most of rusty except 4-5 mobs/heroes.

My army consists of Arch mages, Inqs, Royal snakes, Trolls and Royal Griffins. My general tactic is to crowd control stuff for as long as I can while I tank stuff with my Trolls. I havent gotten resurrection or any half decent damage spell yet so it hurts.

Just like when I did this on TL I only made 1 game and never prescouted nor will I use the savegame editor. Not because I see it as cheating, I just like to play with what I get and make the best out of it.

But it seems a lot harder then it did in TL. Im not saying thats a bad thing, but I dident expect it to be so hard.

What normally ruins my day is ranged units. They tend to swap around and shot at random things in my army. The second my royal snakes and my inqs have taken a loss in the same fight its time to hit that good old f8 key.

At level 14 I have 14 intellect and 8 defense. Ive also gotten higher learning rank 1 so I can drop two rank 1 traps in the start to stop melee runners.

I spent 5 hours playing the game last night and I killed a total of 4 armys in Verona.

Btw, I HATE to kite the mapscroll guardians, its beyond tedious. :(

Anyone have any insight as Im actually considdering just making a warrior and be done with it. Right now Im playing close to exactly how I would play a warrior due to lack of decent spells. Except that with a warrior I would have more troops and my pet would do more damage.

Any input is welcome.

(love the AP so far in general)

[ender]

You can get first stone quest done in Bolo mines (easy to kill or kite droid hero) and you have paladins.

Or try to go to Montero. If you have some wanderer scrolls use those to fight bridge guardian.

[Chase]

You can get first stone quest done in Bolo mines (easy to kill or kite droid hero) and you have paladins.

Or try to go to Montero. If you have some wanderer scrolls use those to fight bridge guardian.

Done it.. Got 10 paladins.. I can get both hypnosis and sacrifize but I dont have chaos rank 2 yet so cant make me more paladins.

Ill give the guardian a shot. Ive kited all the way up to him anyways to loot and check the dwellings.

[Zhuangzi]

Actually I think no losses is easier in AP than in TL, even as a Mage. I am up to 159 battles without loss in my Impossible Mage game, and while it hasn't always been easy, it is certainly doable.

For me the keys are high intellect (over 40 for me at level 31), maxed Summoner ability for Phantomed Paladins (up to 81% now), as high leadership as you can possibly get (about 13,000 at level 31) and a few other things. I am using a team of Paladins, Inquisitors, Knights, Giants and Archmages. The Giants and Knights aren't essential, and in fact the Knights rarely seem to get into the action at the moment. Horsemen could be used instead. It's pretty simple. Sometimes I use Stone Skin + Target on the Giants on turn 1 (plus Archmages' Magic Shield) if I think I will absorb too much damage from ranged units. If that isn't necessary, I use Trap (I have the Trapper medal 3 and over 7000 damage on a level 3 Trap), or also Fire Arrow/Fireball. The baby dragon is mainly used for Mana Accelerator. So you smash the enemy but leave one pitiful unit left (preferably a ranged unit that won't get itself killed) and arrange your troops in a ring around the Paladin. This doesn't work for the Giants (or any other level 5 unit), but that's okay, as that's where the Inquisitors come into play. If you need more than one resurrection on the Giants, you can Phantom more Inquisitors. So it might take two or sometimes three Phantomed Paladin stacks to return all stacks to full health, and then ZAP! I hit the remaining stack with the Archmages. :cool:

[ender]

Even 10 paladins are good for ress (don't know your leadership, but probably you have space for max 20 paladins).

Imp mage noloss is hard and battles tend to take more time.

[TemjinGold]

For me, the key to impossible mage has been:

1) Pick up everything you can from Debir, Scarlett, and Bolo (if Rusty Map is unguarded on Bolo, then Rusty too) before fighting ANYTHING (except the 2 fights in the tutorial.)

2) Grind medals from the very start.

Don't worry about Battle Academy as much since that one goes REAL fast once you get Red Dragons. (Before that, my units/spells don't make much use of it anyway.)

Trapper is extremely easy to get to Level 3 if you are patient (mages need patience more than the other two.) I got mine after fight 28.

To get the physical resistance one, make the first fight you do the undead fight on Scarlett that is blocking the guaranteed Archmages. Bring only a full stack of Inq to that fight. You will get either 3 or 4 Archmages. Break them into stacks of 1 (if you got 3, make your last stack whatever you want.) Now hit the battles on Debir. Inq + random stack (if you have it) weakens enemies just enough for hero + dragon kick to kill with traps. Archmages spam Magic Shield every other turn. When there's only 1 enemy stack left, have hero switch to spamming L1 Stoneskin. Do this till Round 10 (drag out the fight if you have to.) If you were lucky enough to find 4 Archmages, you will get 20 to the counter per fight just from their Magic Shield alone.

Fire mage can be grinded the same way (~16-18 per fight) by abusing Oil Mist on easy fights. Since that spell does no damage, you can keep spamming it two per round on the battle field till round 10. Use one L5 stack and start the fight with Fear.

3) With a mage, sometimes less is more. Don't feel obligated to fight with all 5 stacks after you finish grinding the Magic Shield medal because that can actually make things harder. If you are going for no loss, the difficulty in that is only as much as your flimsiest stack. Using fewer stacks also means your dragon levels up much faster.

Using these tactics and more, I've never once had to use paladins and I generally dump Inq once I get L5 units (like that free Green Dragon.) Nothing wrong with using what's there, it's just playing completely defensive and ressurecting everything at the end just isn't really my style. Though I'm sure I might need to consider them for the last leg of the game to maintain no-loss.

[Zhuangzi]

Sounds like Temijen has got some good advice there. Some general advice for the Trapper medal:

- Obviously you need to find the Trap spell first! I think I had already played about 30 fights before I found it, but I could have looked harder.

- Archmages are great for their Telekenesis ability. Put a trap down and drag a weak stack onto them.

- Leave Crushing Blow at level 1 (it's not much use as a direct damage ability anyway) and use it to knock weak stacks onto traps.

- Then of course put traps between you and the enemy. The one that works best for me is when you have a weak enemy that can die from a trap, you can place a trap between it and your troop, and if it can only reach that troop and attack on the same turn it WILL step there.

I think I had Trapper 3 by 80 fights or so. I was averaging two per fight from 30-80. And the great thing about it is that it increases your trap power and places three traps on the battlefield (but they are only level 2 traps), so even if you never place a trap after that, it will be valuable for the rest of the game.

[Chase]

Thanks for all the advice. As soon as I found a call of colossus scroll that gave me 2 black dragons the game got a lot easier. I cleared out Verona and most of Montaro now. Found the navi chart to Shaterra unguarded in the mines under Montaro so I went there and picked up everything.

The problem initially for me was that I didn’t have any offensive spells and no resurrection. I had to rely solely on spells like haste/slow/trap/stone skin and with the low mage leadership that makes it hard as nails at times.

At Shaterra I got Fire rain, Icy Snake, Death Star, Resurrection and red+black dragons. The game just got a lot more fun :D.

My army now is: 3 Black dragons, 3 red dragons, 5 Giants, 7 Trolls and my last spot is either Shamans, Paladins or Cyclops. I haven’t used inqs since level 10 or so and paladins rarely fit into my setup right now. I know that 5 levels from now this is not a viable setup as I sometimes lose a level 5 unit and have to reload. But I stacked defense so far as those are the items I seem to be getting. Up to 21 defense and 20 intellect (And I’m trying to stack intellect)

Its not a revolutionary play style, but it certainly isn’t the one I had planned for. Initially I wanted to do the human morale army thing with Knight, pally, Inqs, Royal Griffin and Perhaps Arch mages, but we will see. I personally hate the fact that paladins move so slowly, but it makes them awesome for support.

Now I just send in my red and black dragons while I put a rain of fire on top of my black or red dragons. (Whichever dragon the hostile mobs gather around) And follow it up with some lightening love from my pet dragon. This added with the giants stomp ability makes for some fast wins.

Having a blast right now, but as soon as they are able to kill my black dragons the first turn I'll be in trouble with this lineup :).

[Zhuangzi]

Thanks for all the advice. As soon as I found a call of colossus scroll that gave me 2 black dragons the game got a lot easier. I cleared out Verona and most of Montaro now. Found the navi chart to Shaterra unguarded in the mines under Montaro so I went there and picked up everything.

The problem initially for me was that I didn’t have any offensive spells and no resurrection. I had to rely solely on spells like haste/slow/trap/stone skin and with the low mage leadership that makes it hard as nails at times.

At Shaterra I got Fire rain, Icy Snake, Death Star, Resurrection and red+black dragons. The game just got a lot more fun :D.

My army now is: 3 Black dragons, 3 red dragons, 5 Giants, 7 Trolls and my last spot is either Shamans, Paladins or Cyclops. I haven’t used inqs since level 10 or so and paladins rarely fit into my setup right now. I know that 5 levels from now this is not a viable setup as I sometimes lose a level 5 unit and have to reload. But I stacked defense so far as those are the items I seem to be getting. Up to 21 defense and 20 intellect (And I’m trying to stack intellect)

Its not a revolutionary play style, but it certainly isn’t the one I had planned for. Initially I wanted to do the human morale army thing with Knight, pally, Inqs, Royal Griffin and Perhaps Arch mages, but we will see. I personally hate the fact that paladins move so slowly, but it makes them awesome for support.

Now I just send in my red and black dragons while I put a rain of fire on top of my black or red dragons. (Whichever dragon the hostile mobs gather around) And follow it up with some lightening love from my pet dragon. This added with the giants stomp ability makes for some fast wins.

Having a blast right now, but as soon as they are able to kill my black dragons the first turn I'll be in trouble with this lineup :).

That's why I always cast Mass Haste on turn 1. You need level 3 Distortion for this. Best 10 mana you'll ever spend.

[Chase]

That would indeed make the human comp more viable :).

Perhaps I should look into maxing defense on this mage for the level 5 tanking that I enjoye so much right now. How hard is it once you reach levels 35-50? Do you think that I have to pick up int for spell pain and go for a more "normal" setup?

[Zhuangzi]

That would indeed make the human comp more viable :).

Perhaps I should look into maxing defense on this mage for the level 5 tanking that I enjoye so much right now. How hard is it once you reach levels 35-50? Do you think that I have to pick up int for spell pain and go for a more "normal" setup?

I haven't really tried hanging on to the level 5 units after level 30 or so, but I'd say it would be very hard or impossible to keep all of them alive against massive stack enemies. You can't cast Stone Skin on them all. I would think that you would have to use Inquisitors, and even then you will have your work cut out for you. But I could be wrong.

I get the idea that Intellect is much more important than Attack and Defense (for a Mage, I mean). Of course you need Attack and Defense to be on par with enemy heroes, but I had 25 Attack, 25 Defense and 50 Intellect at the end of my Impossible Mage game and that worked fine. So I would probably persevere with your current strategy for a while, but try to boost Intellect any way possible. If it gets too hard to keep them all alive, use Inquisitors. If that's too hard, you can play the 'vanilla' way - Paladins to resurrect level 1-4 units.

[Zechnophobe]

Level 5's are perfectly viable, due to Turn back Time spell. Since you can resurrect an infinite number of level 5's, so long as they all die in the appropriate turn order, it makes them very efficient tanks, especially fast moving ones like red dragons or Ogres. Frankly I spent the majority of my impossible, no kite paladin game using 3 or 4 (occasionally 5!) stacks of level 5 units. They just don't DIE very often, and target on the first turn can often make for an effective TBT on the second turn.

[Urbz]

That's why I always cast Mass Haste on turn 1. You need level 3 Distortion for this. Best 10 mana you'll ever spend.

Aye and/or teleport. This spell seems to be a bit under-rated but can also help quite a bit, level 1 already allows you to move 4 spaces which is not too shabby

[Elwin]

well i only use teleport when i have it at level 3 .. on my last game i didnt found it at all ;p

[Zhuangzi]

Actually even level 1 Teleport (4 squares) can be very useful for when the enemy have surrounded by Inqis or Archmages. But yuo would normally only use it as a Mage with Higher Magic, I guess. You get into the habit of casting one low mana and one high mana spell per turn.

[Arilian]

I am also trying mage impossible now and it works fine so far, i have already been at montero shattera and the demoen world at lvl 15.

I am using Beholders+Evil beholders + Red dragons as a tank with order 3/dis 2. ATM
1 mana heals full the dragon so if there are at most one stack of archers i can beat impossible stacks for now.

The Two beholder stacks are very important as they can disable and kill the low level units while the dragon tanks the high one.

For the last two spots i either use paladins (agains heroes as i do not have resurrect)
demonologists (summoned demons creates a lots of rage) or assasisn (because they are cool:))


I have 20 int ATM and trap 3 medal + trap arctifact. My traps do about 1k damage. Is this increases only by the Int or character LvL or if i upgrade to dis 3?

I like the Avanger Shield spell a lot, is is currectly doing a bit less than 1k damage, but 6 times. It also seems to trigger the Medal achievement 6 times, but i am not sure about this - i will check.

I really fear that on high level mage will be significantly harder than the warror.


To the OP: I think AP is easyer for No losses than KB:TL was.

[Elwin]

Spells damage are always the same. Level1 base damage, level 2 damage x2, level 3 damage x3

[Urbz]

Spells damage are always the same. Level1 base damage, level 2 damage x2, level 3 damage x3

Yeap but int obviously adds more dmg, and also to poison, burning and traps afaik.

[Ish]

I didnt see timeback spell in my whole game? (warr impossible)

I wasnt going for no losses in any case so no biggie, but would of been nice!

Btw hi Chase

[squallcs12]

I'm at level 13 and has just 2 dmg spell on my hand is Flame Arrow and Poison Skull. And my army has only 1 troops - Bone Dragon (1) (Init 7, Action Point 7).
At the beginning of the battle, cast Flame Arrow or Poison Skull to the highest HP enemy troop, then let my Bone Dragon wait - make sure it has highest init also. Then after enemy move, Bone Dragon fly to near the enemy troops, using ability Poison Cloud to dmg all nearby enemy. Then the next turn, move my Bone Dragon to a cell that can not be attacked by any troops and wait for Poison Cloud reload. Repeat this until defeat all enemy troops.
Each battle take much time than usual (about 50 - 70 turn) but I win for sure without loss. If combat with a enemy heroes, make sure that hero doesn't use any dmg spell like Flame Arrow or Ice Snake...etc.
I travel to all reachable islands and pick anything like gold + spell scroll + treasures ... without fight with any enemy. After that, begin fight with the weakest enemy and go on to win the game.

[Zechnophobe]

And what if you are up against archers? A stack of priests should likely be a bad thing to deal with.