Mid-game crisis :<

[jwallstone]

@ Ryastar:
Thanks for being honest about the math error, it happens to everyone. I completely agree with you that Sprites are definitely better without the two +1 damage items. With them, they're essentially the same in pure damage. I double checked the in-game damage ranges, and Sprites have better average damage (lower min but even higher max) against "vanilla" enemies, but against ones with magic resistance or high poison or fire resistance, the LF damage is slightly higher.

Critical hit percentages only show up with the Interface mod. If you hover over the Attack value of the troop or over an enemy, it'll display the % chance.

Not to dwell on this any more, since it's not related to the rest of the thread, but just to offer one final bit of information for those interested. The base % critical hits are Sprites 10%, LF's 15%. With +3 morale from Anga's Ruby and 0 rage, it becomes S: 14%, LF: 21%. With full rage (106), it becomes S: 26%, LF: 39%. The full LF critical hit % is quite impressive, and is one reason I like them.

@ Vulture
Ryastar has given you tons of good advice, which I completely agree with and if you follow it, will probably help a lot with these battles.

[Vulture]

Wow, thank you for your rather big list of proposals. I appreciate that will to help. Yet you seem to have skipped most of my statements. But I do post a lot I must admit. Maybe it's up to me to reduce my count of words to make more desirable posting worth being read fully

1. I said that I have sprites now. Tried them with a 3-she-elves combo as you describe using practically the tactics you describe (end of turn/first in turn double strike move) and as replacement for the lake fairies. Both ways did fine but left me with heavy losses on both fairies and sprites.

2. I do use Dryads properly and I have said that. I do use the most powerful spell ingame provided by a non end-game unit correctly. If only I had the spell turns to phantom them I would chain-sleep the 1-3s. And of course I do approach afterwards, drop thorns and leave, having a 500+ thorns stack ready to get eaten. Yet the damage is taken by Ls and Ss and not the thorns or mostly shared between the latter 2 which leaves me up to 60 mana for 2 stacks to rezz (40 if I'm lucky on the rank needed to bring em back) which is the opposite of what I want.

3. I said 2 times that I did try range units for those fights with the elven bow w/ 3 attack to archers and 15% extra physical damage on range dmg + elven crown giving me additional 1000 Ldr and +1 morale but their damage is just sucky as hell. A non-double shot kills exactly 1 ancient ent or 1 1/2. Whilst facing 25 on the field this is just a joke, I'm sorry to say that. I used both 2 Elven Archs + Sprites with dryads as well as 2 Elven archs, Bowmen, Emeralds and and inquis.

4. "Get your basic stats higher". Yeah, good advise, I can't script 'em into my game but atm I must settle with what is available (and I searched all of Demonis + land of the dead by now having everything explored except of 2 of the dragon spots in GW with 3+ dragon troops on a very very little area with no place to circle them having other 'impossible's in my back from where I came from) and that is angas ruby, sword of darkness (as said, I wanted light but fighting elves certainly denies that wish :> and of course I did NOT wear it while using the girl-combo) or elven bow or basic +3 atk + what not sucky bonus. The worst shit is my regalia slot: iron tooth, training chamber loot, woohoo. Never found a different regalia.

5. I stated on the first page that I am married to feonora since I went until Ellinia with a devastating Stack of Royal Snakes still keeping up my damage score records. In frog form of course, else makes no sense. Since I've read that Feos kids are most likely to be crappy (not only Feo's but 80% of any kids are) I don't have any, using the artifact/belt/helm slots for the stuff I have around. Few + Ldr/ Def / Int put around there. I would take atk If there was any item providing it in my game. But I still have chances since there are many shops to unlock by quests for higher levels. I would also take Xeona and I will for sure but I can't even think of facing her in battle...

6. I completely changed my setup being back from lotd as I have found blackies and ancient vamps over there. So I go with Blackies, Necros, Ancient Vamps, Skellie Archs and Demons which makes things much easier for me. I can finally spend a cast/turn for dragon arrows3 on the skellies. I still have to learn to estimate the dmg in and out for after timeback on the demons though not to lose too many vamps since I'll end up kiting turns to sacc/TB again for preserving losses. But that's a matter of ~5 fights to master. I do have black knights available, too. Maybe I'll give them a shot.

7. Thanks again for taking the time to analyse my situation. Much appreciated over here.

Few qs: Didn't try yet but do demons suffer from the plague spell from the necro ? If so I will exchange em with black knights or blue vamps.

Vamps in Bat form only drain life out of living creatures. As I've seen, plants don't count as living, is that correct ? Since I've wondered vamp bats not draining life out of hitting ents.

@jwallstone: I agree on these advice, too. Yet except for the description about 'aggro gain' I was familiar with all of them. I was wondering how the AI chooses targets if range/turns till strike is/are equal for 2 of my units back then. Now I seem to get it from my own estimation and Ryastar's clear statement. i used to think of something like 'AI seems to go for both, lower level if it has to choose and for dmg out weakening on enemy units per estimated own dmg done'. Wonder if this is understandable ^^

[Zonc]

Originally Posted by Vulture

6. I completely changed my setup being back from lotd as I have found blackies and ancient vamps over there. So I go with Blackies, Necros, Ancient Vamps, Skellie Archs and Demons which makes things much easier for me. I can finally spend a cast/turn for dragon arrows3 on the skellies. I still have to learn to estimate the dmg in and out for after timeback on the demons though not to lose too many vamps since I'll end up kiting turns to sacc/TB again for preserving losses. But that's a matter of ~5 fights to master. I do have black knights available, too. Maybe I'll give them a shot.

That's a good setup, however I would swap dragons with some other ranged uint (thorns are good with +dmg items, or just simple bowman). Demons + Target got all 1-4 units covered, so the only worry are 5 lvl tanks. Use Dragon Arrows against them

Vamps in Bat form only drain life out of living creatures. As I've seen, plants don't count as living, is that correct ? Since I've wondered vamp bats not draining life out of hitting ents.

- plants
- cyclops
- other undead (they're still valuable in Death Land though, just save living creatures for vamps so they can regenerate)

[jwallstone]

@ Vulture
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "aggro gain". As for AI choosing targets, they tend to target creatures that have a higher damage potential. This usually means large stacks of lower level units. They seem to have a preference however for certain special units, such as inquisitors. I've found that phantoms or summoned thorns also seem to get preference. Finally, if you have a unit next to an enemy ranged unit, if the ranged unit can move away and still shoot, it will almost always shoot the unit it just moved away from. That can be very useful for figuring out how to neutralize enemy ranged units.

[Vulture]

I'm pretty happy with it, too zonc. You're right about a second range unit (with respective gear for them) to be more suitable in this setup than dragons but still I have none of those items and no tolerance (UD+Demons around) so bowmen won't go. I prefer dragons for now for their fire damage and their special ability because in Ellinia multitarget fire damage is way better than single target physical. Took out a stack of sprites and 2 small stacks of ancient ents lined up yesterday with a fine 3x 4k fire breath. But of course for demonis and lotd the blackies will decorate a garrison and I'll go as you advise. Also, I was lucky to get another -rest lvlup for timeback so I'm with 20 rage / 3 turn rest for 1-5 creatures which is perfect as can be. Gives me the opportunity to reduce battle length to a max of 5 turns without kiting around too much waiting for next sacc/tb to work. Is there a chance to get it below 3 turns ? Reaper is only lvl 16 atm so there's much to come. 2 turns would be a blast :>

Funny thing is, I found my 2nd and 3rd sacrifice spell yesterday and my 3rd ressurrection (was even a stack of 3 scrolls of it and I felt very bad selling them ^^). I hope I don't pay for this spell luck in my next game ^^

Thanks again everybody for your help, I've learned a lot about helpful synergies through your comments, especially about skellie archs with DA. I usesd to be disappointed about this spell with hunters until I learned more about dmg increase through defense ignore for big stacks of low lvl archers. It increases the dmg by a much higher amount than with high lvl archers with higher attack rating and higher damage ratio (i.e. 2-3 vs 8-12). I'll keep that in mind for when I get the whip and hopefully find the dagger for the Ls and Ss waiting in Kronberg Castle to finally kick some asses :>

[Elwin]

Originally Posted by Vulture

But of course for demonis and lotd the blackies will decorate a garrison and I'll go as you advise. Also, I was lucky to get another -rest lvlup for timeback so I'm with 20 rage / 3 turn rest for 1-5 creatures which is perfect as can be. Gives me the opportunity to reduce battle length to a max of 5 turns without kiting around too much waiting for next sacc/tb to work. Is there a chance to get it below 3 turns ? Reaper is only lvl 16 atm so there's much to come. 2 turns would be a blast :>

Bah, my reaper with level 16 got only time back 1-2 As i wrote in other thread i still wonder if i did something wrong or its pure random and i am extrelemy unlucky for upgrades of time back Atm got the best rage skill completlety useless ( would work with sprites/dryads but i am happy with my current setup) .
As for demonis i agree blackies are useless i tried it ,did no damage at archdemon and not much to others .However i find them usuefull against Karador in lotd, had royal snake,shaman,emerald,hunter, elf in my team but after first recognizing fight ( which was failure of course) i fount out thats my weakpoint because he was main target for Karador's hypnosis and actualy he was kiling me instead of helping. Replaced him with blackie and problem with hypno dissapeared Karador got defeated . Actually with undead army you will not have problem with hypnosis ^^

About ranged setup you mentioned in first post : elven bow isnt bad, but in my opinion for such setup ale barrel + telescopic sight is a must be, addidional 100% attack and 30% crit make my elves and hunters hell powerfull , could add an elven bow for even more damage but actually i am playing mage and need more items for spells than for units.

[Zonc]

Originally Posted by Vulture

Is there a chance to get it below 3 turns ? Reaper is only lvl 16 atm so there's much to come. 2 turns would be a blast :>

Yes my warrior had 2 turn cooldown so there was only one turn for the assault unit to spend idling. However, it's required to win Bogacho's catle battle ASAP (my record is level 8 ) and have the skill that increases exp for spirits (which is very tough for a mage)

I usesd to be disappointed about this spell with hunters until I learned more about dmg increase through defense ignore for big stacks of low lvl archers.

To maximize damage try to achieve around 25-30 attack for skellies. This way maximum bonus (+200%) is achieved and they do tremendous damage (like 12k regular non-crit even for 5 lvl units). This is why I recommend Dark Commander, Xeona with 2 weapons is also very helpful.

[jwallstone]

Sorry, I just want to point out that the maximum damage bonus is achieved when your attack is 60 greater than the enemy's defense, not 30. Each point is a 3.33% bonus, so 30 gives a 100% bonus, and 60 gives a 200% bonus.

For some reason, this math mistake keeps on showing up on the forums.

[Zonc]

I would some link to confirm this, thanks (I'm curious myself)

[Vulture]

Originally Posted by Zonc

Yes my warrior had 2 turn cooldown so there was only one turn for the assault unit to spend idling. However, it's required to win Bogacho's catle battle ASAP (my record is level 8 ) and have the skill that increases exp for spirits (which is very tough for a mage)

To maximize damage try to achieve around 25-30 attack for skellies. This way maximum bonus (+200%) is achieved and they do tremendous damage (like 12k regular non-crit even for 5 lvl units). This is why I recommend Dark Commander, Xeona with 2 weapons is also very helpful.

Yes, at least 1 point into the rage spirit talent is crucial. Cheap 10% for them is a must-have imho. Yet I decided not to go for more as a 5% increase seemed too expensive for me as a paladin.

Righty about the Skellies. Got my attack up to 15 from former 8 (2 attack lvl ups, many altars of combat and 2 artifacts) and it was remarkable. They go for 6k+ DA shots by now... and that's by far not the end of the line. I am very convinced of them and I won't ever go without 'em anymore unless I am forced to. Heard about the Karador battle requiring melee only.

By the way I saved runes during the last 3 lvls (22 now) and I can go for 2/2 tolerance (still having headache about taking bullshit to get to it but I could now) and 2/3 Dark Commander if I buy a might rune at 100k. Was pretty lucky on doing the whip quest. The Road's Architect Shop unlocked presented me a fine Assassin's dagger and of course the whip <3. The bad part about this is that I can't get Xeona for the weapon slots. So no elf girl action for me now. I don't know if her army is guaranteed to be the same every game but in mine 300 Demonesses (split in 2x 150 ie 2 Infernal Exchange dangers) along with 100 Demons and a good 1k fire spiders, imps and catapults on top plus demon portals from Xeona spawning 4 Arch-Demons is way to much for me atm. I know what you will say about this: mass magic shackles and block the way with summons. Mine is at lvl 2 only for I'm scared of the 40 mana casting costs and it will once again block my cast/turn plannings.
1. Shackle 2. Target [timeback] 3. Target 4. Shackle
leaves no space for mana spring or Dragon Arrows and beats me down to only ~30 mana (3x 6 regen already calculated). Lina's Chargers still unimproved with 1 orb of each, never got asked for a up yet -.-

I felt better having neither whip nor dagger than having both and being unable to use them ^^

Nevertheless, no Sprite/Fairie massacre for me yet so I'll have to rely on the benefits of tolerance. Vamps showed up almost useless in lotd where I'm at right now so I'll try Demons, Skellie Archs, Hunters, Blackies + probably inquisitors. To keep Demons reliable I'll have to find a way to avoid enemy vamps on them somehow. And the Inquis finally can be more than a once-per-battle cast saver but a reliable dps unit as well.