TBF Avenger and other planes

[RPS69]

Put your efforts on doing a better interface to the SEOW engine, and play to games in one.
It is mainly intended to play online, but if you combine it with the DCG for a single player, it will be a child's dream.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Furio

Imagine a series of menus in which you choose:
Red, Blue (and Green, according to Pursuivant).

This option already exists for multiplayer, where you can have any number of teams. All that is needed is to transfer the code over to the QMB, FMB and campaign engines.

Note that I chose "green" as the third option because it corresponds to the color used for a third force on US military maps. (The US is blue, opposing forces are red.) Other countries do things differently.

Furio's idea is a good one, but to make IL2 "cross cultural" and truly a "sandbox sim" a better way for the menus to work might be:

1) Choose the number of forces
2) Choose the color of each force
3) Choose the nationality for each force - different forces can have the same nationality to simulate civil war scenarios. Alternate national insignia would be needed. You should also have the option of adding nations rather than choosing from the standard list.
4) Choose whether a particular force is allied, hostile or neutral with respect to every other force present.

Neutral = Will turn into an enemy if attacked, but won't attack otherwise.

For example,

1933 - Chinese Nationalists vs. Chinese Communists vs. Beiyang Army (a warlord's private army) vs. Japanese Army Air Force. 4 sides. All are hostile to each other. Colors chosen for each side are arbitrary.

1945 - US vs. Soviet vs. Luftwaffe - US = Blue, Soviet = Red, Luftwaffe = Black. US & Soviet are hostile to Luftwaffe and vice-versa. US and Soviet are Neutral.

Alternate 1946 - German Civil War. US + UK + France + Co-Belligerent Luftwaffe vs. Soviets + Polish People's Liberation Air Force + German People's Liberation Air Force with Hungarians and Romanians being neutral with respect to everyone else and to each other. So, 4 "sides" and 9 colors.

Obviously, for most scenarios it's still going to be "red vs. blue"

Originally Posted by Furio

Map, or maps, in order of appearance.
Year of start, year of end.
Planeset for each nation, and for each year.
Defined or undefined outcome (who will win the war).
Pilot career for each year, in such a way that player can start as fighter pilot and then switch to bomber, or vice-versa.
Difficulty level.
Experience of AI pilots (% of rookies, veterans, aces) for each nation and year.
Then, save your dynamic campaign.
Hit the fly button.

This part looks really good.

I'm wondering if it might work well as a stand alone project, similar to what Lowengrin did with his Dynamic Campaign Generator.

People could define campaign parameters - nationalities involved, maps, planesets, etc. and share them.

[sniperton]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

I'm wondering if it might work well as a stand alone project, similar to what Lowengrin did with his Dynamic Campaign Generator.

Sure it could work, the only question is who is able and willing to do it. Both DCG and DGEN-mod, as we have them now, are the result of many years of work.

[KG26_Alpha]

You could use the chat box at his website and ask if its possible to make the addition of swapping sides and other tweaks.


http://www.lowengrin.com/content.php?article.11

Or at the forum requests area

http://forum.jg1.org/forum/67-dcg-feature-requests/

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

A more easily created alternate history campaign could occur if the Nazis had been deposed in 1942 to 1944, resulting in a German Civil War. The USSR invades Eastern Germany to "keep order," with some German military units fighting alongside them. The US and UK then occupy Western Germany with other German military units fighting alongside them, and war breaks out in Central Germany roughly along the line of the Cold War "Iron Curtain."

Great gaming opportunities, but horrifying to contemplate as real life scenarios.

Real good starting point could have been Stauffenbergs assasination attempt. Let it succeed. Germany still strong enough to be a pain, maybe even a threat. War in the Pacific going better, but no end at the horizon. Germany then is easiest to neutralise if it becomes an ally. German high command would see the opportunity to end a war going South - and maybe too eager to get rid of the political leaders. Then either Soviets see an opportunity, or Germany and Allies do (Also some time could pass with an uneasy peace).

Another scenario could have been that Roosevelt does live a lot longer. He does not believe Joe Stalins lies, listens to Churchill - and the Allies fall apart earlier in the war. Then German forces fight with the US+Brits+French+Others. Stalin and The Emperor, now both with the back to the wall join in together. Bonus: Almost any late war plane we have can fly for one or the other side. And on nearly any map we have.

[ElAurens]

Some time ago I made a fantasy alternative history DF mission along some of the lines you gents are talking about.

Here is the description I did for it...

Za Tzarista!
It is now early 1947. Imperial Japan has been knocked out of the war and is in shambles. But the real shocker took place after the new Kaiser took over from the National Socialists in Germany, and the tragic accident at Alamagordo New Mexico, which effectively wiped out the US ability to manufacture atomic weapons after the initial bombing of Hiroshima. Germany was able to manufacture one "heavy water" bomb and succeeded in obliterating the Soviet capital of Moscow. With Stalin dead, central contol of the CCCP crumbled in days. During the chaos, German and Austro-Hungarian troops raced across Russia and now stand at the gates of Vladivostok. A heretofore unknown group of Russian Imperialists and Cossacks, secretly supported by the Kaiser, has consolidated power and re-established the Monarchy under Tzarista Anastasia Romanov. But in yet another bizzare turn of events, the Tzarista promptly declared war on the Kaiser in revenge for Germany's support of the Bolsheviks during the Russian Revolution. She, and the remnants of the Russian Army are holding out in the temporary capital of Vladivostok. President Truman, seeing a chance to totally wipe out Communism, diverted all troops currently in the Pacific into China and ended the Maoist Insurgency there. Now The US and Great Britain have recognized the new Russian government and are openly supporting it. It seems that World War One will now finally be fought to the end...

It's on the Manchuria map and has all the late war and paper napkin "wonder planes" and several mod additions from HSFX.

[sniperton]

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

You could use the chat box at his website and ask if its possible to make the addition of swapping sides and other tweaks.

The question is not whether Paul is able to make such an addition. He is, provided you can offer him a job. The question is whether Il2 can handle a player swapping sides.

[Derda508]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

Here is the description I did for it...

OMG! That sounds like real fun!
Please, were can I get it?

[Furio]

Technical questions apart, it’s undeniable that Il2 has a strong potential for what if and alternate history scenarios, and it’s easy to understand why. The game has an unequalled plane set, a rich ground and surface objects inventory, and a varied choice of maps. Yes, it would require tweaking in campaigns, but not much more. Perhaps some new skins and, if required, new national markings.

With a little ingenuity, minor or experimental types could be put to good use. Then, it would be just a matter of creativity, and El’s example, some posts above, shows well what can be achieved. Surely it could be a lot of fun and, perhaps, perhaps, it could have some commercial value.

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by sniperton

The question is not whether Paul is able to make such an addition. He is, provided you can offer him a job. The question is whether Il2 can handle a player swapping sides.

Sure hope it can be made to do just that. There is so much opportunity in betrayal - even the historical ones. Also players could make their own choices, and according to that the story continues.

Thinking a little further a really capable mission generator could use players results to generate different missions. And even good very old Wing Commander offered that - though its different for an all scripted missions game.