4.13 development update discussion and feedback

[flyer138]

Is there a way to increase planes in wings from 4 to 8 or even 12..16?

With larger wings, bigger formations would be possible and easier to craft.

Currently, the mission builder options are very rich but it is still very cumbersome to create missions with large formations that should stay together.
An increased wing size would help to keep aircraft together.

In my opinion, missions with the many wings needed for large formations are difficult to create and handle with the tiny wing size of 4. Even 16 planes begin to cause some trouble as there are already 4 wings doing essentially the same (rout or target).

Maybe the larger wing size should only be used for bombers or some kind of formations like the V, echelons or lines / columns.

I am not sure if this has already been raised.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by flyer138

Is there a way to increase planes in wings from 4 to 8 or even 12..16?

The possibility of increasing the size of a single formation to 16 would be welcome since that would allow even the largest squadrons to be assigned to a single unit.

What would be really helpful in the FMB is if the mission builder had the option of specifying the number of flights within a formation and then the formation of each flight.

For example, if you just want 12 planes in one big echelon, you specify "1" for the number of flights, and then "echelon left" for flight formation.

But, if you wanted 12 planes in four flights of 3 "vics" - typical of many bomber squadrons, you specify "4" for the number of flights then specify that each flight takes a "Vee" formation.

Given enough formation options, you could model just about any formation used.

Obvously, a graphical user interface where you can use a mouse to set spacing, formation, etc. for an entire squadron would be most flexible, but I'm not sure that poor old IL2's interface is up to the task.

Originally Posted by flyer138

An increased wing size would help to keep aircraft together.

To keep different squadrons together, there should be a command in the FMB, for "hold formation with X".

Possibly, the list of player commands could include an option that allows a sufficiently high-ranking pilot to command other squadrons to join his squadron and follow his orders.

[Music]

I was just thinking it would be nice if we could have the ability to attach the home base to a formation of bombers, so when you respawn on a server like setting, you are spawning near enough to them to protect, not spending 5 min trying to catch up to them, all the while watching them get picked off by enemy fighters in the distance.

It would also be good for target practice, though you'd be shooting down friendlies, (just turn off their chute and there will be no witnesses).

Cheers!

**edit** Should be in "beyond 4.13" thread

[dimlee]

Originally Posted by flyer138

Is there a way to increase planes in wings from 4 to 8 or even 12..16?

With larger wings, bigger formations would be possible and easier to craft.

Currently, the mission builder options are very rich but it is still very cumbersome to create missions with large formations that should stay together.
An increased wing size would help to keep aircraft together.

In my opinion, missions with the many wings needed for large formations are difficult to create and handle with the tiny wing size of 4. Even 16 planes begin to cause some trouble as there are already 4 wings doing essentially the same (rout or target).

Maybe the larger wing size should only be used for bombers or some kind of formations like the V, echelons or lines / columns.

I am not sure if this has already been raised.

Well, the question is: how this larger wings will fly...
I do some missions occasonally (just for own usage) and keep wing size of 3, not more. Because wings of 4 behave crazy sometimes, planes collide too often.

[RPS69]

Originally Posted by dimlee

Well, the question is: how this larger wings will fly...
I do some missions occasonally (just for own usage) and keep wing size of 3, not more. Because wings of 4 behave crazy sometimes, planes collide too often.

Actually, only fighters were flown by fours.
Bombers wings were a three plane formation.

I generate a three bomber wing, and then edit the mis file, and copy paste the flight, doing some minor changes in height, X, and Y. I ussualyy rerun the mission once or twice just to check htat they don´t colide between themselves while reaching WP's.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by RPS69

Actually, only fighters were flown by fours.
Bombers wings were a three plane formation.

There should be an option to have either 1, 2 or 3 plane "default" formations within the FMB, and possibly even the QMB.

From there, you could choose squadron or section formation based on base formation.

1-plane base formations: echelon left or right, line abreast, line astern, "loose deuce" ("rotte"), Vee ("Kette"), loose/modified Vee, gaggle (no formation).

2-plane base formations: echelon left or right, line abreast, line astern, "loose deuce" ("rotte").

3-plane base formations: Vee ("kette"), loose Vee/modified V, echelon left or right, line abreast, line astern, Shotei (rear 2 planes weaving behind leader), "Section and Stinger left" (2 plane line abreast, 1 plane stepped back and to the left and above), "Section and Stinger right".

Division/Squadron formations based on 2 plane sections: echelon left or right ("rotte"), "finger four" ("schwarm"), line abreast, line astern, diamond, square.

Division/Squadron formations based on 3 plane sections: echelon left or right, line abreast, line astern, diamond.

Options:

Step plane/section/division up (5 m increments)
Step plane/section/division down (5 m increments)
Step plane/section/division forward (5 m increments)
Step plane/section/division back (5 m increments),
Set plane/section/division as weaver - i.e., will weave back and forth at rear of formation to improve chances of spotting enemy AC).
Maneuver as: Plane/Section/Division/Squadron (i.e., planes will hold formation with formation leader as best they can rather than maneuvering on their own).
Fluid Fighter Tactics: Y/N (If this option is checked fighters within a section or division will use "fluid pair" or "fluid four" tactics, taking turns in attacking and switching lead as necessary.)

[Sita]

del ...

[stugumby]

Ever notice the low level attack behavior of the A20 series? When dropping regular bombs or para frags the ideal solution is to drop and get out quickly,no return to strafe etc. unfortunately both A20C,G drop and sometimes climb while dropping parafrags and then go every which way and return to strafe until all target destroyed or they get shot down. I think that the fm for these needs tweaked to reflect a more historical drop and keep going waypoint/ordnance driven fm. Also there is no way to set ai bomb fusing, try a 200/400 meter low level bomb run with b25C and watch your ai flights blow themselves up over enemy airfields and shipping. Perhaps a use of torpedo plane fm could be triggered by ordnance selected etc. parafrags drop puts planes into line astern and they have to climb to avoid plane in fronts bombs, or if using waypoint normfly put the formation to finger four or line abreast a waypoint before thru a waypoint after target. Also needed are A20C and B25C gunships for the PNG maps. For ground objects camouflaged junks and barges and Maru ships in varying paint schemes, last,lci, hospital ships etc. thanks TD for reading and for all you've done for us.

[Marabekm]

Originally Posted by stugumby

Ever notice the low level attack behavior of the A20 series? When dropping regular bombs or para frags the ideal solution is to drop and get out quickly,no return to strafe etc. unfortunately both A20C,G drop and sometimes climb while dropping parafrags and then go every which way and return to strafe until all target destroyed or they get shot down.

TBF's do the same thing. They will drop bombs, and get good hits, but then turn around and start strafing random targets until all are destroyed by enemy AAA.

[sniperton]

Originally Posted by stugumby

Ever notice the low level attack behavior of the A20 series? When dropping regular bombs or para frags the ideal solution is to drop and get out quickly,no return to strafe etc.

Even more annoying is when light bombers try to strafe with LMGs. The result is predictable...