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View Full Version : My FW190 rant


HauptmannMolders
10-31-2009, 09:20 PM
I know we've discussed the handling issues with the P-51 and to a lesser degree the FW190 but yet there has been no mention specifically related to the 190 that says its flight characteristics will be addressed other than to say that some of the planes will have their fuel loads adjusted. I assume this is based on the fact that the P-51 is probably more popular? So I figured I'd look around and see if my understanding of the 190 were correct and figured that comparing it to the bf109 would be a good reference point so here is what I've found:

From Fritz Seyffardt a 30 victory ace:
"In 1942, I flew my first Fw 190; I was thrilled with this machine. During the war I flew the Fw 190A, F and G models, and also the Messerschmitt Bf 109. The difference between the Fw 190 and the Bf 109 was that there was more room in the Focke-Wulf's cockpit and the controls were simpler — for example, landing flaps and trim were electric. Another pronounced difference was the stability of the Fw 190. Thanks to its through-wing spars and wide landing gear the machine was substantially more stable in flight."

So here we have our first evidence that the flight model is incorrect the FW190 in this game may be the most unstable plane going especially once the P-51 gets fixed.


From Heinz Lange a 70 victory ace:
"I first flew the Fw 190 on 8 November 1942 at Vyazama in the Soviet Union. I was absolutely thrilled. I flew every fighter version of it employed on the Eastern Front. I believe the Fw 190 was more manoeuvrable than the Messerschmitt — although the latter could make a tighter horizontal turn, if you master the Fw 190 you could pull a lot of Gs [g force] and do just about as well."

According to Widar's test results as well as my in game experience with the 190/109 I have found that the two are no where near the same in the horizontal turn, upwards of 10 seconds or 50% longer to complete a horizontal turn in the 190? This doesn't sound like "just about as well".


From Fw190 Operational History, Weal, 2003
"In a climbing/diving dogfight (below 6,000 m with the Fw 190 A, at all altitudes with the Fw 190 D), the Fw 190 could easily out perform the Bf 109".

Don't really need to add much here...


From the Reichling Assessment Team
"In terms of maneuverability it completely outclassed the 109. With light, positive controls making it much easier to handle the Focke Wulfe could outturn and out roll the Messerschmitt at any speed"

Some conlficting evidence now but the point stands that it should at least be close in turning radius to the 109. This also brings up the roll rate, it is generally considered that the 190 had the best roll rate of any fighter bar none in WW2 and in fact in comparable to some modern 4th generation fighters! Yet again though in BOP while it is good it is outperformed by more than one Russian plane.

From Werner Seitz Luftwaffe pilot
I liked the 190 very much, it was a much better aircraft than the 109. You could curve it, you could fly fast, everything with that aircraft was wonderful.

Again what can I add.


Not that I expect any action on the patch/dlc but it would be nice to at least understand from one of the developers why they hamstringed this fabulous aircraft to such a degree. I use it anyway in certain situations and am very excited to get the canopy view, its just a shame they did not do it justice. I am aware that the 190 was responsible for thousands of Soviet deaths (but then so was the 109) and yes this is a Russian game maker but why not make it as accurate as possible? It is supposed to be a console based flight simulation.

edal86
10-31-2009, 09:41 PM
well, the fw 190 in the game can outturn and outperform the bf 109 g6 and k4 for sure. I can give you a demonstration if you like :)

The only plane I wont go 1 vs 1 on the game using the fw 190 is against the Spitfire

Ancient Seraph
10-31-2009, 10:25 PM
I suggest we wait to see what the update brings (yes, I know, we've been waiting a long time, no need to remind me and make another 'patch is not coming, suxxxooorsss!!111!' thread). Settings of multiple aircraft will be changed. There's been no specific confirmation that the 190 is included, but I'm guessing it is.
Going completely clueless as to the historic facts of the 190, I say there's a chance that the 190 model in-game is accurate, but has a weird fuel amount which would normally not be used (P-51-style).

HauptmannMolders
11-01-2009, 12:22 AM
well, the fw 190 in the game can outturn and outperform the bf 109 g6 and k4 for sure. I can give you a demonstration if you like :)

Lol! That sounds like fun lets do it! I don't know maybe I'm not flying her right... actually thats likely but she's still not as good as she should compared to the competition methinks. I usually fly the F4 if I'm in a 109 so perhaps the comparison is flawed I'll try the G6.

Robotic Pope
11-01-2009, 12:51 AM
I unlocked my 1st FW190 tonight, the 190F. Took it into a training session with a whole load of veteren IL4's at 7500m. The ai flew the IL4 bombers like fighters and totaly outperformed me. I then lost some altitude to try to pick up some speed which didn't work. I tried to climb back up to the circling bombers at around 22,000ft but couldn't even reach them, my FW190F would lose a stupid amount of speed with the smallest degree of climb and then stall. I had to quit the mission very disapointed, Ive been playing CTA and Strike games with the Ju87D for weeks to unlock this plane and it sucks hard. It's broken for sure, worse than the P51D.

FOZ_1983
11-01-2009, 02:11 AM
I unlocked my 1st FW190 tonight, the 190F. Took it into a training session with a whole load of veteren IL4's at 7500m. The ai flew the IL4 bombers like fighters and totaly outperformed me. I then lost some altitude to try to pick up some speed which didn't work. I tried to climb back up to the circling bombers at around 22,000ft but couldn't even reach them, my FW190F would lose a stupid amount of speed with the smallest degree of climb and then stall. I had to quit the mission very disapointed, Ive been playing CTA and Strike games with the Ju87D for weeks to unlock this plane and it sucks hard. It's broken for sure, worse than the P51D.


So THATS why you've been using it!! i just thought you were trying to be a pain in the arse lol :D

irrelevant
11-01-2009, 02:35 AM
I unlocked my 1st FW190 tonight, the 190F. Took it into a training session with a whole load of veteren IL4's at 7500m. The ai flew the IL4 bombers like fighters and totaly outperformed me. I then lost some altitude to try to pick up some speed which didn't work. I tried to climb back up to the circling bombers at around 22,000ft but couldn't even reach them, my FW190F would lose a stupid amount of speed with the smallest degree of climb and then stall. I had to quit the mission very disapointed, Ive been playing CTA and Strike games with the Ju87D for weeks to unlock this plane and it sucks hard. It's broken for sure, worse than the P51D.

I finally unlocked the F8 after suffering for a week or two with the JU87D. I played one sim match of CTA and promptly had my pilot's wings handed to me.

:(

edal86
11-01-2009, 06:34 AM
ok, sorry today I had to work so I could not play (10/31/09) however, Im available all day today (11/01/09) so just message me so that we can schedule a match.

I will use fw 190 D and you can use any bf 109 model, I will try my best against bf 109 E, F4, G10 and G2, but against bf 109 G6 and K4 I am very confident that fw 190 is better fighter in BOP game.

kozzm0
11-01-2009, 01:46 PM
I could be wrong but isn't the 190's main strength its roll and its rotary engine? As compared to planes like 109 and p51.

I haven't unlocked any but in practice with limited ammo against bombers, I get better results with the 190d9 than most other planes, mainly because it's fast enough to weave up and down without falling back into the gunner's cone. And the roll rate makes it easy to switch direction fast to keep the separation to a minimum. I had to reduce aileron sensitivity quite a bit cause the roll reacted so quick.

p51 wasn't supposed to be a great dogfighter, I hope they don't fix it too much.

mattd27
11-01-2009, 02:02 PM
I could be wrong but isn't the 190's main strength its roll and its rotary engine? As compared to planes like 109 and p51.

I haven't unlocked any but in practice with limited ammo against bombers, I get better results with the 190d9 than most other planes, mainly because it's fast enough to weave up and down without falling back into the gunner's cone. And the roll rate makes it easy to switch direction fast to keep the separation to a minimum. I had to reduce aileron sensitivity quite a bit cause the roll reacted so quick.

p51 wasn't supposed to be a great dogfighter, I hope they don't fix it too much.

It couldn't turn like a spit, but it certainly didn't perform like it currently does in game. The P-51 shot down many 190's back in WWII (and visa-versa :) ) but I can't see it getting many kills in BoP. And with the ridiculous pricetag on the P-47, I have no american dogfighters to play with!:o

Ancient Seraph
11-01-2009, 04:10 PM
It couldn't turn like a spit, but it certainly didn't perform like it currently does in game. The P-51 shot down many 190's back in WWII (and visa-versa :) ) but I can't see it getting many kills in BoP. And with the ridiculous pricetag on the P-47, I have no american dogfighters to play with!:o
Don't feel sorry about not having the P-47 to dogfight with... you'd be kind of disappointed.

mattd27
11-01-2009, 04:13 PM
Don't feel sorry about not having the P-47 to dogfight with... you'd be kind of disappointed.

Why has that been botched too? I mean I know it's a heavier plane, but I assuming it could still get the job done ( a la the IL-2). Real P-47's have had good success in dogfights have they not?

MorgothNL
11-01-2009, 04:15 PM
Why has that been botched too? I mean I know it's a heavier plane, but I assuming it could still get the job done ( a la the IL-2). Real P-47's have had good success in dogfights have they not?

it has 0% capabilitys to dogfight. really.. it is nice in CTA and strike, but in dogfight, you will lose for sure even against an enemy 3x as bad as you

Ancient Seraph
11-01-2009, 04:16 PM
Why has that been botched too? I mean I know it's a heavier plane, but I assuming it could still get the job done ( a la the IL-2). Real P-47's have had good success in dogfights have they not?
Probably the same problem as the P-51, not sure if the P-47 had the same huge fuel tanks though. I guess if you can get kills with the IL-2 (note: not IL-2M ;)) you can get kills with the P-47 as well. You'll just have to avoid turning. The good thing about the P-47 is that it has pretty good guns, and very nice armor.

mattd27
11-01-2009, 04:28 PM
Well I can handle myself pretty well in a normal IL2, however I'll say the turret of the IL2M is a nice emergency procedure for when your being double teamed by a couple of 109's.:)

It doesn't really matter though, I'm not forking over $10 for one plane (as much as I'd love to rain bombs 1000lb bombs on unsuspecting planes in CTA). :mad: But uh let's not start another thread about overpriced DLC. :neutral:

Doktorwzzerd
11-02-2009, 08:13 PM
Don't feel sorry about not having the P-47 to dogfight with... you'd be kind of disappointed.

And the ultimate irony is that the P-47 was designed by Russians!

Ancient Seraph
11-02-2009, 08:15 PM
And the ultimate irony is that the P-47 was designed by Russians!

That's only ironic if you're one of those people who believe Gaijin's anti-american and plans to detonate a nuke in the US.

Doktorwzzerd
11-02-2009, 08:29 PM
That's only ironic if you're one of those people who believe Gaijin's anti-american and plans to detonate a nuke in the US.

HA I knew the end of the cold war was just a dirty Soviet trick!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGNo6H16rDU
this is even funnier in spanish!


I don't believe that but it couldn't it be ironic becuase Russian game devs unintentionally nerfed a russian designed plan?