THE TRENT WAR --- a new campaign!

[raknefne]

Thank you GhoulKing for your inputs! I haven't touched either Rage Skills nor Talent Skills in Trent, seems the Paladin skill tree is up next...

Paladin skill tree: For instance in Huntiro's mod, he added overall Resistance to the skill Prayer, just like a saw a The Legend mod that also did that. I will have a look at the Paladin skill tree and lower them, especially Diplomacy/Prayer. Also the Diplomacy Skill could be enhanced by getting more than 100% exp but 200% for instance. I'll post more when starting to plan changes.
Trent is a shorter game, u end up at level 35 or so. And I haven't checked prices for Talent Skills at all compared to vanilla.
I hope it is not necessary to lower Warrior or Mage regarding the amount of runes for Skill deveopment... just Paladin.

The crash bug in Sprudne with an Unicorn hero: I checked the army in the editor, it is just normal units and a hero. I haven't heard anyone else have this crash. Do you also have the Orcs on the Marsh, I think that is needed.

Bug with assembling 4 pieces for Rage item: I tested, yes, strange, it doesn't work, but haven't touched it. Will get back on this... when assembling I got a bow, and when dissambling the 'doll' I got a low level sword, strange...

So far, these are the changes for the next version 1.3 which I have already made:

- Higher Magic Skill removed from Paladin. Resurrection removed from Warrior.
- Difficulty settings: Lowered to 100% - 130% - 170% - 210% (was 100-140-190-250) since some spells and creatures have been nerfed.
- Fromlen (3rd island): A random guard at castle lowered in leadership. It is still randomized if it is here at all (30% chance)
- Fromlen: The ghostship has more random troops, still for free.

Spells:
- Magic Shackles: NO mass effect at level 3. Leadership 125-150-5000%. Mana 10-10-10. Crystal 3-6-8. Price lowered to 1500 (was 3000).

Creatures:
- Ingeneer: The increased 40% ranged damage in 1.21 now fixed so it actually works...
- All bears and Snakes/Swamp Snakes: 'Home ground' gives +1 Ini to Snakes but +1 Moral to Bears (a new feature in 1.21).
- Paladin: Prayer bug fixed, now undead/demons run away in fear as intended. Reload on Healing instead of 1 Charge.

[raknefne]

Paladin Skill Tree will be improved for version 1.3:

- Scouting: 2-2-3 Runes (was 2-3-3). Intellect 1-2-4 (was 1-2-3).

- Trophies: 1-2-4 Runes only (was 5-5-5 and a Magic Rune each level). Gold 5% - 15% - 30%

- Prayer: 6-10-14 Runes (was 10-12-14). Krit 4-9-15% (was 3-7-10%). Shifted with Diplomacy location in skill tree.

- Learning: 7-11-15 Runes (was 11-11-11). Experience 5-15-25% (was 10-15-20%). Intellect 1-2-4 (was 1-2-3).

- Adrenalin: 6-7-8 Runes besides 1 Might Rune (was 7-8-9). In addition, gives +1 Speed/Initiative permanent to: Level 1 units / Level 1-2 units / Level 1-3 units.

- Neatness: 6-7-8 Runes (was 7-9-11).

- Persuation: ????????? Perhaps 1-3-6% Phys. Res.

- Diplomacy: 5-6-7 Mind Runes besides Might Runes (was 8-8-8 or so). 8-14-20% (was 8-12-16%). Will also give Defense to Level 1-3 units: 2-6-10 Defense.

- Ressurection: 8-10-12 Runes (was 12-14-16!)

- Dragon Voice: 6-8-14 Runes besides other (was 9-10-11).


Dragon Voice, Diplomacy, Adrenaline, Prayer, Power of Spirit will all effect for instance summoning like Demon Portal (partly) or Animal Call since they stand stronger. I assume Dragon Voice's moral also effect summonings?


COMMENTS???

[Sirlancelot]

Hmm. I would refrain from making such profound changes all of sudden. We removed Higher Magic because it could be overpowered and now are probably falling in the same mistake by simply going through other path.

I would rather go step by step, making small changes, testing them and then reflecting about the overall feel.

GhoulKing said he enjoyed the challenge, just reported that it should be informed (in the readme, I guess), that every level of difficulty is not one but two levels harder than vanilla.

The Paladin skill tree. Before making any change, I'd count the total quantity of runes cost of the complete Paladin skills tree, and get assured that this number is still the same at the end of the modifications. That way should be easier to keep balance.

Prayer runes price could be 6-10-14, like you said. The first tier the cheapest so the player who is not interested at all in the skill because thinks is superflous can almost skip it.

Diplomacy. I like the changes WotN introduced for it:

Diplomacy

If an enemy force contains identical unit types to the Hero's current army, up to 3% of the matching enemies will join the player's stacks. This cannot take the player over their Leadership. Additionally, for units the player cannot recruit in this way, 4% of the army deserts, reducing the stack size the player faces, without any penalty to Experience or the like.
2
9

If an enemy force contains identical unit types to the Hero's current army, up to 8% of the matching enemies will join the player's stacks. This cannot take the player over their Leadership. Additionally, for units the player cannot recruit in this way, 8% of the army deserts, reducing the stack size the player faces, without any penalty to Experience or the like.
2
8

If an enemy force contains identical unit types to the Hero's current army, up to 12% of the matching enemies will join the player's stacks. This cannot take the player over their Leadership. Additionally, for units the player cannot recruit in this way, 12% of the army deserts, reducing the stack size the player faces, without any penalty to Experience or the like.
2
7

https://www.vigaroe.com/2018/10/warr...is-part-2.html

I'd avoid/not so keen about raising resistances... as I stated some messages ago, the game has not a cap at 75-80%, just at the outrageous 95%, which is basically the same like not having a cap at all.

- Scouting: 2-2-3 Runes (was 2-3-3). Intellect 1-2-4 (was 1-2-3)

Reasonable and interesting change, because the third level of the skill was previously a bit meh. I'd keep the runes price intact, however. It's an essential skill.

Trophies: 2-2-3 Runes only (was 5-5-5 and a Magic Rune each level)

I disagree a bit with GhoulKing here. I'm level 20 at my Paladin playthrough and money is not a problem/issue. Perhaps it was at the beggining, but honestly never bother me or felt wrong.

And again, this is a relevant skill (not essential, but important nevertheless), thus I'd rather keep vanilla runes cost, or lowered them just a little.

Learning: 7-11-15 Runes (was 11-11-11). Experience 5-15-25% (was 10-15-20%). Intellect 1-2-4 (was 1-2-3)

Good approach. However... lowering the first tiers runes cost so much could have the effect of making the paladin skills tree so cheap for all classes, that it would preferable to be a warrior or a mage.

- Adrenalin: In addition, gives +1 Speed/Initiative permanent to: Level 1 units / Level 1-2 units / Level 1-3 units.

Sounds tempting, but maybe a bit out of scope. How about just +1 to speed? There're already other skills that raise Initiative.

Neatness: 6-7-8 Runes (was 7-9-11)

Not sure about this. In principle, I think it's a very relevant and advantageous skill and would keep its runes cost intact. Otherwise would make Alchemy even less important than it is already.

Ressurection: 8-10-12 Runes (was 12-14-16! That's 42 in all)

Absolutely disagree. Ressurection is the best paladin skill and should keep its runes cost intact.

In fact, I would raise the third layer of the skill runes cost up to 18 or more. You want to make Holy Armor and other skills obsolete and expendable? Pay for it.

Prayer could be improved with +5 att/def to all level 1-3 when maxed

Good approach, but probably a bit excessive. How about +3?

These are my first impressions after reading your last post.

[Sirlancelot]

In this web you can easily count the amount of runes that would cost changing all the skills that we're talking about:

https://www.celestialheavens.com/kingsbounty/hs-en.htm

Considering that in order to modify them you need to also pay for other skills, the numbers I get, are:

20 Might runes.
189 Mind runes.
16 Magic runes.

[raknefne]

Ok, thx for inputs. Regarding diplomacy, I don't have the capability to change so player get exp for deserting/joining troops, still I never developed it in WotN.
I will hold more back then with the skills. Uploading v1.3 later.

[raknefne]

Trent version 1.3 released for download (see first post)
======================================

- Warrior Hero: Resurrection removed.
- Paladin Hero: Higher Magic Skill removed and the skill tree improved.
- Difficulty settings: Lowered to 100% - 130% - 170% - 210% (was 100-140-190-250) since some spells and creatures have been nerfed.
- Fromlen (3rd island): A random guard at castle lowered in leadership and moved to another location in Fromlen, still random if it appears.
- Fromlen: The ghostship has more random troops, still for free.
- Item bug: The 4 rage items from 'Orcs on the Marsh' that can be mixed to a new item 'Dragon Toy' didn't work properly. I had to remove the option to sample the 4 items, no clue how to repair, same code as in vanilla.
- Item; Dragon Toy: Can now be found, not crafted: Price 40.000, Level 4, Rage 8, Petattack 10%
- Item 'Helm of Antenna', former part of 'Dragon Toy': Price lowered and the Initiative penalty for level 3-5 removed.

Spells:
- Magic Shackles: NO mass effect at level 3. Leadership 125-150-5000%. Mana 10-10-10. Crystal 3-6-8. Price lowered to 1500 (was 3000).

Creatures:
- Ingeneer: The increased 40% ranged damage in 1.21 now fixed so it actually works...
- All bears and Snakes/Swamp Snakes: 'Home ground' gives +1 Ini to Snakes but +1 Moral to Bears (a new feature in 1.21).
- Paladin: Prayer bug fixed, now undead/demons run away in fear as intended. Reload on Healing instead of 1 Charge.

Mind Skill Tree has been changed a bit:
- Scouting: Intellect 0-2-4 (was 1-2-3).
- Trophies: 2-4-6 Mind Runes (was 5-5-5 and a Magic Rune each level). Gold 5%-15%-30%
- Prayer: 6-12-16 Mind Runes (was 10-12-14). Krit 3-7-12% (was 3-7-10%). Shifted with Diplomacy location in skill tree.
- Learning: 7-14-16 Mind Runes (was 11-11-11). Experience 5-14-22% (was 10-15-20%). Intellect 0-2-4 (was 1-2-3).
- Adrenalin: 6-7-11 Mind Runes (was 7-8-9). In addition, gives +1 Speed Level 1 units / +1 Speed Level 1-2 units / +1 Speed & Initiative Level 1-3 units.
- Persuation: When maxed, +1 Moral all including Neutrals and Droids (was only for Demons & Lizardmen at level 3). Costs 2 extra Mind Runes for Level 3.
- Diplomacy: 6-7-8 Mind Runes (was 8-8-8 or so). 5-10-15% (was 8-12-16%). Now gives Defense to Level 1-3 units: 2-6-10 Defense.
- Spirit of Power: 6-8-10 Mind Runes (was 8,8,8 ), so total the same amount of runes.
- Voice Dragon: 10-11-11 Mind Runes (was 9-10-11).
- Resurrection: Costs 2 extra Mind Runes for Level 3.


Number of Rune changes in v1.3 if all is maxed in the Mind Tree compared to vanilla:
Might: 0
Mind : 0 (Trophies, Diplomacy & Prayer are cheaper. Resurrection, Learning, Voice of the Dragon & Persuation are more expensive).
Magic: -2 (Trophies)
The following skills are stronger than vanilla: Scouting, Learning, Prayer, Adrenalin, Persuation, Diplomacy.
Generally the first level is cheaper than vanilla but with a smaller bonus.

Examples from the skill enhancements:
Call of Nature and Demon Portal will have stronger units if you upgrade Prayer, Adrenalin or Diplomacy with increased Crit, Defense, Speed and Initiative.
With Maxed Prayer, Persuation and Level 2 Voice of the Dragon a Polar bear will have +3 Morale which gives 59% Crit instead of 30% Crit Chance. Btw, moral does not effect summonings.

[Ghoul King]

The crash in question affects battlegroups at random, it's not something about the unicorn Hero in particular. It's just that if a battlegroup is affected by the crash, it's always affected by it -I've got a Mage run that hasn't been able to upgrade a Dress because the second-to-last enemy triggers the crash when they finish their move, and I've tried repeatedly over the course of the run. (Changing up my army, doing different initial moves, etc) The only thing I haven't had the chance to test yet is if I could bypass the crash by killing the problem unit and/or skipping its turn.

I do like the idea of Adrenaline bolstering lower-Level units. Scarface doing so is one of the more interesting aspects of Trent Wars, as while Level 5 units tend to be surprisingly lackluster aside that point higher Level units are normally more desirable for a variety of reasons, and there's rarely adequate incentives to try out lower-Level units. Overall the current list of Mind tree changes is good -making base ranks cheaper so it's easier to reach key Skills at all helps a lot.

[Sirlancelot]

Congratulations for the new release!

I like most of the changes, however I'm unsure about how the modifications to the overall difficulty will affect the experience. And the Diplomacy bonuses seem too generous. I will, however, trust your expertise. You're the mod creator, so you know your mod better than any of us.

If I install this version instead of my current one, how the overall difficulty of Hard will be? 170% or 190%? I was enjoying the game with 190%...
And how the mind skill tree will look? Updated? Or will I need to start a new game to see the changes?

Finally, how can I increase the overall difficulty of item upgrades? I prefer vanilla difficulty or 30% easier at most. In general I don't want to be able to upgrade low level items to level 4 and level 5 ones at low levels just because the game is shorter. I can be wrong, but sounds very OP.