Pony talk

[IceFire]

What's the other thing people usually ask for about the Mustang. There was a different engine boost setting for USAAF Mustang's used against Japan correct? Was that a higher setting or a lower one?

[T}{OR]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I still think that the stock Mustang in 46 is .. questionable... and from what I understand this was actually proven.. the length was too short I believe.. This was corrected in the HSFX Mustang.. and from my understanding that was all they did, was correct that number and added API to the belting... IMO the stock Mustang had issues.. Your tracks are great Thor.. but yoiu know back in CFS the 99th flew Mustangs there too... and that is to say that we just took what we had and used it.. which is what we do here... when flying D-20NAs .... but there are ussues with the stock P-51s that were never addressed.. even in terms of the 50s... Why is it that in the stock sim you can take a P-40 ... same 6 50s right? And bustem up!! but in the Mustang ... it is harder.. because there were stability issues in the stock Mustang that I have not heard one pilot who flew a Mustang mention... Often flying the stock P-51D was like trying to balance a ruler on a pencil eraser ... Hopefully in 4.10 some of those issues are addressed....

Thanks mate.

Yeah, the stock (haven't tried anything else) is a bit twitchy. That is why I always flew with 100% sensitivity on all axes. With minimal rudder input and good trim she can shoot very steady, like I have shown in the video.

But I do agree, it does have some issues. Not a show stopper, but not perfect either.

[ElAurens]

Originally Posted by IceFire

What's the other thing people usually ask for about the Mustang. There was a different engine boost setting for USAAF Mustang's used against Japan correct? Was that a higher setting or a lower one?

Much higher. I forget the exact manifold pressure, but P 51s operating in the Pacific had all the 150 Octane Avgas they would ever need.

One of the mods does indeed reflect this with the later Mustangs (D25 D30) that they put in as new slot aircraft. I'd have to look at the MP next time I fly one to see, but it's well over 70".

And a shameless plug for my favorite aircraft here...

I'd still like to see the over boosted P40s that the USAAF and RAF used, both in the Pacific and North Africa. They were field modded to get 70 odd inches of mercury, which yielded something on the order of 1600 bhp at low levels.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

Much higher. I forget the exact manifold pressure, but P 51s operating in the Pacific had all the 150 Octane Avgas they would ever need.

One of the mods does indeed reflect this with the later Mustangs (D25 D30) that they put in as new slot aircraft. I'd have to look at the MP next time I fly one to see, but it's well over 70".

And a shameless plug for my favorite aircraft here...

I'd still like to see the over boosted P40s that the USAAF and RAF used, both in the Pacific and North Africa. They were field modded to get 70 odd inches of mercury, which yielded something on the order of 1600 bhp at low levels.

Do performance charts exist for either these P-40s or the P-51s? That was always the problem with the Tempest receiving it's 1945 boost levels of +11 (some even had +13lbs of boost). There was serious effort to include an official +11 Tempest (I'm aware of the unofficial one which I think is just an educated guess) but the charts are totally incomplete and I was never able to find any more information. Same problem with the Mustangs or is it better documented?

[Blackdog_kt]

Actually over-boosted models make a bigger difference in IL2 than they did in reality. That's why i was moaning about systems modelling and improved engine management for SoW

Those 70 inHG of manifold pressure or +11lbs of boost or 1.75 Ata and what not are settings we can run all day long in IL2. In reality power settings like those were used only for take-off and emergencies, usual limits being between 1 and 5 minutes and based on the amount of time it took a freshly started engine's temperature to climb to melting point where things start to break.
Lining up on the tarmac on a hot day and being last for takeoff meant they were almost unattainable to begin with, flying high in cold air with mixture on the rich side and open radiators/cowl flaps could give a few extra seconds.

True, it could make a difference if i'm trying to catch someone or i need that extra little bit of power to evade a bad situation, but by no means does it constitute any kind of permanent advantage in reality. Not only does overheat occur fast, cooling the engine equally fast will not solve the problem...in fact it can also cause damage due to expansion-contraction of the metal parts, but on the other hand i would still need to cool the engine as the longer it stays like that, the higher the risk of something breaking or an oil fire breaking out.

Even if i bring it back within the limits, every second spent above them is damage and risk of malfunction that accumulates and doesn't just evaporate the moment i am back within the normal temperature envelope. Of course, we don't have those things in IL2 and that's why everyone prefers to fly the highest boosted variant of each type. Case in point the Spit +25lbs. In reality, maximum continuous boost for Spitfires was around between +8 and +10 lbs, anything higher than that came with a time limit and a rapidly climbing radiator coolant temperature. If the coolant temp exceeds 100 degrees Celsius or starts to evaporate, you're left with an engine that will either seize completely or is even more restricted by overheat in the amount of power it can produce.

Sorry to be a killjoy, but unless we see some kind of engine paramameters modifications in a future patch i think we have enough high boost planes as it is

[ElAurens]

IceFire, check your PMs.

[Romanator21]

I agree with Blackdog completely.

I would like to add that I feel it's too difficult to start an overheat in the first place. Another quirk is that the overheat doesn't do any damage to the engine until it's been in the overheat condition for at least a few minutes.

[ElAurens]

"Feeling" that something is too difficult is not good enough.

Empirical data is the only way to set such parameters.

Frankly most aircraft in the sim overheat far too readily in flight, especially the air cooled birds, FW 190 A excepted.

[KnightFandragon]

Originally Posted by Romanator21

I agree with Blackdog completely.

I would like to add that I feel it's too difficult to start an overheat in the first place. Another quirk is that the overheat doesn't do any damage to the engine until it's been in the overheat condition for at least a few minutes.

How do you avoid an overheat? You say you find it difficult to start one, I cant help but start overheat haha...I try to fly on lower power settings till combat then I run 110% and change my throttle throughout the battle as neccesary but I always wind up with an overheat...I just got out of a SP game and my engine died b/c of overheat...it was overheating for quite some time haha....P51 is still not impressing me hahah Although the Ultra mod Pack and HSFX does make it quite alot better then the base Il2...it actually flies now atleast, then to boot the Blue Nosed bastards of bodany skin makes it pretty awesome.

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

"Feeling" that something is too difficult is not good enough.

Empirical data is the only way to set such parameters.

Frankly most aircraft in the sim overheat far too readily in flight, especially the air cooled birds, FW 190 A excepted.

I think IL2 models a lot of things very well. What's missing is that they have no effect whatsoever on engine condition, not unless the engine completes one full "session" of overheat to trigger the seizing effect. If the "session" is reset (by going back to normal temps before damage starts to occur), then the engine is as good as new.

In reality, things would be more gradual. The engine would start exhibiting troublesome behaviour earlier (this doesn't mean it would always be detectable though, it could a background occurence that would take extra abuse to show symptoms) which although not outright fatal, would accumulate over time for every instance the pilot pushed it beyond the normal envelope.