New planes requests (from other threads/please pin it)

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by RPS69

I used to research each scenery, I used to build missions with apropriate aircraft, and always complained about the lack of some models in particular.

Agreed. There are certain maps and campaigns which just can't be done correctly without adding a number of "obscure" units to the game. That is, units which were used during a few campaigns and no place else.

Mostly, they concern early war scenarios. Off the top of my head "obscure" aircraft which would be needed for a particular theater are:

China 1939-41: Ki-10 "Perry", Ki-30 "Ann," Ki-32 "Mary", Ki-51 "Sonia," A4N, B4Y "Jean", B5N1 "Kate," G3M1 "Nell". Curtiss A-12 Shrike, Curtiss Hawk III, Curtiss Hawk 75M, Dewoitine D.510, Martin B-10 (139WC).

Poland 1939: PZL P.7, PZL.23 Karas, PZL.37 Los. BF-109D-1, Bf-109D-3, Do.17Z, He-111P, Hs.126.

France 1939-40: Br. 693 series, Curtiss Hawk H75A-1, D.520 series, DB-7B-3, F.220, Late' 298 series, LN.401 series, LeO.45 series, Glen Martin 167F, MB.150 series, MB.200 series, MS.406 series, Potez 630 series. Battle Mk. I, Lysander Mk. I. Bf-109E-1, DFS 230 glider, Do.17Z, Hs.126.

Battle of Britain 1940: Bf-109E-1, Do.17Z, He.115 series. Anson series, Defiant Mk. I, Hampden Mk.I, Hudson Mk. I, Oxford Mk.I, Sea Otter Mk.II, Spitfire Mk. I, Sunderland Mk.I.

North Africa/Mediterranean 1940-43: Bf-110D & E series, He-115 series. Ba.64, Br.20, CANT Z.501, Cr.32 (and probably other Italian types). Albacore series, Barracuda series, Baltimore series, Bombay Mk. I, Boston Mk. I, II, III, & IIIA, Havoc Mk. III, Liberator Mk. II/LB-30, Hurricane Mk. IID & IV, Kittyhawk Mk. II, IIA, & III, Lysander Mk. I, Maryland series, Mitchell Mk. I, Sea Gladiator series, Sea Hurricane series, Sea Otter Mk. II. B-25B Mitchell, P-38E, F, G & H models, P-40 F, G, K, L, & N models.

Battle for Greece 1941: PZL P.24F & G, Breguet 19. Ba.64, Br.20, CANT Z.501, Cr.32 series (and probably others).

Southwest Pacific (i.e., Malaysia, Philippines, Dutch East Indies, Australia) 1941-42: Ki-30 "Ann," Ki-32 "Mary", Ki-51 "Sonia," D3A1 Model 22 & D3A2 "Val," G3M2 "Nell", H6K "Mavis". Buffalo Mk. I Field Mod., Mohawk series, Wirraway series, Hudson series. Curtiss H75A-7, Martin B-10B and 139WH, Dornier Do.24. Beech 18, Consolidated LB-30, Consolidated PBY series, P-26A, P-35A, P-38E, F & G models.

CBI 1942-45: Ki-32 "Mary", Ki-51 "Sonia," Ki-44 "Tojo" series. Hurricane Mk. IID & IV, Vengeance series. B-25B, C-46 Commando, P-43A, P-40 F, G, K, L & N models.

SW Pacific 1943-45: As for 1941-42, but also Commonwealth Boomerang, Vultee Vengeance, B-26A, P-47C-10, P-38 G & H series.

Romania: He-112, JRS-79, PZL P.24E & F.

Hungary: Ca.309, MAGAV Heja (Re.2000 variant), Me-210, WM-21 Sólyom

[sniperton]

Hungary had one of the weakest and smallest air forces among minor nations. Early-war planeset:

CR-32quater (76), CR-42 (60), Re.2000 (70);
Ju 86K-2 (66), Ca.135bis (36);
He-46E-2 (36), He-70K (18 ), WM-21 (altogether 128 until 1942);

Apart from these types used 'in numbers', there were some other obscure types in service, but typically with less than 6 planes each: Fw-58, Ca.101/3m, SM-75, FIAT G.12, He-111P, Do-215B-4, Ar-96.

Later in the war (after 1942) most of them were replaced with second-hand German equipment. (The licence-built Re.2000 version (200 built after 1942) was mainly used in second-line home defence.) The only flavour of the later-war Hungarian planeset was the home-manufactured Me-210Ca-1, which proved to be quite effective. But I think it was the same as with the Finnish: when you learnt surviving in a crap plane, you feel like a god in a mediocre one...

[dimlee]

Yer-2 for Eastern Front.... Ar-2 as well...
Ah, wait, are we going in another circle again and again?

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by dimlee

Yer-2 for Eastern Front.... Ar-2 as well...
Ah, wait, are we going in another circle again and again?

The Soviet "rare birds" which aren't in the game, but which were produced in decent numbers, and which saw some degree of combat action are: Antonov A-7, Be-4, Shavrov Sh-2, Scherbabov Shche-2, Yak-2, Yak-4, Yak-6, UT-1

[Sita]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Antonov A-7, Be-4, Shavrov Sh-2, Scherbabov Shche-2, Yak-2, Yak-4, Yak-6, UT-1

we don't have good reffs for more famous plane like Su2 and others ...

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Sita

we don't have good reffs for more famous plane like Su2 and others ...

Isn't there a surviving Su-2 at the Museum of the Great Patriotic War, or, is it a replica?

If it's real, that would make it easier to get pictures of the cockpit and turret interior.

Your point about not having good reference materials is extremely important, and something most players forget.

It's not enough to just have a simple 3-view drawing, an artist's profile of the camouflage scheme, general data on dimensions, armament, and flight performance, and a few anecdotal pilot's reports.

Ideally, you want factory blueprints, pilot and mechanics manuals, plenty of flight testing reports with performance graphs, and access to a surviving example of the aircraft in factory-fresh condition.

It's even better if the flight test reports cover testing of the first production machines and tests of captured aircraft (likely to be in poorer shape and more typical of production aircraft in the field), not just tests of the prototype.

For rare aircraft - particularly early war aircraft - some or all of this data is missing. There are no surviving aircraft because they all got destroyed or were recycled to make new aircraft. Manuals and test reports got lost or were destroyed during the war or soon after.

The manufacturer of the aircraft has probably been out of business for 70 years, so nobody remembers how the plane was made, and production records and blueprints were lost long ago.

Aircrew who flew the obscure type were never very common to begin with, and many died during the war. In any case, they're all going to be dead now, and because they flew an obscure aircraft type, it's very likely that nobody thought to interview them about that plane while they were alive.

All that means that someone trying to model an obscure plane has to fill in the gaps himself and make some guesses about actual flight performance. It helps if you have an advanced degree in aeronautical engineering.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by sniperton

Hungary had one of the weakest and smallest air forces among minor nations.

Rivaled only by Bulgaria and Yugoslavia, which aren't even in the game!

Good write-up of what it would take to get a complete Hungarian order of battle.

Currently, we have the Bf-109, Bf-110, CR-42, FW-189, FW-190, He-111, Me-210, and Re.2000. That's a good selection of aircraft for a minor air force, but there's nothing there that you can't get by flying for the Luftwaffe or Regia Aeronautica. It would be fun and interesting if there was at least one "rare bird" which was unique to the Hungarian Air Force.

While it's utterly ridiculous to include it in the game, I've always had a soft spot for the WM.23 Ezust Nyil. Logically, it would make more sense to add the WM.21 Solyom or the Me-210C.

[sniperton]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Good write-up of what it would take to get a complete Hungarian order of battle.

For me it doesn't seem reasonable to have such a complete OOB. One obsolate plane is not much different than the other, and only those are worth the effort which were used in quantities by other nations as well (e.g. Cr-32, also used by Italy in the ground attack role). Having a WM-21 doesn't make much sense for me, all the more so as Hungarian aircrew preferred the He-46 to it. Obsolate bombers are more reasonable to have (as AI-only planes), for they remained in service for long as transports.

[iMattheush]

What do you think about jets like Gloster Meteor or even Republic XP-84 prototype? Is it possible to add some 1946-era planes? Meteor is even from '44 (f.3) or '45 (f.4)... Meteor can be used in intercepting v-1/ar-234 missions

[gaunt1]

No way, especially prototypes. Maybe after planes like Typhoon, Spit XIV, Tu-2, Ju-88C6, Me-410, or Ki-44 are added. These are far more important.