TBF Avenger and other planes

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Buster_Dee

I think we were still in that phase of "almost" listening to British war experience, while they were just getting used to letting us find out some things for ourselves.

I'd say that the major nation that get shortest shrift in IL2 is the UK.

There are many major British plane, tank and vehicle types that aren't represented, and the major theaters where the British fought (mostly) don't have maps. Many of the British planes chosen to be in IL2 were only because they were used on the Eastern Front. If it wasn't for Finland, we'd have no early war British planes at all!

Admittedly, IL2 was designed from a Russian point of view and was a healthy correction to all the Battle of Britain and "U.S.-conquers the world" sims, but I'd love to see a sim focused on the Mediterranean Theater from 1941-1943.

Plenty of air forces (Yugoslavia, Vichy France, Rhodesia, South Africa, Greece, Egypt and Canada in addition to the nations already in the game), many obscure battles, many obscure aircraft and vehicles to go along with the famous hardware, gorgeous terrain, often evenly matched forces - almost to the end.

[Furio]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

I'd say that the major nation that get shortest shrift in IL2 is the UK.

There are many major British plane, tank and vehicle types that aren't represented, and the major theaters where the British fought (mostly) don't have maps. Many of the British planes chosen to be in IL2 were only because they were used on the Eastern Front. If it wasn't for Finland, we'd have no early war British planes at all!

Admittedly, IL2 was designed from a Russian point of view and was a healthy correction to all the Battle of Britain and "U.S.-conquers the world" sims, but I'd love to see a sim focused on the Mediterranean Theater from 1941-1943.

Plenty of air forces (Yugoslavia, Vichy France, Rhodesia, South Africa, Greece, Egypt and Canada in addition to the nations already in the game), many obscure battles, many obscure aircraft and vehicles to go along with the famous hardware, gorgeous terrain, often evenly matched forces - almost to the end.

The list of British missing types is impressive. Most medium and all heavy bombers, all seaplanes, all transports. We have just one Mosquito and one Beaufighter models, but the Beau is the Australian variant. If I’m not mistaken, there is Tempest but no Typhoon, no ground attack Hurricanes (IId, IIe and IV), no Griffon Spitfires.
By comparison, Italian types are well represented, with a good choice of fighters and two out of three main bomber types. Regia Aeronautica just miss a transport (like the S82 Marsupiale, used also by Luftwaffe) and a seaplane (like the CANT Z506).

Looking at the British missing list I feel mixed emotions. The dreamer drools thinking at all those new types. The realist thinks that such dream is too good to be true and would be better to concentrate energies on more reachable goals.

[gaunt1]

B-25C/D (same) was also used by the british (Mitchell Mk.II), and in significant numbers. I think this is the most reachable goal for a flyable british bomber.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by gaunt1

B-25C/D (same) was also used by the British (Mitchell Mk.II), and in significant numbers. I think this is the most reachable goal for a flyable british bomber.

True. Although the A-20C was also used in limited numbers by the UK.

Another conversion of an existing plane in the game would be to convert the A-20C to the Havoc III, or even the DB-7/Boston I. As an AI plane, you wouldn't even need different crew stations - just different ordinance and guns.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Furio

If I’m not mistaken, there is Tempest but no Typhoon, no ground attack Hurricanes (IId, IIe and IV), no Griffon Spitfires.

Correct on almost all counts, although I think that the Mk.IId Hurricane is in the game.

Originally Posted by Furio

By comparison, Italian types are well represented, with a good choice of fighters and two out of three main bomber types. Regia Aeronautica just miss a transport (like the S82 Marsupiale, used also by Luftwaffe) and a seaplane (like the CANT Z506).

Yes, but there are some frustrating choices for the flyable Italian planes.

A flyable Re.2000/MAGAV Heja would make for a more interesting career as a Hungarian fighter pilot (you start off with the Cr.42 - which sucks on the Eastern Front after 1941, then later transition to the Bf-109G).

A flyable Fiat G.55 would just be fun. We don't exactly need it since we have a flyable MC.205 and the G.55 wasn't built in any great numbers, but if you're a fighter geek, then not having it flyable is like being a kid with his nose pressed up against the candy store window. Same for the Re.2000 and Re.2002.

Originally Posted by Furio

Looking at the British missing list I feel mixed emotions. The dreamer drools thinking at all those new types. The realist thinks that such dream is too good to be true and would be better to concentrate energies on more reachable goals.

Yep. The good news is that modeling a single-engined AI plane isn't THAT hard, if you've got the basic artist skills. Maybe some modder will hear our prayers.

[Furio]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

A flyable Re.2000/MAGAV Heja would make for a more interesting career as a Hungarian fighter pilot (you start off with the Cr.42 - which sucks on the Eastern Front after 1941, then later transition to the Bf-109G).

If I’m not mistaken, the Italian built Re2000 was the Hèja I, and could already be employed in a Hungarian pilot career. For the Hèja II, a different engine and cowling is almost all is needed, performances being similar.

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

A flyable Fiat G.55 would just be fun. We don't exactly need it since we have a flyable MC.205 and the G.55 wasn't built in any great numbers, but if you're a fighter geek, then not having it flyable is like being a kid with his nose pressed up against the candy store window. Same for the Re.2000 and Re.2002.

That’s a typo for the 2001, I suppose… In that case, the Re2001 was built in small numbers (Wiki says 237) and had rather unspectacular performances. The Re2002 was a ground attack variant, reverting to radial engine. It was a sort of “Mini-Sky raider” with low performances and light armament. It was noteworthy mainly for being in operational service on both sides at the same time, being flown by both Luftwaffe and Italian Co-Belligerent Air Force.

The one really outstanding Reggiane was the 2005, but only 32 were built, briefly used against allied bombers. Two B24 shot down is all what they obtained, but they revealed very good high altitude performances. An aesthetically pleasing machine, the Sagittario had – at last – a powerful armament, with two 12,7 mm SAFAT and three 20 mm MG151.

[sniperton]

Strange as it is, but the game engine and the general game design are more fitted to recreate either the 'forgotten battles' of WWII or the Jet Era than the large-scale air operations characteristic of the main battle fronts from the mid war. Even the Battle of Britain falls into this latter category.

Il-2 excels where air war was conducted with limited forces and in a skirmishing manner -- in Finland, or in the Med, or even in the early Pacific. BoB is still okay so far as we stick to Dowding's strategy of sending off only a handful of fighters against numerous invaders. But the escalating air war as conducted under Sholto Douglas, or Goering, or Harris, or Spaatz, was basically and fundamentally different.

As to new maps and (mostly British) planes, I would hark back to the forgotten battles concept and concentrate on the Northern convoy route to Murmansk, on the Med, on China, and on Australasia. And, of course, several old cockpits deserve a repaint at least.

[RPS69]

A friend tried to make us play a mission with 100 B17's.

He said he tested it off line and it worked fine.

It was going well, until we aproached the bombers and they opened fire upon us. This lagged things a lot, but when they dropped bombs, FPS go to 0.

Still, I won't blame the game, but internet quality, and CPU performance.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by sniperton

Strange as it is, but the game engine and the general game design are more fitted to recreate either the 'forgotten battles' of WWII or the Jet Era than the large-scale air operations characteristic of the main battle fronts from the mid war. Even the Battle of Britain falls into this latter category.

That just means that mission builders need to design their scenarios wisely, scaling big missions down proportionately or removing planes which aren't vital to the mission.

For example, if you're designing a fighter sweep where a flight of P-51s leave the bombers to attack a German airfield, you don't have to include the rest of the squadron and all the bombers cruising along at 25,000 feet.

Also, don't assume that just because there weren't that many planes in the theater that there couldn't be odd battles where there were dozens of planes in the sky. For example, one mission flown by the Flying Tigers saw 12 P-40s and 15 Buffaloes vs. 25 Ki-43 and 63 Ki-21! Or, during the bombing of Darwin, Australia, the Japanese put 188 aircraft into the air for the first raid!

Originally Posted by sniperton

As to new maps and (mostly British) planes, I would hark back to the forgotten battles concept and concentrate on the Northern convoy route to Murmansk, on the Med, on China, and on Australasia. And, of course, several old cockpits deserve a repaint at least.

My choice for "new" maps would be to have some big open sea maps for the Arctic Sea, North Atlantic and Mediterranean. All that would be needed is changing the .ini files for the Coral Sea map to alter longitude, latitude and air temperature, although perhaps water color could be altered to reflect dominant cloud conditions (i.e., steely gray for the North Atlantic in winter).

[sniperton]

Originally Posted by Furio

If I’m not mistaken, the Italian built Re2000 was the Hèja I, and could already be employed in a Hungarian pilot career. For the Hèja II, a different engine and cowling is almost all is needed, performances being similar.

Re.2000 was only produced for export (Sweden and Hungary). In Hungary, it was called Héja I and was used as a first line fighter in 1941/42. Later on, Hungary even manufactured it, as Héja II, under licence, but this second version saw service only in secondary roles (the superior Bf 109 F and G became available by then). The Re.2000 was indeed made available in the game as part of the Hungarian plane-set (Cr.42 > Re.2000 > Bf 109).

The funny thing is that the Italian manufacturer delivered the planes for Hungary with an English maintenance manual. It seems that the language of the enemy was the common language between the two allies of Germany.