Tactics and strategies discussion thread

[Hattrickkyle]

Really? Most things I had read before were that the Paladin was the weakest and the mage and warrior were both very strong at the end of the game. Any clarification you guys can provide would be great, as I plan to first play it as a Paladin, then next as a Mage on a greater difficulty setting. Thanks!

[DGDobrev]

Everything you need is in the high score thread and the info thread :) I tried to be as much descriptive as I could about my playthrough experiences, as well as certain tactics.

As a Paladin, on impossible, I had problems up until lvl 18, when I got Resurrection lvl 3. Afterwards the game was a breeze. Even the last battle with Baal ended up with only a few casualties.

As a warrior, you have bigger army, but you don't have the luxury of using scapegoat units, which is a certain setback. To compensate for that, the warrior gets the easiest start of the game, even on impossible.

As a mage, you have neither a big army, nor a scapegoat unit options. In addition to that, you don't have decent spells available early on in the game. You may be hard pressed to use Fireball and Flaming arrow most of the time up until lvl 15-20. The best spells - ice snake, geyser, fire rain, etc - are mostly available in the mid-game. Until then, you'll be struggling like crazy, especially on impossible.

This is the only setback I was referring to :)

[Elwin]

Mage is definetly the hardest in KB

[Elias_Maluco]

Mage is definetly the hardest in KB

Unless they changed the classes in AP, thats not true in my opinion. The warrior seemed the hardest one to me. The mage may be harder at the beggining, but when you got some powerfull spells and that skills that allows you to cast 2 spells on the same turn, it becomes a walk in the park.

[DGDobrev]

In KBAP, there are restrictions. Higher magic has 3 levels that allows to use the spellbook again 2/4/6 times per battle IF you cast a weaker spell in the first use, which means a spell that costs no more than 10/15/20 mana respectively. So there is no double armageddon, nor double geyser anymore, unless you'll settle to cast a weaker version of the geyser the first time.

I agree that in KBTL, as long as you had mana and a few rage points, you could easily play with 1 stack of Black dragons, Glot's armor and 2x armageddon. Well, this does not work in KBAP anymore. In addition to that, in KBTL you could easily sneak around with the mage, get some decent spells and start rocking. In KBAP you'll expend a considerable amount of nerves before you get the mage on par with the enemy armies. On normal, that's not that tough. On impossible, the first 25 levels are a pure walk through the seven circles of hell. Provided you can survive that walk, because without proper equipment, you'll start seeing overpowering and impossible enemies very early on in the game. Not to mention that you HAVE TO defeat them without losing a single unit as well, in order to get the Great Tactician upgrade in the first 50 battles, because it is crucial for the further development of your mage.

What you can do, is to try and lure the map guards away from the maps and try to steal a few maps, get to stronger areas and buy decent spells. On impossible, it looks like the only way you can get up to par with the enemies. However, not all guards readily leave their maps unattended.

Trust me, I've been there. Right now I have a lvl 14 mage on impossible which I don't even want to look at. I'm on Rusty Anchor island and all I can see is overpowering and impossible enemies, and that's keeping in mind that I lucked out with 2 officer's battons in the starting few islands. Not fun at all.

[jake21]

In KB (for me) warrior is the easiest at the end of the game; mage is the easiest at the very start. I'm on day 15 of my impossible warriror game and have two fight left to finish; and I wasted 2 days making extra trips to pirates. I have no clue why this game went so fast (the last 3 games I did on impossible took 21 days). Anyways this is my second play on warrior/impossible and in both games I breeze through the the last two areas. With mage (on impossible) I found them very very difficult. Perhaps my mage tactics aren't very good :(

Unless they changed the classes in AP, thats not true in my opinion. The warrior seemed the hardest one to me. The mage may be harder at the beggining, but when you got some powerfull spells and that skills that allows you to cast 2 spells on the same turn, it becomes a walk in the park.

[DGDobrev]

Your mage tactics are adequate, I can assure you. It's simply very hard to deal with the enemies on impossible with poor spells and low leadership. I also have the bad feeling that the mage will keep on struggling even in the mid-game, until she pumps up the intellect stat a bit (by that I mean 30+) so that her spells can actually make a difference.

EDIT: Well, that was interesting :) I spent the last 6 hours on a new mage hero, doing thieving sprees for maps and quests, and no battles whatsoever. I wasted over 4 days (now it's day 5, 8AM), but here's what I got:
All maps opened up but umkas, nameless and montero
Level 18
4000+ leadership (with only glory lvl 1, no items that boost leadership whatsoever)
120k+ gold (I made the mistake of purchasing troops - stupid idea)
15 T-Rex eggs
4 Black Dragon eggs
2 Red Dragon eggs
2 Emerald Green Dragon eggs
It is extremely irritating to get some of the maps, but in the end, it pays off. I restarted the game until there was a Verona map on Scarlet Wind next to the bridge. It is imperative for thieving sprees, as it opens up a ton of possibilities. Suffice it to say, the quests in Rehau alone (get a broth to improve Overseer Harus' pets - secrets of the temple - and Grass of Memory quest in the Temple of the Sleeping snake - you can evade the enemy hero that guards it) will net you a hefty bunch of levels. Other quests that can easily be done are the Dersu quests (make a gem necklace and get glasses for the old orc woman), the lizard's papers from rehau to verona and then to Elona (there is a shettera map there), then the quest for the demon's tongue (also nets a few levels), you will end up over lvl 15 for sure. Right now I'm 18, with a ton of runes to distribute, and I haven't even started fighting, nor have I done the quests on Rusty Anchor island.

Drawback: it takes quite a while to kite away the map guards. It also takes a ton of nerves to evade the enemy armies.
Positives: you start with good leadership (you had numerous flags for the taking), over 200k gold (even if you spend on a few items) and ready for everything.

[travelingoz]

I'm with DG on this. With the mage, you need some good artifacts when you start. I won't even try to start a game without the Ancient amulet so some serious sneaking is required to get enough cash to have that in your starting gear!

Also even with some good stuff, until you get Level 3 Chaos. Level 3 Destructive and your intellect well over 30, you're not doing a great deal of damage with your spells!

The problem with higher magic is that you have to cast a low level spell first. This means you can't for example cast phantom and then buff the unit with a lower level spell like mana spring or stone skin. (Unless of course you use a lower level of the phantom spell but then the stack usually gets wiped out before the end of the first round!) :(

[blueshrike]

EDIT: Well, that was interesting :) I spent the last 6 hours on a new mage hero, doing thieving sprees for maps and quests, and no battles whatsoever. I wasted over 4 days (now it's day 5, 8AM), but here's what I got:
All maps opened up but umkas, nameless and montero

It is extremely irritating to get some of the maps, but in the end, it pays off.
Drawback: it takes quite a while to kite away the map guards. It also takes a ton of nerves to evade the enemy armies.


Map Kiting - Could you maybe post in the Info Thread your strategies for this? On Scarlet Wind I was able to kite away one map guard (a pack of wolves) just off the main path near the castle. Other than that I've tried several times with a few enemies and they move just a smidge then go back up to the map. Occasionally I'll get them to follow me for more than that, but this happens infrequently and ends up with me getting caught or running away too quickly, then they turn back.

Have tried the inch up, inch down technique which causes them to spastically follow for a brief instant then turn around, then spin around again... but don't seem to be making progress.

Therefore I've just opened up Dersu from Verona the hard way (lost most of my troops in a pretty epic battle with lots of Royal Thorns + others, but survived.

But I'm level 17 I believe and am doing things (with the Mage) the hard way... unlucky with finding enough paladins now to fill up my leadership which is about 4.2k.

Thanks!

[Nike-it]

Please all post tactics and strategies discussion here!!!

[DGDobrev]

Well, I must admit that it's really hard to kite away map guardians. It took me 6 hours to do all of that...

The task is simple: get a decent mouse and try to click very close to the guardian. He will follow. Click very close to the first click and then quickly do the same close to the second click. It is very hard, but with any luck, you will be able to kite the guard away and you will be able to steal the map.

Well, you should be aware that this expends a considerable amount of energy, nerves and time. But in any case, it is doable. Keeping in mind that you can't use a cheat to open up all maps, this is the only way to do it. It takes practice and a lot of dedication. I am aware that few people will go so far, but in the end, it's very rewarding and it always pays off.

As for other tactics... I'm certain they will be discussed later on. I don't think it's fair to other players to ruin their games by discussing something that is for them to discover. Besides, the paladins + phantom tactic has been discovered a long time :)

[blueshrike]

Please all post tactics and strategies discussion here!!!
Yes I goofed -thought I was in a different thread. Happens when you have multiple ones open :)

Thanks a lot! Figured it was difficult but glad to see that it's not just me :).

[travelingoz]

You usually need to approach your target from a 90 degree angle. So for example one of the map guardians on Anchor island can be kited away relatively easily the other, for me anyway, is impossible because you have to approach through such a narrow channel.(The quality of your mouse IMHO has nothing to do with it. I'm running KB:AP on an old Acer 2.4G P4 with 1G RAM and a crap mouse on minimum settings and it's all good! However if anyone has successfully kited away both map guardians on Anchor with or because of a better setup, then i guess i'll have to eat my hat!)

Approach at 90 degrees, close enough to the target to make it move/alert but far enough to avoid it's strike. Immediately it starts moving, hit the space bar to pause and quick save! Then try to move forward and in the desired direction away without letting your target lose interest. If this happens, reload to the quick save that first got your target interested and try again... (You know the target has lost interest if you see the ?? over it)

It's as/not as simple as that. ;)

(Note: I found that while the map guardian on Anchor was impossible, on Elona between the two castles where you also only have a straight on approach, if the map guardian was an Ent it was quite easy but a Unicorn was impossible..)

BTW Blue.... If you're playing mage on impossible and willing to sacrifice 2~3 days at the start, you can kite to at least Verona then Tekron, Dersu or Elona and possibly Shettera!

[blueshrike]

BTW Blue.... If you're playing mage on impossible and willing to sacrifice 2~3 days at the start, you can kite to at least Verona then Tekron, Dersu or Elona and possibly Shettera!

Amazing - will have to give that 90 degree kite a whirl. I'm taking it to mean that if the enemy is facing down as in a "V", then you approach it from < or > either the left or right (sideways), not like ^

[travelingoz]

You got it! Head on in most cases will not work.

Ideally try to come from just less than 90 then pick a straight line that will take you just past the front of the target. As soon as it moves hit space and quicksave, then move a little again. If the target is still following, hit space quick save and move again.

If you find after you reload the target has lost interest or you can't avoid a fight, delete the last save and go from there again. With a little practice it's actually quite fun and i enjoy the challenge!

[Meow]

With the mana accelerator skill, it is very easy to level up the casting medals very quickly.

I just got Iron Knight on my warrior, by walling a Marauder into the corner and casting berserk on him 10x in a row in two successive battles. Use one inquisitor to pump rage for conversion to mana.

Also split Maurauders can be used to cleanup 4 corpses per battle. You can get away with this at least on the first island on impossible.

And of course the already mentioned two treasure chests per battle with treasure searcher.

I also left some of the incredibly easy battles on the first island (e.g. devil fish) for when I could return with walls or a disabling spell so I could grind medals for 10 turns.

I try to makes sure all my mana and rage is spent by battle end.

Also use the pet regularly for him to level. Question though. I can't figure it out. Pet exp gained seems to be linked to number or difficulty of skills used. But then it seems to be capped, such that the dragon gains only a certain percent of the total battle exp. Does anyone know the formula? How many times must I use the dragon each battle to max out exp for the battle?

[DGDobrev]

You should refer to each dragon skill. It shows the exact amount of XP gained per use :) As such, there is no maximum XP gained for the dragon for each battle. It's all the matter of rage and utilizing the high-XP gain skills.

Here's the XP at max skill level. You can use it as a referrence because the table is pretty much the same for the lower levels:

Crushing blow - 34 XP
Treasure Searcher - 17 XP
Ball of Lightning - 46 XP
Mana Accelerator - 29 XP
Mystic Egg - 33 XP
Stone Wall - 39 XP
Dragon Dive - 28 XP
Battle frenzy - 37 XP
Burning Lava - 40 XP

[Meow]

Thanks for the table. Having played a bit more I am starting to feel pretty confident there is a cap on dragon exp that is tied in a ratio to total hero exp gained.

I did a sneak game on impossible with a warrior. My first battle was an invincible battle against the emerald dragon on rusty island against the emerald dragon and 4 groups of dragonflies. My dragon gained 1600 exp going from lvl 1 to lvl 1 lvl 14 in one battle. I used 200 rage.

The next battle I fought against the first group of monsters on debir. I used 400 rage this battle. But I gained only 14 exp. Less than 1% of my first battle, even though twice the rage was used. My dragon also had +60% learning, which he did not the first battle.

Phantom on inquisitors works wonderfully to generate infinite rage for pet use. Because the 3-10 mana from an inquisitor generates on average 19.5 mana in 3 uses, which is more than the 15 mana phantom spell, it is possible to generate infinite rage each battle. But this appears rather pointless early game as pet exp seems to be tied to battle exp.

Not a bad thing as you would otherwise be able to max the dragons level in a single battle once you find phantom.