Share Your Real Pilot Stories

[redtiger02]

Originally Posted by Kamak86

Ok, im just trying to get an idea of what i have to do, I have a private's. The plane is a C-404, with 1 pilot and 1 camera man. I would be hired on as a camera man for their company. Once the photos are taken they would land and refuel. Then the pilot and i would take off and fly the plane to the homebase as a dead leg. I might try and call my local FSDO and try and see what they say.

If the PIC was a CFI would that change anything on the dead legs?

The status of the PIC isn't a factor to the FAA. You just have to show that you did fly the plane at least part of the flight and that you are considered essential crew by the PIC. It's a good idea to get him to sign the notes section of your logbook saying that you were essential crew and that you did at least some of the flying. Just do it on the first entry and they won't question the rest of them in that aircraft. The FARs on multi time are a very grey area on what multi time you can and can't log. Have your PIC put the log entry in there and his CFI number, if anyone had a question about the entry that should erase all doubt. The CFI is an all-knowing, all-seeing pilot to the FAA, so it's a good way to cover your bases.

[redtiger02]

One thing though, if you don't have a multi rating and your PIC is a CFI, you can probably get a multi rating on the first flight. Multi engine private only requires a checkout with a rated CFI. If you want multi commercial, you're in for some big money. The checkout it nothing special if you already have high-performance and complex endorsements. Just do everything twice. The only new skill he will teach you is feathering. It's nothing special, just like in any high performance you pull the prop RPM, only it will have a barrier break, where you twist it 1/2 turn and pull it all the way to completely coarse out the prop so as to make it perpindicular to the wing. You just do that to prevent windmilling, where you are catching drag on the dead engine that causes a yaw instability. My only real dead engine was in a Twin Commander, so outside of 1 experience and the training received beforehand, I don't have anything else useful to tell you. Multi time + CFI as PIC = multi rating for you. Go Kamak!

[Whiskey Red]

Unfortunately, if, for no other reason, because you are not twin rated, you cannot log any multi-time (PIC or otherwise). If he is an MEI (meaning that he is a multi-engine instructor) then on the dead leg, in this case (since it sounds like you're just operating under parts 61 and 91), you could log duel received (and he will need to sign your logbook). However; remember, he must be an MEI. If he is a CFI or CFII, then you still won't be able to log the time.

I think we may be diverging from this forum's intent a tad bit . Be careful when you ask a CFI a question about flying. You may not be able to get him to shut up!

I really do hope this helps. I'm just telling you the way it is written. It is still good experience to fly in a twin, even you aren't logging time, however.

[redtiger02]

Did you ever notice how it took less than a day for real pilots to basically commandeer this board?

[Whiskey Red]

Originally Posted by redtiger02

One thing though, if you don't have a multi rating and your PIC is a CFI, you can probably get a multi rating on the first flight. Multi engine private only requires a checkout with a rated CFI. If you want multi commercial, you're in for some big money. The checkout it nothing special if you already have high-performance and complex endorsements. Just do everything twice. The only new skill he will teach you is feathering. It's nothing special, just like in any high performance you pull the prop RPM, only it will have a barrier break, where you twist it 1/2 turn and pull it all the way to completely coarse out the prop so as to make it perpindicular to the wing. You just do that to prevent windmilling, where you are catching drag on the dead engine that causes a yaw instability. My only real dead engine was in a Twin Commander, so outside of 1 experience and the training received beforehand, I don't have anything else useful to tell you. Multi time + CFI as PIC = multi rating for you. Go Kamak!

Brake time!!!!!!!!! WHAT!!!?

DO NOT BELIEVE ANY OF THIS! Most of this false false false!

You do need to take a private pilot checkride WITH an examiner for a twin rating. It is NOT a sign off! I cannot believe what I am reading. Please, I am trying to be civil, but this is absolutely outrageous!

Trust me! I went this way! I took my private pilot multi exam after I recieved by private single. I even took my multi-commercial exam before I took my single commercial. These are all certificates and not sign offs!

Also, a CFI CANNOT sign your logbook endoursing multi-time UNLESS he is an MEI!

A CFI does not equal all knowing to the FAA. They check us too!

Also, there is a lot to a twin checkride that you must learn besides feathering; like a VMC demonstration!

Please, redtiger02, check your facts. I am only trying to help!

Kamak86, double check everything you read (even from me)! Use the FARs as a resource! Find a CFI in real life and talk with them, too!

[redtiger02]

Originally Posted by Whiskey Red

Unfortunately, if, for no other reason, because you are not twin rated, you cannot log any multi-time (PIC or otherwise). If he is an MEI (meaning that he is a multi-engine instructor) then on the dead leg, in this case (since it sounds like you're just operating under parts 61 and 91), you could log duel received (and he will need to sign your logbook). However; remember, he must be an MEI. If he is a CFI or CFII, then you still won't be able to log the time.

I think we may be diverging from this forum's intent a tad bit . Be careful when you ask a CFI a question about flying. You may not be able to get him to shut up!

I really do hope this helps. I'm just telling you the way it is written. It is still good experience to fly in a twin, even you aren't logging time, however.

If he is essential crew and the CFI is an MEI he can log it as training, at the dicretion of the CFI. I'm II and MEI and see this situation all the time in the DFW area. My original reply was assuming that he was already multi rating, hence the additional comment of using the first flight as his checkout. Multi is wrapped up in the same debate that Sport/Recreational pilot is, as in what time gets counted towards what. AOPA has a pretty good writeup about the technicalities. Use your first flight to get multi rated, then do a least some of the flying and be signed off as essential crew on the flight. I do need to specify, as what I said earlier was kinda vague.

If you are taking pictures, you are not at the controls and can't log the time. But, see if he will let you fly to your target area and then run the dead leg back. I did some work for USGS when I first got out of the Army in '05 and that is how I got my multi rating. Just remember my advice, and remember it well: IF YOU DON'T REMEMBER IF THE GEAR ARE DOWN OR NOT ON LANDING, THEY AREN'T.

[redtiger02]

You need a checkride with a DPE for ME-C, I haven't done a private ME since 06 but I haven't seen any significant change in the FAR about it. Incidentally, regarding my earlier statement, aren't we pretty far from talking about BoP? Somebody mention release dates or DLC to get back where we're supposed to be.

[redtiger02]

German cockpits!

Expensive DLC!

Holes in the wing!

Russian planes!

Donuts!

There, are we back on track now?

[Whiskey Red]

Originally Posted by redtiger02

The status of the PIC isn't a factor to the FAA. You just have to show that you did fly the plane at least part of the flight and that you are considered essential crew by the PIC. It's a good idea to get him to sign the notes section of your logbook saying that you were essential crew and that you did at least some of the flying. Just do it on the first entry and they won't question the rest of them in that aircraft. The FARs on multi time are a very grey area on what multi time you can and can't log. Have your PIC put the log entry in there and his CFI number, if anyone had a question about the entry that should erase all doubt. The CFI is an all-knowing, all-seeing pilot to the FAA, so it's a good way to cover your bases.

This is also false!

It is not up to the PIC to decide who gets to log what in their logbook! The rules are very specific. I'm not really even sure what you're talking about at this point.

Also, we are not all knowing or all seeing! Believe me! We make plenty of mistakes too! You need an MEI or nothing!

Read my other post. It tells you exactly what you need to have in order to log PIC or SIC time. Read part 61 of the FARs! I do not know where redtiger is getting this information.

[Whiskey Red]

Originally Posted by redtiger02

German cockpits!

Expensive DLC!

Holes in the wing!

Russian planes!

Donuts!

There, are we back on track now?

Thank you! Much better!