Fixing Starting Daert / Bagyr

[MattCaspermeyer]

Unfortunately, I have no time to perform any changes to the mod due to all my time being consumed on another project.

I'm not sure if you're using your spells correctly for Daert.

Frost Grasp and Kamikaze are very effective against the spider stacks and don't forget your Evil Book.

The starting units will bring you to the Shelter without any issues (I played a couple of times on impossible so normal should be cake) as long as you grab all the crystals and get your Evil Book at least to level 1 (if you get it to level 2 even better).

Note that you may have to skip the big Spider stack in the Catacombs - no biggie you can always fight them later.

Evil Book is your key to winning most battles and any troops that you find dying easily against the shelter stacks stick them in your garrison / reserve. Check the no loss posts here for other information to help you with your strategy (I have quite a few in the impossible thread where I was able to do no loss Daert with the original game files if you got a certain spell from the Ore Cart by the Dwarf castle).

Good luck - keep trying!



/C\/C\

[jahes64]

Originally Posted by MattCaspermeyer

Unfortunately, I have no time to perform any changes to the mod due to all my time being consumed on another project.

I'm not sure if you're using your spells correctly for Daert.

Frost Grasp and Kamikaze are very effective against the spider stacks and don't forget your Evil Book.

The starting units will bring you to the Shelter without any issues (I played a couple of times on impossible so normal should be cake) as long as you grab all the crystals and get your Evil Book at least to level 1 (if you get it to level 2 even better).

Note that you may have to skip the big Spider stack in the Catacombs - no biggie you can always fight them later.

Evil Book is your key to winning most battles and any troops that you find dying easily against the shelter stacks stick them in your garrison / reserve. Check the no loss posts here for other information to help you with your strategy (I have quite a few in the impossible thread where I was able to do no loss Daert with the original game files if you got a certain spell from the Ore Cart by the Dwarf castle).

Good luck - keep trying!



/C\/C\

Hi bro

I hope you find some spare time and tune the vampire as well. Just play all 3 races to the point where you can refill your army (without you ignore any enemy stack on the way) and you will see how hard it is with the vampire

It would be better if we could defeat all enemies without having to scribe scrolls and waste crystals before we get Bibliophile lvl 3. After all for a mage magic crystal are very important.

When i was playing bagyr with second version of your fix, that strong spider stack was so easy, that at first i thought you have decreased their numbers to half the original, but end-fight window proved me wrong.

But the vampire is not half as strong, troop wise.
I found it impossible to even kill that strong spider stack with losses, since they were strong enough that they could kill my troops with one strike. With other races i had slight difficulty to deal with them.

Dwarf stack at shelter was easy (marked as very strong though)

Elf stack at shelter was not so hard because archers were so far away and faun's nightmare talent and werewolf's howl talent were useless because of undead's natural resistances.

But human stack was hard, what with healing of priests which was pretty effective with no distance penalty and poweful projectile of inquisitors and on top of that i had archers also guardsmen were evading blows all the time while my single black knight was doomed to suffer lots of damage. it took me a number of reloads to win it no loss, since i only had a single necromancer to deal with them and only in first 2 rounds which melee attackers were not close, i could use spells on ranged enemies, but i managed.

But last stack at whitehill is really invincible that i can't win it no loss. I even have diversion lvl 2 with 2 traps but can't beat 23 swordsman, 17 priests of light, 13 guardsman, another 16 priests and 14 bowman. Priest's unavoidable kills aside, per what you suggested I even used evil books as tank to absorb damage but melee units of the enemy are so strong that they kill the book with 2 blows and these evil books are pretty useless with their randomness. And Kamikaze is pretty hard to use, if i attach it to melee units, it blows when they reach my troops and if i attach them on healers and ranged units that doesn't help either, since it goes off pretty late and healer already healed my units by then.

I really think we should have maximum number of at least black knights and necromancers, female vampires should be replaced with ancient ones and normal vampires should be added too.

With orcs it was very easy distracting everyone with 2 totems every round and dealing damage at the same time with trap, catapults and hyena riders

And with demoness it was easy as well. I could throw two powerful fireballs at ranged units, hit them with fire arrows spell and then teleport demon to enemy side so he can hit other weak melee troops while i bring a weak ranged unit nearby and hit them with blood priestess in round 1 and after that i had nothing to worry about.

I think we shouldn't rely solely on the spell book and like other races we should get a decent army, strong enough to make us able to defeat map guardian of Monteville, so we can get there and refill our army.

With demoness we can go to Atrixus and get strong troops and refill our army right away.

And with orcs you can go Tristrem from catacombs, then exist (since you can't avoid the nearby troops), go to the port and take a ship to there and get your army filled.

But with undead we can't refill our army before we defeat that guardian.

[MattCaspermeyer]

Originally Posted by jahes64

Hi bro

I hope you find some spare time and tune the vampire as well. Just play all 3 races to the point where you can refill your army (without you ignore any enemy stack on the way) and you will see how hard it is with the vampire

I've played many times on impossible in the past - on normal difficulty you should have no problem with this mod.

Originally Posted by jahes64

It would be better if we could defeat all enemies without having to scribe scrolls and waste crystals before we get Bibliophile lvl 3. After all for a mage magic crystal are very important.

The whole point of modding Daert was that he was a mage. The amount of crystals you'll lose by not having Bibliophile is insignificant in the grand scheme of the game (although 1 level in it may help you get more spells with the limited crystals).

If you refuse to use this strategy, then I can't really help you since you're ignoring the class of your starting character.

A mage is supposed to defeat great armies with a small force. That is how I modded Daert and so if you don't use you're spell book to its fullest, you're not going to be able to do no loss with this mod.

That's the way it goes.

Originally Posted by jahes64

When i was playing bagyr with second version of your fix, that strong spider stack was so easy, that at first i thought you have decreased their numbers to half the original, but end-fight window proved me wrong.

But the vampire is not half as strong, troop wise.
I found it impossible to even kill that strong spider stack with losses, since they were strong enough that they could kill my troops with one strike. With other races i had slight difficulty to deal with them.

This stack is easily skipped if you can't beat it as I mentioned. I've also had to skip it with Bagyr on Impossible sometimes. There are many stacks in the game (not only at the start) that you need to return to. This is one that you try a couple of times and if you can't get them, then skip them.

Originally Posted by jahes64

Dwarf stack at shelter was easy (marked as very strong though)

Elf stack at shelter was not so hard because archers were so far away and faun's nightmare talent and werewolf's howl talent were useless because of undead's natural resistances.

But human stack was hard, what with healing of priests which was pretty effective with no distance penalty and poweful projectile of inquisitors and on top of that i had archers also guardsmen were evading blows all the time while my single black knight was doomed to suffer lots of damage. it took me a number of reloads to win it no loss, since i only had a single necromancer to deal with them and only in first 2 rounds which melee attackers were not close, i could use spells on ranged enemies, but i managed.

But last stack at whitehill is really invincible that i can't win it no loss. I even have diversion lvl 2 with 2 traps but can't beat 23 swordsman, 17 priests of light, 13 guardsman, another 16 priests and 14 bowman. Priest's unavoidable kills aside, per what you suggested I even used evil books as tank to absorb damage but melee units of the enemy are so strong that they kill the book with 2 blows and these evil books are pretty useless with their randomness. And Kamikaze is pretty hard to use, if i attach it to melee units, it blows when they reach my troops and if i attach them on healers and ranged units that doesn't help either, since it goes off pretty late and healer already healed my units by then.

Remember, you only have to kill 1 of the Whitehill stacks (not all 3). You find the easiest one and then you're done. You can return later to kill the other two. By the way, it used to be all 3 back in the beta days.

Originally Posted by jahes64

I really think we should have maximum number of at least black knights and necromancers, female vampires should be replaced with ancient ones and normal vampires should be added too.

This would sure make it easier, but it is not necessary. If you read the previous threads in this topic, you'll see that I thought it a neat idea to let only Daert play Female Vampires early. It gives new players a chance to play a new Undead unit (just like Neoline and Bagyr get to use some of their new units).

You can actually defeat everything with just two regular Vampires (I did this with the original game on Impossible quite a few times - read the impossible no loss thread) through the first Whitehill stack (this also includes all the basement stacks).

One Ancient Vampire will make the whole play through Whitehill way too easy.

So I went with Female Vampires since they are not as good as regular Vampires and it gives you a chance to try them out at the beginning of the game.

Originally Posted by jahes64

With orcs it was very easy distracting everyone with 2 totems every round and dealing damage at the same time with trap, catapults and hyena riders

And with demoness it was easy as well. I could throw two powerful fireballs at ranged units, hit them with fire arrows spell and then teleport demon to enemy side so he can hit other weak melee troops while i bring a weak ranged unit nearby and hit them with blood priestess in round 1 and after that i had nothing to worry about.

I think we shouldn't rely solely on the spell book and like other races we should get a decent army, strong enough to make us able to defeat map guardian of Monteville, so we can get there and refill our army.

You're missing the whole point of playing the mage class! If you use your army to defeat the enemy stacks, then you're playing just like a Warrior.

So I think in the end, your play style is not suited for the mage class. That is where all the trouble lies.

Originally Posted by jahes64

With demoness we can go to Atrixus and get strong troops and refill our army right away.

And with orcs you can go Tristrem from catacombs, then exist (since you can't avoid the nearby troops), go to the port and take a ship to there and get your army filled.

But with undead we can't refill our army before we defeat that guardian.

You can't return to any of the starting locations until you defeat one of the Whitehill stacks and return to the Shelter. After this, any class can go get Demons, etc. sold in Atrixus. You can even kite your way all the way to Helvetia (or whatever it's called) and get Archdemons!

I can see that you have a certain style of play that you seem a bit inflexible on and so that is preventing you from doing no loss Daert with my mod on Normal (mind you I designed this for no loss on Impossible).

As such there is really no need for any changes and so I hope you rethink your play style for a mage as no loss on normal should be really easy with this mod.

Good luck!

/C\/C\

[jahes64]

I sent you a PM.

[jahes64]

Hey MattCaspermeyer, pls answer PM.

PS: Hopefully, you have subscribed to this topic and get a notification for this post.

[ryllen]

Hi @MattCaspermeyer! Thanks for the mod, it makes the game more fun for these two classes!
I tried to make some small changes to the hero.txt (want to give Bagyr slow and haste spell) in your mod but there were nothing changed in the game after the edit. May i ask for your help to teach me how to do the edit? thanks a lot!

[MattCaspermeyer]

By the way, I started a new forum thread that talks about how to mod the game without the editor here:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=229817

Feel free to post questions there as it is a bit complicated...

Matt