Mossie speed

[Bobb4]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

The semi-mythical speed advantage of the Mosquito is one of those stories that is half fact half fiction.

Early Mosquitoes were actually a touch SLOWER than the BF109 and Fw190 day fighters however they bombed at high altitude meaning by the time the Germans got up there the Mosquito had already shot through and the 109/190s did not have a sufficient speed advantage to catch up.
Be careful not to put too much credence in the "myths" that have arisen about WWII.

Original estimates were that, with twice the power of a Spitfire and twice the wetted area and over twice the weight, the Mosquito would still be 20mph (32km/h) faster than the Spitfire. The Air Ministry was very sceptical. When the prototype was officially tested at Boscombe Down in February 1941 they were proved wrong and it exceeded this estimate by achieving a top speed of 392mph (631km/h)

The early FW190 A3 had a top speed of 636Kph So one can assume the later FW190's were faster.
I agree that height and speed made them harder to catch with the early Fw having a ceilng of only 12000m it would be hard to take down a mossie but not impossible

The recon version of the Mossie - DH MOSQUITO PR.34

maximum speed: 685 KPH (425 MPH / 370 KT)
service ceiling: 13,100 meters (43,000 feet)
range: 5,375 kilometers.
While all stats are subjective war time propaganda most probably made the mossie a myth it unfortuantely was more than capable of living up to.
The kill quoted earlier in this thread is of a mossie out of its element, flying low, someting it was not really meant to do???? I could be wrong on that but I always assumed a mossie was a high altitude fighter/bomber

http://www.dhmosquito.com/

[brando]

Originally Posted by Bobb4

The kill quoted earlier in this thread is of a mossie out of its element, flying low, someting it was not really meant to do???? I could be wrong on that but I always assumed a mossie was a high altitude fighter/bomber

http://www.dhmosquito.com/

It's worth noting another factor here, I think, and that is regarding so-called 'hedge-hopping attacks' over land. The Mossie was of course a side-by-side two-seater, and the extra pair of eyes must have been a vital factor in a plane flying at high speed whilst hugging the terrain. This kind of attack avoids radar, gives flak-gunners the briefest opportunity to range in, and also makes the aircraft hard to detect and pursue by fighters. Having a buddy next to you must make detection of obstacles, adjustments of heading and arrival on target and so on an easier task for the pilot to accomplish.

One might even suggest that a successful return, whilst desirable, is not the most important factor to the mission-planners. If one or several aircraft making this kind of approach can nail the target and cause great devastation then the mission is successful. No amount of kills by the defence forces after the event can change that.

Just my 2d-worth

Brando

[mazex]

Here's a story I found when doing a skin for one of the BOAC operated civilian Mossies that flew secret night time missions from Scotland to Sweden (they had no guns so they where naturally lighter than the armed version):

"On the 18:th of July 1943, Mosquito G-AGGC after leaving the Swedish coast at 7.600 meters noticed condensation trails – one above and one behind the a/c, presumed to be from Focke-Wulf 190s. Rae, The pilot turned into the fighters and then dived in a spiral down to the sea level, leveled out and gave full throttle. Indicated airspeed was 570 Km/h and the course set for Leuchars. In the full moon the attacking fighters had no problem seeing the Mossie and the chase was on for half an hour without the attackers gaining on the Mosquito. The Germans gave up, probably because of fuel shortage. BOAC's instruction was that if an aircraft was attacked over the eastern part of Skagerak, the pilot was to turn back because of the risk of fuel starvation if entangled in a long chase. However, this time Gilbert Rae decided to continue the flight because he had a Danish officer on board who had just escaped the Gestapo."

It seems they had real problems shaking those 190:s - and it's interesting that they used 190:s as night fighters. Maybe to catch Mossies?

/Mazex

[Thunderbolt56]

The Mossie modeled in IL2 is the earlier version that doesn't produce the horsepower nor speed of the later models. It is truly competitive in pre-1942 scenarios, but after that it's easily outclassed.

[Thunderbolt_Br]

Originally Posted by Thunderbolt56

The Mossie modeled in IL2 is the earlier version that doesn't produce the horsepower nor speed of the later models. It is truly competitive in pre-1942 scenarios, but after that it's easily outclassed.

I agree

As I like to built historic mission to play with my friends, and I like fly Mosquistos, only in a Burma scenario Mossie became a pleaseant option


Thanks pals

[Al Schlageter]

Originally Posted by Bobb4

The kill quoted earlier in this thread is of a mossie out of its element, flying low, someting it was not really meant to do???? I could be wrong on that but I always assumed a mossie was a high altitude fighter/bomber.

Early Mossies used single stage two speed superchargers (Merlin 20 series) which hurt its performance at altitude just like the Allison V-1710 hurt at altitude.

Get hold of the Osprey books on the Mossie.

[*Buzzsaw*]

Salute

As has been mentioned, for some reason Oleg chose to model a 1942 version of the Mosquito FB.

Later versions were much faster.

Below is a link to a test of a 1943 Nightfighter version, equipped with 1943 version Merlin 61 engines, operating at only +15 boost, it has a top speed of 408 mph, quite a bit faster than the game's version.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...uito/mp469.pdf

Later models which used 150 octane and which had boost raised to +25 had a top speed a little above 426 mph.

The Mosquito outperformed any other twin engined prop driven nightfighter or nightbomber.

[Al Schlageter]

Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*

Below is a link to a test of a 1943 Nightfighter version, equipped with 1943 version Merlin 61 engines, operating at only +15 boost, it has a top speed of 408 mph, quite a bit faster than the game's version.

NF.XV: A high-altitude night fighter with a pressurized cabin, extended wingtips, two-stage Merlin engines, lightened airframe, and armament consisting of four 7.7 millimeter Browning machine guns in a ventral pack. Only five built, one being a rebuild of an undesignated prototype used to evaluate a pressure cabin, the other four being rebuilds of NF.IIs.

If one wants to read some reports other than biased selective ones:
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o.../mosquito.html

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by Al Schlageter

NF.XV: A high-altitude night fighter with a pressurized cabin, extended wingtips, two-stage Merlin engines, lightened airframe, and armament consisting of four 7.7 millimeter Browning machine guns in a ventral pack. Only five built, one being a rebuild of an undesignated prototype used to evaluate a pressure cabin, the other four being rebuilds of NF.IIs.

I see, you want to exclude all rare versions of British aircraft, but its ok to have 109K4 -C3 which only saw service in single Staffel, (approx. 9 aircraft) as experimental aircraft. Or TA-152H, or any number of other German aircraft which are in the game which are very rare or total fantasies. Double standards anyone?

Here's a less rare Mk IX, another 1943 version. Top speed 405 mph.



And the NF Mk 30, equipped with the Merlin 72 at only +18 boost, has a top speed of 397 mph as you can see from table below:



With engines boosted to +21, and 350 + more horsepower, it could achieve 426 mph, as I mentioned above.

Charts showing engine horsepower at +18 and +21:



Either of these aircraft is faster than the version we have in the game.

Amazing how German fanatics insist on one standard for their 'uber' planes, but another for Allied aircraft.

By the way, all these charts ARE from Mike William's WWII Performance. I would suggest anyone who is interested go there:

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o.../mosquito.html

[robtek]

@ buzzsaw

I, for my part find it really amazing how poor your position must seem to you to introduce such polemic sentences in this, until then, fairly objektive thread:

Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*

.......I see, you want to exclude all rare versions of British aircraft, but its ok to have 109K4 -C3 which only saw service in single Staffel, (approx. 9 aircraft) as experimental aircraft. Or TA-152H, or any number of other German aircraft which are in the game which are very rare or total fantasies. Double standards anyone?.......

.....
Amazing how German fanatics insist on one standard for their 'uber' planes, but another for Allied aircraft.
......