ratings of German experts

[Feuerfalke]

It's funny this is stated about axis pilots, whereas Allied pilot, especially US-pilots were artificially "upgraded" to produce more aces. In 1944 and again in 1945 all "probables" were upgraded to "kills". This is documented and it leads to some really interesting numbers.

For example: After the war the US Ministery of Defense compared the numbers of subs sunk by US-Airforce and Navy to the actual numbers of subs sunk. It turned out that the US alone sunk about 1300% of the subs ever built by Germany including WW1.

Nevertheless all of the "corrected" aces were decorated as normal.


So, propaganda is one thing, but you have to consider 2 things:
1. All sides lied about numbers and statistics, always claiming to have won over the enemy, no matter if they really did. So in a way, even if stats were overexagerated, they were on all sides.
2. It's one thing to believe the propaganda, another thing to rely on real logs. And these were actually the basis of the kill-numbers claimed and they were quite difficult to obtain, as you had to have either physical proof for the kill or at least one eyewitness. If you couldn't come up with either, it was not a kill for the record.

[LEXX]

Yes, elite would be a good description. The Japanese airmen as well. Apparently, Bf-110 units were considered the top elite until BoB And Beyond -- is this Correct Thinking? It makes sense. When I played the sim, I started slow work on a Barbarossa 1940 campaign, and while planning it, I felt the Bf-110 just seemed to stand out as the most important tactical cover fighter and interceptor given its useful range over Eastern Front, and lack of MiGS, Yaks, and LaGGS in 1940.

[wannabetheace]

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke

It's funny this is stated about axis pilots, whereas Allied pilot, especially US-pilots were artificially "upgraded" to produce more aces. In 1944 and again in 1945 all "probables" were upgraded to "kills". This is documented and it leads to some really interesting numbers.

For example: After the war the US Ministery of Defense compared the numbers of subs sunk by US-Airforce and Navy to the actual numbers of subs sunk. It turned out that the US alone sunk about 1300% of the subs ever built by Germany including WW1.

Nevertheless all of the "corrected" aces were decorated as normal.


So, propaganda is one thing, but you have to consider 2 things:
1. All sides lied about numbers and statistics, always claiming to have won over the enemy, no matter if they really did. So in a way, even if stats were overexagerated, they were on all sides.
2. It's one thing to believe the propaganda, another thing to rely on real logs. And these were actually the basis of the kill-numbers claimed and they were quite difficult to obtain, as you had to have either physical proof for the kill or at least one eyewitness. If you couldn't come up with either, it was not a kill for the record.

Feuerfalke: That is the difference in fighter doctrine. In german a fighter is called "Jäger" (=hunter), whereas the soviet "Istrebitel" means "destroyer". The fixation on aerial combat and personal victories was indeed a double-edged sword.

Disagree in large scale.

It is too easy (and ansolutely wrong) to try to describe the strategy and tactics of the Soviet strategy in a few words.

It was different in different time periods and in different theaters of operations.

The same is about the Western Allies Air Forces strategy and tactics.

[Igo kyu]

It does you no credit to misspell an author's name because you dislike their book.

The nazi propaganda system certainly existed, but so did a considerable soviet one.

Stalin was not a nice person, he had millions of Russians killed before the start of the war, and this is often alluded to as a cause of the soviet forces being inexperienced. A large number of their leaders were shot for allegedly not being good enough socialists, whether they were technically competant at performing their duties or not.