oleg, you better hurry, RoF is releasing a ww-2 sim next

[Chivas]

Originally Posted by zapatista

chivas, i dont think that is a valid argument

you'r basically saying that we (the long term flightsim enthusiasts, rather then dabbling newbies) should always blindly support and unjustifiably glorify any flightsim program that gets released, no matter how bad it is or whatever problems it might have, just because we are a smaller subsection of the gaming world and somebody makes "something" for that genre.

personally i think we should take the exact opposite approach, and only support quality products that have good content, and those that provide us with content and features we actually want. to get a yardstick of what that minimum level of quality and content should entail, we should look for something that is BETTER then the best individual aspects of the current and previous state of the art products in that category (like il2-1946 or ms-fsX products, and the better previous ww-1 sims), not something that might only look a little prettier in the eye candy department then older games and then doesnt include (or even deliberately regresses or removes) many basic components/aspects that make up the now well understood minimum standard for a "good game" in the flightsim genre.

there are many many problems with the RoF sales model and the product itself, i wont extensively list them all here again because it gets rather boring, but at the moment of sale in the west it very obvious it is more like a late beta with multiple deliberate limitations added that cripple it even more (limited servers, limited type of online play, limited planes, limited maps, limited season of year, daytime flying only etc..), and whatever you buy is a disposable item that has no intrinsic or long term value or usage whatsoever. looking at some of the main RoF forums in the last few weeks the volume of complaints from disappointed and frustrated customers is very high, so severe in fact they already had to release a few of their precious extra planes as "free" extra's (jay, you can now fly 4 planes instead of 2 !, /sarcasm off, but it still has lots of lockups, crashes, and you cant play it offline at all etc..). btw in some of their western world game advertising they previously had already stipulated you could fly some of those new "free" planes, so not providing them could have landed them in more hot water.

if you are going to be so desperate to always accept anything new, no matter how bad it is, just for the sake of getting something, then all we will get in future is similar crap, if you pardon my french, because that product and sales model will be deemed a successful model for those that will make products afterwards.

your argument about already having an expensive pc with various expensive flightsim hardware addons is also the wrong way around imo. people buy pc's for multiple usage purposes, then most flightsimmers here spend an extra 30 to 50% to get better components and extra hardware for it, but they bought those extra items specifically to fly and enjoy the few good flightsims that already exist, and to enjoy them in the best possible way, not the other way around.

does that mean there is nothing good about RoF ? there are some good aspects, but with the deliberately imposed limitations and buggy state it is right now, for the better informed flightsim customers that make up a large part of this small market it definitely aint worth the full game price they are asking the way it is in its current form, and for the new type of product it is it should be avoided completely untill they correct some of the major limitations (currently they hope people wont look to closely at what they are actually getting before they spend their money, and the perpetual roiling carpet of paying more money they need to continue with).

they have essentially taken a console product sales model where you buy a locked item at full price that can only be played on one station at a time, but have then prevented you from playing it as a stand alone game offline which is what most people normally would do (and then still constantly force you to keep buying more extra's for it like more cars, planes, or scenery like you do with some console games), and then mixed this with aspects of the "online-only" flightsim model (where you normally get the game for free and pay a monthly subscription to play it, but in this case they make you pay for the game itself to), but they then added their own further twist on it, make the game deliberately incomplete to start out with (one season, one map, 2 flyable planes only, daytime only, etc..) so people need to start immediately buying more items and features from the start, and then also make it 100% reliant on some distant russian server functions that can be stopped or discontinued at any time, forcing you to buy their next product when they decide to shut it down (or fail), leaving you with absolutely nothing.

if that is your dream of the future of flightsimming, i think you have set your standards rather low

Actually my standards are quite high. When I see an emerging quality developer, I'll support him with my monies and words, and I'll keep supporting them as long as the quality carries on. Quite frankly what we pay for quality flight sims is a joke compared to the monies, talented people, and time required to devleop them.

Personally I'm mainly waiting for SOW, and have no problem waiting for a completed quality product. That said I'm able to enjoy another uncompleted quality product in ROF now. It also wouldn't have bothered me if Oleg had released SOW early with just a map, spit, hurri, 109, and He111 as it would have given me time to learn those aircraft and navigate the map. I have alot of respect for IL-2 series and how it was continually improved over the years. I see ROF having the same kind of future. The only difference is Oleg has the resources to hold off release until SOW is complete where ROF doesn't have that advantage.

You can chose to kill the developer withholding your monies and trashing the sim, but I've chosen to help them continue their quality work.