4.11 - AI debugging

[sniperton]

I too have some strange AI wing behaviour since 4.11.1. I fly offline missions generated by DCG. I order flight #2 to join, leader says OK, then leaves with his mates for home. Same result when I point out the enemy and give order to attack. It seems to me that pre-set wayponts might be "stronger" then the orders of the squad leader. Can anyone confirm?

[JtD]

Hi sniperton, it is always good to record a track and share it, it is the easiest way for TD to look into issues. They may be very specific and hard to reproduce. In case of AI I've also had issues like you describe, but not always and found it very hard to pinpoint the circumstances under which AI will go foolish.

I know that low fuel level may cause AI to head for home, can this be a reason for what you are seeing?

[sniperton]

Originally Posted by JtD

Hi sniperton, it is always good to record a track and share it, it is the easiest way for TD to look into issues. They may be very specific and hard to reproduce. In case of AI I've also had issues like you describe, but not always and found it very hard to pinpoint the circumstances under which AI will go foolish. I know that low fuel level may cause AI to head for home, can this be a reason for what you are seeing?

With Murphy I can say that odd things only happen when ntrk recording is off... Otherwise I completely agree, and, yes, AI is not always foolish: that's the biggest problem -- at least so far as debugging is concerned. As to fuel level, flight #2 left me after some 80-100 kms of flight with G.50 Freccias, so I don't believe it was the reason. Anyway, next time it happens I will check it.

[Fall_Pink?]

Originally Posted by daidalos.team

@moderator: please make it a sticky

We will continue to develop and release further AI improvements in future patches. Please help us to identify any 4.11 AI related issues and post them here with detailed description, screenshots, videos, etc. Thank you.

Daidalos Team

Well, I few a few missions 4.11.1 today again (crappy cold weather outside, thus...). Some some AI moves that maybe should looked into are:

- fighters escorts that engage, then disengage and fly away, higher and higher. Then turn back in a very long dive at high speed or disengage completely and move on to their next waypoint.
- Jabo's that attack and make a pass at their target, then slightly zoom up again and want to make a hard left or right bank and steeply downwards for a second pass. This second move brings them very close to the ground and they sometimes crash.

Rgs,
FP

edit: using 4.11.1 and latest hsfx .16.

[Jumpy]

Three things That I would like fixed. AI bombers don't maintain level on bomb run. They seem to make either a shallow dive or shallow climb, level out and then drop bombs. Also jettisoning their bomb load when attacked is unrealistic. That would have been a court martial offense, at least. At the moment if I make a bomber attack mission in FMB I can cause most of the bombers to dro their bombs before they get to the target just by attacking them myself, or by being attacked by the AI fighters.
The last thing is probably just my opinion, but I think it unrealistic that the AI crews fly happily along in an aircraft that is streaming flame. In reality, if it burns, you bale!

[D-XXI]

I'd like the radar removed from the enemy AI planes ! Often, when Í'm way out of visibility range, they ignore other planes from my side and start chasing my plane all the way to my home airfield.
I would like to have a fair chance of getting home savely if I ran out of ammo/fuel or if my plane is damaged.

[Jumpy]

Originally Posted by D-XXI

I'd like the radar removed from the enemy AI planes ! Often, when Í'm way out of visibility range, they ignore other planes from my side and start chasing my plane all the way to my home airfield.
I would like to have a fair chance of getting home savely if I ran out of ammo/fuel or if my plane is damaged.

What I do is this: Fly as fast as I can. Maintain trim. Every time the engine over heat warning goes out I close the Radiator until it gets hot again. Fly very low and hug the contours of the ground and if you make it to home base:- Make sure you have set up a couple of light flack guns , 50 cal, 20mm or 25mm to defend your home airstrip. Draw the chasing plane into them. I have done this when out of ammo and been successful. It really is more fun than just flying home watching the scenery.

[Lagarto]

Originally Posted by Jumpy

Fly very low and hug the contours of the ground

That's usually enough to shake off pesky attackers. Not long ago I was trying to get back to base in a badly shot-up machine, with three AI on my tail. After a few twists and turns they all crashed, one by one. Not very realistic but, as fan boys used to say, "you can't model everything"

[FC99]

Originally Posted by Fall_Pink?

- fighters escorts that engage, then disengage and fly away, higher and higher. Then turn back in a very long dive at high speed or disengage completely and move on to their next waypoint.

I made some changes in that regard, can you post your problematic mission so I can test if the problem is fixed.

- Jabo's that attack and make a pass at their target, then slightly zoom up again and want to make a hard left or right bank and steeply downwards for a second pass. This second move brings them very close to the ground and they sometimes crash.

I'm aware of that but I don't know what is the exact cause of that, I'll check it when I find time.

Originally Posted by Jumpy

Three things That I would like fixed.

1. AI bombers don't maintain level on bomb run.

2. Also jettisoning their bomb load when attacked is unrealistic.

3. The last thing is probably just my opinion, but I think it unrealistic that the AI crews fly happily along in an aircraft that is streaming flame.

1. Not a priority.
2. Are you talking about bombers or fighters with bombs?
3. I'll check that, they should bail when on fire.

Originally Posted by D-XXI

Often, when Í'm way out of visibility range, they ignore other planes from my side and start chasing my plane all the way to my home airfield.

AI doesn't target player specifically but I see how it could happen that they "all" go after you. There will be some changes in 4.12.

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I would be happy if my wingman/flight just attacked the plane chasing me when I ask for cover or I ask for help from anyone....

In 4.11 if you want your AI to be aggressive you have to issue "Attack" command first. So when you see enemy order "Attack" to wingmen and follow it with "CoverMe", that way Wingman will behave same as enemy AI. Another possible "problem" is how your Wingman assess the danger. That depend on skill and Rookies will let the enemy in your tail while Aces will be lot more aggressive. Anyway, some changes have been made for 4.12 already and in addition there will be more Orders options in Comms menu.

Originally Posted by robday

Recently I have been playing a campaign (offline) in the Bf110 G2 over the Kuban map and have found that the aircraft exhibit different behaiviours dependant on loadout.

Correct, sometimes AI behavior depend on loadout. If two flights are in the mission and second have first one as a target than the second one will behave as escort if it doesn't have bombs or rockets. In case that second flight have offensive weapons than it will act as a flight in formation with the first one.

Is there some way to ensure that if the mission task is ground attack the members of your group will stick to the mision objective?

Not really. I must add new parameter for behavior enforcement. Best you can do now is to be very creative in mission design.

Originally Posted by Juri_JS

At the moment I am building a mission with Ju-87B2 and Swordfish in it, both aren't carrying bombs. To my surprise the Swordfish are attacking the Stukas. I tested the mission with other ground attack plane types and all are showing the same behaviour, except the Ju-87B2, which acts like a normal bomber.

So my questions is, is there a way to stop the AI of ground attack aircraft from attacking other bombers? If not, would it be possible to add an option in FMB that can stop the AI of a flight group from engaging other planes?

Planes that are categorized as Attack planes in the game will attack other non-fighter planes unless they are carrying offensive weapons.

It's possible to add new option. When? I don't know.

[Alien]

Not only jabos drop bombs when attacked. I play a QMB mission now to practice shooting (Crimea, low altitude, my advantage, 4 Il-2m3s + 3 Il-2s 3rd series and me in a Bf 109G-6) and every time I am next to the Ilyushins, they dump their bombs. IMO, they should do it when they're badly shot, unless they are already flying coffins (my attacks usually end up with a tailless Il-2 spinning to the ground after a single very short burst from a 20-50m distance, just like the experts hunted ). So it isn't just fighters' case, it's a common problem, especially in the eastern front.