Il-2 MODs

[JG53Harti]

I do not say it very often, but in this point Copperhead is right

[Furio]

Maybe the question was already posed. If so, excuse me, please.
Oleg is the owner of the game. He is contrary to hacking and mods. So, hacking and mods are an abuse, and it doesn’t matter if they are good or bad, if they IMPROVE or not the game. Can anyone tell me where and how my reasoning is wrong?

[FA_Retro-Burn]

At any rate, it does show how deep in details the sim community is. No matter how it pans out, if the developers take away the vast knowledge base of its members then you will have simulations that will always "up the bar".

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

I'm not saying that the mods are done poorly, some might be quite good. I am saying that when you have a sim with a large on-line following. People need to show some respect for the community at large. They need to sacrifice what could be, so that all will have faith that the sim is secure, and fair to one and all. To burden 1C with the extra work, only effect's the lot of us, with longer wait time for what we want, 4.09, and SOW

I disagree.. I agree in principle.. but considering that :

There has been a small group of people that anyone who has been around here for any length of time knows about, who have had the ability to hack the sim and kept it to themselves.. as far back as 3 or 4 years ago.

Oleg said that he wasn't going to be doing more work on this sim after 4.09.. that all his resources would be dedicated to SoW.

and the real kicker....

Like or not, the sim has been hacked... to act like it hasn't been instead of dealing with that fact is just plain stupid. To vilify those who have decided to use the mods that are now out there who have no intention of cheating, or to criminalize those who have taken advantage of the fact that the sim has been cracked and have come up with some really good things... some of which were asked for since the sim's innception (This is NOT to fault Oleg or 1C in anyway for not including some of these things into the sim at all, just a statement of the facts.) is wrong. More wrong than using the mods.... To DENY that some of those mods are very well done, (that Italy Africa Greece map is a thing of beauty... ) or to keep harping on the widespread cheating that we all, myself included initially. thought would come from the hacking of the sim, that never came to pass is equally stupid, narrow minded and again... just plain wrong.

Now I cant deny that the initial hack was wrong.. and I sat on the fence with these mods for quite some time because I wanted to see for myself how things went. If the widespread cheating scenario we all feared had come to pass I would not have touched them... but my position on this has always been the same since this all started except that I have come to realize, and I cant help but think it is either a testament to this community, Oleg & 1C's creation or a combination of the two, because he did raise the standards to a new height that cheating and modding are not the same. In spite of what I have seen in other sims and heard of in other online venues (Simming is the only thing I really do like this... ), this time around the cheats have not taken over. I have yet to be on a server where I questioned my getting shot down or could attribute that to anything but either a better pilot or me making the last mistake.

Originally Posted by 311thCopperhead

Hmmmm what do i think about the Mods.
I think they suck. 1/2 @ss done trash by ppl who have next to zero idea what thier doing. the majority of wich are passing out cheat files in private amongst themselvs like thier halloween candy. All under the guise of "we're making the sim better". then they're asking for "DONATIONS" to thier web site.
they are taking a profit off of other peoples hard work. thier bleeding the life blood right out of the sim while at the same time draining Olegs pockets dry. and most of the garbage they've put out would never meet Olegs high standerds.
Not to mention they have even further devided a comunity that was already splinterd. If you choose to fly a CLEAN install online...good luck finding a server or a coop in with to do it. You can literally count on one hand the servers that specifiy they are mod free on one hand. and lets face it. not all of them are tha golden angels they claim to be. there are a great many of the mod users who are just out for the exploits and mod files so they can pad thier kill counts and thier egos.
CFS2 died becuse of BS like this in case anyone cares to remember. (not the only reason i know, but it was the contributing factor in it's down fall.)

As of tonight however it seems that thier web site is down. one can only wonder if it's due to thier web host shuting them down for failure of payment for the monster fees they have accumulated or if Oleg finally has had enough and had them shut down due to infringment. Whatever the case may be....good ridance. don't let the door hit ya in the @ss on the way out.
that's what i think about em. While ican't say that over at the UBIzoo anymore with out being threatend witha perma-ban...i can sure as heck say it here.
as for what Oleg thinks about it....was posted on another thread here.

Originally Posted by JG53Harti

I do not say it very often, but in this point Copperhead is right

BULL!!!!

Copperhead that is why you got banned from UBI. That attitude and that caustic, demeaning insulting brush that you so liberally want to paint anyone who has found some enhancement to the sim in the mods.

You can think what you want about the mods, but you go around on your high horse slinging $hit in peoples faces and insulting them like you are some kind of pillar of moral authority. You are talking out of your behind. You don't know what you are talking about. Some of those mods ARE good. VERY GOOD. This community gets splintered more by the vitriolic pap that you are spouting than by mods. There is a reason why unmodded servers are getting harder to find. And it isn't because the entire Hyperlobby community is clueless, or cheaters, or hack kiddies or liars or thieves or skill less. It is because some of thos e maps are fantastic... and if you take out the new planes for the most part most of the mods are effects, or feature enhancements. The 6DoF mod alone is a thing of beauty.. I can now hunker down on my gunsight in my razor back jug instead of having to hit SHIFT+F1. What few graphic glitches there are pale by comparison to the stability and quality of the mod. That is a fact. You don't know what you are talking about man. Being able to zoom in and out on my map? Great!! Having bi directional radiator controls now? FANTASTIC!! Being able to set my speedbar to default to MPH... or KIAS... or whatever i want is great. Being able to customize my default skins so now when I fly over Ramitelli airbase... oh.. did I say Ramitelli airbase...? I see dozens of redtail aircraft parked on the side.. or being able to customize me splash screen.. or put Mamabear's picture in my P-51 cockpit.. yeah.. it is good. Sure there are some mods out there that are not well done.

Yes there are cheaters.... but for the most part they are few and far between, and thier presence does not in my opinion warrant me disrespecting and insulting guys I have known for the past 5-7 years, because they use mods. Sorry that dog just don't hunt...

Cheating and modding are two different things man. You canh keep your head in the sand or up your backside or wherever you want to keep it.. but you need to stop with the hostile rhetoric and you need to look at the people who are using these mods and aske yourself if you think they have no character.

[csThor]

Still AAA has two legacies it can't ever shirk:

1.) The file rotection was hacked and that was what made all this stuff possible. This is the first reason why I refuse to install anything from that site or similar sites.
2.) There were some very nasty comments towards Oleg and people like me (who have no use for the hacks/mods) made b people who are very active at AAA. Most of these were blatant self-promotion or downright belittling comments about the abilities of Maddox Games. This did not sit well with me and I spoke up against such behavior. The result was a number of insults against my person which did not help to soothe the waves. This - and especially this - is the prime reason why I will never register at AAA even if some comments really made my vitriol levels spike and tempted me to give these people an answer they deserved. Had it not been for that arrogance and rude attitude this process would have been a lot less "explosive".

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by csThor

Still AAA has two legacies it can't ever shirk:

1.) The file rotection was hacked and that was what made all this stuff possible. This is the first reason why I refuse to install anything from that site or similar sites.
2.) There were some very nasty comments towards Oleg and people like me (who have no use for the hacks/mods) made b people who are very active at AAA. Most of these were blatant self-promotion or downright belittling comments about the abilities of Maddox Games. This did not sit well with me and I spoke up against such behavior. The result was a number of insults against my person which did not help to soothe the waves. This - and especially this - is the prime reason why I will never register at AAA even if some comments really made my vitriol levels spike and tempted me to give these people an answer they deserved. Had it not been for that arrogance and rude attitude this process would have been a lot less "explosive".

Thor I understand where you are coming from in the first part... I disagree... but I do understand.. it's like not buying a real Christmas tree to help the environment. The tree has been cut. It would have been cut whether or not you bought it... As for the hostility part... well while that it not cool... that was a two way street. Copperhead's post is a rather mild indication of some of the stuff that was coming from the antio mod camp... so that cuts both ways. There was enough venom to go around on all sides. I caught it too... form both sides.

[csThor]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Thor I understand where you are coming from in the first part... I disagree... but I do understand.. it's like not buying a real Christmas tree to help the environment. The tree has been cut. It would have been cut whether or not you bought it...

Neg, sorry, but that comparison doesn't work. I have been burned by these so-called "improvements" twice in my gaming life and these experiences (along with reading Il-2 message boars for years) have formed my opinion on user mods in combat flight simulations in general (= people aren't mature enough to be given access to any core data and mods tend to be prybars which split communities). That the file protection was hacked (an individual act which I consider disrespectful to the extreme) just made my resolve not to use any mods even harder.

Originally Posted by Bearcat

As for the hostility part... well while that it not cool... that was a two way street. Copperhead's post is a rather mild indication of some of the stuff that was coming from the antio mod camp... so that cuts both ways. There was enough venom to go around on all sides. I caught it too... form both sides.

I do not agree with everything Copperhead posted and I don't think his tone is helpful. However the provocations were started by a few selected mod-proponents - at least as far as I know - and I am convinced they have been started precisely for that effect - to undermine the "reputation" of people opposing the mods by luring them into posting inflammable comments. I do not know why these people took that road or what exactly they hoped to achieve, but I believe that these few individuals have made the rift between pro- and anti-mod much wider and deeper than it would have been without them.

[311thCopperhead]

Originally Posted by csThor

Neg, sorry, but that comparison doesn't work. I have been burned by these so-called "improvements" twice in my gaming life and these experiences (along with reading Il-2 message boars for years) have formed my opinion on user mods in combat flight simulations in general (= people aren't mature enough to be given access to any core data and mods tend to be prybars which split communities). That the file protection was hacked (an individual act which I consider disrespectful to the extreme) just made my resolve not to use any mods even harder.




I do not agree with everything Copperhead posted and I don't think his tone is helpful. However the provocations were started by a few selected mod-proponents - at least as far as I know - and I am convinced they have been started precisely for that effect - to undermine the "reputation" of people opposing the mods by luring them into posting inflammable comments. I do not know why these people took that road or what exactly they hoped to achieve, but I believe that these few individuals have made the rift between pro- and anti-mod much wider and deeper than it would have been without them.

Yup. and i swallowed, hook, line, sinker, rod, reel, and fishermans arm.
Sigh.

[MD_Wild_Weasel]

looks like i opened up a can of worms here. Lads you really should open the curtains and look outside, you might find it aint all that bad.

quick note to oleg.. Thanks again man, brilliant peice of art work IL2.. Cheers .And if i show any disrespect to you or the other programmers for using mods, then i appologise. But the mods are very well executed and do do justice to il2.. GOOD luck with BOB, im already poised with my wallet

Cheers MD_Wild_Weasel (Group Captain)
http://www.mightydemons.com/hq/index.php

[311thCopperhead]

Originally Posted by csThor

Still AAA has two legacies it can't ever shirk:

1.) The file rotection was hacked and that was what made all this stuff possible. This is the first reason why I refuse to install anything from that site or similar sites.
2.) There were some very nasty comments towards Oleg and people like me (who have no use for the hacks/mods) made b people who are very active at AAA. Most of these were blatant self-promotion or downright belittling comments about the abilities of Maddox Games. This did not sit well with me and I spoke up against such behavior. The result was a number of insults against my person which did not help to soothe the waves. This - and especially this - is the prime reason why I will never register at AAA even if some comments really made my vitriol levels spike and tempted me to give these people an answer they deserved. Had it not been for that arrogance and rude attitude this process would have been a lot less "explosive".

Exactly. Which is why one reason why i'm not holding my tounge on this. That's gotten me into some troubles in the past...but unlike Thor...i don't ALWAYS choose my words carfully and write with such eloquence. even though i have the ability to do so. forwhatever reason what come out is what comes out and....well there you have it.

another yet rare occation where Thor and i are in agreement. The back handed talk about Oleg and 1c kinda ticked me off as well.
I'm not saying...i'm just saying....Those people (AAA) are putting a strangle hold on the sim that will last long after SoW has released. For me personally, when everyone else has forgoten about IL-2...i had planed to still be playing it. The idea of yet amother Battle of Britain sim has never really excited me personaly. While i'm sure i'll be standing at game stop, cash in hand on realease day...i was counting on il-2 to still be useull for me untill we get SoW to the Pacific or Korea. Sadly that's gone.