My FW190 rant

HauptmannMolders · #1 10-31-2009, 09:20 PM

I know we've discussed the handling issues with the P-51 and to a lesser degree the FW190 but yet there has been no mention specifically related to the 190 that says its flight characteristics will be addressed other than to say that some of the planes will have their fuel loads adjusted. I assume this is based on the fact that the P-51 is probably more popular? So I figured I'd look around and see if my understanding of the 190 were correct and figured that comparing it to the bf109 would be a good reference point so here is what I've found:

From Fritz Seyffardt a 30 victory ace:
"In 1942, I flew my first Fw 190; I was thrilled with this machine. During the war I flew the Fw 190A, F and G models, and also the Messerschmitt Bf 109. The difference between the Fw 190 and the Bf 109 was that there was more room in the Focke-Wulf's cockpit and the controls were simpler — for example, landing flaps and trim were electric. Another pronounced difference was the stability of the Fw 190. Thanks to its through-wing spars and wide landing gear the machine was substantially more stable in flight."

So here we have our first evidence that the flight model is incorrect the FW190 in this game may be the most unstable plane going especially once the P-51 gets fixed.

From Heinz Lange a 70 victory ace:
"I first flew the Fw 190 on 8 November 1942 at Vyazama in the Soviet Union. I was absolutely thrilled. I flew every fighter version of it employed on the Eastern Front. I believe the Fw 190 was more manoeuvrable than the Messerschmitt — although the latter could make a tighter horizontal turn, if you master the Fw 190 you could pull a lot of Gs [g force] and do just about as well."

According to Widar's test results as well as my in game experience with the 190/109 I have found that the two are no where near the same in the horizontal turn, upwards of 10 seconds or 50% longer to complete a horizontal turn in the 190? This doesn't sound like "just about as well".

From Fw190 Operational History, Weal, 2003
"In a climbing/diving dogfight (below 6,000 m with the Fw 190 A, at all altitudes with the Fw 190 D), the Fw 190 could easily out perform the Bf 109".

Don't really need to add much here...

From the Reichling Assessment Team
"In terms of maneuverability it completely outclassed the 109. With light, positive controls making it much easier to handle the Focke Wulfe could outturn and out roll the Messerschmitt at any speed"

Some conlficting evidence now but the point stands that it should at least be close in turning radius to the 109. This also brings up the roll rate, it is generally considered that the 190 had the best roll rate of any fighter bar none in WW2 and in fact in comparable to some modern 4th generation fighters! Yet again though in BOP while it is good it is outperformed by more than one Russian plane.

From Werner Seitz Luftwaffe pilot
I liked the 190 very much, it was a much better aircraft than the 109. You could curve it, you could fly fast, everything with that aircraft was wonderful.

Again what can I add.

Not that I expect any action on the patch/dlc but it would be nice to at least understand from one of the developers why they hamstringed this fabulous aircraft to such a degree. I use it anyway in certain situations and am very excited to get the canopy view, its just a shame they did not do it justice. I am aware that the 190 was responsible for thousands of Soviet deaths (but then so was the 109) and yes this is a Russian game maker but why not make it as accurate as possible? It is supposed to be a console based flight simulation.

edal86 · #2 10-31-2009, 09:41 PM

well, the fw 190 in the game can outturn and outperform the bf 109 g6 and k4 for sure. I can give you a demonstration if you like

The only plane I wont go 1 vs 1 on the game using the fw 190 is against the Spitfire

Ancient Seraph · #3 10-31-2009, 10:25 PM

I suggest we wait to see what the update brings (yes, I know, we've been waiting a long time, no need to remind me and make another 'patch is not coming, suxxxooorsss!!111!' thread). Settings of multiple aircraft will be changed. There's been no specific confirmation that the 190 is included, but I'm guessing it is.
Going completely clueless as to the historic facts of the 190, I say there's a chance that the 190 model in-game is accurate, but has a weird fuel amount which would normally not be used (P-51-style).

HauptmannMolders · #4 11-01-2009, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edal86

well, the fw 190 in the game can outturn and outperform the bf 109 g6 and k4 for sure. I can give you a demonstration if you like

Lol! That sounds like fun lets do it! I don't know maybe I'm not flying her right... actually thats likely but she's still not as good as she should compared to the competition methinks. I usually fly the F4 if I'm in a 109 so perhaps the comparison is flawed I'll try the G6.

Robotic Pope · #5 11-01-2009, 12:51 AM

I unlocked my 1st FW190 tonight, the 190F. Took it into a training session with a whole load of veteren IL4's at 7500m. The ai flew the IL4 bombers like fighters and totaly outperformed me. I then lost some altitude to try to pick up some speed which didn't work. I tried to climb back up to the circling bombers at around 22,000ft but couldn't even reach them, my FW190F would lose a stupid amount of speed with the smallest degree of climb and then stall. I had to quit the mission very disapointed, Ive been playing CTA and Strike games with the Ju87D for weeks to unlock this plane and it sucks hard. It's broken for sure, worse than the P51D.

FOZ_1983 · #6 11-01-2009, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robotic Pope

I unlocked my 1st FW190 tonight, the 190F. Took it into a training session with a whole load of veteren IL4's at 7500m. The ai flew the IL4 bombers like fighters and totaly outperformed me. I then lost some altitude to try to pick up some speed which didn't work. I tried to climb back up to the circling bombers at around 22,000ft but couldn't even reach them, my FW190F would lose a stupid amount of speed with the smallest degree of climb and then stall. I had to quit the mission very disapointed, Ive been playing CTA and Strike games with the Ju87D for weeks to unlock this plane and it sucks hard. It's broken for sure, worse than the P51D.

So THATS why you've been using it!! i just thought you were trying to be a pain in the arse lol

irrelevant · #7 11-01-2009, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robotic Pope

I unlocked my 1st FW190 tonight, the 190F. Took it into a training session with a whole load of veteren IL4's at 7500m. The ai flew the IL4 bombers like fighters and totaly outperformed me. I then lost some altitude to try to pick up some speed which didn't work. I tried to climb back up to the circling bombers at around 22,000ft but couldn't even reach them, my FW190F would lose a stupid amount of speed with the smallest degree of climb and then stall. I had to quit the mission very disapointed, Ive been playing CTA and Strike games with the Ju87D for weeks to unlock this plane and it sucks hard. It's broken for sure, worse than the P51D.

I finally unlocked the F8 after suffering for a week or two with the JU87D. I played one sim match of CTA and promptly had my pilot's wings handed to me.

edal86 · #8 11-01-2009, 06:34 AM

ok, sorry today I had to work so I could not play (10/31/09) however, Im available all day today (11/01/09) so just message me so that we can schedule a match.

I will use fw 190 D and you can use any bf 109 model, I will try my best against bf 109 E, F4, G10 and G2, but against bf 109 G6 and K4 I am very confident that fw 190 is better fighter in BOP game.